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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:40 am

    Satanovsky: plane crash in Iran “puts an end” to Western accusations against Russia on MH17
    https://politpuzzle.ru/157386-satanovskij-aviakatastrofa-v-irane-stavit-krest-na-obvineniyah-zapada-k-rossii-po-mh17/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:56 pm

    Ukraine lost 11M in recent years: https://iz.ru/969513/igor-karmazin/territoriia-bezliudia-pochemu-vymiraiut-postsovetskie-strany
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:28 pm

    Ukraine's Donbas Don: Who is Rinat Akhmetov?
    https://eurasianet.org/ukraines-donbas-don-who-is-rinat-akhmetov

    Why will Vladimir Zelensky forever remain a supporting actor?
    https://www.apn.ru/index.php?newsid=38173
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:18 pm

    That is bullshit... 100 million dollars is peanuts and is really nothing in the scheme of things...
    Still, since 2014, the Crimean economy suffered greatly from the loss of tourism; the RF also been selling Kiev oil & gas at reduced rates, gave them $3B, & lost a lot of $ on import substitution on marine turbines, aircraft & engines. The VMF would also now have that infamous Slava CG, & perhaps Ulyanovsk CVN; the use of the Nikolaev shipyard could have prevented the loss of that drydock & damage to the Adm. K. Besides, Ms of low Ukrainian wage workers in the EU help its economy instead of Russia's- which has to import laborers from Central Asia, some of whom commit serious crimes.
    Materialization of the collapse of Ukraine https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2851532.html
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:18 pm

    You don't know how economics works.

    Import substitution means more work for locals, more money circulates the economy rather than leaving the country and makes use or multiple industries meaning more internal demand.

    So whatever was "lost" was gained tenfold. Like Pogosyan once said "1 Kopek invested in a Sukhoi jet = 3 kopeks back into the economy"
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:47 pm

    Russia-Ukraine split cost them dearly; it caused cancellations (An-70/148)/delays in their rearmament/modernization programs, & the benefits of import substitution will take many years to trickle to the rest of the economy & pay for itself.
    All things considered, reintegration will also cost a lot, if not more, in blood & treasure. On that score, the west succeeded in using an excuse for its meddling/sanctions & slowing Russia's rize.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:09 pm

    No it wouldn't

    People are paid monthly, not by when product is finished.

    The people work and spend on goods. The more professionals needed the better wages thus more disposable income. Hence why Russia sees more financial growth in rubles term plus fact industrial output has never been better.

    Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:24 pm

    What you are talking about are short term issues and there are pros and cons on both sides.

    There are two real long term benefits to Russia, the first is gaining ownership of Crimea, its military and commercial assets and population, the second and of underestimated importance, is the very large number of Ukrainians, especially the 'technical' classes, who moved east into Russia. Both Europe and Russia have falling population problems ahead. Europe took in a million plus of in the main uneducated, non local language, alien religion and culture immigrants, Russia took in a million educated, Russian speaking, common religion and culture immigrants. Who did best?

    Whilst there would have been mixed feelings in Moscow at the time of the coup, since then they will have raised their glasses many times thanking God for their good fortune of on the one hand the West taking their obligations to Ukraine away and on the other all the benefits that they would gain over the years to come. In some ways it could not have turned out better if they had planned it.

    OK Donbas is a problem but it is insignificant in the greater scheme of things.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:42 pm

    Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
    I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.
    Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
    It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:52 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
    I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.
    Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
    It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.
    Russia would have needed the Ukraine of 1992, not the one of 2014.

    It is a pity for the historical russian cities (including your Odessa) and for the part of the population that is not rabid russophobic, but there is not much that could be done.

    The Ukrainian leadership since the separation, also the ones that faked to be friends of Russia,  has always backstabbed and created problems, even preferring to destroy newly built strategic bombers (that were mainly deployed in air force bases inside ukraine) than to sell them to Russia.


