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    US-Iran standoff 2019- #2

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:34 pm

    Previous to this date, these territories have always been Iranian. Part of Iranian heartland.
    Not only Iranians were in control there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan#Antiquity

    There is little information about permanent Persian population in South Caucasus since the Achaemenid period. Likely the ancestors of modern Tats settled in South Caucasus when the Sassanid Empire from the 3rd to 7th centuries built cities and founded military garrisons to strengthen their positions in this region.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tat_people_(Caucasus)#Demographics

    There are area in Afghanistan that can also join, at right time. Like Herat, to start with. Some in central Asia..
    so, Iran should claim Tajikistan & Kurdistan too, since those languages r related to Iranian? Azerbaijani, on the other hand, is related to Turkish; I heard that Ayatollah Khomeini was Azeri; perhaps Iran & Azerbaijan could form a confederation some day, if that's in their interests.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:15 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Previous to this date, these territories have always been Iranian. Part of Iranian heartland.
    Not only Iranians were in control there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan#Antiquity

    There is little information about permanent Persian population in South Caucasus since the Achaemenid period. Likely the ancestors of modern Tats settled in South Caucasus when the Sassanid Empire from the 3rd to 7th centuries built cities and founded military garrisons to strengthen their positions in this region.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tat_people_(Caucasus)#Demographics

    There are area in Afghanistan that can also join, at right time. Like Herat, to start with. Some in central Asia..
    so, Iran should claim Tajikistan & Kurdistan too, since those languages r related to Iranian? Azerbaijani, on the other hand, is related to Turkish; I heard that Ayatollah Khomeini was Azeri; perhaps Iran & Azerbaijan could form a confederation some day, if that's in their interests.
    or maybe Russia could reclaim all the territory lost after the russian revolution. Or Greece could make a claim over Iran, since Persia was conquered by Alexander the great Very Happy

    Jokes apart, Iran is not in the position to claim additional land. At best they can consolidate an increased influence on their neighbours, possibly including also the Shia parts of saudi Arabia.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:20 pm

    Iran has influence, and extension through the Shia population around the world. But beyond that, they wont be able to really keep it. Azerbaijan has their own people who have their own interests and power grabs which they wont want the Ayatollah or others to control them. But they will have good relations for sure. But Iran's grab of territory is LONG LONG over. But its also best for Iran too cause adding in more territory with more people who may not be interested in being part of Iran will just add more regions which can become problematic.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:33 pm

    @ Radion

    Do you know what Azerbaijan means? Maybe a Turk would know! Or some other tribe. But I know what it means. Do you know what Baku means? I bet you don't know. But I do. You talk about influences. Sure there are influences. But when I talk about natural borders, I talk about a different thing. What are the natural borders of China? There is little doubt. I decide by considering the longer lasting historical boundaries. Sometimes these are easily demarcated by Geography. The Alps in Italy. The caucauss mountain. The Elburz mountain tops.

    And  no Russia can not claim soviet borders. And Greece can not claim Alexander the Queer borders. And Zionist can not claim borders of Christian Kingdom of crusades. Do you know why? Since they did not exist for any length in human history. Not enough to influence the formation of a nation. Same culture and language and history.

    And land grab, is not what I talk about. More a voluntary union. Unless these territory is being used as staging ground for anti Iran alliances. Posing threat. And why Iran can be stopped? For reuniting it's territory? Who is going to stop Iran.? Who will give blood for Iranian lands.?
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:39 pm

    I give u credit for not claiming Georgia too as Iranian territory.
    There r plenty of other countries today that were a lot bigger centuries ago- Egypt, Italy, Greece, Mongolia, Korea, Spain, Portugal, France, Nederland, Sweden & Britain. But I don't hear their claims based on what their former empires once controlled.
    Jokes apart, Iran is not in the position to claim additional land.
    exactly; they can exert influence in the areas they formerly possessed, just like the Europeans do now. Meanwhile:
    https://www.asiatimes.com/2020/01/article/sth-korea-to-send-destroyer-to-straits-of-hormuz/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:05 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:57 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I give u credit for not claiming Georgia too as Iranian territory.
    There r plenty of other countries today that were a lot bigger centuries ago- Egypt, Italy, Greece, Mongolia, Korea, Spain, Portugal, France, Nederland, Sweden & Britain. But I don't hear their claims based on what their former empires once controlled.
    Jokes apart, Iran is not in the position to claim additional land.
    exactly; they can exert influence in the areas they formerly possessed, just like the Europeans do now. Meanwhile:
    https://www.asiatimes.com/2020/01/article/sth-korea-to-send-destroyer-to-straits-of-hormuz/
    there are already too many iranians living and owning property in Georgia, by the way...

