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    Western propaganda #2

    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:49 am

    GarryB wrote:In fact in the US there is a form of communism except instead of communist party members getting to vote for party leader and getting political positions that can influence policy, the US has rich people and companies that write laws that politicians sign off on that help make rich people richer and companies richer...

    Ironic that the US wanted a reset with Russia... it needs a democracy reset at home.

    That could not be called "communism", Western propaganda tends to falsely label all kinds of party of power as communism and label communism as authoritarian, although in reality communistic society is the only society where power truly belong to the people.

    All kinds of political party aims to get political and governmental positions, especially in the executive branch, because at the moment that is the way to manage and steer the society for the interest of the classes that they represent. Communist Party is the representatives of workers and farmers, and if workers and farmers want to manage the society for their interest, then the Communist Party has to take control of the government either by this way or that way.
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    Post  Regular on Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:59 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    Regular wrote:How would you sterilise whole ethnic group? How anyone would you carry this out?
    China could use this internally and they are very advanced in CRISP and in biotech.

    By programming the virus to alternate DNA of the target to make it infertile.

    We already use it to fight cancer with amazing results.

    Look at Ebola. In the 2014 outbreak...all white patients survived after given the vaccine. It did nit work in blacks though.

    Im quite sure that tests are running.


    I'm dilletante when it comes to biochemistry - that would be my wife's field. I doubt it's that it's an easy task. There are plenty of hurdles to jump not to mention ethical ones too. Maybe in 20-50 years this will be feasible, but only when we will perfect DNA and cell engineering, but then we will risk bioterrorism from nonstate actors.
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    Post  Aristide on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:51 am

    Regular wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    Regular wrote:How would you sterilise whole ethnic group? How anyone would you carry this out?
    China could use this internally and they are very advanced in CRISP and in biotech.

    By programming the virus to alternate DNA of the target to make it infertile.

    We already use it to fight cancer with amazing results.

    Look at Ebola. In the 2014 outbreak...all white patients survived after given the vaccine. It did nit work in blacks though.

    Im quite sure that tests are running.


    I'm dilletante when it comes to biochemistry - that would be my wife's field. I doubt it's that it's an easy task. There are plenty of hurdles to jump not to mention ethical ones too. Maybe in 20-50 years this will be feasible, but only when we will perfect DNA and cell engineering, but then we will risk bioterrorism from nonstate actors.

    I see enormous potential in this technology. Actually its one of the biggest future tec fields.
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    Post  Regular on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:06 pm

    Yes, but ironically it could relegate majority of population to Ubermensch.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:10 pm

    Smug assertions about how western "ingenuity and knowhow" can defeat any problem including turning viruses into bioweapons is
    retarded BS. If all this "ingenuity and knowhow" was really there, then all viral diseases would have cures. Just engineer custom
    antibodies...

    Too bad that today nobody has the technology to custom manufacture arbitrary molecules. All we have is yeast vats where
    the bacterial metabolisms are exploited to produce molecules. This is limited by definition. No industrial chemical technology
    exists to directly manufacture custom molecules.

    But even if hypothetically it was possible to custom engineer antibodies, then that would not solve the problem that only a
    very small number of virus species are "predictable" and stay within the same biochemical framework for sufficiently long periods
    that they can be exterminated. You can't do this with retro-viruses and most viral species. There is a reason for this:
    evolution. Viruses have evolved mutational/adaptive-recombinant (incorporation of DNA/RNA updates from other viruses)
    to survive and prosper.

    Any smartass NATO bioweapons designer has a problem. The viruses that can be used to target some set of specific cell
    markers are the ones that are also easiest to defeat via vaccines. The ones that are hardest to fight against are the
    ones that will mutate rapidly to attack the NATO retard that designed them. I suspect that NATO retards were inspired
    by HIV and concluded that if Russians have distinctive cell markers from NATO ubermenschen, then they just need to
    engineer an HIV variant that only attacks those unique markers. Here again, these retards should have gone back to
    school and obtained a proper education. HIV fails to work in less than 1% of humans because of large structural
    defects that happen to coincide with the HIV target. There are no such differences between the vast majority
    of NATO ubermenchen and Russian untermenschen. The whole premise of a genetic bioweapon is genocide and not
    elimination of a few percent.

    It should be highlighted that no virus reads the DNA of the host. It only sees molecular structures on cell walls that
    it targets. And here is the failure point of the whole demented enterprise. At this scale there is zero difference
    between most of the population of NATO and Russia. There is no unique molecule or cell structure for a bioweapon
    virus to target. This aspect is clearly not understood by racist swine who engage in wishful thinking that differences
    between the master race and the ubermenschen extend to the molecular composition of cells.

    https://courses.lumenlearning.com/wm-readinganthology/chapter/teaching-diversity-the-science-you-need-to-know-to-explain-why-race-is-not-biological/

    https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/analysis-of-racial-variations-in-disease-characteristics-treatmen

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/oct/28/thisweekssciencequestions.weaponstechnology

    Others say the concerns are exaggerated. "Trying to find a weapon that affects quite a few of one ethnic group and none
    of another ethnic group is just not going to happen," says David Goldstein, who studies population genetics at University College London.
    "Because all groups are quite similar you will never get something that is highly selective. The best you would probably do is something
    that kills 20% of one group and 28% of another."

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    Post  Aristide on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:53 pm

    kvs wrote:Smug assertions about how western "ingenuity and knowhow" can defeat any problem including turning viruses into bioweapons is
    retarded BS.   If all this "ingenuity and knowhow" was really there, then all viral diseases would have cures.   Just engineer custom
    antibodies...  

    Too bad that today nobody has the technology to custom manufacture arbitrary molecules.   All we have is yeast vats where
    the bacterial metabolisms are exploited to produce molecules.   This is limited by definition.   No industrial chemical technology
    exists to directly manufacture custom molecules.  

    But even if hypothetically it was possible to custom engineer antibodies, then that would not solve the problem that only a
    very small number of virus species are "predictable" and stay within the same biochemical framework for sufficiently long periods
    that they can be exterminated.   You can't do this with retro-viruses and most viral species.   There is a reason for this:
    evolution.   Viruses have evolved mutational/adaptive-recombinant (incorporation of DNA/RNA updates from other viruses)
    to survive and prosper.  

    Any smartass NATO bioweapons designer has a problem.  The viruses that can be used to target some set of specific cell
    markers are the ones that are also easiest to defeat via vaccines.    The ones that are hardest to fight against are the
    ones that will mutate rapidly to attack the NATO retard that designed them.   I suspect that NATO retards were inspired
    by HIV and concluded that if Russians have distinctive cell markers from NATO ubermenschen, then they just need to
    engineer an HIV variant that only attacks those unique markers.   Here again, these retards should have gone back to
    school and obtained a proper education.    HIV fails to work in less than 1% of humans because of large structural
    defects that happen to coincide with the HIV target.    There are no such differences between the vast majority
    of NATO ubermenchen and Russian untermenschen.   The whole premise of a genetic bioweapon is genocide and not
    elimination of a few percent.    

    It should be highlighted that no virus reads the DNA of the host.   It only sees molecular structures on cell walls that
    it targets.   And here is the failure point of the whole demented enterprise.   At this scale there is zero difference
    between most of the population of NATO and Russia.    There is no unique molecule or cell structure for a bioweapon
    virus to target.   This aspect is clearly not understood by racist swine who engage in wishful thinking that differences
    between the master race and the ubermenschen extend to the molecular composition of cells.

    https://courses.lumenlearning.com/wm-readinganthology/chapter/teaching-diversity-the-science-you-need-to-know-to-explain-why-race-is-not-biological/

    https://mayoclinic.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/analysis-of-racial-variations-in-disease-characteristics-treatmen

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/oct/28/thisweekssciencequestions.weaponstechnology

    Others say the concerns are exaggerated. "Trying to find a weapon that affects quite a few of one ethnic group and none
    of another ethnic group is just not going to happen," says David Goldstein, who studies population genetics at University College London.
    "Because all groups are quite similar you will never get something that is highly selective. The best you would probably do is something
    that kills 20% of one group and 28% of another."

     

    I believe thats the core difference between France (West in general) and East.

    We always strike for more. We believe evrything is possible for us. We have great selfesteem and we usually reach what we want.

    Thats the reason why we colonized the world. We are extroverted.


    I think russian culture is far more introverted and less positive.

    Nothing bad about that. It needs both.
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:41 am

    https://time.com/5629291/dueling-superpowers-rival-billionaires-inside-the-new-race-to-the-moon/

    Hillarious, delusional propaganda from Time.