    Russia should never trust again not only the west, but also and above all former soviet country and be dependent on them for strategic goods or mutual production. Even Belorussia now is walking the same damned path. If they were russians regions it would be another matter, but history has been malignant on this.

    I agree that there are still things that could be savaged, but now after so much damage in the minds of at least two generations of Ukrainians it will be very difficult.

    Russia however cannot and should not fix it. Your former countrymen made it clear that they did not want  to be part of the Russian world, and even in Odessa or Kharkov people did not care enough.


    Maybe the situation will change later, but at the moment the best for Russia is to wait, use the spare money to invest inside itself and slowly integrate Donbass.

    Or do you think that Russia should just occupy the whole of the south and east of Ukraine and deport to some gulags the many millions ukrainians that do not want a reunion?
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:10 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
    I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.
    Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
    It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.

    In 20 years Russia spent over $200B subsidizing Ukraine. They didn't actually get that money back in trade as the trade barely benefitted Russia.

    So no, you don't know shit all about economics.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:32 am

    In 20 years Russia spent over $200B subsidizing Ukraine. They didn't actually get that money back in trade as the trade barely benefitted Russia.
    Yes, but it was worth it, as they believe that they r 1 people & some day will reunite politically.
    Regionalism doesn't cancel the fact that most of the population there r Russian speakers & have similar mentality. Western Ukraine & Galicia in particular will ever succeeded in imposing its neo-nazi nationalism on the rest of Malorossia. So, they r ideologically & ethnically closer to Russia even as they have some differences only known to themselves.
    Many Ukrainian settlers r in the Kuban & the Far East, but I never heard of them wanting to secede.
    Indeed, there r big differences among the far flung regions of Russia, even in the European part, between the White, Baltic & Black Seas, but the country stays together.
    In Ukraine, local differences r exacerbated by the failing economy & the oligarchs.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:35 am

    I think Tsavo is believing the western propaganda that the conflict in the Ukraine is between Russia and the Ukraine... it isn't.

    It is between Ukraine and Ukraine.

    The people in the Donbass don't think they are Russian and want to join Russia... though going forward that might be their only practical option unless Kiev starts manning up and acting more mature and talking instead of shooting and bombing.

    Think of it in the case of America... imagine a foreign power spent 500 billion dollars to create a coup in the US... they can't use either the in power party or their alternative... (in the case of the Ukraine the in power party is the nationalists they wanted to remove because they made the choice of Russia instead of the EU, and the second most powerful party is the communists which obviously they could also not support in a coup)... so in both cases they are left with the dreggs... the groups that rarely even get a single percentage in elections like the Nazi parties and the other weirdos... In the US because there are only two political parties you would have to create some... the Native American Collective Party.... NACP... and one of the first laws they introduce is to ban English in all government jobs and official situations... you can only speak one of the many American Indian languages... well of course people will rebel against that... the first problem will be finding enough native speakers to teach the rest to speak the language, and the second is that many people wont want to learn to speak a language they have never spoken before...

    My point is that these Americans who take up arms and rebel against the new government are not doing it because they want the English to come back and rule over them... they just want to continue speaking English... and it is the same in the Ukraine... they don't want to become part of Russia though now that Kiev and the west have basically ruined the Ukraine they might think becoming part of Russia is their only salvation, but they just want to be able to speak the language they speak they don't want to be Russian... otherwise they would have done what the Crimea did and had a referendum and become part of the Russian Federation... it seems to have gone rather well for them...

    Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
    It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.

    The facts of the matter are that the Ukraine had lots of left over industry from the Soviet period and that industry was used by Russia for its war machine and they continued to use that industry right up until 2014, but even before then there were lots of problems with Antonov and Motor Sich being prissy pains in the ass that cost money and contracts with their bullshit.

    The Ukraine had helicopter and ship engine technology that the Russians didn't and they didn't because they used Ukrainian technology in their stuff.

