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    Western propaganda #2

    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:36 pm

    Recall the video I posted where Putin talks about anthropogenic global warming and green energy. Now read this
    hack piece by Ben Aris

    https://russia-insider.com/en/economics/putin-ridicules-green-energy-speech-russias-dirtiest-region/ri27453

    Note how Putin's words are taken out of context. If you listen to his whole speech on this topic it is rather
    reasonable and balanced. F*ckwad Ben Aris tries to make Putin sound like some anti-green and anti-enviroment
    zealot.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:46 am


    But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

    The purpose of media is to report the truth, current western media distort the truth... claiming all media are bad is a cop out... it is like saying all countries are as bad as the west... it is a way for the west to justify bad behaviour and evil actions.

    Also you obviously dont know french media. French media dont tells me bullshit designed to hate Russians.

    They are often quite positive towards Russia. The most fire gets USA. You wont find a nation with a more anti american press than France.

    Yeah, I could tell that when you first started posting on this forum and claimed that Putin personally poisoned the Skripals in the UK... did your media slip up there?

    Your comment abou european farmers amuses me. Comitting suicide? Who told you so? Pravda?

    Food storage rooms are cooled but also have 1.5 percent oxygen and 1.5 percent carbon dioxide so the fruit stays fresher for longer and does not ripen too quickly... a human goes in to such a room and stays there they fall asleep and die...

    When Polish farmers put in extra crops of apples to meet the demand in Russia in the 2000s they invested a lot of money, but when the sanctions came on... lots of apples and no customers and banks demanding their money... an easy option.

    We dont allow GMO in Europe and its France that has bans on USA imported crops and pushed this over all of Europe. We even ended free trade talks because of this. Its a core interest to keep american shit
    out of the market here and do that sucesful.

    For how long... only a matter of time...

    Is this chicken from Chernobyl... it has 5 wings... nope... its from Texas... genetically modified to have extra legs and extra wings... just like the people eating it...

    Then a mayor american intervention happened, and the Germans needed french support to get it done...and what did we do? We saw our chance to get more out of it. The Germans did not tell us to get lost. The Germans followed our demands and gave us what we wanted.

    Is that what your media told you?

    France and New Zealand are friends. After all, we are direct neighbors. I think your flight to Nouméa is shorter than to Sydney.

    Don't confuse politeness for friendship.

    Now read this
    hack piece by Ben Aris

    Yeah, what a dick...
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    Post  Aristide on Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:14 am

    GarryB wrote:

    But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

    The purpose of media is to report the truth, current western media distort the truth... claiming all media are bad is a cop out... it is like saying all countries are as bad as the west... it is a way for the west to justify bad behaviour and evil actions.

    Also you obviously dont know french media. French media dont tells me bullshit designed to hate Russians.

    They are often quite positive towards Russia. The most fire gets USA. You wont find a nation with a more anti american press than France.

    Yeah, I could tell that when you first started posting on this forum and claimed that Putin personally poisoned the Skripals in the UK... did your media slip up there?

    Your comment abou european farmers amuses me. Comitting suicide? Who told you so? Pravda?

    Food storage rooms are cooled but also have 1.5 percent oxygen and 1.5 percent carbon dioxide so the fruit stays fresher for longer and does not ripen too quickly... a human goes in to such a room and stays there they fall asleep and die...

    When Polish farmers put in extra crops of apples to meet the demand in Russia in the 2000s they invested a lot of money, but when the sanctions came on... lots of apples and no customers and banks demanding their money... an easy option.

    We dont allow GMO in Europe and its France that has bans on USA imported crops and pushed this over all of Europe. We even ended free trade talks because of this. Its a core interest to keep american shit
    out of the market here and do that sucesful.

    For how long... only a matter of time...

    Is this chicken from Chernobyl... it has 5 wings... nope... its from Texas... genetically modified to have extra legs and extra wings... just like the people eating it...

    Then a mayor american intervention happened, and the Germans needed french support to get it done...and what did we do? We saw our chance to get more out of it. The Germans did not tell us to get lost. The Germans followed our demands and gave us what we wanted.

    Is that what your media told you?

    France and New Zealand are friends. After all, we are direct neighbors. I think your flight to Nouméa is shorter than to Sydney.

    Don't confuse politeness for friendship.

    Now read this
    hack piece by Ben Aris

    Yeah, what a dick...

    No, its not what media told me. Germany is led by a weak women. France demanded control over the pipeline. Germany accepted.

    We also forced germany to drop f35. Merkel always does as ordered by us.

    As for western farmers...polish are not western. They are russian...at least for us. I think you know what i mean. They try hard but never will be accepted as one.
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    Post  andalusia on Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    andalusia wrote:

    I read somewhere that Vann7 said that Brazil and Russia were going to have a joint collaboration with a Brazilian aero company and Sukhoi to build the SU 57.  With this new right wing reactionary president in power who professes to be a fan of Trump and America; he could have sold the secrets to the Pentagon and Russian air force would be compromised.  

    Thats correct.. It was RT quick headlines ,that rotates in their main page where i read it.
    Putin offered dilma ruseff , the previous Brazilian President the blue prints and a manufacturing plant in Brazil to build SU-57 planes.  It was a huge risk.. what he was proposing , because US Could easily buy /spy and get the secrets from another or
    a right wing government betray Russia.. and it didn't took long for a right wing government
    to take power..  So Putin's ignorance and naiveness is a major danger for Russia national security.. Is a very huge blunder what he played ,and for the only reason it did not blow back
    on his face is because Brazil had no money to buy and did not accept the offer.

    But truly had She accepted the deal. .Right now The pentagon and Israel will have the blue prints and a copy of Su-57 on their hangers.. and understand every thing ,there is to know about it.. Even it was a major mistake allow India to get hands on Russia supersonic missiles Brahmos.. Which is a modified version of export version of Onyx missiles..

    The biggest blessing and curse of Russia is called Vladimir Putin..
    A blessing because he is patriotic and cares about Russia and defend Russia sovereignty.
    A Curse for his massive Ignorance , his lack of understanding how to Counter the western system.. and his total absolute passiveness with the US empire. .

    The only possible options that exist for Russia are..
    To fix their bad relations with the West are..