    Concerning the other sentence, it was not Italy that was much bigger, it was Rome.

    Modern Italy is not a country, it is just a colony
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:52 pm

    @ Radion

    There are many Georgians ( Gorgestan) in Iran. As well as Armenians  ( Armanestan). They are welcome. BTW, I agree about what you say about difference between Rome and present day Italy. As Tsavo I think confused the issue again. Take Ukraine for example. The population in East, who are  Russians, voted to join Russia. No problem with that. Russia claim for this territory is legitimate. It is based on a current population with the same nationality, joining mother country.

    Iran is same. We have Iranian populations in Asia, that may want to join Iran. So if they want, they can and should. For example the Iranian Azeri people in Republic of Azerbaijan will benefit by joining Iran. Instead of NAZTO.  Iran also has legitimate claim, based on existing population. Not border on old map.

    Now my theory about Ukraine plane crash, being a pilot less plane. Driven by yank as drone against Iran sites as provocation or spy mission. What you think?

    https://youtu.be/XRBTKtVWcf8
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 pm

    nomadski wrote:@ Radion

    There are many Georgians ( Gorgestan) in Iran. As well as Armenians  ( Armanestan). They are welcome. BTW, I agree about what you say about difference between Rome and present day Italy. As Tsavo I think confused the issue again. Take Ukraine for example. The population in East, who are  Russians, voted to join Russia. No problem with that. Russia claim for this territory is legitimate. It is based on a current population with the same nationality, joining mother country.

    Iran is same. We have Iranian populations in Asia, that may want to join Iran. So if they want, they can and should. For example the Iranian Azeri people in Republic of Azerbaijan will benefit by joining Iran. Instead of NAZTO.  Iran also has legitimate claim, based on existing population. Not border on old map.

    Now my theory about Ukraine plane crash, being a pilot less plane. Driven by yank as drone against Iran sites as provocation or spy mission. What you think?

    https://youtu.be/XRBTKtVWcf8

    Well in the past it was mainly military might, and not having the same population and ethnicity, that kept a country together. For that reason the Persians were able to keep many greek cities and territories in Anatolia, before the time of Alexander.

    What kept Rome together until before the decline was a common institution and the country investing in giving a common culture and good infrastructure and living conditions for all the people, independently from the fact that they were from Italy, Greece, Northern Africa, Gallia,or Asia minor. (Well that, and the fact that at that time we used to have blood in our veins, and not water).

    I also believe that the destruction of the multinational empires happening in the last two centuries in Europe on a fake nationalistic base had quite bad results for the population. As an example the life in north east Italy under the Austrian empire was much better than later under the traitorous Savoy (and the working language of the Austrian navy at the time was the Venetian variant of Italian) and I have some friends from there that if they had the choice they would prefer to go back to those times.

    Russia is also today a multinational state. By the way before the 1917 revolution there wasn't a strong independent movement in the baltic. It was fueled later by foreign support and stupid policies from the soviets.

    What I mean is that a multinational country can work even better than a monoethnic state. What is needed is a strong enough government that treats fairly the various constituents and invest on its citizens and its infrastructure and a common unifying culture. Rome had this, modern national states often do not, and many of them will soon implode, also due to the pressure of unchecked immigration.

    Rome started to decline when it was not anymore able to integrate the new population that came into its territories as Roman citizens.

    In Caesar time some people were shocked when, after the end of the civil war, he invited several of the gallic tribal leaders (from the parts of Gallia that were longer under Roman administration into the roman Senate. These people however were already fully integrated: they spoke Latin, they dressed with togas, and their children were educated in the Roman way and according to roman culture.

    [Roma] sospes nemo potest immemor esse tui [...] | Fecisti patriam diversis gentibus unam; | profuit iniustis te dominante capi; | dumque offers victis proprii consortia iuris, | Urbem fecisti, quod prius orbis erat.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:50 pm

    A detailed account, by the looks of it.  I think both Rome and Persian empires, that were long lasting , had rules regarding the way they governed. By allowing allied nations a great deal of autonomy, while allowing for economic taxation and public works and basically civilization building.