    China has launched 3 manned rockets over the same period that Russia launched 30 and the USA launched zero.
    These private companies are nowhere near any manned mission let alone Moon or Mars missions. The ridiculous
    consignment of Russia in this field to "not worthy of mention" is beyond delusional. This is nothing more than
    "journalism for hire" by the corporate interests that own America. The same quality reporting one had in Russia
    during the 1990s and Ukraine today.

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    Post  Regular on Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:34 am

    Aristide wrote:

    I believe thats the core difference between France (West in general) and East.

    We always strike for more. We believe evrything is possible for us. We have great selfesteem and we usually reach what we want.

    Thats the reason why we colonized the world. We are extroverted.


    It is far more introverted and less positive.

    Nothing bad about that. It needs both.

    It's funny to read that as I know that you can't be more wrong but I understand why you see Russia in that way. I expected that as a westerner - frenchman you should know the connection Russia had and still has with your country.


    Russians joined cultural European family after Peter The Great reforms.
    First it was mere imitation of everything European, but soon Russia gave it's own input towards Western Englightment.
    Great expansion, settlements in American continent, exploration of Far East can't be attributed to introvert mindset.
    Desire for Greatness was what made Russia big as what it is now. Subjugation, integration and Englightment of aboriginal tribes was manifest of Russian extrovert nature.

    Now for French connection- At the time when French language was dominant in Europe and Russian church didn't use Latin so Russian aristocracy gravitated towards then popular, modern French language. Later French revolution brought around 15000 French emigrees to Russia who earned admiration by serving the Czar by joining the elite, military and eventually ruling as nobility. Unlike refugees of today, Russia received best of what France could offer. True patriots of France who were exiled, but never lost love for their country- just like Armand-Emmanuel Richelieu. If I remember correctly-  father of Russian ballet was French too. This means that Russian ideals were modelled after French ones and to a degree they were compatible. Even after Napaleon Russia didn't completely loose it's connection with France.
    But at this time it was Russia that was experiencing it's second Golden Age and French language was replaced by Russian even among aristocracy. War with Napaleon helped to mobilise Russians and it created pride, joy and admiration of their own culture. At this point Russia already could pick fruits of arts and science, no longer it needed helping hand and Russia finally had it's own heroes - Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Stanislavsky, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Repin, Levitan, Kramskoy, Serov and probably best known for westerners -  Pushkin (Wrote in Russian, but still spoke french with women like a true kavaler ), Tolstoy ( He is "guilty" of using French language in his greatest works too) and many more. At the time Russia was also at greatest size as well!
    Decambrist exile could be used as a great example of Russian extrovert nature as well - Russian military in Siberian exile went through the hardships and became successful settlers and eventually helped spread emancipation to aboriginals and helped to reform Russia.

    Say what ever about Russian empire, but it's decline was human catastrophy as it brought early communist experiments. They were not kind for Russians and their "soul", but it was never extinguished. Communism was especially damaging due to disgenic practices-  it promoted averages and the not the best of society. What Russia lost in humanitarian art- they regained in physics, chemistry and biology (only after retarded Lysenkoism) as scientific environment was very competitive in Soviet Union and competition breeds the best.

    What I am trying to say, that these same ideals apply for Russia as well as examples show. Russia doesn't have asian mentality - it has European one. Russians even with mongols are Europeans same as French are Europeans with all these Africans on Paris streets. Sadly now being called European invokes images of Globohomo ideology, American bootlicking and AFAIK, demographic catastrophy. I wouldn't be so optimistic about France or Europe as a whole too.

    Now Russia is not under iron curtain, Moscow might be full of always in hurry bugmen introverts who only care how to fill their pockets with money or spend it in decadent manner. Even as introverts, Muscovites are very driven people who are shaped by very competitive environment to achieved highest results. No one wants to be an office plankton there and especially if you want to get good woman you have to look and earn good. Then you have Saint Petersburg (This city has French connection too) where culture, arts and relaxed life is preferred. People are more extrovert, yet due to environment they tend to prefer personal life rather endless development.

    Ps. Even with isolationism - Italian and French movies were very popular in Soviet Union back in the days - especially comedies and we found French and Italian humour very close to our mentality. Louis de Funès, Belmondo, Delon, Depardieu and other 70s-80s actors from different genres were loved in Soviet Union. French movies had best car chases and action flicks. Both of my parents speak French as well as German and French were most popular, but Germans were shit at music and movies and still are to this day (0 cultural influence)
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:14 am

    Regular wrote:
    Aristide wrote:

    I believe thats the core difference between France (West in general) and East.

    We always strike for more. We believe evrything is possible for us. We have great selfesteem and we usually reach what we want.

    Thats the reason why we colonized the world. We are extroverted.


    It is far more introverted and less positive.

    Nothing bad about that. It needs both.

    It's funny to read that as I know that you can't be more wrong but I understand why you see Russia in that way. I expected that as a westerner - frenchman you should know the connection Russia had and still has with your country.


    Russians joined cultural European family after Peter The Great reforms.
    First it was mere imitation of everything European, but soon Russia gave it's own input towards Western Englightment.
    Great expansion, settlements in American continent, exploration of Far East can't be attributed to introvert mindset.
    Desire for Greatness was what made Russia big as what it is now. Subjugation, integration and Englightment of aboriginal tribes was manifest of Russian extrovert nature.

    Now for French connection- At the time when French language was dominant in Europe and Russian church didn't use Latin so Russian aristocracy gravitated towards then popular, modern French language. Later French revolution brought around 15000 French emigrees to Russia who earned admiration by serving the Czar by joining the elite, military and eventually ruling as nobility. Unlike refugees of today, Russia received best of what France could offer. True patriots of France who were exiled, but never lost love for their country- just like Armand-Emmanuel Richelieu. If I remember correctly-  father of Russian ballet was French too. This means that Russian ideals were modelled after French ones and to a degree they were compatible. Even after Napaleon Russia didn't completely loose it's connection with France.
    But at this time it was Russia that was experiencing it's second Golden Age and French language was replaced by Russian even among aristocracy. War with Napaleon helped to mobilise Russians and it created pride, joy and admiration of their own culture. At this point Russia already could pick fruits of arts and science, no longer it needed helping hand and Russia finally had it's own heroes - Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Stanislavsky, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Repin, Levitan, Kramskoy, Serov and probably best known for westerners -  Pushkin (Wrote in Russian, but still spoke french with women like a true kavaler ), Tolstoy ( He is "guilty" of using French language in his greatest works too) and many more. At the time Russia was also at greatest size as well!
    Decambrist exile could be used as a great example of Russian extrovert nature as well - Russian military in Siberian exile went through the hardships and became successful settlers and eventually helped spread emancipation to aboriginals and helped to reform Russia.

    Say what ever about Russian empire, but it's decline was human catastrophy as it brought early communist experiments. They were not kind for Russians and their "soul", but it was never extinguished. Communism was especially damaging due to disgenic practices-  it promoted averages and the not the best of society. What Russia lost in humanitarian art- they regained in physics, chemistry and biology (only after retarded Lysenkoism) as scientific environment was very competitive in Soviet Union and competition breeds the best.

    What I am trying to say, that these same ideals apply for Russia as well as examples show. Russia doesn't have asian mentality - it has European one. Russians even with mongols are Europeans same as French are Europeans with all these Africans on Paris streets. Sadly now being called European invokes images of Globohomo ideology, American bootlicking and AFAIK, demographic catastrophy. I wouldn't be so optimistic about France or Europe as a whole too.

    Now Russia is not under iron curtain, Moscow might be full of always in hurry bugmen introverts who only care how to fill their pockets with money or spend it in decadent manner. Even as introverts, Muscovites are very driven people who are shaped by very competitive environment to achieved highest results. No one wants to be an office plankton there and especially if you want to get good woman you have to look and earn good. Then you have Saint Petersburg (This city has French connection too) where culture, arts and relaxed life is preferred. People are more extrovert, yet due to environment they tend to prefer personal life rather endless development.

    Ps. Even with isolationism - Italian and French movies were very popular in Soviet Union back in the days - especially comedies and we found French and Italian humour very close to our mentality. Louis de Funès, Belmondo, Delon, Depardieu and other 70s-80s actors from different genres were loved in Soviet Union. French movies had best car chases and action flicks. Both of my parents speak French as well as German and French were most popular, but Germans were shit at music and movies and still are to this day (0 cultural influence)

    I think most bad renomee of russia in France is because USSR. I think russia cant be blamed for it. Communism brings evry nation down. Look how Mao butchered chinese culture.

    Are you from russia?
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:30 am

    kvs wrote:https://time.com/5629291/dueling-superpowers-rival-billionaires-inside-the-new-race-to-the-moon/

    Hillarious, delusional propaganda from Time.