    The facts of the matter are that Russia poured enormous amounts of money in to the Ukrainian economy buying their stuff for no thanks at all... now if the Ukraine had cut Russia off in 1992 then it would have been a problem because there would be no money to fix it... today they have the new technology and money to build new modern factories and develop new technologies and upgraded engines and systems with new materials and new design techniques to allow them to make better products than the Ukraine was making.

    Russia was the main client of Ukrainian engines and rockets and other things, so when the Ukraine cut Russia off they basically taped up their own mouths.

    Now instead of spending billions of dollars on the Ukrainian economy paying wages and keeping them working they can now build factories in Russia to make the same things which they then own the designs of and can sell to anyone they please without permission from a hostile state.

    When they buy 600 new engines for helicopters they will be made in Russia by Russian workers who will spend their wages in Russia to help the Russian economy.

    As mentioned... "losing the Ukraine" was a good thing for Moscow because Russia was carrying the Ukraine economically.

    Eventually an American government is going to get in to power that says we can't keep doing this... we have an enormous debt and we are supporting too many useless deadbeats in too many countries and it is hurting us economically and politically and they will drop a lot of the bribes and support they distribute around the world... and the Ukraine is already on that list I suspect...

    I expect attitudes in the Ukraine and Europe towards Russia to change radically fairly quickly... I mean look a Micron... they have to have dialog with Russia now... well that is a bit of a turn around...
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:41 am

    Yes, and those engines made in Russia (VK-2500) are using parts from other Russian companies and using steel and other materials refined in Russia to make it. So It may have created let's say 50 high paying jobs. But it also gave contracts to dozens of companies who have hundreds or thousands of workers.

    Ukraine was always a black whole for Russia's economy. If they want to chop their nose off to spite their face, go ahead. America can place bases there. Just means Islanders are in easy reach to those bases and city centers and missiles are far cheaper than Benedict Arnold.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:47 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Start learning the basics before talking nonsense.
    I know the basics & don't need u to tell me that.
    Even if there r, & despite of great benefits, now & in the long run, my point is that Russia lost a lot, esp. since 2014, in the context of her bad relations with Ukraine.
    It will take many years, possible decades, for the situation to stabilize.

    In 20 years Russia spent over $200B subsidizing Ukraine.  They didn't actually get that money back in trade as the trade barely benefitted Russia.

    So no, you don't know shit all about economics.

    Indeed. This resident ignoramus insinuates that Ukraine was some sort of massive market for Russian exports. Russia did not have and
    still does not have a dependence on exports. And by what metric did the "loss" of Banderastan lead to Russian "losses"? If
    you measure Russian exports, it is oil and gas prices that drive them since Russia's exports are over 50% oil and gas. And no,
    Russia's GDP does not depend 50% on oil and gas. It depends 6.4% on oil and gas.

    The biggest losses from the 2014 Kiev coup have been delays in some military projects. For example ships depending on Zorya Stroimash
    gas turbines for ships. But Russia has replaced these imports with its own production of new and more efficient designs. So the short
    term "loss" has been replaced by long-term gain. Every dollar of imports replaced by domestic production translates to two dollars of
    GDP gain. That is because there is the +1 dollar in local production and the elimination of -1 dollar debit for foreign purchases.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:54 am

    The people in the Donbass don't think they are Russian and want to join Russia...
    Most of them will get RF passports & do want to be an autonomy within Russia. They did have referendums there on becoming independent:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbass_status_referendums

