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    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

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    Viktor
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    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Viktor on Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:09 pm

    Based on what is this thing possible?

    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    19:5915/04/2010
    Russia could build a satellite for the detection and tracking of submarines from space, a defense industry spokesman said on Thursday.
    Vladimir Boldyrev, of the Kosmonit science and technology center, said the group had developed a space satellite module that could carry out remote sensing of the sea and "detect submerged submarines."
    "Hopefully, it will be tested in space as early as 2011," he said, adding that work on the module started over a decade ago.
    He offered no indication as to when the new satellite would enter service with the Russian Armed Forces.
    Boldyrev added that the dual-use module would be used for both defense and civilian purposes, in particular, providing meteorological data.
    MOSCOW, April 15 (RIA Novosti)

    http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100415/158597419.html

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    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite!

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:21 am

    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    RIA Novosti

    15/04/201019:59

    MOSCOW, April 15 (RIA Novosti) - Russia could build a satellite for the detection and tracking of submarines from space, a defense industry spokesman said on Thursday.

    Vladimir Boldyrev, of the Kosmonit science and technology center, said the group had developed a space satellite module that could carry out remote sensing of the sea and "detect submerged submarines."

    "Hopefully, it will be tested in space as early as 2011," he said, adding that work on the module started over a decade ago.

    He offered no indication as to when the new satellite would enter service with the Russian Armed Forces.

    Boldyrev added that the dual-use module would be used for both defense and civilian purposes, in particular, providing meteorological data.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100415-rianovosti01.htm

    Farhad Gulemov
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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Farhad Gulemov on Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:19 am

    I am not sure about this, but I am pretty confident that what we are talking about here is a technology which uses radar technology to map the surface of the ocean/sea water and which can detect a slight buldge created on the water surface by a submarine. This is not a new idea, I remember rumors about the Soviet Union already having that kind of capabilities in the late 1980s early 1990s. With this stuff you never know. Russian engineers are brilliant and they often succeed in actually implementing technologies which have been evaluated and rejected in the West. The use of supercavitation on the Shkvall torpedo or forward swep wings (as on the SU-47) are examples of that.

    Other options would be remote wake-detection. Temperature, salinity and magnetism are, as far as I know, not an option.

    HTH

    GarryB
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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:31 am

    A submerged submarine moving through the water even at low speed stirs up water which can be detected on the surface as a wake of mixed temperature air.

    I too have read about over the horizon radar that can detect small rises in sea height created from a passing submarine but I don't know how reliable that would be in anything but calm sea.

    There is also the blue green laser technology that can see hundreds of metres down into sea water.

    Considering most military subs can't submerge more than 400-500m and most rather less then this will be adequate for most cases.

    It seems strange to think that most big subs can't submerge more than 4-5 times their own length without being crushed... it would be like a 747 not being able to fly more than 500m or so in the air.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Farhad Gulemov on Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:11 pm

    Farhad Gulemov wrote:I am not sure about this, but I am pretty confident that what we are talking about here is a technology which uses radar technology to map the surface of the ocean/sea water and which can detect a slight buldge created on the water surface by a submarine.

    Just to clarify: I was referring to satellite-born radars. I have never heard of an OTH-B being able to do that (my understanding, which might be mistaken, is that their frequency would be too low for this task).

    But then - there are so many things which I have not heard off Embarassed that I would not dismiss it either Wink

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:33 am

    It is my understanding that OTH-B or Over the Horizon Back scatter radars can detect the rise in sea level generated by a submarine passing through the water.

    I would think that thermal sensors that detect the cooler water churned up by the passage of a submerged sub, or more sophisticated a blue green Lidar that can detect objects hundreds of metres below the sea surface are the most likely options.

    Stealthflanker
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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Stealthflanker on Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:17 am

    I'm also curious with this...

    whether they use IR Imaging or a RADAR System

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:58 am

    The device is either a very accurate synthetic aperture radar that can detect the small rise in sea levels of a sub passing underwater, which would allow it to detect the presence but not type of sub, or an IR sensor to sense the cooler water churned up by a passing sub creating a wake of mixed temp water or it could be a blue green laser radar or Lidar that can see several hundred metres under water.

    Subs, depending on their type very rarely communicate with home base. SSBNs will sit near the surface waiting for launch orders, but will not transmit themselves. SSNs might transmit occasionally but for most of their time they are hunting and listening themselves.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  brudawson on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:15 am

    Its a great idea. I think its difficult but not impossible. B'cos in sea water we use the sonar technology and in air we use radar system. Satellites used the infrared radiation. And detecting submarines in sea through satellite its interesting. After build submarine-detecting satellite Russian Navy is in great power.

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:The device is either a very accurate synthetic aperture radar that can detect the small rise in sea levels of a sub passing underwater, which would allow it to detect the presence but not type of sub, or an IR sensor to sense the cooler water churned up by a passing sub creating a wake of mixed temp water or it could be a blue green laser radar or Lidar that can see several hundred metres under water.