    I sense a degree of bias by you towards the old Persians. As being somewhat brutish and violent. Keeping the empire together by military might. You may like to read the first declaration of human rights in the world by cyrus the great. Well before a time when emperor Nero or Caligula was undertaking bestiality and brutality.

    But this form of bias is expected in a Euro-centric world. The  European civilizations had as much owed to old Iranians ( not Persians, a name picked by Romans to describe Iranians or Aryans or Arrans, as we know ourselves).

    For example I am surprised you did not object to : Gorgestan !  We call you in Iran, as Gorgi. The suffix  istan, in farsi means place of. The Asian way, you may say of saying your name country ! Bad !

    You may say. : Georgian. And say this is correct name.  It is in English dictionary. The English suffix. Of  Ian, means of the , or of. But there is no escape for Eurofile. In Persian, the suffix. Ye, also means of or, of the.   Gorgiye, we say in Iran, to say he or she is of Georgia. But Iran came first, before English dictionary, and these place names were places that were of Iran. Or known to Iran.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder


    The place name of  town in English or ton, as in Wolverhampton, is also same in Persian as istan   ( is-ton, ast - ton) Or is place of.  Being Eurofile is a bad thing, blinds you to your heritage and history.No wonder criminal Trump want to bomb Iran cultural heritage. Modern day Caligula.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:52 am

    ..it was not Italy that was much bigger, it was Rome.
    I'm aware of how the Romans took over Italy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_expansion_in_Italy

    Before they started to expand into other areas, Italy was their sole tarf from 264BC till in 202BC, or 62 years, when Rome seized Carthage possessions In the Med. Sea. Bigger land gains in Europe were made much later, starting with J. Caesar: https://www.vox.com/world/2018/6/19/17469176/roman-empire-maps-history-explained
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:50 am

    nomadski wrote:A detailed account, by the looks of it.  I think both Rome and Persian empires, that were long lasting , had rules regarding the way they governed. By allowing allied nations a great deal of autonomy, while allowing for economic taxation and public works and basically civilization building.

    I sense a degree of bias by you towards the old Persians. As being somewhat brutish and violent. Keeping the empire together by military might. You may like to read the first declaration of human rights in the world by cyrus the great. Well before a time when emperor Nero or Caligula was undertaking bestiality and brutality.

    But this form of bias is expected in a Euro-centric world. The  European civilizations had as much owed to old Iranians ( not Persians, a name picked by Romans to describe Iranians or Aryans or Arrans, as we know ourselves).

    For example I am surprised you did not object to : Gorgestan !  We call you in Iran, as Gorgi. The suffix  istan, in farsi means place of. The Asian way, you may say of saying your name country ! Bad !

    You may say. : Georgian. And say this is correct name.  It is in English dictionary. The English suffix. Of  Ian, means of the , or of. But there is no escape for Eurofile. In Persian, the suffix. Ye, also means of or, of the.   Gorgiye, we say in Iran, to say he or she is of Georgia. But Iran came first, before English dictionary, and these place names were places that were of Iran. Or known to Iran.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder


    The place name of  town in English or ton, as in Wolverhampton, is also same in Persian as istan   ( is-ton, ast - ton) Or  is place of.  Being Eurofile is a bad thing, blinds you to your heritage and history.No wonder criminal Trump want to bomb Iran cultural heritage. Modern day Caligula.
    I am Italian, not Georgian. By the way, the name of Georgia in their own language is Sakartvelo (it should be something like land of the kartvelian).  I thought the name Georgia was given them by the greeks, but maybe it was an hellenization of the Persian name.

    Edit; as far as I know the name Georgia comes from the fact that they are very devoted to Saint George, to the point that many churches bear his name and a large part of children are given the name Giorgi.

    And yes I am aware that the suffix -stan comes from Persian and means something like country (or "Land" in German).

    I am not europhile, i love Roman and ancient greek history and culture and I am also aware that ethnically Iranians are closer to us than other groups in the middle east.

    I do not have particular bias towards the Persian empire.
    We had in history several skirmishes and battles against one or more of its iterations (like the Parthians), and one of them was a terrible defeat because of the idiocy of the general (proconsul) in charge (Crassus), that wanted to emulate the successes of Ceasar and Pompeus and get glory for himself. Caesar himself planned a long military campaign against the Parthians, but he was killed a couple of days before leaving Rome to do it.