    That had to be done 1st before any future referendums on joining Russia, unlike in Crimea which already had its autonomy within Ukraine several years prior to 2014. Besides, Russia isn't ready to formally takeover those republics while the conflict is still ongoing; she can gain more by waiting for the situation to ripen & more territory to fall in their lap, w/o unnecessary shots being fired.
    If just the 3 majority Slavic republics- Russia, Ukraine & Belorussia stayed together, all the hugelosses RF sustained could be avoided.
    In retrospect, those 3 leaders who signed the accord to dissolve the USSR & create the CIS were traitors to their people.
    Ukraine also helped separatist Chechnya & later Georgia against the RF; Chechens & Georgians were participating in the Donbass fighting on the Kiev side ever since, adding to those losses.
    As of 2014, Russia's Finance Minister announced that the sanctions had cost Russia $40 billion, with another $100 billion loss in 2014 taken due to the decrease in the price of oil the same year driven by the 2010s oil glut.Following the latest sanctions imposed in August 2018, economic losses incurred by Russia amount to some 0.5–1.5% of foregone GDP growth.
    In addition to the sanctions, Russian President Vladimir Putin has accused the United States of conspiring with Saudi Arabia to intentionally weaken the Russian economy by decreasing the price of oil. By mid-2016, Russia had lost an estimated $170 billion due to financial sanctions, with another $400 billion in lost revenues from oil and gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis
    Some believe that Russia's ban on western imports had the additional effect on these challenging events as the embargo led to higher food prices and further inflation in addition to the effects of decreased value of the ruble which had already raised the price of imported goods.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_Ukrainian_crisis#Effect_on_Russia

    Those $570B by itself is not a small amount by any stretch, & Russia could use those $ for a lot of better things had she not lost them.

    Ukraine Officials Say US Holding Up Arms Sale
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christopherm51/ukraine-us-arms-sales
    https://news.antiwar.com/2020/02/06/ukraine-officials-say-us-holding-up-arms-sale/


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:25 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add links)
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:02 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    If just the 3 majority Slavic republics- Russia, Ukraine & Belorussia stayed together, all the hugelosses RF sustained could be avoided.
    In retrospect, those 3 leaders who signed the accord to dissolve the USSR & create the CIS were traitors to their people.
    Ukraine also helped separatist Chechnya & later Georgia against the RF; Chechens & Georgians were participating in the Donbass fighting on the Kiev side ever since, adding to those losses.
    I agree, and even with all the mistakes and sabotage made by the idiot and criminal soviet leadership (in primis Gorbachev and Shevarnadze), when Eltsin, Kravchuk and Shukevich met in December
    1991(the  Belovezha Accords) the situation could have still be salvaged (maybe after only the loss of the 3 baltic countries) if Gorbachev acted quickly and arrested those traitors.

    Any decent head of state could have saved the situation: it did not need particular statesmanship.

    That however did not happen, and Gorbachev was even more a traitor to its own people than Eltsin.

    The big mistake for the Soviet Union was not having good leaders at the beginning of the 80s that were not already with one and half foot in the grave.

    Andropov could have been a very good head of state 10 years before, but when he got the job he was too old, and the people that replaced him where even closer to death.

    Gorbachev probably seemed to be young and energetic, and probably the communist party intelligentsia did not expect him to be a spineless glory seeker  ready to sell his country to the americans and cultivate an antirussian sentiment in the various soviet nations.

    The germs of these problems however layed in the rooth since decades, when Lenin  and trotsky destroyed the Russian empire and created ethnic based states in the border regions. Later they started to emerge after the antistalin canpaign from Krushev (another ukrainian lover)

    Now Russia has to live with the consequences of Gorbachev and Eltsin betrayals and mistakes.
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    Post  Ispan on Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:37 pm

    Hey guys, I will not be free until after tomorrow, but just got a new source of information, the Telegram channels. I copy paste and use Yandex Translator


    Here's a sample report of what's going on the front


    YandexTranslate


    AK APU is trying the position of the LDPR "on the tooth".

