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    Tu-160 "White Swan"

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:03 pm

    We are seeing the aircraft now... it could have started testing 15 years ago for all we know...

    Unless they have developed a new more efficient supersonic shape I don't think they would change the shape of the nose to suit the radar... it is more likely it will be designed for aerodynamic and RCS features...
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:35 pm

    Bit more detail

    A highly modified commercial aircraft, called the Tu-214LMK, completed its first test flight after an upgrade in order to perform flight test of new avionics and sensors for Russian next-generation strategic bomber. Russian news media have reported that heavily modified Tu-214LMK (registration number 64507) aircraft completed its first test flight at the Gorbunov Kazan Aviation Plant on 29 December.

    According to the official PJSC Tupolev comment, “the purpose of the upgrade of the Tu-214LMK testbed is to create a flying laboratory for testing in-flight onboard equipment complexes of the Tu-160 and in the future – the PAK DA bombers”.

    The Tu-214LMK flying testbed has been retrofitted in order to perform flight-test the highly advanced integrated avionics developed for the upgraded and next-generation strategic bombers.

    Tu-214LMK’s modifications include installation of a Tu-160M2 radar (PAK DA radar in future) housed in the forward fuselage section of the nose of the plane. The Tu-214LMK testbed will reduce risk as well as future flight test hours by enabling extensive in-flight testing, evaluation and troubleshooting before much of the avionics were installed on the new bombers.

    The upgraded Tupolev Tu-160M2 strategic bombers will start arriving for Russia’s long-range aviation soon.

    Russia’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has ordered the first 10 Tu-160M2 strategic bombers from United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), in a deal worth RUB160 billion (USD2.7 billion dollars), the ministry said on 25 January 2018. The signing ceremony took place during a visit by President Vladimir Putin to the Gorbunov Kazan Aviation Plant, also attended by the head of UAC, Yuri Slyusar, and Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov.

    In the process of its upgrade, the bomber will get a principally new avionics suite and the onboard integrated data control system. The Tu-160M2 will also feature satellite navigation systems, the short-range radio-technical navigation systems, the air signal systems, the defensive aids suite, the electronic warfare complex and other promising systems.


    https://defence-blog.com/news/russia-launches-flying-testbed-for-strategic-bomber-upgrades.html
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:35 pm

    The yellow part seems to be made of composite while the white part should be made of stronger material. So they could be testing how it affects the radar.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:37 pm

    Isos wrote:The yellow part seems to be made of composite while the white part should be made of stronger material. So they could be testing how it affects the radar.
    Also small yellow dome under rear fuselage.
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    Post  Hole on Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:32 pm

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:07 am

    Actually I would suspect the yellow material is composite aircraft structure, while the white material is probably radar transparent dielectric material that does not interfere with radar waves.
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    Post  Singular_Transform on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:50 pm

    JohninMK wrote:


    Russia’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has ordered the first 10 Tu-160M2 strategic bombers from United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), in a deal worth RUB160 billion (USD2.7 billion dollars), the ministry said on 25 January 2018. The signing ceremony took place during a visit by President Vladimir Putin to the Gorbunov Kazan Aviation Plant, also attended by the head of UAC, Yuri Slyusar, and Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov.

    It is very interesting .

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20633/exclusive-heres-the-f-22-production-restart-study-the-usaf-has-kept-secret-for-over-a-year

    So, let see.

    Above link saying that the restart of F-22 production could cost 10 billion.

    The full cost of f-22 was 30-35 billion up to the start of production.
    Now, the B-1a/b cost was around 400 million $.

    So, we can say that if Tu160M2 restarted in the USA then it should cost between 5-10 billion $, just tooling + infrastructure, and andditional 4 billion for the actual aircraft.

    If we say that half of the 160 billion rubel is for the aircrafts, and the other half is for development, then each Tu160m2 cost 8 billion roubles.

    Now, that gives 1$ =20 RUB "bomber " exchange rate, and put the Russian industry/MIC performance somewhere of the 70-75% of the US equivalent.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:45 pm

    The first deeply modernized Tu-160M ​​aircraft will be created in the summer of 2019.


    Moscow. 5 January. INTERFAX.RU - The first prototype of a deeply modernized strategic Tu-160M ​​missile-bomber is expected to be ready in the summer of 2019, a source in the aviation industry told Interfax.

