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    Turkish-Cyprus (Greece) tensions

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:36 pm

    I open this new topic about the ongoing tensions btw Turkey and EU supported Cyprus. (There is no other topic about that and I think it is better to let it here in ME section rather than in Turkey or Greece section of the forum). IMO it will be the new hot spot after Syrian war and could likely lead to a war between conventional forces.

    The tensions btw the two are increasing because Turkey is exploiting oil and gaz ressources in the territorial waters of Cyprus which Cyprus allowed France's Total and Italian ENI to exploit.

    In this climat France is sending a FREMM frigate for exercice with Cyprus navy and very likely Italy will do the same.

    Link in french.

    http://www.opex360.com/2019/10/12/la-france-deploie-au-moins-une-fregate-dans-les-eaux-chypriotes-ou-la-turquie-a-envoye-un-navire-de-forage/
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:28 am

    Italy and France will backdown after a little petty show, while in Athens they are too busy watching Turkish TV shows and speaking about climate change. In the meantime American cowards keep running, only Greeks believe to their strength these days (maybe Ukrainians as well). Europeans are too busy making billions with turkey from slave trade (Greek ruling elite main business these days). Result, a Turkish walkover.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:49 am

    If turkey attacks Cyprus we will respond
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:24 am

    Even if Turks enter Athens the cowards that created the 3rd Greek democracy will do nothing.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:57 am

    Europes other Kosovo... interesting...

    Of course Europe was happy to have Turkey in NATO because of its location regarding the Soviet Union and now Russia, but they never really accepted them as being european... which is really odd and rather amusing because they treat the Russians in a very similar way... ie part of europe when they want to trade or good relations, and not part of europe most of the rest of the time...

    There has been a lot of time to sort this out... adding Turkey to the EU could have been part of the solution perhaps, but keeping them out has its effects too.

    This is a serious issue and I don't think it will be solved any time soon...
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:44 am

    Hannibal, overly pessimistic perhaps ?
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:02 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Even if Turks enter Athens the cowards that created the 3rd Greek democracy will do nothing.
    the current Greek state is a puppet state created by foreign powers that has nothing to do with the ancient greek city states, the reign of Alexander the Great and of the successors hellenistic kingdoms and even less with the greek speaking Easter Roman Empire.

    They just share a (very) small part of the ancient borders of the Greek and the Roman Greek civilisation and a language derived by it....

    And to think that the last Roman Greek emperor died defending Constantinople from the Turks....
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:05 am

    What borders should they have? There are currently no Greeks in Anatolia.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:18 am

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:What borders should they have? There are currently no Greeks in Anatolia.
    there were relatively few turks in anatolia when the ottomans conquered Costantinople and also the vast majority  of the population was composed by Orthodox Christians.

    Many families  converted (same thing that happened in Bosnia, were ethnic south western slavs converted to Islam during the Turkish occupation).

    The strange thing is that there was probably  more religious  freedom  under the ottomans than under the modern Turkish state created by Ataturk.

    Edit: furthermore it is also possibile that also in the ancient Times the population of Anatolia was Hellenized but never majority Greek by blood (maybe including quite a bit of a mix of hittites and persians).
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:25 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:Even if Turks enter Athens the cowards that created the 3rd Greek democracy will do nothing.
    the current Greek state is a puppet state created by foreign powers that has nothing to do with the ancient greek city states, the reign of Alexander the Great  and of the successors hellenistic kingdoms and even less with the greek speaking Easter Roman Empire.

    They just share a (very) small part of the ancient borders of the Greek and the Roman Greek civilisation and a language derived by it....

    And to think that the last Roman Greek emperor died defending Constantinople from the Turks....

    From 1821 greece was a puppet state of foreign powers. Thats another subject
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:26 pm

    You guys are too much stuck in the past. Now USA are the main supplier of both while Greece buys from Europe too (military speaking).

    In case of war, its the technology that prevails. Greece Mirages are better than turkish f-16 and greece f16 are being upgrded.

    Greece S-300 are maned by their own people and protected by tor/osa. Still not the case of turkish s-400. Cyprus has also a good amount of buks on the island that will destroy any f16 trying to bomb them.