    The standard scenario of Ukrainian attacks in recent months in the Donbass looks like this: VSU group numbering about polovskaya (about 12-15 people+ -, sometimes more, given the strength of the cover) is on the cutting edge, often at the junction of the units and people's militia of the LDNR. A fire attack with Arta and 120-mm mortars is being applied to the strongholds of Donbass, driving our soldiers into shelters and dugouts. Two snipers. Under the guise of an assault group trying to cover or directly go to the stronghold of the LDPR.
    In most cases, the attempt fails in view of: 1) the vigilance of the militia, who open fire from several hundred meters on the detected enemy, making him nervous and retreat; 2) the impatience of the attackers, waiting for the" response " of Donbass.
    The retreat after the repulse is accompanied by an attack on their own mines or enemy barriers. There are losses, as a rule, heavy-with separation of limbs and bleeding. Then-an attempt to evacuate their " 200 " and "300". Someone is left in the "gray zone", as it was not once or twice in the LPR and DPR.
    If the losses are serious (for the last 2 months, at least two assault groups of the APU were knocked out more than half), the militia positions are trying to bring down the fire shaft. Like, revenge is like this. The intensity of the raids is as follows: approximately 100 (!) 120-mm min. Plow the field, as it was recently in the southern direction of the DPR positions. The only cure is deep and reliable shelters. Everything that was built by "tyap-lap", "on snot", has already been destroyed and turned into ruins... I had a Chance to visit the support, which was processed two days ago. How people survived is still a mystery to me.
    The enemy is also expanding the use of UAVs. They throw 82-mm mines and homemade weapons at drones, throwing them into trenches and dugouts directly from the air. Moreover, UAVs are working on the positions of the militia in pairs. One kamikaze drone, some slow-moving, already shot through "dead hole-hole". It is allowed below for illumination. It firing our, apart, of strelkovka. The second UAV with mines comes from a height of 300-500 meters and vertically throws mines on the heads of soldiers.
    Such trench warfare. And this is without the details of the sniper war, hunting for headquarters and rear transport…


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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:24 pm

    Thanks. Missed you.
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    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:34 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    If just the 3 majority Slavic republics- Russia, Ukraine & Belorussia stayed together, all the hugelosses RF sustained could be avoided.
    In retrospect, those 3 leaders who signed the accord to dissolve the USSR & create the CIS were traitors to their people.
    Ukraine also helped separatist Chechnya & later Georgia against the RF; Chechens & Georgians were participating in the Donbass fighting on the Kiev side ever since, adding to those losses.
    I agree, and even with all the mistakes and sabotage made by the idiot and criminal soviet leadership (in primis Gorbachev and Shevarnadze), when Eltsin, Kravchuk and Shukevich met in December
    1991(the  Belovezha Accords) the situation could have still be salvaged (maybe after only the loss of the 3 baltic countries) if Gorbachev acted quickly and arrested those traitors.

    Any decent head of state could have saved the situation: it did not need particular statesmanship.

    That however did not happen, and Gorbachev was even more a traitor to its own people than Eltsin.

    The big mistake for the Soviet Union was not having good leaders at the beginning of the 80s that were not already with one and half foot in the grave.

    Andropov could have been a very good head of state 10 years before, but when he got the job he was too old, and the people that replaced him where even closer to death.

    Gorbachev probably seemed to be young and energetic, and probably the communist party intelligentsia did not expect him to be a spineless glory seeker  ready to sell his country to the americans and cultivate an antirussian sentiment in the various soviet nations.

    The germs of these problems however layed in the rooth since decades, when Lenin  and trotsky destroyed the Russian empire and created ethnic based states in the border regions. Later they started to emerge after the antistalin canpaign from Krushev (another ukrainian lover)

    Now Russia has to live with the consequences of Gorbachev and Eltsin betrayals and mistakes.

    I don't buy this simplistic view. Banderastani Ukrs were demented against Russians before 1990. They reflect the centuries of western
    occupation and the war of Catholicism against the Orthodox Church. The idea of having these backstabbers inside Russia is ludicrous.
    They would betray Russia at the drop of a hat in any attack by NATzO.

    When it comes to the Central Asian 'stans, we have more of the same local anti-Russian chauvinism. I know from family experience the
    views of Uzbekhs of Russians. As with Ukr-land, these 3rd world, inferiority complex overcompensation driven dead weights are hardly
    something Russia needs or needed.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:10 am

    If just the 3 majority Slavic republics- Russia, Ukraine & Belorussia stayed together, all the hugelosses RF sustained could be avoided.