    Lastly, it is sometimes funny when you think at how your country is called in other languages. Italy is called almost the same in most languages that I have heard, except for Polish: Włochy.

    P.S. sometimes history is a interesting and a bit sad. One of  my favourite Roman General, Germanicus, was still very young when he commanded the army in Germany and got revenge for the defeat of Teutoburg. He was young and smart and victorious, and was loved all around the Roman state. He was to be Tiberius's successor, and some of his contemporaries were comparing him to Alexander.

    Unfortunately he died very young (probably poisoned) while in Syria. His son (Caligula) and later his grandson (Nero) would later both become emperors,  but they had not his skills and sanity. Too bad.


    Last edited by Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:25 am

    We had in history several skirmishes and battles against one or more of its iterations (like the Parthians), and one of them was a terrible defeat because of the idiocy of the general (proconsul) in charge (Crassus),..  Caesar himself planned a long military campaign against the Parthians,..
    Emperor Valerian was also defeated & ..taken captive by the Persian Emperor, Shapur I, after the Battle of Edessa, becoming the first Roman emperor to be captured as a prisoner of war, causing shock and instability throughout the Roman Empire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_(emperor)

    The Romans weren't able to conquer the Persians- it was a stalemate.
    Persia/Iran is the only country in the ME that has close ties with both India & China since ancient times.
    As noted before, it's still important to both.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:53 am

    @ Radion

    I am not the one denying history. You are. Because as I said, you are blind to importance of Eastern civilizations. This is result of recent Western expansionist and colonialism and racism. Historical revisionism serves the purpose of political reaction.

    You know in Iran, there is also a town called Gorgan. ( wolves). As there is a town called Kerman ( German). The history of Europe, starts in Iran. But we are not blonde. A recent disease in thinking of Europeans.

    "....... External Western and Russian exonyms are likely derived from gurğān, the Persian designation of the Georgians, evolving from Middle Persian wurğān/wirucān and Old Persian varkân (Old Persian va.pngOld Persian ra.pngOld Persian ka.pngOld Persian a.pngOld Persian na.png) meaning "the land of the wolves". This is also reflected in Old Armenian virk' (վիրք), it being a source of Ancient Greek iberia (ιβηρία), that entered Latin as Hiberia........ "

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Georgia_(country)

    The Gorgi, should be thought of as Iranian peoples to a large extent.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia%E2%80%93Persia_relations

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:56 am

    nomadski wrote:@ Radion

    I am not the one denying history. You are. Because as I said, you are blind to importance of Eastern civilizations. This is result of recent Western expansionist and colonialism and racism. Historical revisionism serves the purpose of political reaction.

    You know in Iran, there is also a town called Gorgan. ( wolves). As there is a town called Kerman ( German). The history of Europe, starts in Iran. But we are not blonde. A recent disease in thinking of Europeans.

    "....... External Western and Russian exonyms are likely derived from gurğān, the Persian designation of the Georgians, evolving from Middle Persian wurğān/wirucān and Old Persian varkân (Old Persian va.pngOld Persian ra.pngOld Persian ka.pngOld Persian a.pngOld Persian na.png) meaning "the land of the wolves". This is also reflected in Old Armenian virk' (վիրք), it being a source of Ancient Greek iberia (ιβηρία), that entered Latin as Hiberia........ "

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Georgia_(country)

    The Gorgi, should be thought of as Iranian peoples to a large extent.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia%E2%80%93Persia_relations


    Where did I say something against eastern civilisations?
    You are accusing me of denying history. Can you please substantiate?
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:17 pm

    Many questions remain unanswered over why and how flight FL-752 was bought down by Iran’s Revolutionary Guard force

    https://news.antiwar.com/2020/01/21/more-us-troops-left-iraq-for-treatment-after-iran-missile-attack/

    https://news.antiwar.com/2020/01/21/us-envoy-warns-iran-not-to-withdraw-from-npt/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add links)
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:56 pm


    @ Rodion

    Well you said, there are too many Iranians in Georgia. While you claim to be Italian. Also you mentioned that Iran used military might to keep Empire together. While Rome was somewhat more civilised. So these together, to me are clear indications of bias. Iranians have good relations with regional countries. Sharing long history.

    @ Tsavo

    There are claims and counter claims. Now some claim that no missile was fired at all. For me it looks very likely that a special ops team, took plane down. From evidence already available. They have become bold recently. They used to carry out simple psy-ops, like changing bill boards in street. But today they assassinated two more officials in Iran.