    China has launched 3 manned rockets over the same period that Russia launched 30 and the USA launched zero.
    These private companies are nowhere near any manned mission let alone Moon or Mars missions.   The ridiculous
    consignment of Russia in this field to "not worthy of mention" is beyond delusional.   This is nothing more than
    "journalism for hire" by the corporate interests that own America.   The same quality reporting one had in Russia
    during the 1990s and Ukraine today.

    The US's self-proclaimed "victory" in lunar race is completely bullshit, even if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real.

    The Soviet Union managed to launched Lunakhods on the Moon and did meaningful researches there. The achievements and operations of Lunakhods are on a complete different level in comparison with Apollo, In Apollo, we see a man brutally and un-scientifically dig up the soils on the moon surface, he completely disrupted the soil structure on the moon. Lunakhods never did such stupid things. We already know that soil samples collection follows a different protocol, the purpose is the preserving soil structure as much as possible.

    Yes, USSR Lunakhods are for something meaningful, not a political show-off like the Apollos. And I say "if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real", which means whether the US really went to the Moon is questionable.
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:57 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    kvs wrote:https://time.com/5629291/dueling-superpowers-rival-billionaires-inside-the-new-race-to-the-moon/

    Hillarious, delusional propaganda from Time.

    China has launched 3 manned rockets over the same period that Russia launched 30 and the USA launched zero.
    These private companies are nowhere near any manned mission let alone Moon or Mars missions.   The ridiculous
    consignment of Russia in this field to "not worthy of mention" is beyond delusional.   This is nothing more than
    "journalism for hire" by the corporate interests that own America.   The same quality reporting one had in Russia
    during the 1990s and Ukraine today.

    The US's self-proclaimed "victory" in lunar race is completely bullshit, even if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real.

    The Soviet Union managed to launched Lunakhods on the Moon and did meaningful researches there. The achievements and operations of Lunakhods are on a complete different level in comparison with Apollo, In Apollo, we see a man brutally and un-scientifically dig up the soils on the moon surface, he completely disrupted the soil structure on the moon. Lunakhods never did such stupid things. We already know that soil samples collection follows a different protocol, the purpose is the preserving soil structure as much as possible.

    Yes, USSR Lunakhods are for something meaningful, not a political show-off like the Apollos. And I say "if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real", which means whether the US really went to the Moon is questionable.

    The astronauts placed mirrors on the moon which we still use to meassure distance. We also can see their equipment and even wheels of the lunar vehicles.

    So with all rsepct...are you saying nations like France, UK, USSR ect did not follow evry step on those flights?

    The moon landings are a historic fact.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:30 pm

    Regular wrote:Say what ever about Russian empire, but it's decline was human catastrophy as it brought early communist experiments. They were not kind for Russians and their "soul", but it was never extinguished. Communism was especially damaging due to disgenic practices-  it promoted averages and the not the best of society. What Russia lost in humanitarian art- they regained in physics, chemistry and biology (only after retarded Lysenkoism) as scientific environment was very competitive in Soviet Union and competition breeds the best.

    Communism promotes the best of all individuals in the society, not restrict that best in a self-proclaimed "elite" minority in the society.

    "Not promoting the best" is a stupid Western propaganda, the self-proclaim elites in Western society wants to keep their privileged social position and do not want to serve the mass which they consider as "stupid", "ignorant", "filthy". "Promoting the best", "meritocracy" actually an effort to keep the privileged position for these "elite" and separate intelligentsia from working force. These "elite" intelligentsia deny the ability to be educated of the mass and don't want the mass to be as educated as them, because that threaten their privileged position.

    The key for development of a society is not promoting the best, but spread the knowledge and skills to the whole population so that the mass can take part in a more complex and more productive manufacturing process, and each individual of that mass can enjoy a better share thanks to manufacturing growth so that the individual has the incentive to contribute more to the growth of the economy and society.

    Russian Empire at the end of its life had a huge number of illiterate peasants, a backward industry and a corrupted, pro-West ruling aristocrat, you have to understand that the manufacture of Mosin rifles at that that were mostly carried out in foreign factories and domestic factories like Tula were underfunded. But then the Revolution came, and Soviet Union transformed into a superpower with developed industry and atomic bomb, and a large number of citizens who enjoyed higher education.

    You can say whatever about Russia-ness of the Tsarist regime, but that could not help as it performed poorly in WW1. On the other hand, the Soviet Union marched to Berlin and raised their red flag there.

    Russia-ness didn't help unless it was attached to the interest of the ones who feed this society, that is the working class. And actually, Russian identity has been formed by the commoners who form the bulk of the population, not the self-proclaimed "elites" who are actually the most Westernized ones.


    Last edited by higurashihougi on Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:35 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Regular wrote:Say what ever about Russian empire, but it's decline was human catastrophy as it brought early communist experiments. They were not kind for Russians and their "soul", but it was never extinguished. Communism was especially damaging due to disgenic practices-  it promoted averages and the not the best of society. What Russia lost in humanitarian art- they regained in physics, chemistry and biology (only after retarded Lysenkoism) as scientific environment was very competitive in Soviet Union and competition breeds the best.

    Communism promotes the best of all individuals in the society, not restrict that best in a self-proclaimed "elite" minority in the society.

    "Not promoting the best" is a stupid Western propaganda, the self-proclaim elites in Western society wants to keep their privileged social position and do not want to serve the mass which they consider as "stupid", "ignorant", "filthy". "Promoting the best", "meritocracy" actually an effort to keep the privileged position for these "elite" and separate intelligentsia from working force. These "elite" intelligentsia deny the ability to be educated of the mass and don't want the mass to be as educated as them, because that threaten their privileged position.

    The key for development of a society is not promoting the best, but spread the knowledge and skills to the whole population so that the mass can take part in a more complex and more productive manufacturing process, and each individual of that mass can enjoy a better share thanks to manufacturing growth so that the individual has the incentive to contribute more to the growth of the economy and society.

    Russian Empire at the end of its life had a huge number of illiterate peasants, a backward industry and a corrupted, pro-West ruling aristocrat, you have to understand that the manufacture of Mosin rifles at that that were mostly carried out in foreign factories and domestic factories like Tula were underfunded. But then the Revolution came, and Soviet Union transformed into a superpower with developed industry and atomic bomb, and a large number of citizens who enjoyed higher education.

    You can say whatever about Russia-ness of the Tsarist regime, but that could not help as it performed poorly in WW1. On the other hand, the Soviet Union marched to Berlin and raised their red flag there.

    Russia-ness didn't help unless it was attached to the interest of the ones who feed this society, that is the working class.

    All communist countries are always hellholes and only get better when communism is get rid off. Thats a simple fact. I could never imagine to live under commuhism, losing my freedom and independence. A communist society can only held alive through terror.
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    Post  Regular on Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:41 pm

    Aristide wrote:

    I think most bad renomee of russia in France is because USSR. I think russia cant be blamed for it. Communism brings evry nation down. Look how Mao butchered chinese culture.

    Are you from russia?
    I'm from Lithuania, half Russian on mother side. I was born in Soviet Union and seen it falling apart.
    I admit that it had positives. This is what I remember- Soviet Union was very tidy, all services were running great. Playgrounds, parks, schools, universities, canteens, factories. It was very safe, militsia was respected, didn't go overboard, life was on easy mode. Even with shortages, our table was always full of food and my parents weren't best earning at the time, but we could afford holidays and all necessities.

    As far as I remember military personnel wages were bloated compared to rest. Top generals were earning up to 20,000 roubles per month. Can you imagine earning roughly 35,000 USD of late 80s and that would convert to 80,000 usd of today.
    What can you do with the money if everything is shortage?
    You could buy property as flats cost roughly 5000-10000 roubles. And cars. Soviet union had it's millionaires - music artists, book writers too.
    This is example why communism doesn't actually work that way as it was still mirroring capitalism with communist fasade.

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    Not to mention penthouses in Jurmala and Baltics built in Reserves illegally. Late 80s in Soviet Union was already building foundation to rise of Oligarchy.
    As you can see, everyone was equal, but some were more equal than others.


    I agree why simple people still miss Soviet as 90s was such downgrade in all aspects..
    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:59 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:

    Communism promotes the best of all individuals in the society, not restrict that best in a self-proclaimed "elite" minority in the society.

    Hahaha, are you sure? Communist societies did have elite. This was politburo, important party members, generals, engineers, scientists. They were much better off than rest of the people. Have you seen dachas in Crimea and Latvia?
    VHS and colour TVs were only available for few.