    1) Confront the hostilities with force.. that is declaration of war..
    2) or He can confront the hostilities with targeting the US major influence..
       by offering a atrong alternative their popular business that the world likes , and allows
       US Empire to influence the world towards their Orbit.. This is US high tech industry and
       Entertainment industry.
    3)Or he can do nothing ,and hope for time "fix things on its own". which is a complete
      foolishness.. time never fix problems.. on its own... it means to continue receiving
      endless sanctions and more proxy wars as Ukraine and Syria ..

    Putin is doing the #3 one. he is not fighting back.. He is not countering the US influence
    in the world.. He needs to look at China huawei.. How that company alone is opening the doors to China much more wider and open , that Russia could hope. Russia needs a leader with vision ,that understand ,that every nation in the world is not made on stone.. that every country without an exception can be influenced..  and the lack of leadership of Russia in popular with society business , is what is making things more difficult for Russia.. to get the respect they want..  Putin hoped that his Olympics was going to make NATO  fall in love with Russia..  No  and later he tried with Hypersonic missiles..  No   he simply don't understand the west.. how to influence them.. China is doing far better job than Russia
    influencing the west.. Even Mexico wants China to modernize their country communications.
    and Brazil ,did not rejected Chinese business either..  So is proof ,that leadership in business can be used as a weapon to influence other nations. and the more popular is the business among society ,the more the influence in that society . Russia needs an economy oriented towards Ordinary people.. Things that they will truly like to spend their hard earned money. because people can't buy Tanks.. or Nuclear reactors or stealth jets..  weapons are needed when leadership and influence fails.

    If Putin targeted American Silicon Valley business since he came to power in 2000 ,
    long time ago NATO will have been disbanded.. No one in Europe choose Americans over Russia because their shit smell better.. but because US have much better civilian business than Russia.. (no contest) for their nation development..

    if they want a car.. US have better cars..
    If they want Audio Visual system.. US have better ones..
    If they want Internet..  Only US have it..
    If they want entertainment.. US is the leader in Entertainment.
    If they want  elctronics .. US is very strong electronics..

    and to make things worse.. Americans used their politics and military power and Regime change tactics ,to get an alliance with the other most developed asian nations.. Like Japan ,South korea ,taiwan.. that leads the world in High Tech... So they control world technology with their alliances.  and Russia is mostly followed by under developed rejected nations..

    If they want to follow a nation with more future looking business. US is that country
    and Not Russia..  This is the problem with Putin's Russia.. is not a bigger economy what will make Russia a better choice ,than US.. but leadership..  The nation that leads and influence better Europe with their business ,is the one that will get Europe in their orbit.. and Europe is important , because without it.. NATO can't exist.  Cool
    So this is why Huawei is banned by Americans.. and why US wants the entire world to do the same.. because is a very influential Business.. and it will steal away the leadership of US
    in the world.. (their major influence).   So replacing the bank ,raising the interest or lowering them.. breaking banana records.. winning more olympics.. better nukes or prettier parks  , is not what will make Europe to Abandon The US orbit ,for the Russian one..
    Only leadership is what will do that.. Better business will also modernize Russia culture too..
    and that will influence Europe to finally drop ,the US system.  And this will be a positive thing for everyone.. including Americans.. citizens.. because will end the wars.. and will end NATO..will end the sanctions and trade wars.. the day Europe forms an alliance with Russia.
    and a new multi Polar world will replace it.. with a new United Nations , moved to Europe or Russia.. a new world system created.. that is more fair and more focused in business.

    Does Putin understand that the United States is not a friend of Russia? They are and enemy. Moreover, Britain has been an enemy of Russia for many centuries; when I have read history, it seems that those countries have never been on friendly terms. I think France has always been an enemy also. Since I am not Russian I think you guys would know more about the history between Russia, Great Britain and France.

    You simply cannot trust Latin American countries. A nation could have a left wing government and then transition to a right wing government and vice versa. You never sell your best military tech to any nation.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:19 am

    Last point first, they make money selling weapons... there is no value for them in not selling their best equipment, they have already sold S-400 systems to China and India and Turkey, but then they have also deployed the system around their own country in fairly large numbers, so the number of potential leaks is already enormous.

    The example of India and Turkey... if they didn't sell S-400 then those countries would have looked at alternatives.. Patriot, THAAD, or Aster... all very inferior systems that are rather more expensive, but given no other option what other choice would they have had?

    By selling them S-400 systems they get a better system and they make some money from the sales, which can be invested in upgrades and improvements, and the next generation systems.

    What Turkey and India are getting is one long range SAM system... what the west faces in Russia are multiple long, medium, short, and very short range air defence systems from several generations now, but all linked together with an enormous number of radars from small portable radars to enormous over the horizon radars that can track targets the size of paint chips in space in orbit around the planet. There is also an Air Force and an Army and a Navy linked in to that air defence system and there is a hair trigger to enough modern capable nuclear delivery systems to ruin western civilisation.

    The secret codes the Turks and Indians and Chinese get for their systems are totally unrelated to the codes the Russians will be using in peace time or time of war... they wont even be in the same alphabet I suspect... and even if they got a fresh set this week they will be different next week anyway.

    The worst case scenario is that the US learns how to make a better SAM from what they learn... big deal.

    Regarding the way Putin responds to the bullying from the west... they tried aggression and hostility... that was called the cold war and it didn't really work out for any one.

    Eventually the west will work out on its own that the country that contains the city of Leningrad and Stalingrad, though with different names now, is not a country you can bully and boss around... these economic sanctions would make the US or UK cry... does the west really think they can determine what is good behaviour from another sovereign country and then force any country they like to conform to that behaviour... especially when they don't conform to that ideal themselves?

    Eventually they might work it out... either way it makes the west look really bad when you can get information about both sides of the story, so the rest of the world... which includes most of the worlds population I might add... China and India and lots of other countries have more than western medias garbage to make their own minds up... much easier of course when the US starts swinging the stick at them too for not doing as they are told...