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2020/01/22/2187263/iran-to-launch-homegrown-satellite-in-weeks

    Now for those in the know, the weight of sattelite was at first given at 90 Kg. Increased to 111 Kg. And now 113 Kg.
    ****must be very advanced design. So it can be launched with existing Rocket engine.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:35 pm

    nomadski wrote:
    @ Rodion

    Well you said, there are too many Iranians in Georgia. While you claim to be Italian. Also you mentioned that Iran used military might to keep Empire together. While Rome was somewhat more civilised. So these together, to me are clear indications of bias. Iranians have good relations with regional countries. Sharing long history.

     

    I never said that Rome  did not use military power or that it was nicer than Persia. Please stop interpreting and filling blanks in my comments.

    I wrote that without military power you can't keep an empire together.  However, if you have just that it becomes only an oppression.  

    Romans  also invested in infrastructure and gave a unifying society and culture to the  people that they conquered, even if there were injustices and inequalities as well (as an example in italy at the beginning of the first century before Christ there were many cities that did not have full Roman status,while in other cities people had roman citizenship. This was solved only with the social wars. And yes, Romans were sometimes arrogant  and also brutal in war, I never ignored this fact.  I imagine that also Persia had some advantages for the people belonging to the empire and did not treat them just as colony to be abused and robbed (like England, France, Japan and many other countries did instead in more recent times).
    If I am not mistaken , when Alexander came in Asia Minor to reconquest the greek cities under persian control, many of them said that they were quite happy to be part of the persian empire and did not need to be freed.

    Concerning Georgia. It is a small country and with a population that is not getting bigger. Unfortunately the majority of the population has seen a worsening of the living standards,  and many flats, houses and apartments are owned by foreigners (from Iran, Turkey,  european union,etc). I know that because I have been there and I have several friends there.
    Concerning the mentality, they remind me of the south of Italy.

    And I know that they don't like to be repeated that they were under turkish and Persian control, before they became part of the russian empire. They still accuse Russia to have stolen territories that were actually under Georgian control only in their golden age in the 13 century.


    Anyway, as modern Italy is not ancient Rome, we can also say that modern  Iran is  not ancient Persia (the Achaemenid empire), nor the seleucide, the parthian or the sassanid empire, so the claim to other territories are quite unsubstantiated.


    Last edited by Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:43 pm

    US and Israel may strike Iran on January 23, 2020 https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2835932.html

    Is Russia a Partner of Iran or Small Satan?
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2835818.html
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:26 pm

    Aparts from dreams of conquering other countries, i would be more interested in understanding how Iran could help in stabilizing Afghanistan after the American will be gone from the region. Farsi is widely spoken in Afghanistan and I believe that also the other official language is related to Farsi.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:US and Israel may strike Iran on January 23, 2020 https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2835932.html
    Last paras of the article via Yandex

    On January 14, the annual analytical report of Israel's military intelligence was published. The report concludes that by the end of 2020, Iran will have enough enriched uranium to produce its own nuclear bomb.

    According to Israeli intelligence, the removal of Iranian General Qasem Suleimani, head of the IRGC's foreign special operations unit al-Quds, will affect the decline in activity in the region in the near future, and also represents a chance to deliver a powerful destructive blow to dozens of sites in Syria, undermining the consolidation of the Iranian presence near the borders of Israel.

    We can conclude that if Tehran tries to develop a military nuclear program and create a potential in this area, the probability of a strike on Iran by the United States and Israel, and possibly other allies, is close to 100%.

    For such a blow, of course, a convenient moment must be chosen. Let's try to pick a date theoretically. Hypothetically, this could be a date like, for example, January 23, 2020.

    On this day, world leaders will gather in Jerusalem to mark the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp and the International Holocaust memorial day. The event will be held at the Yad Vashem memorial complex in Jerusalem.

    Forty-seven heads of state, royalty, presidents, Prime Ministers, and heads of Parliament from Europe, North America, and Australia will participate in the fifth world Holocaust remembrance forum. The event will open at 13: 30 with a speech by Israeli President Reuven Rivlin.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin, Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu, Vice President of the United States of America Michael Pence (official confirmation is expected), French President Emmanuel macron, Prince Charles of Wales and German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier will also speak at the Forum.