    Greece has 170 leo 2A6 that much better than the turkish 2A4. Other than that they match togather. Cyprus t-80 are better than any turkish tank.



    Russia will support Greece anyday. Just like EU. And now US (and Saudi arabia, UAE because they hate Erdogan).

    If US sanction them and stop providing spare parts they are dead. They would need at least 50 years to replace their hardwares with russian ones and chinese.

    In terms of training Greece is better since Erdogan put half of its staff in jail.
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    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:25 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Even if Turks enter Athens the cowards that created the 3rd Greek democracy will do nothing.

    Sometimes we push the button
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:31 pm

    France is sending a FREMM and a patrol frigate to Cyprus to deter the Turks from messing with the Total mission. Italy refused to support Eni and they backed out. It looks like France is the only one with the balls to give Turkey the middle finger. Not even Trump will do it.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:39 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:France is sending a FREMM and a patrol frigate to Cyprus to deter the Turks from messing with the Total mission.  Italy refused to support Eni and they backed out.  It looks like France is the only one with the balls to give Turkey the middle finger.  Not even Trump will do it.  

    That's another story. We have interests in Cyprus. Not so much in Syria.

    Turkey isn't a big partener for us while we will sell frigates to Greece and they are a EU member which is more important than a nato member.
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    Post  George1 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:54 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:France is sending a FREMM and a patrol frigate to Cyprus to deter the Turks from messing with the Total mission.  Italy refused to support Eni and they backed out.  It looks like France is the only one with the balls to give Turkey the middle finger.  Not even Trump will do it.  

    That's another story. We have interests in Cyprus. Not so much in Syria.

    Turkey isn't a big partener for us while we will sell frigates to Greece and they are a EU member which is more important than a nato member.

    there is traditional friendship between France and Greece Smile
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:36 am

    George1 wrote:
    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:Even if Turks enter Athens the cowards that created the 3rd Greek democracy will do nothing.
    the current Greek state is a puppet state created by foreign powers that has nothing to do with the ancient greek city states, the reign of Alexander the Great  and of the successors hellenistic kingdoms and even less with the greek speaking Easter Roman Empire.

    They just share a (very) small part of the ancient borders of the Greek and the Roman Greek civilisation and a language derived by it....

    And to think that the last Roman Greek emperor died defending Constantinople from the Turks....

    From 1821 greece was a puppet state of foreign powers. Thats another subject
    totally agree. With current state I meant situation starting with the 19th century. I believe they were even forced to refuse all the ties with the eastern Roman Empire.


    For Italy is the same. In 19th century there was a forced unification under a french speaking nobility that never did the interest of the Italians (and that previously already oppressed the sardinian population) The italian republic after ww2 has been even worse.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:52 am

    Russia will support Greece anyday.

    I rather suspect Putin would say to both sides not to make a conflict out of this and to start talking... once the missiles start flying a lot of people are going to get killed and it can easily get out of hand... what if the Turks feel cornered and decide to take possession of the American nukes on their soil... ...but then Putin knows what it is like to be the only adult in the room...

    But of course killing and violence always sort out the problem fairly... look at Kosovo and former yugoslavia... all cuddles and care bears and rainbows there today... all sorted.  NOT... violence took a bad situation and made it much worse... do we learn from that or just keep making the same mistake over and over.

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    Post  zorobabel on Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:11 am

    Doubtful modern Greece could put up much of a fight. The culture there seems completely overrun by Eurocommunism and cultural Marxism.
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    Post  George1 on Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:03 am

    zorobabel wrote:Doubtful modern Greece could put up much of a fight. The culture there seems completely overrun by Eurocommunism and cultural Marxism.

    so we are pro-leftists Very Happy
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:19 am

    But europe is the core of human civilisation and the height of morals and ethics... surely you can work it out by talking... I mean look at how well the UK and EU are handling that situation... like calm mature adults using reason and open and free debate with sound judgement... to pick a rigid position and demand the other capitulate and admit they were wrong all the time or it is no deal.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:16 pm

    Greek F-16s in Cyprus military excersize


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