    The west will either work it out or fall... perhaps they see the fall coming and are panicking thinking everyone else is pushing them, when in fact they are pushing against everyone else and throwing themselves off the cliff... not too late, but I am glad they weren't friendly with Russia from the end of the Soviet Union... had they dragged them into the bitch club early enough when they were not strong enough to survive on their own they might have turned them into a carbon copy and extended this BS for another century while the gobble up the resources of that huge country...
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    Post  AMCXXL on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:29 am

    andalusia wrote:

    Does Putin understand that the United States is not a friend of Russia? They are and enemy.  Moreover, Britain has been an enemy of Russia for many centuries; when I have read history, it seems that those countries have never been on friendly terms.  I think France has always been an enemy also. Since I am not Russian I think you guys would know more about the history between Russia, Great Britain and France.  

    You simply cannot trust Latin American countries.  A nation could have a left wing government and then transition to a right wing government and vice versa.  You never sell your best military tech to any nation.  


    "the sons of the Great Britain"  have been enemies of everyone, every time.
    The empires have no predestined enemies and allies, they only have their own interests and whoever opposes them is the adversary, while those who can be used as instruments become their "partners" (short-term)

    If you have read enough history, you can understand that the policy of the British Empire for the rest of Europe, over the centuries, has been to undermine the dominant power in continental Europe by supporting the the neighbor competitor of this.

    England supported the Dutch against the Spanish, then the Spanish against the French , Austria, Prusia and Rusia against Napoleon, help the Ottomans against the Russian Empire, help France against the German Empire of the Kaisers and later against Hitler, and then supported Germany against the USSR in the Cold War, and now Russia
    Now, the hands of MI6 are also behind the coup d'état and support for the fascists in the crisis in Ukraine

    In Russia they forgot about this in the decade of the 90s, and neglected their military industry.but Putin has corrected the error
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:39 am

    Russians didn't forget. They just got consumed by the massive failure of their decisions and their leaders of the time. Pitied themselves for the longest time. Like a clinically depressed person. You don't see an empire commit seppuku and leave half the world hanging everyday.

    It would be negligence and criminal for the American and British establishments to NOT have taken advantage of this. They clearly weren't that.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:56 am

    It would be negligence and criminal for the American and British establishments to NOT have taken advantage of this. They clearly weren't that.

    Poor innocent bastards... they didn't want to be total censored and go completely against all their high sounding morals they spout all the time... it is just not their fault...

    Bullshit.

    They are worse than the worst criminals around, they hide in the shadows like cowards and gang up on the smallest countries they can find, they have nice high brow morals like freedom of the press and free market economy and privatisation which they use to destroy smaller countries and steal their wealth... ironically they are the countries that undermine freedom and democracy the most in this world.

    There was a chance to not repeat the bullshit of the past, they could have started out fresh, but they went back to their old tricks real fast and poor naieve Russia who actually thought there was something in western morality are not very disappointed... for many it has taken a while... ask Maria Butina... she managed to survive through till the last few years thinking Americans are good people and that Russia would be better if it was more like the west... well after several months of solitary confinement... treatment even serial child molesters don't get... I am sure she is cured...

    I am sure China will come up with some sort of alternative to western culture.

    Funny that now that the UK is leaving the EU I guess they will start using non English language options for EU business... that will isolate them from the British Empire part of the west then... I doubt Indians will want to learn too many languages just to communicate...
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:01 pm

    No amount of crying "hypocrisy" will change anything. But you know that... I guess you get a kick out it seeing your unhealthy dedication to pointing it out. Sometimes I wonder, with reason, if you're an astroturfer. Biased as it's, for if you dig well you'll find that everywhere.

    There is no such thing as poor naive Russia. It's just stupid and criminally negligent leadership in Russia. Nothing more. Tried a much needed reform, the policies put forward failed, and decided it was easier to call it quits. Naive they never have been. The KGB wasn't naive - nor was the Soviet leadership of the time. But it's nice to act like it to feed the masses the victim complex. Of which you definitely traffic in. Russian's have collected as much pain as they earned and should have for their stupidity, and betrayal (I think the word applies as well). Not a betrayal to the ideology (i think that's a minor betrayal), but to the millions of people under the Soviet umbrella as part of it, including its allies abroad who depended on it for protection while facing a common threat. Some allies changed sides quick to the winning side - after their own considerations. Yugoslavia, well, no place for them as an independent semi-socialist nation at the heart of Europe - made an example of after it failed to get the memo. Asian nations mostly reformed very well considering everything, as well as in Africa. Cuba continues its miracle, to much pain for its populace, enjoying the fruit of american arrogance, for the U.S had a great opportunity then to put them out. But the U.S continues to underestimate their resolve. The American strategy does always have a good fallback - for as long as they're strong, Cuba will not prosper - serves as a good example to keep the other weaklings in the southern hemisphere from revolting. For historians it's a nice case study that continues to write pages. How long can they last?

    Be glad Russia had nukes... could have ended like the Turks or worse.

    The Anglo's are the best at it for this current period in history... that's all.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:47 pm

    No amount of crying "hypocrisy" will change anything. But you know that... I guess you get a kick out it seeing your unhealthy dedication to pointing it out. Sometimes I wonder, with reason, if you're an astroturfer. Biased as it's, for if you dig well you'll find that everywhere.

    See I think the real problem is the great lie of the west... most westerners think the west is a democracy and all you need is the will of the people to change things, but successive US presidents have found they can't change anything... even ones that promise to end foreign wars that make the establishment rich off tax dollars find that it is the establishment in charge and they can't do anything... that is what establishment means.

    So the problems in the west is that they worked out pretty quickly that a free fair and open society is the ideal and that is the bullshit the media and propaganda machines pump out... get them young... Disney tells us that the underdog always prevails over the strong... how many times does that rabbit defeat the hunter or the dog or the rooster or the puddy cat? Then Hollywood continues the message... western hero put in impossible position and uses brains and brawn and more and more often these days anything but a gun for his solution... but always wins in the end.

    If you listen to what the west says, it sounds great... it sounds ideal... but it is all a lie... it is to get you to drop your guard so they can sneak in and break what you have and then have you pay them to put you back together... at an enormous profit of course...

    The west doesn't have a free press and they arrest anyone who actually digs through their trailings because there are so many corpses... so many victims...

    Their problem is that the propaganda machine is talking utopia but the establishment delivers something totally different.