    Interestingly, while official confirmation of participation in the event is expected from the speaker of the house of representatives of the us Congress Nancy Pelosi.

    Tehran has repeatedly stated that in the event of a strike on its territory, it will immediately strike back at the territory of Israel. In the event of a military action against Iran on January 23, 2020, the Iranian military and political leadership will be faced with a difficult choice: whether to strike back at Israel, taking into account the presence of world leaders from dozens of countries, including those who treat Iran positively or neutrally.
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    ATLASCUB

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    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:44 pm

    Targeted assassinations within Iran.

    The enemy smells fear and indecisiveness.
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski on Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:24 pm

    @ Radion

    You did not clarify initially. In fact pointed out a bias. Glad to see, this is not your position. Also you did not clarify that it was foreign investment, that you saw as problem, mentioning only " Persians". However this recovery by you, again hampered by you saying : Iranians should go to Afghanistan..... " Are you in the habit of telling people, where they should or should not go?  And are you in the habit of telling people, where they should or should not buy property or invest money? I don't have this idea. People should be free to travel and invest money.

    Iranians ( not Persians), have undoubtedly had Gorjistan, as part of the union, for many years. The Western historical references, deny this link. By historical revisionism. Anything from denying historical name places to be of Iranian origin. Such as Iberia, a Roman name, instead of Gorji, an Iranian name. A name the people themselves know themselves by. To many name places and historical links.

    There are also Roman influences. No doubt. As well as other influences. A shared history. But with important Iranian link. And I think the people should not forget, or be misguided by historical revisionism. They should celebrate their history and historical links.

    I think all Caucasian people, who have Iranian roots or want Iranian citizenship, should have Iranian passports. And as far as conquest. Well you can not conquer what is already yours. You can unify. With public vote. Or if population is under genocide or duress by military. It is not a dream.

    @ Tsavo

    The Russian people are liked in Iran. They are not thought of as little Satan. That title reserved for English. And as far as Russia, not in position to occupy Iran or defeat Iran militarily. I have no problem with them. The question is how to protect the weak from the strong. Since the strong almost always destroy the weak. Few exceptions. I disagree with Putin, regarding potentiality. All humans can destroy, given potential opportunity. The strong against the weak. Regarding Zionist attack or yank attack. What is stopping them? After Iran launched missiles. With yet unknown number of dead? Iran may not be getting stronger, anytime soon. Or they maybe, if these sattelite launches, mean what I think they mean. But yank getting weaker in region. Time to leave.

    @ Atlasclub

    Fear it is not. Indicisiveness maybe. Most likely caution. Patience. Getting stronger. So can win more easily.
    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:13 pm

    @Nomadski

    Afghanistan is a totally different topic than the Caucasus.
    However a few posts ago you were talking about expanding iranian influence and control.
    For that reasons I thought of it

    Afghanistan is a mess at the moment, and the United states are not in the position solving the problems (nor they want to do it).

    Of course, with all the issues in Iraq and in Syria, this is not the priority, but sooner or later the Americans will leave both former Mesopotamia and Afghanistan (maybe lingering still for a few years in the Arabic peninsula) , and I believe that Iran, together with Russia and China, could play an important role in transforming Afghanistan into a normal functioning state.

    Afterall Iran shares a land border and a language with this country and they would also benefit from a stable and functioning neighbour.


    What I do not know is the contribution of the other neighbour Pakistan, since apparently they have been also supporting the Talibans....
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    Vann7

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    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:02 pm



    casualties in the next report potentially connected with the iranian attack on US base..

    https://www.rt.com/newsline/478946-australia-water-tanker-missing/

    but reported as a crash on australia ,combating fires..



    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:25 pm

    Iranians find a wary refuge in Georgia

    The Pentagon sends bombers in the Indian Ocean

    Russia helped Iran launch missile strikes on US bases in Iraq - media
    The Kuwaiti press reports about 16 American servicemen who received injuries after this missile raid at the Kuwait hospital. Some of them have severe burns, while others have shrapnel wounds. The Al-Kabas publication, citing its sources, reports that the wounded American military were taken to a hospital in the Arjifan camp at Ahmed Al Jaber airbase under strict guard. All the soldiers who received treatment underwent surgery and are in the intensive care unit at the hospital. In addition, it became known that several more US troops (the exact number is not indicated), who were slightly injured during the same missile attacks, are undergoing treatment in Iraq.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a quote)

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