    "It is planned that in the third quarter of 2019, rolling out of the workshop of the first experienced Tu-160M ​​and its transfer to the flight test station will take place," he said.

    The interlocutor of the agency noted that the new aircraft will have to go through a large complex of ground tests, before heading for the first flight. "Flight tests should begin in the second half of 2019, but it’s still difficult to determine the exact dates of the first flight - it will depend on how long the ground tests will take," the source said.
    Swans" will go to the military in 2022
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    As reported, at the Kazan Aviation Plant (a branch of Tupolev, part of the KLA ), after 10 years of interruption, the production of Tu-160 strategic bomber-bomber bombers, which are the air component of the nuclear triad, is being restored.

    It was noted that outwardly this aircraft will not differ from the base Tu-160, but at the same time its combat capabilities will increase significantly, including by expanding the range of weapons. In addition, for this machine make a new series of engines NK-32, which will increase the range of "strategists" by 1 thousand km.

    In July last year, the head of the Tupolev, Alexander Konyukhov, told Interfax that the first flight of an experimental, upgraded Tu-160M ​​will take place in quarter 3-4 of 2019.

    According to him, “the first new Tu-160M ​​aircraft in a modernized form should be handed over to the VKS in 2021, and the first serial upgraded aircraft to be built by the Tu-160M ​​is scheduled to be handed over to the VKS in 2022.”

    He stressed that these works will be carried out in parallel - "we will both build new aircraft and modernize aircraft in order."


    https://www.interfax.ru/russia/645132



    So wait, 160M will be newly build not 160M2?




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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:29 am

    My interpretation of that would be that they are talking about two upgrades... the aircraft they already have in service will start to be serially upgraded and begin to enter service by 2022, but there were the two unfinished models that have not been operational and have been completed and one will be tested this year and get handed over in 2021.

    New from scratch production of the Tu-160M2 probably wont start until these upgrades are complete and tested... I suspect new aircraft will start production alongside the upgrade of existing models after 2022.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:40 am

    GarryB wrote:My interpretation of that would be that they are talking about two upgrades... the aircraft they already have in service will start to be serially upgraded and begin to enter service by 2022, but there were the two unfinished models that have not been operational and have been completed and one will be tested this year and get handed over in 2021.

    New from scratch production of the Tu-160M2 probably wont start until these upgrades are complete and tested... I suspect new aircraft will start production alongside the upgrade of existing models after 2022.


    Ehat you write is my status too, but this interview is serious disturbance to me No No No


    I dunno why he said: create, build and going to series?since it is upgrade only?! and why he said about 160M only not M2? ok lest wait till puzzles will be solved.


    BTW I've seen today in Russian "liberast" media (founded by know zionist guy) criticizing Avangard. I wont post link in thread I dotn want to derail it because people would treat it not as info warfare but perhaps as real opinion . Juts to let you know: Vth column is alive and kicking. Bastards
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    Post  Hole on Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 pm

    "As reported, at the Kazan Aviation Plant (a branch of Tupolev, part of the KLA ), after 10 years of interruption, the production of Tu-160 strategic bomber-bomber bombers, which are the air component of the nuclear triad, is being restored."

    The Tu-160 is so mighty that one reference to its profession is not enough. It´s not a bomber, it´s a bomber bomber bomber!!! Very Happy
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:35 pm

    Hole wrote:"As reported, at the Kazan Aviation Plant (a branch of Tupolev, part of the KLA ), after 10 years of interruption, the production of Tu-160 strategic bomber-bomber bombers, which are the air component of the nuclear triad, is being restored."

    The Tu-160 is so mighty that one reference to its profession is not enough. It´s not a bomber, it´s a bomber bomber bomber!!!  Very Happy

    It is a bomber that carries bombers (kh-101) that carries bombs (warheads) so no mistake in the name Very Happy
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    Post  Hole on Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:35 pm

    Still one bomber missing. Wink

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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:50 am

    I dunno why he said: create, build and going to series?since it is upgrade only?! and why he said about 160M only not M2? ok lest wait till puzzles will be solved.