    Big business is in charge in the US... pharmaceutical companies hire the people who are on the government boards that decide what rules America has for legal drugs... legal drug companies can dictate to US consumers what they have to pay for the drugs they need to survive... America has the best healthcare in the world but also the most expensive.... most of the time it is healthcare companies fleecing insurance companies so insurance companies make coverage weak and expensive so many can't afford it and therefore get no healthcare at all.

    I have seen a youtube video of a woman in a car accident pleading with people not to call her an ambulance... the bone was sticking out of her leg... but she knew she couldn't afford the 2-3 grand it would cost to get her to a hospital in an ambulance... WTF is the point of being the last superpower with the best healthcare in the world but so many of your people cannot afford to get hurt or sick because it will financially cripple them.

    There is no such thing as poor naive Russia. It's just stupid and criminally negligent leadership in Russia. Nothing more.

    Most Russians believed that when they gave up communism they would be welcomed into the international community, communism would be a thing of the past and they can start enjoying a better standard of life that has been denied to them all these years under communism...

    Naive... sure... criminally negligent? You think they should have kept on with communism?

    but to the millions of people under the Soviet umbrella as part of it, including its allies abroad who depended on it for protection while facing a common threat.

    One of the best things about the end of the Soviet Union is the loss of those parasites... most of them jumped ship to HATO as soon as they could... scum.

    Yugoslavia, well, no place for them as an independent semi-socialist nation at the heart of Europe - made an example of after it failed to get the memo.

    Yeah, proud moment all round for the west and europe there...

    Asian nations mostly reformed very well considering everything, as well as in Africa.

    China actively benefited from the hostility between the west and the Soviets... only now are the western countries realising what they have done... China is going to be much more of a problem than Russia ever was.

    How long can they last?

    You make it sound like they are being given options.

    Be glad Russia had nukes... could have ended like the Turks or worse.

    Actually beginning to think they should be using them...

    The Anglo's are the best at it for this current period in history... that's all.

    No they are not... the rest of the world has tasted Chinese investment that comes without the political interference that the west provides.

    The west is going to have to more openly use force in the future in most of the developing world, which is going to offend westerners as much as it is the natives... western people are becoming more aware of what is actually happening around the world because they can actually talk to the locals and don't rely on their copy and paste local media that just copy the news feeds from the US and UK even today... when they did it 30 years ago no one here knew, but now that we get BBC and CNN etc and the stuff we see on local channels is just the same... often even using exactly the same wording you realise it is not news... it is propagnda

    Anyway I am moving all this stuff to the western propaganda thread where it belongs shortly... when it disappears... that is where it will be.
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    Post  Aristide on Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    No amount of crying "hypocrisy" will change anything. But you know that... I guess you get a kick out it seeing your unhealthy dedication to pointing it out. Sometimes I wonder, with reason, if you're an astroturfer. Biased as it's, for if you dig well you'll find that everywhere.

    See I think the real problem is the great lie of the west... most westerners think the west is a democracy and all you need is the will of the people to change things, but successive US presidents have found they can't change anything... even ones that promise to end foreign wars that make the establishment rich off tax dollars find that it is the establishment in charge and they can't do anything... that is what establishment means.

    So the problems in the west is that they worked out pretty quickly that a free fair and open society is the ideal and that is the bullshit the media and propaganda machines pump out... get them young... Disney tells us that the underdog always prevails over the strong... how many times does that rabbit defeat the hunter or the dog or the rooster or the puddy cat? Then Hollywood continues the message... western hero put in impossible position and uses brains and brawn and more and more often these days anything but a gun for his solution... but always wins in the end.

    If you listen to what the west says, it sounds great... it sounds ideal... but it is all a lie... it is to get you to drop your guard so they can sneak in and break what you have and then have you pay them to put you back together... at an enormous profit of course...

    The west doesn't have a free press and they arrest anyone who actually digs through their trailings because there are so many corpses... so many victims...

    Their problem is that the propaganda machine is talking utopia but the establishment delivers something totally different.

    Big business is in charge in the US... pharmaceutical companies hire the people who are on the government boards that decide what rules America has for legal drugs... legal drug companies can dictate to US consumers what they have to pay for the drugs they need to survive... America has the best healthcare in the world but also the most expensive.... most of the time it is healthcare companies fleecing insurance companies so insurance companies make coverage weak and expensive so many can't afford it and therefore get no healthcare at all.

    I have seen a youtube video of a woman in a car accident pleading with people not to call her an ambulance... the bone was sticking out of her leg... but she knew she couldn't afford the 2-3 grand it would cost to get her to a hospital in an ambulance... WTF is the point of being the last superpower with the best healthcare in the world but so many of your people cannot afford to get hurt or sick because it will financially cripple them.

    There is no such thing as poor naive Russia. It's just stupid and criminally negligent leadership in Russia. Nothing more.

    Most Russians believed that when they gave up communism they would be welcomed into the international community, communism would be a thing of the past and they can start enjoying a better standard of life that has been denied to them all these years under communism...

    Naive... sure... criminally negligent? You think they should have kept on with communism?

    but to the millions of people under the Soviet umbrella as part of it, including its allies abroad who depended on it for protection while facing a common threat.

    One of the best things about the end of the Soviet Union is the loss of those parasites... most of them jumped ship to HATO as soon as they could... scum.

    Yugoslavia, well, no place for them as an independent semi-socialist nation at the heart of Europe - made an example of after it failed to get the memo.

    Yeah, proud moment all round for the west and europe there...

    Asian nations mostly reformed very well considering everything, as well as in Africa.

    China actively benefited from the hostility between the west and the Soviets... only now are the western countries realising what they have done... China is going to be much more of a problem than Russia ever was.

    How long can they last?

    You make it sound like they are being given options.

    Be glad Russia had nukes... could have ended like the Turks or worse.

    Actually beginning to think they should be using them...

    The Anglo's are the best at it for this current period in history... that's all.

    No they are not... the rest of the world has tasted Chinese investment that comes without the political interference that the west provides.

    The west is going to have to more openly use force in the future in most of the developing world, which is going to offend westerners as much as it is the natives... western people are becoming more aware of what is actually happening around the world because they can actually talk to the locals and don't rely on their copy and paste local media that just copy the news feeds from the US and UK even today... when they did it 30 years ago no one here knew, but now that we get BBC and CNN etc and the stuff we see on local channels is just the same... often even using exactly the same wording you realise it is not news... it is propagnda

    Anyway I am moving all this stuff to the western propaganda thread where it belongs shortly... when it disappears... that is where it will be.