    What huge losses?

    The stuff made in Ukraine and Belarus is all Soviet era stuff from factories not upgraded or modernised very much at all... in fact in some cases purposely sabotaged like one shipyard that had modifications to make it useless to handle bigger ships...

    The engines the Ukraine made were not super state of the art brand new models... they were solid reliable tried and tested models for Soviet vehicles... but Russian companies could be built from scratch with new factories and new designers and develop new more powerful, cheaper, better designed models that can be used in new vehicles going forward. There is no advantage to continue to use old antiquated stuff... imagine if Russia continued to use upgraded AT-3 missiles as the short range ATGM instead of Metis or Bulat?

    By upgrading their older stuff they can further improve new designs and systems and of course they own the technology and designs so they can export them to anyone they like without the permission of another country.

    The Russian military was a nice fat soft market for the Ukraine... all those helicopters using their engines and all their new aircraft going to use the same engines... well now Klimov has started making them they are getting more powerful engines... and all the money spent on engines stays in the Russian economy...

    In retrospect, those 3 leaders who signed the accord to dissolve the USSR & create the CIS were traitors to their people.

    Two were... one was a patriot that has saved his country a lot of money and pain.

    Ukraine also helped separatist Chechnya & later Georgia against the RF; Chechens & Georgians were participating in the Donbass fighting on the Kiev side ever since, adding to those losses.

    Which shows what cowardly bastards they are... why would Russia want them as part of their country?

    Those $570B by itself is not a small amount by any stretch, & Russia could use those $ for a lot of better things had she not lost them.

    Yeah, the reduction in revenue from oil forced Russia to diversify, which is ultimately a good thing for Russia... ask Venezuela about not growing your own food and relying on imports... especially when the value of your main export drops to record lows and you can no longer afford to buy all the stuff you used to buy... the sanctions on food from the EU pushed up prices but also created a food industry in Russia that could never have existed otherwise... it is now a significant contributor to the Russian economy and helps protect Russia from further blackmail and bullying because being able to feed itself makes it safer from external threats... which is another good thing for Russia.

    Ukraine Officials Say US Holding Up Arms Sale

    Hahahahahaha... how the mighty have fallen... 20 years ago it would be the Ukraine selling millions of dollars in ammunition to the west, but now they are trying to buy it... seeing what they do with it I say it is good news they are not getting it...

    Russia has joined several economic groups like SCO and BRICS... they would be better to expand those than try to incorporate the Ukraine or Belarus back in to their territory...

    Focus on expanding Russian economic and political power within Russia to make sure everyone benefits and grows and with that improvement in standard of living and quality of life people will move to Russia to find a better place to live... or not... it is fine either way... Russia doesn't need to expand its population, it just needs to look after them as best it can.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:59 am

    From Lavrov interview yesterday. More at link

    Ukraine refused to put on paper a plan concerning the disengagement of forces along the entire line of contact in Donbass because the US had insisted on it, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said in an interview.

    “It’s really not a secret, we know that Ukraine took such a stance at the Normandy Four summit at Washington’s insistence, because the US doesn’t want the Minsk Agreements to be implemented, it doesn’t want security to be ensured on both sides of the line of contact,” he said. “Apparently, it is in the US interest to maintain the conflict in a controlled state in relation to the United States’ plans for the post-Soviet countries,” the Russian top diplomat added.


    https://geopolitics.news/euroasia/sergei-lavrov-russia-worried-over-kievs-statements-about-revision-of-minsk-accords/
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:52 am

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:45 am

    “The owner beats - endure”: how people are trafficked in Ukraine
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:44 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:“The owner beats - endure”: how people are trafficked in Ukraine


    And you think people are not trafficked in Poland and other countries?

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #28 - Page 7 Empty Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #28

    Post  Sponsored content


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