Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    nomadski
    nomadski

    Posts : 614
    Points : 616
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  nomadski on Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:41 pm

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.hurriyetdailynews.com/amp/opinion/serkan-demirtas/astana-partners-should-focus-on-political-transition-in-syria-146348

    Russia can help democracy in Syria. Political help. But who should write constitution?  A murderer?  Someone with no education?  Some foreigners from America? Someone without a name?  Someone from armed group?  Someone without political party? Someone only from political party?  Someone from religious party? Someone without religion? Someone with PhD?

    I would welcome a new topic if allowed by admin. A resource. Members can also put suggestions.  Mods please make new topic if you think it will help.

    I will give a wild suggestion. Not like me, is it?  We have all seen the start of it. The new age. The age of instant communication. The Internet. The city of souls. The city of God. It has already happened. It just needs to be formalised and made secure. Government by Internet. Government by mobile phone. Replace Facebook and twitter. True direct democracy by the people. No political parties necessary. No Parliament building necessary. No professional politicians necessary. Laws made or unmade by people. Huawei give Syrian people 30 million mobile phones. With special software. Syrians all over world make laws. Write constitution......Remember the Arab spring started with mobile phone. But since it was not software organised, it led to Arab winter. Software...............
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22384
    Points : 22928
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:20 am

    Most people don't give a shit or perhaps don't even know anything about laws... you will get people who vote based on one or to things they are interested in... actually having the whole country vote is a bad idea.... first of all because most people wont bother even reading anything about what is being voted for, and others will vote for things they are interested in but wont bother voting about anything else.

    For instance a woman might march for pay equality for women, so for laws involving womens rights you could probably expect them to vote on laws regarding such things, but will she also vote for other things like minority issues or racial issues they they don't effect her?

    Of course she wont.... so in effect the main people who will be voting for things will be the people directly effected by those things one way or another... is that democracy?

    When 20% of the population vote for a law should it still be a law?

    What if 20% of the population vote on an issue... say 12% one way and 8% the other way... should that law go in to effect because we can assume no body else cares?

    If you have thresholds... what if two thirds of the population are elderly and don't know and don't want to know how to vote...

    Plus... being totally digital... what about Russian hackers... which of course is a front for US hackers pretending to be Russian hackers?

    I think it would be a good idea to have a public forum where people could openly debate options and ideas, but I don't think putting your entire electoral system is a good idea let alone your entire political system.
    nomadski
    nomadski

    Posts : 614
    Points : 616
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  nomadski on Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:26 am

    Agree that people may not vote on all issues. Or not vote at all. Or they may not know about some issues. Or they may be too young or old. All these problems are technical problems that have technical answers. These can be addressed by the right software and hardware.

    At the core, the system sub - skeleton can be normal paper ballot box system. For countries without infrastructure or low education level. The difference, in this case, is that this paper system can be designed to be upgraded to paperless system, for more advanced country using a bank or ID card to cast vote. For even  more developed nation that has full Internet,  mobile phone can be used to cast votes.

    In cases where the population does not vote, because of lack of interest or education or war, then normal politics takes over. In other words for some countries, a parallel system set up. If on any issue, the public cast vote in sufficient numbers, then it takes precedence over parliamentary votes.

    The problem of security is real. But people use Internet now for banking and buying food and even arranging medical care. So why not politics? But to make sure no problems come up, parralel secondary redundant system can be set up. In case system collapses or is hacked. Secondary redundant politicians..... I like that!

    Professional politicians may ultimately not exist. This I find very attractive. Since I hate them all. They may be replaced by civil servants who keep the Internet secure and pay programmers to maintain it. Already some Internet sites use algorithms that push topics to the top. Likes or dislikes. Number of hits, etc. These can turn into actual votes on laws.

    Other media can exist, to allow communication. Including sites for political discussions. Papers. TV. Etc. But the actual voting on individual laws is automated by Internet. Cyber world government by the people!
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22384
    Points : 22928
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:38 pm

    Agree that people may not vote on all issues. Or not vote at all. Or they may not know about some issues. Or they may be too young or old. All these problems are technical problems that have technical answers. These can be addressed by the right software and hardware.

    You are missing the point... When was the last time a company had a vote to decide the future of the company?

