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    Naval Air Defence systems

    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:59 am

    GarryB wrote:Not totally clear but it seems from the article that there will be two versions... one for upgrading existing ships and one for new designs.

    I would expect the model for new designs is a more stealthy design perhaps?
    Perhaps, as it is with the AK-630.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:02 pm

    Palma testing:

    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat May 23, 2015 4:11 am

    Here is another air defense system called Komar (from Ratep).


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    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:09 am

    Naval Pantsir-M

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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:56 am

    Nice.... and what a potent system... out to 20km range and down to 2m above the waves and 15,000m up for the missiles... that is a huge envelope of protection...
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    Post  TheArmenian on Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:44 am

    Model of the Naval Pantsir at The Naval Show in St. Petersburg.
    More photos coming up in the Navy Thread.

    Mods.
    In my opinion this thread should be merged with the other one. We have too many threads and it makes the forum less user friendly as members have to follow too many threads.

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    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:05 am

    Gibka with 9M120 Missile Family

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    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:14 pm

    Naval SAM launcher "Shtil-1" was successfully tested
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    Post  nastle77 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:59 am

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-11_Shtorm

    The 4K60/41K65 missiles are carried in pairs on rotating twin rail launchers and fly at between Mach 2 and 3. They are 6.1 m (20 ft) long, weigh 845 kg (1863 lb) each with an 80 kg (176 lb) warheads. The effective altitude is around 100–25000 m (328-82,000 ft) and the earlier missiles have an engagement range of 3–30 km (2–19 miles) while the 41K65 extends the maximum range to 55 km (34 mi). Guidance is via radio command with terminal semi-active radar homing (SARH).

    this is a dual role weapon , so I'm assuming in the anti-ship role too its range of the 41K65 is 55 km ? not just in the the SAM role ?
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:42 am

    Most heavy SAMs have an ground to ground capability... the Shtil is known to have an anti surface capacity too.

    Range is generally limited to line of sight so the target cannot be below the horizon... and must be visible to the launch vessels sensors.
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    Post  nastle77 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:Most heavy SAMs have an ground to ground capability... the Shtil is known to have an anti surface capacity too.

    Range is generally limited to line of sight so the target cannot be below the horizon... and must be visible to the launch vessels sensors.
    would be interesting to see if they were nuke tipped
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:Most heavy SAMs have an ground to ground capability... the Shtil is known to have an anti surface capacity too.

    Range is generally limited to line of sight so the target cannot be below the horizon... and must be visible to the launch vessels sensors.

    Which begs the question, when the VKS inducts the S-500 in to service, will NATO scream bloody murder claiming the S-500s existence is a violation of the INF Treaty, and demand it be taken out of service? As you already know, given the opportunity, NATO will grasp more straws then the ending scene in the Wizard of Oz movie:

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    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:36 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Which begs the question, when the VKS inducts the S-500 in to service, will NATO scream bloody murder claiming the S-500s existence is a violation of the INF Treaty, and demand it be taken out of service? As you already know, given the opportunity, NATO will grasp more straws then the ending scene in the Wizard of Oz movie:

    Extremely unlikely, The INF treaty restricts Ballistic and Cruise Missiles, it does not restrict AA missiles, unless the U.S desperately tries to claim that the S-500 missiles are cruise missiles.

    One could say that this can also be used to defend the U.S ABMs in Europe, but the problem for that is not the missile but it's launcher, which is the exact same as those used on ships, which is strictly against the INF treaty.
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    Post  max steel on Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:55 am

    S-500 falls under ABM Treaty which US scrapped.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:29 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Which begs the question, when the VKS inducts the S-500 in to service, will NATO scream bloody murder claiming the S-500s existence is a violation of the INF Treaty, and demand it be taken out of service? As you already know, given the opportunity, NATO will grasp more straws then the ending scene in the Wizard of Oz movie:

    Extremely unlikely, The INF treaty restricts Ballistic and Cruise Missiles, it does not restrict AA missiles, unless the U.S desperately tries to claim that the S-500 missiles are cruise missiles.