    I dont understand you Gary. This anti west hate appears pathological. I hope its just bla bla and you dont mean it.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:57 am

    This is the natural result of listening to the propaganda and then comparing what they say to what they actually do and realise they are no better than those they demonise... in fact they are worse.

    The propaganda sounds great, but it appears that what they are actually delivering is coming up well short.

    If the US actually delivered what it promised then they would get my full support, but in reality they are telling me what they know would be perfect but what they deliver is not.

    When you listen to them talk you think they care about people, but the truth is they do not care about anything at all except money.

    Well at least they are better than Russia or China... imagine if they were in charge... I hear you say.

    What evidence is there that either of those two countries wants to be in charge like the US does... telling everyone what to think and how to act...

    But of course I cannot criticise the west... there is no room for improvement it is perfect and cannot be changed... it is perfectly natural for the wealth to be held by a tiny percentage who use their power and their wealth to accumulate more wealth and power... until what?
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    Post  Aristide on Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:07 pm

    GarryB wrote:This is the natural result of listening to the propaganda and then comparing what they say to what they actually do and realise they are no better than those they demonise... in fact they are worse.

    The propaganda sounds great, but it appears that what they are actually delivering is coming up well short.

    If the US actually delivered what it promised then they would get my full support, but in reality they are telling me what they know would be perfect but what they deliver is not.

    When you listen to them talk you think they care about people, but the truth is they do not care about anything at all except money.

    Well at least they are better than Russia or China... imagine if they were in charge... I hear you say.

    What evidence is there that either of those two countries wants to be in charge like the US does... telling everyone what to think and how to act...

    But of course I cannot criticise the west... there is no room for improvement it is perfect and cannot be changed... it is perfectly natural for the wealth to be held by a tiny percentage who use their power and their wealth to accumulate more wealth and power... until what?

    You can critisize us. You can critisize France. But you dont critisize. You wantnus dead. Burned in nuclear fire. Think about that.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:04 pm

    I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

    Evil communist china has people in prison on trumped up charges... the US has people in guantanimo who haven't been charged for anything.

    Julian Assange is currently in prison and likely to remain so for the rest of his life for revealing some of their crimes the way journalists used to back when they cared about the truth.

    The human race has enormous potential to do great things, but not while the US and the EU are in charge or even exist in their current forms because they have developed to consume small countries like a fat person eats chocolate cake and they are not going to change on their own...

    We need a real reset button... not the reset button that the US showed the Russians where they expected Russia to do as the US demanded and the US could just do as it liked in return...
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:03 pm

    GarryB wrote:I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

    Evil communist china has people in prison on trumped up charges... the US has people in guantanimo who haven't been charged for anything.

    Julian Assange is currently in prison and likely to remain so for the rest of his life for revealing some of their crimes the way journalists used to back when they cared about the truth.

    The human race has enormous potential to do great things, but not while the US and the EU are in charge or even exist in their current forms because they have developed to consume small countries like a fat person eats chocolate cake and they are not going to change on their own...

    We need a real reset button... not the reset button that the US showed the Russians where they expected Russia to do as the US demanded and the US could just do as it liked in return...

    I agree, and all the "values" that we.celebrated.before.as."western" values have been destroyed both in the Us and in Europe.
    In the addition south European states (where.the people were more.similar to the inhabitants of.the Caucasus then to.the germans, Hollanders etc) are under economic.and.social.attack since at least 25 years.
    The men are educated.or brainwashed to.be useless.

    I hope that the UERSS will soon cease to exist, and we can soon restart normal lives, without having to worry that your son could be taken from you because you're not enough tolerant (in england they gave a three-year old boy to a family that brainwashed him until the point he wants to do gender reassignment surgery to become a girl.

    Moreover, a couple more things about migrant crisis, and hypocrisy of.the criminal nation.called France. After creating the prpblem.in africa in the first place, the french close their ports to the ships carring illegal.migrants and arrest people that help them cross the border to.go from Italy.to France, but give national honors to that criminal german woman.that.did the.same.thing in Italy.

    The french.president believes to be better than Napoleon, in reality he is just a puppet and at best a bad copy of emperor Heliogabalus.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:24 am

    It is the hypocracy that renders all their morality and civilised standards void.

    Gender is both biological and cultural... culture can change the gender of any individual, but only mannerisms and behaviour.

    A boy can act like a girl and a girl can act like a boy... when I was a kid there were plenty of both... we didn't burn either at the stake... we considered the girly boys as being a bit of a poof... he hung around the girls all the time so there wasn't really an issue... I never beat them up, or verbally abused them.

    The tomboys were girls we could just treat like boys... personally I liked them... they liked the things we liked and didn't play with dresses and dolls like the other girls did.

    The point is that putting a penis on a tomboy and taking the penis off a girly boy is fucking stupid... they are children and don't need sexual parts to have sexual relations.

    If you want to know your gender then that is pretty straight forward... do you have XX chromosomes or XY... they are the only two human genders that there are.

    No I am not being intolerant, I am not saying a man (adult) cannot have an adult operation so he can have adult sex with other adults of his choosing, and I am not saying a woman (adult) cannot have an adult operation so she can have adult sex with other adults of her choosing, what I am against is the genital mutilation of children because they have been socialised by one parent or the other to act a particular way.
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:39 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

    Evil communist china has people in prison on trumped up charges... the US has people in guantanimo who haven't been charged for anything.

    Julian Assange is currently in prison and likely to remain so for the rest of his life for revealing some of their crimes the way journalists used to back when they cared about the truth.

    The human race has enormous potential to do great things, but not while the US and the EU are in charge or even exist in their current forms because they have developed to consume small countries like a fat person eats chocolate cake and they are not going to change on their own...

    We need a real reset button... not the reset button that the US showed the Russians where they expected Russia to do as the US demanded and the US could just do as it liked in return...