    Also, I don't you you know about promotion of individuals in Soviet Union. It was through connections rather achievements. Ask anyone who grew up in Soviet Union how you can get in sweet positions with great rewards. Western movies get it wrong- they show that fanatical communism was main thing - nope, it was all connections and self interest.

    "
    Not promoting the best" is a stupid Western propaganda, the self-proclaim elites in Western society wants to keep their privileged social position and do not want to serve the mass which they consider as "stupid", "ignorant", "filthy". "Promoting the best", "meritocracy" actually an effort to keep the privileged position for these "elite" and separate intelligentsia from working force. These "elite" intelligentsia deny the ability to be educated of the mass and don't want the mass to be as educated as them, because that threaten their privileged position.

    Yes, like Tsarist elite stopped Dostoevsky, Chaikovsky?

    Majority of people are just that - statists. They like stupid sports, stupid TV shows and only care about sex, food and drink. North Korea or America, averages are generally the same. Do you think you are interested in military and other things you like because of education or just your curious nature?
    I agree that general education is a good thing, but don't pretend it's forge of intellectuals.

    The key for development of a society is not promoting the best, but spread the knowledge and skills to the whole population so that the mass can take part in a more complex and more productive manufacturing process, and each individual of that mass can enjoy a better share thanks to manufacturing growth so that the individual has the incentive to contribute more to the growth of the economy and society.
    Sure, but wasn't Soviet education very specific and targeted not a whole population, hence schools/prof schools and universities? Some nations like kavkazoids and uzbeks had no access to most education that was accessible to Muscovites, nor do they needed as generally they were far less intelligent people.

    Russian Empire at the end of its life had a huge number of illiterate peasants, a backward industry and a corrupted, pro-West ruling aristocrat, you have to understand that the manufacture of Mosin rifles at that that were mostly carried out in foreign factories and domestic factories like Tula were underfunded.
    Yet even with failures of Tsar Russia was one of the biggest economies in the world and it was going through it's industrial revolution. Most of the peasants even in west were illeterate too, except for few nations.

    But then the Revolution came, and Soviet Union transformed into a superpower with developed industry and atomic bomb, and a large number of citizens who enjoyed higher education
    It wasn't easy transformation, plenty of failed dead ends and own Russian villager skulls had to crushed more than once to help the progress (With fucking Latvian communist hands ofcourse) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambov_Rebellion

    Putin said it that even if he likes ideals of communism it was implemented with greatest repressions and brutuality


    US transformed itself from cowboy shithole to superpower at same time, it had nothing to do with communism, but technologic advance in agriculture and industry. And Tsarist Russia was advancing faster than most of the countries too.
    What would have stopped that?

    Russia lost it's vast gold reserves and Finland, Baltics, Poland and dwarfed under communism.
    Tsar had to be overthrown, but communism should have never taken over Russia in such form as Lenin and his jewish deviants did. Russia should have had similar government of today- balanced in power.

    You can say whatever about Russia-ness of the Tsarist regime, but that could not help as it performed poorly in WW1. On the other hand, the Soviet Union marched to Berlin and raised their red flag there.
    Russians performed very very well in Brusilov charge. It gave birth to Blitzkrieg. But thanks to Tsar Russia gave up. This was biggest mistake and it's mentioned by Putin in video I've posted above.

    Russia-ness didn't help unless it was attached to the interest of the ones who feed this society, that is the working class. And actually, Russian identity has been formed by the commoners who form the bulk of the population, not the self-proclaimed "elites" who are actually the most Westernized ones.
    Russia-ness helped to defeat Mongols, Teutons, Turkish, French and many other enemies of Russia. Communism created Ukraine and other monstrosities. Guess who created Ukrainian alphabet and grammar to counter so called - Russian chauvinism?

    Please stop simplifying comunism as good or evil. It wasn't hellhole, but it wasn't heaven on earth as well. Stagnation and shit leadership was SAME EXACT cause that destroyed Russian Empire. Last Tsar was Gorbochev. He might be good person, but weak and unfit ruler. Now imagine how would Russia look now if Medvedev stayed in power from 2008 to today.


    My opinion about Soviet Union is similar to Putins - Кто не жалеет о распаде СССР, у того нет сердца. А у того, кто хочет его восстановления в прежнем виде, у того нет головы.
    Who doesn't miss Soviet Union has no hearth, who wants it back has no brain.
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:51 pm

    Regular wrote:
    Aristide wrote:

    I think most bad renomee of russia in France is because USSR. I think russia cant be blamed for it. Communism brings evry nation down. Look how Mao butchered chinese culture.

    Are you from russia?
    I'm from Lithuania, half Russian on mother side. I was born in Soviet Union and seen it falling apart.
    I admit that it had positives. This is what I remember- Soviet Union was very tidy, all services were running great. Playgrounds, parks, schools, universities, canteens, factories. It was very safe, militsia was respected, didn't go overboard, life was on easy mode. Even with shortages, our table was always full of food and my parents weren't best earning at the time, but we could afford holidays and all necessities.

    As far as I remember military personnel wages were bloated compared to rest. Top generals were earning up to 20,000 roubles per month. Can you imagine earning roughly 35,000 USD of late 80s and that would convert to 80,000 usd of today.
    What can you do with the money if everything is shortage?
    You could buy property as flats cost roughly 5000-10000 roubles. And cars. Soviet union had it's millionaires - music artists, book writers too.
    This is example why communism doesn't actually work that way as it was still mirroring capitalism with communist fasade.

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    Not to mention penthouses in Jurmala and Baltics built in Reserves illegally. Late 80s in Soviet Union was already building foundation to rise of Oligarchy.
    As you can see, everyone was equal, but some were more equal than others.


    I agree why simple people still miss Soviet as 90s was such downgrade in all aspects..

    Thank you very much for your insight. We learn almost nothing from you guys side of the iron curtain in school and France was the only country in West that had relative normal relations to the east even during cold war.

    I think Russia under the Czar did progress. The problem was its Czar was a very weak leader. I would not say an evol person but weak. Like our king Louis XVI. He was a good man, he realy was. But a weak king.

    France had its own experience with communism, even so it was shortlived.

    I dont know what they teach you guys about the french revolution, but it quickly turned into a monstrosity.

    Under Robespierre, they did not only kill the royal family (like in Russia), they started to destroy french culture. They wanted rip down the cathedrals like Notre Dame. Their killing knew no limits.

    They murdered tenthousands in such a short time. They murdered evryone, no matter what class. It was enough to have been a maid at a elite house to lose your head.

    This terror was shortlived, because Robespierre went in overdrive and when even his followers had to fear execution...they executed Robespierre. The Revolution ate its own children.

    Napoleon then was able to erase this quickly and bring back stability. Napoleon had his weak sides, but in that France must be eternal grateful.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:30 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    kvs wrote:https://time.com/5629291/dueling-superpowers-rival-billionaires-inside-the-new-race-to-the-moon/

    Hillarious, delusional propaganda from Time.

    China has launched 3 manned rockets over the same period that Russia launched 30 and the USA launched zero.
    These private companies are nowhere near any manned mission let alone Moon or Mars missions.   The ridiculous
    consignment of Russia in this field to "not worthy of mention" is beyond delusional.   This is nothing more than
    "journalism for hire" by the corporate interests that own America.   The same quality reporting one had in Russia
    during the 1990s and Ukraine today.

    The US's self-proclaimed "victory" in lunar race is completely bullshit, even if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real.

    The Soviet Union managed to launched Lunakhods on the Moon and did meaningful researches there. The achievements and operations of Lunakhods are on a complete different level in comparison with Apollo, In Apollo, we see a man brutally and un-scientifically dig up the soils on the moon surface, he completely disrupted the soil structure on the moon. Lunakhods never did such stupid things. We already know that soil samples collection follows a different protocol, the purpose is the preserving soil structure as much as possible.

    Yes, USSR Lunakhods are for something meaningful, not a political show-off like the Apollos. And I say "if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real", which means whether the US really went to the Moon is questionable.

    That is a good point. Fake staged sample gathering and retarded "Moon buggy" rides are propaganda theater. Anyone who thinks that
    US astronauts actually rode the Moon buggy on the lunar surface are deluded. Look at all the video of the dust being launched from
    by the tires. It is behaving exactly like it would on Earth in terms of the height reached and range of travel away from launch point.
    But the Moon has 1/6 the gravity so this is utter nonsense. Think of the dust particles as being cannon balls launched with an initial
    velocity (v) with angle (theta) by the rotation of the tires (the weight of the buggy is not the primary aspect, it serves to help the wheels
    scoop the dust/soil). The peak height and range (R) of travel would basically scale with the gravity:

    h = [v sin(theta)]^2/(2 g)

    R = (4 h)/tan(theta)

    h is six times greater if g is six times smaller. The Moon buggy would be producing a dust plume several meters above the ground and
    six times farther away from the launch point than in any of the videos we see. There is also no air resistance on the Moon, so there
    would be no turbulence of the dust after launch by the wheels. Also the bouncing of the Moon buggy as it drove over the surface would
    be six times greater as well instead we see Earth-like bounce given the same vehicle speed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cKpzp358F4

    You can see in the video the fallout speed of the dust. It should take six times longer for the dust to fall back to the surface than on
    Earth. This is regardless of the mass of the dust particles. I am not seeing order of magnitude slower fallout speed.