    One could say that this can also be used to defend the U.S ABMs in Europe, but the problem for that is not the missile but it's launcher, which is the exact same as those used on ships, which is strictly against the INF treaty.

    That's the point, they'll grasp any straw available to them...Long tubes with missile like objects contained within them is all the evidence they need... Rolling Eyes
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:40 am

    max steel wrote:S-500 falls under ABM Treaty which US scrapped.

    Let's put this in to perspective. NATO pulled out of the CFE Treaty long before Russia did, but it didn't stop them from reprimanding about the 'Russkie Threat' to Europe when Russia finally decided to abandon the now defunct treaty. I mean the same people claimed Russia was isolated when predominately only North America and Europe cut ties with Russia, while the overwhelming majority of Asia (with the exception being Japan), Africa, South America refused to follow NATO's lead on breaking diplomatic ties. That's the overwhelming majority of the worlds population, and I don't even think America + Canada + Japan + E.U. makes even 1 billion people...something like 10-20 million short of a billion people.  



    ...So repeat after me children "Treaties only apply to non-NATO members"... Razz
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:59 am

    Most of the large SAMs the Russian Navy used had warheads of 50-150kgs so they could easily have carried nuclear warheads... and in the ground role would be the only rational reason for using Nukes.

    Actually from memory I seem to recall mention that the BUK was particularly accurate in the ground to ground role.
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    Post  nastle77 on Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:00 am

    GarryB wrote:Most of the large SAMs the Russian Navy used had warheads of 50-150kgs so they could easily have carried nuclear warheads... and in the ground role would be the only rational reason for using Nukes.

    Actually from memory I seem to recall mention that the BUK was particularly accurate in the ground to ground role.

    In the ASUW role you mean by " ground role"?
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:33 am

    In the ASUW role you mean by " ground role"?

    Well technically it would be surface to surface.

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    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:09 pm

    Sorry to jump in, but i have been wondering what is the difference between the Kashtan and the Pantsir with respects to naval CIWS, and is the Pantsir going to replace the Kashtan, if so why, when a cheaper modernized version could do just the same?
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:08 pm

    Kashtan is Tunguska M1, but with 30mm gatling guns instead of twin barrel cannon and Kashtan-M is Pantsir but with 30mm gatlings instead of single barrel 30mm cannon.

    Kashtan has 8km range missiles and two 30mm gatling guns, Kashtan-M has 12k range missiles and longer barrel 30mm gatlings with 960m/s muzzle velocity and better range with improved sensors and drives for better aiming accuracy and faster aiming.

    Pantsir-S1 and Pantsir-SM have longer ranged missiles (20km and 40km range respectively) and offer better performance for vessels.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:48 pm

    GarryB wrote:Kashtan is Tunguska M1, but with 30mm gatling guns instead of twin barrel cannon and Kashtan-M is Pantsir but with 30mm gatlings instead of single barrel 30mm cannon.

    Kashtan has 8km range missiles and two 30mm gatling guns, Kashtan-M has 12k range missiles and longer barrel 30mm gatlings with 960m/s muzzle velocity and better range with improved sensors and drives for better aiming accuracy and faster aiming.

    Pantsir-S1 and Pantsir-SM have longer ranged missiles (20km and 40km range respectively) and offer better performance for vessels.

    and both Kashtan+Pantsir-M use same gattlings AO–18KD )

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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:39 pm

    Alright.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:08 pm

    and both Kashtan+Pantsir-M use same gattlings AO–18KD

    Are you sure?

    I thought the Kashtan used the original AO-18K, but the Kashtan-M and Palma used the longer barrel AO-18KD...

    Also as a correction, the Kashtan-M has 10km range missiles not 12km that are upgraded to allow day night all weather use.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    and both Kashtan+Pantsir-M use same gattlings AO–18KD

    Are you sure?

    I thought the Kashtan used the original AO-18K, but the Kashtan-M and Palma used the longer barrel AO-18KD...


    You´re right. I meant Kashtan M and Pantsir M apology


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