    I agree, and all the "values" that we.celebrated.before.as."western" values have been destroyed both in the Us and in Europe.
    In the addition south European states (where.the people were more.similar to the inhabitants of.the Caucasus then to.the germans, Hollanders etc) are under economic.and.social.attack since at least 25 years.
    The men are educated.or brainwashed to.be useless.

    I hope that the UERSS will soon cease to exist, and we can soon restart normal lives, without having to worry that your son could be taken from you because you're not enough tolerant (in england they gave a three-year old boy to a family that brainwashed him until the point he wants to do gender reassignment surgery to become a girl.

    Moreover, a couple more things about migrant crisis, and hypocrisy of.the criminal nation.called France. After creating the prpblem.in africa in the first place, the french close their ports to the ships carring illegal.migrants and arrest people that help them cross the border to.go from Italy.to France, but give national honors to that criminal german woman.that.did the.same.thing in Italy.

    The french.president believes to be better than Napoleon, in reality he is just a puppet and at best a bad copy of emperor Heliogabalus.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

    Oh now we are "criminal" nation?

    Ever ehared about Machiavelli? France plays the grand game. Of course we want no migrants.

    We see Italy as a low ranking rival. We hurt Italy not just in migrant question. Just look how we fucked them in the shipping yard issue.

    You should see the bigger picture.

    Our own coast is closed for migrants. In Italy we pushed migrants back into Italy. This accumulated more and more africans in Italy. It reached a critical mass and they elect Salvini. Salvini locked the ports.

    Exactly what want. Our actions hold Salvini in power. This german women is best what can happen to Salvini.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:23 pm

    Oh now we are "criminal" nation?

    We see Italy as a low ranking rival. We hurt Italy not just in migrant question. Just look how we fucked them in the shipping yard issue.

    Answering your own questions... and you don't understand the hate directed at France?
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:12 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Oh now we are "criminal" nation?

    We see Italy as a low ranking rival. We hurt Italy not just in migrant question. Just look how we fucked them in the shipping yard issue.

    Answering your own questions... and you don't understand the hate directed at France?

    Why? The italians tried to buy our national shipping yard. It is out of the question that our national shipping yard STX is under foreign control. France nationalized the yard and cut Italy out. Italy can invest in our yard, but not own it.

    Of course an internationalist and globalist like you would love to see France throwing its national corporations under the bus for a few bucks.

    France is very protective of its key industries. I see this as a positive thing.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:59 pm

    I started reading Machiavelli much before than you, and I still keep "Il Principe" in one of my bookshelves, thanks.

    And yes, France "f#&ked up" Italy on many occasions in the last 13 hundreds years (starting with damaging the relations between the italian peninsula and the (Eastern) Roman Empire.

    The shipyard issue is just one of the most recent.

    Btw, modern day Russophobia it's just the evolution and the consequence of the schism between Rome and Constantinople caused by the actions of french and german monarchs starting from the 8 century.

    Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.

    Stupidly our population and many of the politicians believe that selling it to the french is almost the same as if it was in italian hands, since the EU is a big happy family... sure, in their dreams...

    In addition, I still do not understand why it would be beneficial for Italy to produce ships in a french shipyard. If we have so many orders I would better spend the money and enlarge an existing shipyard or build from scratch a brand new one in Italy, than give work to french people and pay taxes there. Furthermore, when Italy decided to acquire it the majority of its shares were own by Sudkorea.

    The problem for Italy is that a large percentage of the politicians are bought by other nations (and it is interesting to see how many of the italian politicians that damaged Italy received the French legion d'honneur) or non state actors (Soros paid NGOs, etc), and another big part are just useful idiots that honestly believe that the other EU nations are friendly and want the best for us.

    Basically Germans and some other nations think at their own interests first, while in Italy there is a lack of interest for the protection of strategic industrial and infrastructural assets, many of which were sold to other nations in the last 25 years.

    Actually the italian politicians that were more appreciated in EU, like Prodi or Monti, were among those with a bigger part and responsibility in the destruction or sell of italian industrial basis.

    Unfortunately the politicians that present themselves as interested in preserving Italian interests are in many cases idiots, naive or unprepared, and more often than not they damage further their cause (e.g. Salvini).

    In addition the basis of a separation of powers is not anymore a reality in Italy, and the judges and magistrates often have a strong political agenda.

    This process started in the 90s with "tangentopoli", were with the excuse of corruption they removed from power the last independent and capable politicians in Italy(especially Craxi; while it was true that there was corruption around his circles, even if not more than in other western nations, just maybe more apparent, it was for sure less corruption than after him, and this was still to a level that did not favour one or the other party in particular).

    Then a couple of years later (in 1994) came Berlusconi. He had a lot of defects, and his own actions made him vulnerable to political or judicial  blackmails, but at least he tried to protect Italian interests and managed to keep good relations with both USA and Russia, and started to try to include Russia in the western system (probably because that for Italy it was important to have another nation that could counter  "our allies").

    He was in and out several times with the centre left with the "seller of Italy" Prodi or (the guy that allowed the americans to use Italian bases to bomb Serbia in 1999) d'alema ruling the government when Berlusconi own allies managed to destroy the government from within.

    He was then removed from power for the last time in 2011, with a sort of coup d'État organised by the italian president (a role that should not have political power, but only act as a guarant of democracy, similar to the British queen, but only for 7 years) Napolitano (a former corrupted communist that took Soviet money until 1991 and American money afterwards) and probably for fear of ending in prison or in "exile" like Craxi accepted the blackmail, released power and allowed the french and americans to destroy Libia (among the rest, french people did not like fair competion on the oil market, since ENI managed to have written better contracts with Gaddafi and also because the clown Sarkozy wanted to hide that the libians gave him money for his election campaign).

    After him Monti, a theoretical economist that applied a sort of light greek cure to Italy, continuing in the destruction of the italian middle class and destroying the future of many young Italians.

    The incredibly high debt/gdp ratio of italy is due instead to many factors, including the separation of the  bank of Italy from the government control (I believe in 1979), high spending in the 80s (including paying high rents to people retiring in their early 40s) and then finally and mainly the adoption of Euro as a currency, and the austerity measures and incredibly high taxes started in the early 90s that did not allow the GDP to grow.


    Another thing that I don't like in EU is the too large political importance of small statelets like belgium and holland (that, btw during the colonial era they were responsible for horrible crimes, even worse then those of French and Brits), and of the state of Luxembourg, that is basically a modern day "financial Tortuga".