    BTW, the tight wheel covers clearly do not completely stop dust ejection so they do not impact the discussion.

    To preempt the retarded knee-jerk tinfoil hat accusers, I think that it was possible for the US astronauts to reach and land on the
    Moon. The technology was there and so was the know-how. But there are just too many fake NASA lunar surface photos and
    videos. I think they never pranced around the surface and drove buggies there. But such things are what the proles expect
    from quality propaganda so they just faked these aspects. Propaganda is all about blending truth with fiction to spin a narrative.



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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:43 pm

    kvs wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:
    kvs wrote:https://time.com/5629291/dueling-superpowers-rival-billionaires-inside-the-new-race-to-the-moon/

    Hillarious, delusional propaganda from Time.

    China has launched 3 manned rockets over the same period that Russia launched 30 and the USA launched zero.
    These private companies are nowhere near any manned mission let alone Moon or Mars missions.   The ridiculous
    consignment of Russia in this field to "not worthy of mention" is beyond delusional.   This is nothing more than
    "journalism for hire" by the corporate interests that own America.   The same quality reporting one had in Russia
    during the 1990s and Ukraine today.

    The US's self-proclaimed "victory" in lunar race is completely bullshit, even if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real.

    The Soviet Union managed to launched Lunakhods on the Moon and did meaningful researches there. The achievements and operations of Lunakhods are on a complete different level in comparison with Apollo, In Apollo, we see a man brutally and un-scientifically dig up the soils on the moon surface, he completely disrupted the soil structure on the moon. Lunakhods never did such stupid things. We already know that soil samples collection follows a different protocol, the purpose is the preserving soil structure as much as possible.

    Yes, USSR Lunakhods are for something meaningful, not a political show-off like the Apollos. And I say "if we happen to believe that the Moon Landing is real", which means whether the US really went to the Moon is questionable.

    That is a good point.  Fake staged sample gathering and retarded "Moon buggy" rides are propaganda theater.   Anyone who thinks that
    US astronauts actually rode the Moon buggy on the lunar surface are deluded.   Look at all the video of the dust being launched from
    by the tires.   It is behaving exactly like it would on Earth in terms of the height reached and range of travel away from launch point.
    But the Moon has 1/6 the gravity so this is utter nonsense.   Think of the dust particles as being cannon balls launched with an initial
    velocity (v) with angle (theta) by the rotation of the tires (the weight of the buggy is not the primary aspect, it serves to help the wheels
    scoop the dust/soil).  The peak height and range (R) of travel would basically scale with the gravity:

    h = [v sin(theta)]^2/(2 g)

    R = (4 h)/tan(theta)

    h is six times greater if g is six times smaller.    The Moon buggy would be producing a dust plume several meters above the ground and
    six times farther away from the launch point than in any of the videos we see.    There is also no air resistance on the Moon, so there
    would be no turbulence of the dust after launch by the wheels.   Also the bouncing of the Moon buggy as it drove over the surface would
    be six times greater as well instead we see Earth-like bounce given the same vehicle speed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cKpzp358F4

    You can see in the video the fallout speed of the dust.  It should take six times longer for the dust to fall back to the surface than on
    Earth.  This is regardless of the mass of the dust particles.   I am not seeing order of magnitude slower fallout speed.

    BTW, the tight wheel covers clearly do not completely stop dust ejection so they do not impact the discussion.  

    To preempt the retarded knee-jerk tinfoil hat accusers, I think that it was possible for the US astronauts to reach and land on the
    Moon.  The technology was there and so was the know-how.   But there are just too many fake NASA lunar surface photos and
    videos.   I think they never pranced around the surface and drove buggies there.   But such things are what the proles expect
    from quality propaganda so they just faked these aspects.    Propaganda is all about blending truth with fiction to spin a narrative.




    We can see the drive on the moon with the ESA space telescope. You see the trackways

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:46 pm

    Oh my the old "They never landed on the moon" Stick Jesus, are you guys that blinded by your hatred you are now in the conspiracy theory market. Though I expect this from KVS, if we say the Color Green is Green he would say it's really yellow.

    I don't really feel like posting tons of links regarding this subject but here is one that will do.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/06/25/yes-the-apollo-moon-landings-really-did-happen/#7767dd016a8f


    Yes the moon landing really happened, go ask scientists and real ones btw. It's a joke you guys are ranting about this. What's next the US government is secretly controlled by space bugs?, oh maybe Atlantis was an inside job.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:24 pm

    Regular wrote:Hahaha, are you sure? Communist societies did have elite. This was politburo, important party members, generals, engineers, scientists. They were much better off than rest of the people. Have you seen dachas in Crimea and Latvia?
    VHS and colour TVs were only available for few.

    Your twisted understanding of communism came from the simplified thinking of "USSR = communism".

    First and foremost, USSR never claimed that it reached communism. Except for a very short period when a certain mental patient named Khruschyov claimed that he could built communism in 20 years, none of the Soviet leaders claimed that they finished socialist stage to reach communist stage.

    You can reach the official Party documents for verification, as you have better condition of approaching Russian documents than me.

    The USSR and allies called themselves Socialist Bloc, not Communist Bloc.

    Second, after the dead of Stalin, the USSR deviated further and further from socialism and communism, due to the rise of "privileged class" inside the Party and Government. This is completely against the principles of socialism and communism, and that lead to the collapse of the USSR from inside.

    Regular wrote:Yes, like Tsarist elite stopped Dostoevsky, Chaikovsky?

    How many people in Tsarist Russia can reach the level of Dostoevsky, Chaikovsky ?

    Regular wrote:Majority of people are just that - statists. They like stupid sports, stupid TV shows and only care about sex, food and drink. North Korea or America, averages are generally the same. Do you think you are interested in military and other things you like because of education or just your curious nature?
    I agree that general education is a good thing, but don't pretend it's forge of intellectuals.

    This is the proof that ruling class want to keep their "elite" status and prevent the mass from reaching higher end of knowledge, by telling you to believe that, only a small number of people can reach the higher level of understanding.

    Do you try to ask why the mass "like" the "stupid sports", "stupid TV shows" "sex", "food" and "drink". Is that their inherent nature ? Or because the media is full of sex, violence, and bullshit things ? Media is full of nonsense and bullshit like evil Putin invade the world, games is full of stupid like Red Alert portrays evil Stalin invade the "free West", what do you expect the mass to think ?

    Especially when they have their full hand and head in factories and offices with few times to think for themselves about the right and wrong of the news ?

    It is because the elite push down the information full of craps that you deformed the minds of the people, and then they blame the people for their own ignorance, that because the people are a bunch of ignorant low lifes, can't be compared with the elites. A disgusting hypocrisy from the Western ruling class.

    I see you and many others on the Internet blame the people this and that, but does that change anything ? Most of this society is comprised of the people that you blame.

    Regular wrote:Sure, but wasn't Soviet education very specific and targeted not a whole population, hence schools/prof schools and universities? Some nations like kavkazoids and uzbeks had no access to most education that was accessible to Muscovites, nor do they needed as generally they were far less intelligent people.

    Then that was a weakness and that should have been fixed but not fixed.

    Regular wrote:Yet even with failures of Tsar Russia was one of the biggest economies in the world and it was going through it's industrial revolution. Most of the peasants even in west were illeterate too, except for few nations.

    That "big" economy is highly backward comparing with contemporary Western capitalist countries, if not among the most backward ones in the imperialist countries and was in huge debt borrowed from the Brits and France.

    Proletariats only comprised of 10% of the population, and the workers in industrial sector was even lower. 4/5 of the population were farmers and much of the farmers were in poverty. Land concentration was high, 2/3 of arable land was in landlords and the Church.

    Regular wrote:It wasn't easy transformation, plenty of failed dead ends and own Russian villager skulls had to crushed more than once to help the progress (With fucking Latvian communist hands ofcourse)

    Was any transformation easy ? Especially when the transformation came into conflict with certain classes in the old society ?

    The reactionary classes used violence to react against revolution and why should the revolution could not use violence to protect itself ?