    Not being snobbish, but most people have got no real idea what they want or the consequences.... some like a social system where everyone is protected... everyone gets access to education and healthcare and a justice system that protects them, others might think minimal government and personal responsibility... from socialism where education and healthcare and the justice system are all state run, to private police and privately owned and run prisons... the latter basically being a modern form of slave labour that you can make a lot of money from... if you can keep your "workforce".

    No two people will agree on everything... so 60 million people means 60 million different opinions and attempts to have their say... it will never work... and to be honest is even more open to hacking and corruption than the existing systems.

    The first time a "vote" does not go the way of the ruling party, they will likely declare it as being an advisory referendum that is not binding and that other considerations that they cannot make public for national security reasons they will have to go the other way... and it will all be for nothing.

    When they do that a few times most people will lose interest... and the vast majority of topics wont be interested in the first place anyway.
    nomadski
    nomadski

    Posts : 614
    Points : 616
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  nomadski on Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:29 pm

    https://www.internetgovernment.org/

    I found this site. Today a five year old knows more than the sages of old. Information is supplied to explain a political position. If this position becomes popular, by number of supports,  then it goes before public vote. The reason some companies are limited by voting is controlled by company law. We can change the law to give everyone a direct vote. I think it can be done. Political parties can still function. But voting is singular and based on individual. People can still vote along party lines. But everybody votes. Like having referendum on every law. I think it will work.

    I do not agree with this site rejecting rule of majority and replacing with " meritocracy". But idea of Internet government by the people is good. Politics becomes everyone's business and nobody's business.
    JohninMK
    JohninMK

    Posts : 6662
    Points : 6729
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:13 pm

    Should this rather esoteric discussion be in this thread?
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22384
    Points : 22928
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:16 am

    What I am trying to say is that ruling a country by majority vote only makes sense sometimes.

    Do you think people should be allowed to walk around in public naked?

    That should not be something decided for us... we as a society need to decide about our own morality and what we find acceptable or not acceptable.

    The complexities of property law... it is probably a bad idea to decide it via a general vote.

    Corruption comes from a government getting advisors from big powerful companies that dominate the market and want to use new laws to enhance their monopoly.

    Governments need advice in specialist subjects but they also need diversity... they need to hear from a minimum of 5 separate unrelated companies... big ones and small ones and medium sized ones so they get a more balanced idea of what needs to be put in place to be fair so that the big companies don't just destroy the small and medium ones.

    Most justice systems also need complete overhauls as they are currently about winning and losing and not about getting to the truth and justice for the victim and the accused. These days in most countries it comes down to how competent the police were in their investigation, and whether you can afford a lawyer that can find their mistakes and get you off.... whether you did it or not... the prosecution doens't care... their job is to get a guilty verdict.
    nomadski
    nomadski

    Posts : 614
    Points : 616
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  nomadski on Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:42 am

    Agree that majority rule only makes sense sometimes. But people have a right to be wrong. That is how they learn. It is far better to let them learn, than to teach them.

    Yes some laws are complex. And changing them has far reaching consequences. But as long as their application is time limited, then they could be reversed, or stopped, before causing irreversible damages. New laws could all be time limited.

    Corruption comes from the evil nature of humanity. It can actualize given the potential opportunity. At least this system of direct voting , removes the potential to misrepresent the interests of others.

    If the interests of a particular class or group are sacrificed to the will of the majority, then  a greater majority can reverse these laws. Such as international laws superceding national laws to protect interests of minority.

    How will the state wither away? When there is no need for specialist workers in statecraft. When there are no politicians or judges or police.  When everyone is the judge and jury and executioner.  The idea of public governance can be extended to the judges and police. We know that a jury is often needed to pass judgement. How about a jury of thousands? On the Internet? Also the public can make citizen's arrest. How about all citizen's having more powers of arrest? How will the future be?

    Why should ever greater majorities with a direct vote, account for a better world? Protection of rights of minorities? If there is evil in all? The answer is that God could have created a world without evil. A perfect world. But a static world. Without motion or change. And God could have created a world of absolute evil. But God created a world of some evil. Or necessary evil. This allowed for a world that achieved perfection and progress. And this it seems was the better world than the others.

    So if evil takes root in some country or society, then this evil can only be limited in scope. A greater majority will outnumber this limited evil and overcome it. That is why greater majority is better and will work.

    Sponsored content

    The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed Empty Re: The Future of Syria in terms of how it will be governed

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:57 am