    Again, just my interpretation... the new builds are pretty much prototypes to make sure everything works and if there are no problems, remember these new builds are built on the same basic shape and structure as the in service aircraft so using them to fit everything in and make sure it works means once tested and passed the method of upgrade can be serially applied to the in service flying model, then you could start serial upgrade of the older aircraft while preparing for production of new build Tu-160M2s which can have more serious upgrades and changes in shape and design applied.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:48 pm

    Interestingly enough the Nk-32-02 engines will give an increase of 10% to Fuel economy, which adds additional range of 1000km to Tu-160m2. So were looking at range going from 12,300km to 13,300km.


    roduction of Soviet turbojet engines NK-32, installed on the Tu-160 "White Swan", was discontinued after the collapse of the Soviet Union, but at present it is decided to resume their production, but in a modernized version (NK-32-02). The new engine is 10% more economical than the old one, which on average gives an increase in the flight range of the upgraded Tu-160 per thousand kilometers.

    https://vpk.name/news/232890_dvigateli_vtorogo_etapa_dlya_tu160_o_kontrakte_na_nk3202.html
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:27 am

    I am interested in seeing how much they can increase dry thrust... if they could get it to approaching the full AB thrust of the current engines then the potential for super cruising would be enormous.

    In comparison the F-14A and the F-14D... the latter had new much more powerful engines (and much better engines) and could take off from a carrier without using AB.
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    Post  wilhelm on Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:54 pm

    I am assuming the increase in fuel efficiency will be as a result of updated or new electronic engine controls/FADEC, an often overlooked part of engine performance.
    The original engine is an impressive beast, and it makes sense to perhaps concentrate on electronic control enhancements?
    My opinion, for what it is worth.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:35 am

    It is difficult to explain...

    Lets pretend it is a car but that the only way to drive faster than 100km/h right now is to use a turbocharger that doubles the fuel burn by just throwing fuel into the engine to generate more power.

    New engines are more powerful than older engines but often have the same or better fuel efficiency.

    Before if you had the car accelerator pedal hard to the floor you did 100km/h but to go faster you had to engage the turbo, which often more than doubled the fuel consumption so it greatly shortened your driving distance because it burned fuel so rapidly even though you were going 150km/hour you were burning three or four times more fuel so it was just cheaper and easier to go without turbo at 100km/h.

    The issue is that if you have a long way to cover and you have others trying to catch you, going faster is actually useful.

    Supercruising aircraft are basically supersonic aircraft shaped aircraft... so we are talking formula one cars and not campervans here.

    But they have a much more powerful engine... say a V8 which will use more fuel than the current car but only because it generates more power. The fuel burn per horse power per hour might be exactly the same, but the normal car has 80hp without the turbo and maybe 160hp with the turbo, while the V8 might be a 150hp engine without using a turbo and may or may not even have a turbo.

    When the normal car wants to move faster than 100km/h it needs to greatly increase its fuel consumption by using its turbocharger.

    The V8 burns more fuel than the 80hp engine in the other car but at top speed with the turbo charger on it burns much less.

    This suggests a V8 for long range high speed driving is the more efficient. You get there faster and use less fuel than if you had the other car.

    The other car makes more sense if it is around the town where it wont go faster than 100km/h anyway so it does not use its turbocharger anyway.

    The point is that optimising the PAK DA for supercruising means it wont be a huge high drag aircraft with enormous internal space for large heavy weapons like the father of all bombs, and other large bulky aircraft carried weapons internally including super long range missiles and hypersonic weapons... which is likely the reason they went for subsonic, because the wing can be thicker and higher drag but also high lift for carrying large internal payloads of weapons and fuel.

    Subsonic or supersonic is not really important, though the ability to supercruise would have been rather useful.... I suspect the Blackjack will be the super cruising aircraft... it will have four very much improved jet engines with all weapons internal and the low drag of the swing wing design with the wings swept back would be ideal for very high speed super cruising performance.

    Flying at supersonic speeds in dry thrust will greatly improve performance for the Blackjack... effectively it will be covering the same distance at twice the speed but not with twice the fuel consumption...

    A quick calculation filled with some guesses...

    Lets assume cruise speed is mach 0.85 and that is achieved at 70% dry thrust rating.

    The dry thrust of the original NK-32 is about 18 tons I think, so 70% of 18 tons is 12,600kgs thrust. If we guess the fuel economy to be 0.72 kg per kghour, that means it burns 9 tons of fuel per hour at that thrust setting.