    To eradicate slavery, the United States need a Civil War, hundred of thousands were killed to force the slave owners to surrender. Try blaming Lincoln for repressing the "free will" of slave owners.

    Regular wrote:Putin said it that even if he likes ideals of communism it was implemented with greatest repressions and brutality

    Have you ever heard about Enclosure in the Brits ?

    Have you ever heard about what Western imperialists did in Asia, America and Africa ?

    Have you ever heard about the brutality that imperialists impose on black slaves ?

    Repression, killings, brutality that the French and American imperialist imposed on my country is something that you can't imagine.

    Putin is a good leader but he can be wrong in many occasions. And he can intentionally say wrong things to appease various factions for the sake of unity.

    Regular wrote:Russia lost it's vast gold reserves and Finland, Baltics, Poland and dwarfed under communism.

    Are you sad that Soviet Russia acknowledged the independence of nations oppressed by the Tsarist regime ?

    Are you trying to turn Russia into an warlike country thirst for land from other nations ?

    Do you see that you are one step closer to the racist Aristides ?

    Regular wrote:Russians performed very very well in Brusilov charge. It gave birth to Blitzkrieg. But thanks to Tsar Russia gave up. This was biggest mistake and it's mentioned by Putin in video I've posted above.

    Militarist and Western historian only focus on the military side of the war, that war is simply two forces in certain battlefields.

    But without soldiers follow him Brusilov could not perform the shock offensive.

    Without soldiers enlisted Brusilov could not carry out his military plan.

    With our food, guns and ammo soldiers could not fight.

    Germany and Russia lost in the WW1 because deteriorating conditions inside their home, that lead to revolutions. People did not want to fight and die in a meaningless war, what they need is bread and peace.

    People get sick of the war and want peace. What would that war provide them when it was just the fought between different ruling oligarchs for lands and profits ?

    You have to understand that war is an effort of the whole society, not just battles, just Brussilov, Jukov, or military generals.

    You never focus on the needs and wills of the people who build the country so you put the blame of nonsense things.

    Piotr he Great defeated the Swedes war because he managed to armed and feed 100000 soldiers and made these soldiers fought for him to the very end, and made the society maintain these army to the very end.

    Russia defeated Napoleon because Russian peasants were armed and fought Napoleon to very end, and Russian society loyaly maintain the armed forces, while Napoleon army was rotten gradually thanks to no supply and no support.

    Russian defeated Germany because the whole Soviet society stood together in the most bitter years of the war, because Russian society managed to churned out 50000 tanks, 4000000 PPsh, many Yaks, ILs... to support the armed forces to the very end.

    Regular wrote:
    Russia-ness didn't help unless it was attached to the interest of the ones who feed this society, that is the working class. And actually, Russian identity has been formed by the commoners who form the bulk of the population, not the self-proclaimed "elites" who are actually the most Westernized ones.
    Russia-ness helped to defeat Mongols, Teutons, Turkish, French and many other enemies of Russia. Communism created Ukraine and other monstrosities. Guess who created Ukrainian alphabet and grammar to counter so called - Russian chauvinism?

    Do you simply believe that only Russia-ness, independent of class interest, can force Russian peasants to throw their life away and follow the leadership of the ruling class ?

    Do you notify that, the patriotic education documents always clarify clearly how the invader will harm the peasants ? That the invaders are brutal, they will kill the people, rob the villages, burn the house, rape the women, and destroy everything dearful of the people ?

    That is class-interest. Something close, clear and detailed to the workers and farmers, not some ephemeral sense of Russia-ness.

    Patriotism begins with the love for what close to you. Your father. Your mother. Your sibling. Your house. Your neighbor. Your river. Your mountain. Your field. Your daily life.

    The nation is built by workers and farmers, culture and other else are closely related to their life and daily interest.

    Regular wrote:My opinion about Soviet Union is similar to Putins - Кто не жалеет о распаде СССР, у того нет сердца. А у того, кто хочет его восстановления в прежнем виде, у того нет головы.
    Who doesn't miss Soviet Union has no hearth, who wants it back has no brain.

    What he means is the Soviet Union in its fault form, nobody wants it back, but they want a new regime which can materialize the ideas that of communism that the USSR had not completed.
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:33 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Regular wrote:Hahaha, are you sure? Communist societies did have elite. This was politburo, important party members, generals, engineers, scientists. They were much better off than rest of the people. Have you seen dachas in Crimea and Latvia?
    VHS and colour TVs were only available for few.

    Your twisted understanding of communism came from the simplified thinking of "USSR = communism".

    First and foremost, USSR never claimed that it reached communism. Except for a very short period when a certain mental patient named Khruschyov claimed that he could built communism in 20 years, none of the Soviet leaders claimed that they finished socialist stage to reach communist stage.

    You can reach the official Party documents for verification, as you have better condition of approaching Russian documents than me.

    The USSR and allies called themselves Socialist Bloc, not Communist Bloc.

    Second, after the dead of Stalin, the USSR deviated further and further from socialism and communism, due to the rise of "privileged class" inside the Party and Government. This is completely against the principles of socialism and communism, and that lead to the collapse of the USSR from inside.

    Regular wrote:Yes, like Tsarist elite stopped Dostoevsky, Chaikovsky?

    How many people in Tsarist Russia can reach the level of Dostoevsky, Chaikovsky ?

    Regular wrote:Majority of people are just that - statists. They like stupid sports, stupid TV shows and only care about sex, food and drink. North Korea or America, averages are generally the same. Do you think you are interested in military and other things you like because of education or just your curious nature?
    I agree that general education is a good thing, but don't pretend it's forge of intellectuals.

    This is the proof that ruling class want to keep their "elite" status and prevent the mass from reaching higher end of knowledge, by telling you to believe that, only a small number of people can reach the higher level of understanding.

    Do you try to ask why the mass "like" the "stupid sports", "stupid TV shows" "sex", "food" and "drink". Is that their inherent nature ? Or because the media is full of sex, violence, and bullshit things ? Media is full of nonsense and bullshit like evil Putin invade the world, games is full of stupid like Red Alert portrays evil Stalin invade the "free West", what do you expect the mass to think ?

    Especially when they have their full hand and head in factories and offices with few times to think for themselves about the right and wrong of the news ?

    It is because the elite push down the information full of craps that you deformed the minds of the people, and then they blame the people for their own ignorance, that because the people are a bunch of ignorant low lifes, can't be compared with the elites. A disgusting hypocrisy from the Western ruling class.

    I see you and many others on the Internet blame the people this and that, but does that change anything ? Most of this society is comprised of the people that you blame.

    Regular wrote:Sure, but wasn't Soviet education very specific and targeted not a whole population, hence schools/prof schools and universities? Some nations like kavkazoids and uzbeks had no access to most education that was accessible to Muscovites, nor do they needed as generally they were far less intelligent people.

    Then that was a weakness and that should have been fixed but not fixed.

    Regular wrote:Yet even with failures of Tsar Russia was one of the biggest economies in the world and it was going through it's industrial revolution. Most of the peasants even in west were illeterate too, except for few nations.

    That "big" economy is highly backward comparing with contemporary Western capitalist countries, if not among the most backward ones in the imperialist countries and was in huge debt borrowed from the Brits and France.

    Proletariats only comprised of 10% of the population, and the workers in industrial sector was even lower. 4/5 of the population were farmers and much of the farmers were in poverty. Land concentration was high, 2/3 of arable land was in landlords and the Church.

    Regular wrote:It wasn't easy transformation, plenty of failed dead ends and own Russian villager skulls had to crushed more than once to help the progress (With fucking Latvian communist hands ofcourse)

    Was any transformation easy ? Especially when the transformation came into conflict with certain classes in the old society ?

    The reactionary classes used violence to react against revolution and why should the revolution could not use violence to protect itself ?

    To eradicate slavery, the United States need a Civil War, hundred of thousands were killed to force the slave owners to surrender. Try blaming Lincoln for repressing the "free will" of slave owners.

    Regular wrote:Putin said it that even if he likes ideals of communism it was implemented with greatest repressions and brutality

    Have you ever heard about Enclosure in the Brits ?

    Have you ever heard about what Western imperialists did in Asia, America and Africa ?

    Have you ever heard about the brutality that imperialists impose on black slaves ?

    Repression, killings, brutality that the French and American imperialist imposed on my country is something that you can't imagine.

    Putin is a good leader but he can be wrong in many occasions. And he can intentionally say wrong things to appease various factions for the sake of unity.

    Regular wrote:Russia lost it's vast gold reserves and Finland, Baltics, Poland and dwarfed under communism.