    Subs, depending on their type very rarely communicate with home base. SSBNs will sit near the surface waiting for launch orders, but will not transmit themselves. SSNs might transmit occasionally but for most of their time they are hunting and listening themselves.

    The device is an ELINT, electronic signals satellite. It picks up the radio and microwave band emissions from ships and submarines then pinpointing the location.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Firebird on Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:21 pm

    This is significant. But I wonder, if subs become more detectable, how should they be used in the future? Build smaller ones? Stealthier ones? Hidden ones? Or rely on them less? Both in the nuclear and non-nuclear theatre.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:14 am

    In this case make them more autonomous with less need to keep in communications and therefore give away their position less often.

    max steel
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    Russia To Build Submarine-Detecting Satellite

    Post  max steel on Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:42 pm

    Russia To Build Submarine-Detecting Satellite dunno

    Russia could build a satellite for the detection and tracking of submarines from space, a defense industry spokesman said on Thursday.

    Vladimir Boldyrev, of the Kosmonit science and technology center, said the group had developed a space satellite module that could carry out remote sensing of the sea and "detect submerged submarines."

    "Hopefully, it will be tested in space as early as 2011," he said, adding that work on the module started over a decade ago.

    He offered no indication as to when the new satellite would enter service with the Russian Armed Forces.

    Boldyrev added that the dual-use module would be used for both defense and civilian purposes, in particular, providing meteorological data.


    2010 ARTICLE : http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russia_To_Build_Submarine_Detecting_Satellite_999.html

    Viktor
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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Viktor on Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:12 am

    New Kanopus-ST satellite deployed for tracking enemy subs

    LINK

    In April 2010, to the surprise of the observers, a representative of NTTs Kosmonit Vladimir Boldyrev told the official RIA Novosti news agency that instruments on the Kanopus-ST satellite would be able to detect submerged submarines, giving the Russian Ministry of Defense a new anti-submarine system. According to Boldyrev, the satellite could still be useful for civilian remote-sensing and meteorological research in addition to its military tasks.

    Although the previously quoted resolution of instruments onboard Kanopus-ST seems to be too low to discern submarines or their wake, the satellite could be a precursor for more advanced high-resolution systems.

    The alleged anti-submarine capability apparently led to the classification of the Kanopus-ST as a military payload. Further public information on the status of the project and its instruments was largely restricted.



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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:22 pm

    Here it described it as civilian Earth Observation satellite

    http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/kanopus-st.htm

    and the 2nd satellite that accompany it KYuA 1 as radar calibration sphere

    http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/kyua-1.htm



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    Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Rmf on Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:22 am

    too high orbit.... but maybe some dual use tehnology and military modification is planned.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:32 am

    Soyuz-2-1v launches Kanopus-ST

    On December 5, 2015, the Russian military launched an experimental satellite reportedly to test capability for tracking enemy submarines. The Kanopus-ST satellite rode into orbit on the second Soyuz-2-1v rocket, following the successful inaugural launch of that booster at the end of 2013.


    History of Kanopus-ST project


    By the mid-1980s, experiments conducted from aircraft proved that microwave radiation can be used to study properties of water in the atmosphere and in the oceans. Such important parameters as level of salinity and temperature of the sea surface could be determined by bouncing ultra-high-frequency waves, or UHFs, from the surface of water with the help of instruments known as radiometers. (764) In theory, the penetrating properties of radio waves could also be used to bounce signals off underwater objects, such as submarines. Not surprisingly, the field attracted the attention of the military.

    In 1990, a group of Soviet engineers led by Grigory Chernyavsky at the nation's Academy of Sciences began researching the use of microwaves for monitoring oceans from space. The team claimed the development of the first "probing microwave scanner," MTV3A, which was launched on Dec. 10, 2001, onboard the Meteor-3M-1 satellite. The instrument was designed to measure crucial weather parameters, such as water content in the clouds, temperature and humidity in the atmosphere, radiation levels and wind speeds.

    A more advanced UHF radiometer designated MTV3A-OK was developed for the Ukrainian Sich-1M satellite, which was launched on Dec. 24, 2004. The instrument had a wider UHF range and, in addition, featured optical, ultraviolet and infrared sensors.

    The third incarnation of the Russian UHF radiometer became a part of the multi-spectral payload complex designated BIK-GYa-1. The multi-spectral suit of instruments was designed to monitor cloud cover and its water content, atmospheric humidity and temperature at different altitudes, amounts of rainfall, ocean surface temperature, including ice and snow condition, wind speed at ocean surface and dynamics of oceanic currents. Overland, the same sensors would be able to check on the condition of foliage, soil temperature and humidity and detect forest fires. (765)

    The payload was miniaturized to 160 kilograms to fit into a low-cost micro-satellite, such as the Vulkan (volcano) platform developed at the turn of the 21st century at the Moscow-based VNIIEM institute. The same company also built Meteor and Kanopus satellites.