    With an upgraded engine the dry thrust might be 22 tons thrust, but it does not get the penalty of using AB so instead of 2.5kg per kg.hour of fuel burned it has a similar fuel burn (might even be less but lets assume the same).

    That means 100% of 22 is 22,000 kgs thrust, which means fuel economy at 0.72kg/kg.h that it burns 15,840kgs of fuel per hour (compared with the original aircraft in a high AB setting that would be burning 55 tons of fuel per hour in AB)

    So the supercrusing aircraft does burn almost double the fuel of the non super cruising aircraft... but the supercruising aircraft is travelling twice as fast... so in effect they cover the same amount of ground but the supercruising aircraft does it in half the time.

    To achieve the same flight speed performance the non supercruising aircraft would burn its fuel far to rapidly and have nothing like the flight range of the supercruising aircraft.
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    Post  hoom on Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:18 am

    Hole back in early December wrote:Would be nice to see a cruise missile test.
    its an interesting thing, I'm seeing several references that in Nov a Tu-160 actually did do a full 12* Kh-101 salvo demonstration prior to the Venezuela trip, we seem to have missed that here.
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    Post  dino00 on Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:15 pm

    Russian military will receive four Tu-160M2 bombers by 2023

    The first plane is already flying, according to a report from the leadership of the Kazan Aviation Plant, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu

    KAZAN, January 30th. / TASS /. By 2023, the Armed Forces of Russia will receive four new Tu-160M2 strategic bomber. Such data was contained in the report of the leadership of the Kazan Aviation Plant to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergey Shoigu, who visited on Wednesday this enterprise of PJSC "Tupolev"

    It was noted that the Tu-160M2 is an absolutely new machine with tactical and technical characteristics, which have no equal in the world in almost all indicators and are not expected in the foreseeable future.

    The company clarified that the first aircraft, the glider of which was made in Soviet times, is already flying, and by the end of 2022 three more brand new TU-160M2 will be handed over to the customer.

    At the same time, the plant upgrades the Tu-160 bombers to the Tu-160M ​​variant, and the Tu-22M3 missile carriers to the level of the Tu-223M3 with significantly improved combat performance. All work carried out by the enterprise within the framework of the state defense order goes according to schedule, reported to the Minister of Defense.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6060365
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    Post  George1 on Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:17 pm

    Russian military to get first upgraded Tupolev-160M bomber in 2021


    The upgraded bomber Tupolev-160M will be equipped with the newest on-board defense system, up-to-date reliable jamming-resistant communication system and unique weapons

    KAZAN, January 30. /TASS/. The first fundamentally upgraded serially produced strategic bomber Tupolev-160M is to be provided for the Russian military in 2021, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Wednesday.

    "The work on producing the upgraded Tupolev-160M proceeds on time. The first serially made plane unparalleled in the world is to be provided for the military in 2021," Shoigu said at a conference in Kazan devoted to Russian Aerospace Force hardware maintenance.


    Shoigu recalled that on instructions from the supreme commander-in-chief the Kazan aircraft building plant had resumed the production of a fundamentally upgraded Tupolev-160M.

    "It will be equipped with the newest on-board defense system, up-to-date reliable jamming-resistant communication system and unique weapons, which will considerably enhance its combat capabilities in using conventional and nuclear weapons. The plane will be powered with NK-32 second series engines, which will considerably increase its range and duration of flight," Shoigu said.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1042489
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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:03 am

    Good picture of the size difference.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:10 am

    [quote="JohninMK"]Good picture of the size difference.

    oh, well now i understand what girls are talking that size does matter lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  Austin on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:54 pm

    Tu-160 Air International/Piotr Butowski

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    Post  dino00 on Mon May 13, 2019 9:38 pm

    Putin spoke about the possible increase in the contract for the Tu-160

    "We signed a contract for 10 cars at the beginning of last year. Another 10 will be upgraded by the Tu-160. And, maybe, we will even increase the number ... taking into account the fact that the Tu-160 is becoming a completely new car, with huge, necessary for Ministry of Defense capabilities, the Ministry of Defense does not preclude an increase in the contract for the future, "- said Putin, talking to the workers of the plant - a branch of PJSC" Tupolev. "

    https://ria.ru/20190513/1553453614.html

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