    Are you sad that Soviet Russia acknowledged the independence of nations oppressed by the Tsarist regime ?

    Are you trying to turn Russia into an warlike country thirst for land from other nations ?

    Do you see that you are one step closer to the racist Aristides ?

    Regular wrote:Russians performed very very well in Brusilov charge. It gave birth to Blitzkrieg. But thanks to Tsar Russia gave up. This was biggest mistake and it's mentioned by Putin in video I've posted above.

    Militarist and Western historian only focus on the military side of the war, that war is simply two forces in certain battlefields.

    But without soldiers follow him Brusilov could not perform the shock offensive.

    Without soldiers enlisted Brusilov could not carry out his military plan.

    With our food, guns and ammo soldiers could not fight.

    Germany and Russia lost in the WW1 because deteriorating conditions inside their home, that lead to revolutions. People did not want to fight and die in a meaningless war, what they need is bread and peace.

    People get sick of the war and want peace. What would that war provide them when it was just the fought between different ruling oligarchs for lands and profits ?

    You have to understand that war is an effort of the whole society, not just battles, just Brussilov, Jukov, or military generals.

    You never focus on the needs and wills of the people who build the country so you put the blame of nonsense things.

    Piotr he Great defeated the Swedes war because he managed to armed and feed 100000 soldiers and made these soldiers fought for him to the very end, and made the society maintain these army to the very end.

    Russia defeated Napoleon because Russian peasants were armed and fought Napoleon to very end, and Russian society loyaly maintain the armed forces, while Napoleon army was rotten gradually thanks to no supply and no support.

    Russian defeated Germany because the whole Soviet society stood together in the most bitter years of the war, because Russian society managed to churned out 50000 tanks, 4000000 PPsh, many Yaks, ILs... to support the armed forces to the very end.

    Regular wrote:
    Russia-ness didn't help unless it was attached to the interest of the ones who feed this society, that is the working class. And actually, Russian identity has been formed by the commoners who form the bulk of the population, not the self-proclaimed "elites" who are actually the most Westernized ones.
    Russia-ness helped to defeat Mongols, Teutons, Turkish, French and many other enemies of Russia. Communism created Ukraine and other monstrosities. Guess who created Ukrainian alphabet and grammar to counter so called - Russian chauvinism?

    Do you simply believe that only Russia-ness, independent of class interest, can force Russian peasants to throw their life away and follow the leadership of the ruling class ?

    Do you notify that, the patriotic education documents always clarify clearly how the invader will harm the peasants ? That the invaders are brutal, they will kill the people, rob the villages, burn the house, rape the women, and destroy everything dearful of the people ?

    That is class-interest. Something close, clear and detailed to the workers and farmers, not some ephemeral sense of Russia-ness.

    Patriotism begins with the love for what close to you. Your father. Your mother. Your sibling. Your house. Your neighbor. Your river. Your mountain. Your field. Your daily life.

    The nation is built by workers and farmers, culture and other else are closely related to their life and daily interest.

    Regular wrote:My opinion about Soviet Union is similar to Putins - Кто не жалеет о распаде СССР, у того нет сердца. А у того, кто хочет его восстановления в прежнем виде, у того нет головы.
    Who doesn't miss Soviet Union has no hearth, who wants it back has no brain.

    What he means is the Soviet Union in its fault form, nobody wants it back, but they want a new regime which can materialize the ideas that of communism that the USSR had not completed.

    Communism can never work because its based on a wrong principle. Humans are not the same. They are different. A system that wants all uniform will always fail. It can maintain itelf with brutality or a short time but will rott apart.

    I would never accept a communist government. I would join resistance to destroy it and i know many millions in France would do same.
    Regular
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    Post  Regular on Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:17 pm

    Your twisted understanding of communism came from the simplified thinking of "USSR = communism".
    My twisted understanding comes from actually living in communist country. As an old believer - family was both persecuted by Tsar and communists and Siberian Gulags gave me cousins in Far East and Bulgaria. My opinion is also not a fringe anti-communist one as I am proud of Soviet legacy in same time as I seen flaws. Pretty much any Russian in my age group have similiar views as polls show. My opinion of late Soviet Union was more possitive than negative and my best years of my youth was in idyllic setting- sunset of Empire before terrible reality.
    I would call Khurshev an idiot on many things, but de-Stalinization was probably what separated Russia from Asian failed socialist experiments. I am not to sure what should I say to you if you think that personality cult, persecution and bloated security apparatus is any good.

    How many people in Tsarist Russia can reach the level of Dostoevsky, Chaikovsky ?

    How many people could achieve Dostevsky, Chaikovsky level? Not so many even after hundreds of years!!! Wink
    Russian golden age was sparked by literacy movements and it did in fact have an impact. Soviet literacy projects can't be denied too, yet it would have came to Russia regardless who was in power same as industrialization. Shitholes like Ireland, Sweden and Turkey and various Asian countries eventually became literate and somewhat industrialised without communism. To think Russian were inferior to Irish gingers with crooked teeth and genetics of their cousins is absurdity.

    This is the proof that ruling class want to keep their "elite" status and prevent the mass from reaching higher end of knowledge, by telling you to believe that, only a small number of people can reach the higher level of understanding.

    I had quite long history of personal development, but I have fairly average intelligence and I will never achieve great feats of discovery or do any arts as I am simply not capable of this. Physically as well I have limits and regards my age - I will never be boxing champion.
    There are much smarter people in this forum, like Garry. No matter how I would try I won't be able to contribute as him. I would even say Aristides and perhaps you have better brain power then me, but I have my stenghts as well. What I want to say, that average people are just that - average. There was ruling class hindering me or hiding higher knowledge. In the days of internet and easily accessible sources in libraries it's even more so.  

    Do you try to ask why the mass "like" the "stupid sports", "stupid TV shows" "sex", "food" and "drink". Is that their inherent nature ? Or because the media is full of sex, violence, and bullshit things ? Media is full of nonsense and bullshit like evil Putin invade the world, games is full of stupid like Red Alert portrays evil Stalin invade the "free West", what do you expect the mass to think ?

    Especially when they have their full hand and head in factories and offices with few times to think for themselves about the right and wrong of the news ?

    It is because you elite push down the information full of craps that you deformed the minds of the people, and then you blame the people for their own ignorance, that because the people are a bunch of ignorant low lifes, can be compared with your elites ?

    I see you and many others on the Internet blame the people this and that, but does that change anything ? Most of this society is comprised of the people that you blame

    I simply see this as media catering to primalism of humanity.
    Same example can be noticed where media is non factor-
    Well recorded deviant behaviours of Greek citizens, Romans of both patricians and plebians background, Chinese peasant fixations with animal phalluses and orgies of their emperors. Even today African tribals endorse themselves into various sexual deviances- raping animals, women, killing and pillaging for sake of fun or superstition.  We as humans don't differ much from wild chimpanzees in terms of source of enjoyment.

    ]Then that was a weakness and that should have been fixed but not fixed.
    Well they are lucky that Khurshev let them come back as Stalin wanted their bones scattered in Siberia. Believe me, Kavkazus nations only care about fighting, eating shashlik and fighting again. Visit Ingushetia and Dagestan. Primitive, but good people.

    That "big" economy is highly backward comparing with contemporary Western capitalist countries, if not among the most backward ones in the imperialist countries and was in huge debt borrowed from the Brits and France.

    Proletariats only comprised of 10% of the population, and the workers in industrial sector was even lower. 4/5 of the population were farmers and much of the farmers were in poverty. Land concentration was high, 2/3 of arable land was in landlords and the Church.

    Yet it wasn't worse than Ireland and most of central and northern Europe. Stolypin reforms did address many of issues of agriculture and this paved way to industrialisation.


    Was any transformation easy ? Especially when the transformation came into conflict with certain classes in the old society ?

    The reactionary classes used violence to react against revolution and why should the revolution could not use violence to protect itself ?

    To eradicate slavery, the United States need a Civil War, hundred of thousands were killed to force the slave owners to surrender. Try blaming Lincoln for repressing the "free will" of slave owners.

    Revolution was ok, but communists took power after Russian Revolution on October and I doubt it was necessary. They crushed socialist movements by peasants ruthlessly. Tombov and Yaroslav rebellions were crushed using Latvian streltsy.

    Also, civil war had little to with slaver - it's US propaganda. It's sugarcoating for government overthrow. I don't care about slaves at all and they were never free after civil war anyway. They probably even had it worse for some time.


    Bullshit.

    Have you ever heard about Enclosure in the Brits ?

    Have you ever heard about what Western imperialists did in Asia, America and Africa ?

    Have you ever heard about the brutality that imperialists impose on black slaves ?