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/kanopus-st.html


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    max steel
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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  max steel on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:00 am

    Well it's more of an impossible dream to track submarines via sats. I posted an article.from atimes showing US is making satellites to track subs and then GarryB explained how difficult it is.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  George1 on Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:01 pm

    The satellite was destroyed

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1612690.html


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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  kvs on Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:13 pm

    George1 wrote:The satellite was destroyed

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1612690.html

    NATO obviously has assets in Russia that can be used to sabotage critical systems. That is what a good 15 years of rot
    will get you, people selling their mothers for a dollar. This incident offers evidence as to why NATO leaders, i.e. the US,
    are so confident about winning a nuclear war against Russia. They likely have all the key command and control systems
    thoroughly compromised both technologically and in terms of meat puppets.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:25 pm

    kvs wrote:
    George1 wrote:The satellite was destroyed

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1612690.html

    NATO obviously has assets in Russia that can be used to sabotage critical systems.   That is what a good 15 years of rot
    will get you, people selling their mothers for a dollar.   This incident offers evidence as to why NATO leaders, i.e. the US,
    are so confident about winning a nuclear war against Russia.   They likely have all the key command and control systems
    thoroughly compromised both technologically and in terms of meat puppets.  
    You are over thinking this.  Roscosmos has a relatively high failure rate for whatever reasons in launching of sats for themselves. But no other industry in Russia has a problem it seems (aerospace works fine). Only Roscosmos and using of old systems. The one satellite works fine. If sabotage was inbolved both would have failed.  I made the comment too and was corrected about the people who run the communication structures and nuclear weapons are not typical people and are far more watched but also far more patriotic.

    Angara will fix these issues hopefully. Mistakes do happen. Look at all the major failures of Americas launch systems and even recent ones.  The satellite separated but not properly and now the satellite is pooched. Means that another will be built as these sats are insured.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:53 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/science/841936

    Reason is one of the locks malfunctioned. Although, Roscosmos has a history of odd malfunctions amd idiotic mistakes. So it cannot be ruled out of sabotage.  There needs to be hightened security at the facilities and a forever watching eye on the workers.  Maybe more automation as well to be introduced.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  kvs on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:40 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://tass.ru/en/science/841936

    Reason is one of the locks malfunctioned. Although, Roscosmos has a history of odd malfunctions amd idiotic mistakes. So it cannot be ruled out of sabotage.  There needs to be hightened security at the facilities and a forever watching eye on the workers.  Maybe more automation as well to be introduced.

    I agree that it is premature to conclude that it was sabotage. But these sorts of "accidents" where some rag is left in the wrong place, or some other
    little detail that is 100% human related fails just smell so bad. It's as if there are retards working these jobs. I doubt that they are retards and sellouts
    is much more likely.

    America can basically buy any weak minded human on the planet. Promising them millions of dollars and the good life the US paradise is extremely
    effective.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:45 pm

    I do not doubt human stupidity. For instance, Russias largest shipyard had an explosion today, killing 1 person and injuring 6 others due to welding and painting at same time...... who does this? Retards. And so it cost a person their life, and risking others, as well as damage to the facility.

    I think it is a mixture of poor business practice, lack of proper screening employees, maybe managements decisions, and poor pay so quality of workers drop.  I figure its food for thought.

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    Re: Russia to build submarine-detecting satellite

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:http://tass.ru/en/science/841936

    Reason is one of the locks malfunctioned. Although, Roscosmos has a history of odd malfunctions amd idiotic mistakes. So it cannot be ruled out of sabotage.  There needs to be hightened security at the facilities and a forever watching eye on the workers.  Maybe more automation as well to be introduced.

    Which is completely retarded.
    Someone needs to be fired over this.  No

    About the Sabotage conspiracies.. is not impossible..
    and is really worry how Russian satellites launched from Russia have to fly over Alaska ,
    which could make them an easy target of their missiles or lazers or rail guns.

    Whatever it happened.. Russia really needs to take more seriously space and cut budget somewhere else ie.. like Sports.. or Pensions to old people and put it on space. And stop wasting
    money is useless things , like financing world war 2 veterans from other nations fought on the side of Russia.

    Looks for example at this TOTAL IDIOCY and total incompetence of Kremlin of how Russia was wasting its money..  No

    http://bnn-news.com/russia-plans-stop-paying-pensions-citizens-living-127100

    And that law was suggested in 2015.. when it should have been made since Russia Federation was created. So Far Russia have been a real charity financing Russians who leave latvia and Israel for more than a decade and does not contribute in any way to Russian economy. it needs to raise the age of pensioners and create new laws that regulate which pensioners
    can receive money.. ie.. People with crime or that have good properties and good jobs should not be paid a single ruble. And invest a lot in local Tourism.. It boils my blood to know 3 million Russian citizens every year goes to Turkey to spend their money there.. when they could be spending that money in Russia instead.

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