    In addition, as I said before, the taxes in Italy are unbearably high, and if you have your own firm it is practically impossible to respect all the laws, pay all the taxes and survive.

    However multinational firms operating in Italy that have financial base in Luxembourg or in other fiscal paradises, may end up paying almost no taxes in Italy, basically stealing money from the italian budget and creating unfair competition to real italian firms.

    Anyway now with the new german woman at the head of the EU commission the Germans believe they can do whatever they want. I believe it will end up as a pyrrhic victory for them. Afterall Germans are excellent tacticians, but bad strategists.
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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:39 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I started reading Machiavelli much before than you, and I still keep "Il Principe" in one of my bookshelves, thanks.

    And yes, France "f#&ked up" Italy on many occasions in the last 13 hundreds years (starting with damaging the relations between the italian peninsula and the (Eastern) Roman Empire.

    The shipyard issue is just one of the most recent.

    Btw, modern day Russophobia it's just the evolution and the consequence of the schism between Rome and Constantinople caused by the actions of french and german monarchs starting from the 8 century.

    Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.

    Stupidly our population and many of the politicians believe that selling it to the french is almost the same as if it was in italian hands, since the EU is a big happy family... sure, in their dreams...

    In addition, I still do not understand why it would be beneficial for Italy to produce ships in a french shipyard. If we have so many orders I would better spend the money and enlarge an existing shipyard or build from scratch a brand new one in Italy, than give work to french people and pay taxes there. Furthermore, when Italy decided to acquire it the majority of its shares were own by Sudkorea.

    The problem for Italy is that a large percentage of the politicians are bought by other nations (and it is interesting to see how many of the italian politicians that damaged Italy received the French legion d'honneur) or non state actors (Soros paid NGOs, etc), and another big part are just useful idiots that honestly believe that the other EU nations are friendly and want the best for us.

    Basically Germans and some other nations think at their own interests first, while in Italy there is a lack of interest for the protection of strategic industrial and infrastructural assets, many of which were sold to other nations in the last 25 years.

    Actually the italian politicians that were more appreciated in EU, like Prodi or Monti, were among those with a bigger part and responsibility in the destruction or sell of italian industrial basis.

    Unfortunately the politicians that present themselves as interested in preserving Italian interests are in many cases idiots, naive or unprepared, and more often than not they damage further their cause (e.g. Salvini).

    In addition the basis of a separation of powers is not anymore a reality in Italy, and the judges and magistrates often have a strong political agenda.

    This process started in the 90s with "tangentopoli", were with the excuse of corruption they removed from power the last independent and capable politicians in Italy(especially Craxi; while it was true that there was corruption around his circles, even if not more than in other western nations, just maybe more apparent, it was for sure less corruption than after him, and this was still to a level that did not favour one or the other party in particular).

    Then a couple of years later (in 1994) came Berlusconi. He had a lot of defects, and his own actions made him vulnerable to political or judicial  blackmails, but at least he tried to protect Italian interests and managed to keep good relations with both USA and Russia, and started to try to include Russia in the western system (probably because that for Italy it was important to have another nation that could counter  "our allies").

    He was in and out several times with the centre left with the "seller of Italy" Prodi or (the guy that allowed the americans to use Italian bases to bomb Serbia in 1999) d'alema ruling the government when Berlusconi own allies managed to destroy the government from within.

    He was then removed from power for the last time in 2011, with a sort of coup d'État organised by the italian president (a role that should not have political power, but only act as a guarant of democracy, similar to the British queen, but only for 7 years) Napolitano (a former corrupted communist that took Soviet money until 1991 and American money afterwards) and probably for fear of ending in prison or in "exile" like Craxi accepted the blackmail, released power and allowed the french and americans to destroy Libia (among the rest, french people did not like fair competion on the oil market, since ENI managed to have written better contracts with Gaddafi and also because the clown Sarkozy wanted to hide that the libians gave him money for his election campaign).

    After him Monti, a theoretical economist that applied a sort of light greek cure to Italy, continuing in the destruction of the italian middle class and destroying the future of many young Italians.

    The incredibly high debt/gdp ratio of italy is due instead to many factors, including the separation of the  bank of Italy from the government control (I believe in 1979), high spending in the 80s (including paying high rents to people retiring in their early 40s) and then finally and mainly the adoption of Euro as a currency, and the austerity measures and incredibly high taxes started in the early 90s that did not allow the GDP to grow.


    Another thing that I don't like in EU is the too large political importance of small statelets like belgium and holland (that, btw during the colonial era they were responsible for horrible crimes, even worse then those of French and Brits), and of the state of Luxembourg, that is basically a modern day "financial Tortuga".

    In addition, as I said before, the taxes in Italy are unbearably high, and if you have your own firm it is practically impossible to respect all the laws, pay all the taxes and survive.

    However multinational firms operating in Italy that have financial base in Luxembourg or in other fiscal paradises, may end up paying almost no taxes in Italy, basically stealing money from the italian budget and creating unfair competition to real italian firms.

    Anyway now with the new german woman at the head of the EU commission the Germans believe they can do whatever they want. I believe it will end up as a pyrrhic victory for them. Afterall Germans are excellent tacticians, but bad strategists.

    I guess you are Italian?

    I like Italy. I live not that far from Italy. Im from Aix-en-Provence and my family is from Nice. I often visit Savone and i have a girlfriend in Lucca.

    One thing you must understand. For France, its always France first. When we say Europe, we mean France. We like to build nternational companies but always we must have control over it.

    Nothing against Fincantieri, but the idea of STX in italian hands was impossible for us to support.

    When we say european army, we mean army under french rule.

    We have nothing against Italy. We are thankful for Salvini in a way. We accept zero migrants but he takes the fire. In a way, Italy is our heatshield.

    All in all i think our relations are good. Its just the typical biting at each other.

    One thing though...while the area around Savone is like France i once visited the area down near Bari...man thats like a different country.
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    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:46 pm



    Supposedly the tank battle at Kursk is a fake and the USSR lost 235 tanks while the Reich lost only 5 tanks.