    Repression, killings, brutality that the French and American imperialist imposed on my country is something that you can't imagine.

    Don't like comparing suffering, but you are comparing foreign invaders with inner repressions. Americans were still in trees eating bananas when Mongols came. They were genocidal tyrants. Then teutons, swedes, poles came as well. They all died. Tsars started persecute starovers in Russia. They died. Then nazis - dead. Soviet Union died as well, but Russians survived. Do you see the pattern?
    Even africans don't know even tiniest bit of suffering Russians do. But russians don't cry. History doesn't like victims.

    Are you sad that Soviet Russia acknowledged the independence of nations oppressed by the Tsarist regime ?

    Are you trying to turn Russia into an warlike country thirst for land from other nations ?

    Do you see that you are one step closer to the racist Aristides ?


    But Poles, Balts and Fins had to fight both Tsarist and Red troops and in Lithuanian case, among themselves and Poles too. It was free for all and no one recognised anything.
    I do think Russia is nation of conquerors and educators. They dragged kavkaz tribes out of caves and Finnish people out of interbreeding. Russia got big not because it was friendly. Russians were always warriors who fought against all odds.
    Northern Russian men and women are physically much stronger than westerners and only matched by Nordic people in size. Hitler was always talking about Aryans and guess why he hated Russians the most.
    Western propaganda #2 - Page 3 97863210


    Might makes right is the thing I do believe today.

    What he means is the Soviet Union in its fault form, nobody wants it back, but they want a new regime which can materialize the ideas that of communism that the USSR had not completed.
    Do you honestly believe that majority of Russians wanted or want to see real communism implemented in their own country? What is holding North Korea or China to implement it?
    Russia of today is drifting far away from communism as possible. Pension age went up, less and less social protection is being guaranteed, more and more wealth trickles down to people and generally Russia is heading starting to develope powerful corporations. BBC is wrong- Putin isn't trying to resurrect Soviet Union. He is killing it.
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    Post  kvs on Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:15 am

    Read my post you racist troll from "France". There is some US debris on the Moon more than likely. But there were never any Moon buggy
    rides on the Moon. And your photo does not contradict this fact. Grow a brain.

    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:17 am

    kvs wrote:Read my post you racist troll from "France".   There is some US debris on the Moon more than likely.   But there were never any Moon buggy
    rides on the Moon.   And your photo does not contradict this fact.   Grow a brain.


    We can see the wheel driving marks on the lunar surface. We can also the the moon buggy stand on the surface.

    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:58 am

    Regular wrote:My twisted understanding comes from actually living in communist country.

    The problem here is, someone with a sign of hammer and sickle on his shirt or scraft does not mean he is a true communist. Traitors and pretenders are everywhere. The self-proclamied "communists" in France and Japan are examples, and very disgusting examples, of traitors and pretenders.

    The USSR had drifted away from the principles of socialism and communism after Stalin died, with the rise of revisionists and a "priveleged class", all of them are the opposite of communism. And when the drifting reached a critical point, the USSR collapsed.

    When someone abuse the Party and goverment position to make a profit for himself instead of serving the greater good, he is no longer a communist.

    You already know better than me, that at the end of its life, the USSR leaders openly betrayed the idea of communism under the guise of "glasnost". Such disgusting attitude showed their true color.

    Regular wrote:I would call Khurshev an idiot on many things, but de-Stalinization was probably what separated Russia from Asian failed socialist experiments. I am not to sure what should I say to you if you think that personality cult, persecution and bloated security apparatus is any good.

    De-Stalinization did not help in removing personality cult, it just replace the cult of Stalin with the cult of Khruschyov, and later Breznhev, and Gorbachyov.

    Khruschyov is a disgusting opportunists who outrightly lied many things, he De-Stalin just for the sake for his profit and had nothing to do with objective evaluation of history.

    Persecution and bloated security is either good or bad depends on the historical background. We need to take a good look at the condition of 193x to understand why such measures was taken and whether such measures were necessary or not. At the condition of today of course people use different measures. You cannot use your criteria of today to judge what happened in the time of Stalin, just like what the Western media is doing.

    Regular wrote:Soviet literacy projects can't be denied too, yet it would have came to Russia regardless who was in power same as industrialization.

    No.

    It depends on the interests of the ruling class and the reactions of ruled class. If general education did not generate any profit to the ruling class then nothing would be done. If the ruled class did not stand up and start to demand then general education, reduced work hours, social welfare could not be achieved.

    Before 1945, most of the Indochina population is illiterate, fund for garrisoned force was even higher than fund for education. Educated population is not needed for the ruling class in bloodsucking colonies.

    The USSR pioneered in 8hrs work a day, universal education, and many social cares, the USSR made a pioneer example for workingmen in all the world to stand up and demands, and capitalist countries had to follow in order to maintain the competitiveness against the USSR.

    Regular wrote:To think Russian were inferior to Irish gingers with crooked teeth and genetics of their cousins is absurdity.

    That has nothing to do with the Irish and nothing to do with comparing this race with that race.

    Regular wrote:There are much smarter people in this forum, like Garry. No matter how I would try I won't be able to contribute as him. I would even say Aristides and perhaps you have better brain power then me, but I have my stenghts as well. What I want to say, that average people are just that - average. There was ruling class hindering me or hiding higher knowledge. In the days of internet and easily accessible sources in libraries it's even more so.

    That does not prevent you from increasing your understanding in the sectors outside of your specialization if more time and fund is directed to this. You may not reach the level of others in their specialization, but at least you can grasp what they are saying and you may even guess whether they are lying or trying to fool you.

    And of course the mass need to understand whether the "elites" are trying to fool them or not.

    The society with less ignorant people is better, and the only way is letting them be educated, not dismissing them and "stupid lowlife". Dismissing them won't change anything, do not make the society better.

    Regular wrote:Revolution was ok, but communists took power after Russian Revolution on October and I doubt it was necessary. They crushed socialist movements by peasants ruthlessly. Tombov and Yaroslav rebellions were crushed using Latvian streltsy.

    Communist takeover was necessary because only the Communist who took step to stop the meaningless war for Russia and tried to make a government which was truly represented the workers and farmers.

    Mistakes and faults did occurs, but at the end of the day the majority of Russian population supported the Bolshevik to defeat the Whites and interventionists. At that time the Russian society is exhausted by imperialist war, an unpopular Communist movement could have not mobilized huge support to defeat such many enemies.

    Regular wrote:Don't like comparing suffering, but you are comparing foreign invaders with inner repressions. Americans were still in trees eating bananas when Mongols came. They were genocidal tyrants. Then teutons, swedes, poles came as well. They all died. Tsars started persecute starovers in Russia. They died. Then nazis - dead. Soviet Union died as well, but Russians survived. Do you see the pattern?
    Even africans don't know even tiniest bit of suffering Russians do. But russians don't cry. History doesn't like victims.

    Brits Enclosure was internal suppression. The Brits aristocrat used violence to pushed the tenants and farmers out of the farmland so that they had no choice but enter the labor market, selling their labor force in factories opened by capitalists and aristocrats.

    There are surpression in many capitalist dictactorship, in Singapore, in Indonesia, the genocide of Amerindians in certain South America capitalist dictactorship, the regime of Pinochet, Somoza, and many others.

    What I tried to say is that the supression of capitalism is far greater both in scales and magnitude. The Revolution had to use violence to surpress the old ruling class to pave the way for new society, and such violence is nothing in comparison with the violence that the old ruling class used to maintain their exploitation.

    Regular wrote:I do think Russia is nation of conquerors and educators. They dragged kavkaz tribes out of caves and Finnish people out of interbreeding. Russia got big not because it was friendly. Russians were always warriors who fought against all odds.
    Northern Russian men and women are physically much stronger than westerners and only matched by Nordic people in size. Hitler was always talking about Aryans and guess why he hated Russians the most.
    Might makes right is the thing I do believe today.

    My nation are always involuntarily fighters who had to fight against many, yet that does not prevent me from believe that my nation should be friendly and respect the independence of others.

    Fighting against too many invaders probably make us believe that, imperialism is wrong.

    Regular wrote:Do you honestly believe that majority of Russians wanted or want to see real communism implemented in their own country?  

    Yes.

    Because workingmen are still there, being exploited, and sooner or later they must take serious step to make a new society for their own sake.

    Communism is inevitable because people are thriving for better and better society, where exploitation and unjust is finally eradicated.

    The collpase of USSR is a historical lesson, now people look at history and can see where the USSR went wrong, what mistake did they make. Knowing the mistake of predecessors, the workers will not repeat it.

    With the collapse of USSR capitalist historians say: "history is over." But workingmen say: "no, history is going to the next phase".

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