    This retarded revisionist lie is based on the following article:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/16161262.2019.1606545

    The whole premise is that some Luftwaffe recon photos supposedly does not show enough tanks. LOL.

    My background is physics and I do research for a living. Here are some questions:

    1) How much of the actual battlefield area do the Luftwaffe photos cover? We are not talking about satellite images.
    The article does not address this issue. It is not possible for the Luftwaffe to have conducted a full areal mapping survey
    given the location of this battlefield.

    2) Given the quality of these photos, how can any feature be 100% identified as actual tank wreakage? The article
    uses "possibly" and "potential" a lot. The "evidence" presented is not real evidence. In spite of the claim that some
    sort of digital enhancement technology exists, the fact remains that without real time re-imaging a blurry low res photo
    can never be made high res. Adaptive optics work only because there is a time-resolved imaging stream. You can't
    apply adaptive optics to undo atmospheric effects on a single snapshot. And there is no solution to image blurring from
    vibration without an accurate model of the vibration. Lost information remains lost. Photos do not magically encode
    arbitrary levels of information.

    If I was a reviewer for this paper, I would not accept it for publication. You know, the author(s) has(have) to prove what
    they claim. Waving of hands and hot air are not publication level work.




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    Post  Aristide on Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:01 pm

    kvs wrote:

    Supposedly the tank battle at Kursk is a fake and the USSR lost 235 tanks while the Reich lost only 5 tanks.

    This retarded revisionist lie is based on the following article:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/16161262.2019.1606545

    The whole premise is that some Luftwaffe recon photos supposedly does not show enough tanks.   LOL.

    My background is physics and I do research for a living.   Here are some questions:

    1) How much of the actual battlefield area do the Luftwaffe photos cover?   We are not talking about satellite images.
    The article does not address this issue.   It is not possible for the Luftwaffe to have conducted a full areal mapping survey
    given the location of this battlefield.  

    2) Given the quality of these photos, how can any feature be 100% identified as actual tank wreakage?   The article
    uses "possibly" and "potential" a lot.   The "evidence" presented is not real evidence.   In spite of the claim that some
    sort of digital enhancement technology exists, the fact remains that without real time re-imaging a blurry low res photo
    can never be made high res.   Adaptive optics work only because there is a time-resolved imaging stream.   You can't
    apply adaptive optics to undo atmospheric effects on a single snapshot.   And there is no solution to image blurring from
    vibration without an accurate model of the vibration.   Lost information remains lost.  Photos do not magically encode
    arbitrary levels of information.  

    If I was a reviewer for this paper, I would not accept it for publication.   You know, the author(s) has(have) to prove what
    they claim.   Waving of hands and hot air are not publication level work.





    Stop to live in the past. We have 2019. What happened in 1945 is as irrelevant as who killed the Ice mummy.

    By the way, we had bastille day just few days ago. We invited german troops to participate in our military parade.

    Russia is stuck too much in the past. I think it would be impossible for Russia to invite german troops to take part and show friendship and that the past is over

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    The German unit at our parade

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:02 am

    Of course an internationalist and globalist like you would love to see France throwing its national corporations under the bus for a few bucks.

    France is very protective of its key industries. I see this as a positive thing.

    But Americans and Europeans are democratic and free market supporters who hate communism... nationalising businesses to protect from foreign ownership is socialism isn't it?

    Unfortunately France apply different rules for itself and for the others. They don't want others to own french assets, but they continue to interfer with other countries. Recently they acquired quite a bit of italian industries.

    Learn from the French and nationalise them...

    If I was a reviewer for this paper, I would not accept it for publication. You know, the author(s) has(have) to prove what
    they claim. Waving of hands and hot air are not publication level work.

    Link it to the confirmed number of Jews killed during WWII by the Germans and there will never be any question the number is less than 6 million tanks...

    Stop to live in the past. We have 2019. What happened in 1945 is as irrelevant as who killed the Ice mummy.

    By the way, we had bastille day just few days ago. We invited german troops to participate in our military parade.

    Russia is stuck too much in the past. I think it would be impossible for Russia to invite german troops to take part and show friendship and that the past is over

    Actually I would say the opposite... why could France so eagerly and quickly forgive Germany and Japan for their terrible crimes during WWII where enormous numbers of French people were killed or mistreated, yet there is no positive feelings to the country that helped defeat Germany and Japan, just because there was ill feeling and mistrust for the 60 odd years of the cold war where very few French people were directly killed by the Soviets or Russians?

    Equally why do you equate everything the Soviets did with the Russians and not the georgians or lithuanians or latvians or ukrainians, or estonians or people from belarus or any of the 'stan republics?

    The problem isn't with Russia, it is the west that is holding the grudge and not moving on, but somehow that is Russias fault. Rolling Eyes
    higurashihougi
    higurashihougi

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    Western propaganda #2 Empty Re: Western propaganda #2

    Post  higurashihougi on Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    But thats the thing. All media have a agenda. One must read both sides and usually the truth is in the middle.

    The purpose of media is to report the truth, current western media distort the truth... claiming all media are bad is a cop out... it is like saying all countries are as bad as the west... it is a way for the west to justify bad behaviour and evil actions.

    Actually medias do have agenda, depends on who owns them. Media of Western countries belong to big corporation or state who maintain the current form of society with capitalistic ruling class and proletariat ruled class... therefore the information and views they present express their class nature.

    The only media who reports the truth must belong to the class whose interest is the enlightenment of the whole society and spreading knowledge to all citizen disregard of race, color or background, the class whose members do not feel threatened by the improvement of other individuals and acknowledge that development of one is the basis for and must correspond with development of all.

    From my belief, that is the working class, the ones who feed this society and make the backbone of any current nations.

    Aristide wrote:One thing you must understand. For France, its always France first. When we say Europe, we mean France. We like to build nternational companies but always we must have control over it.

    Nothing against Fincantieri, but the idea of STX in italian hands was impossible for us to support.

    When we say european army, we mean army under french rule.

    Imperialism and racism at its best expression. Congratulations for one step closer to Nazism.

    He is always boasting about how he is free to do what he want unrestricted, how he can buy oranges and bananas as he like to. But what he is saying here is the opposite of freedom for other, he wants other people to be controlled and lost all freedom.

    Well, he is boasting about his freedom, how can he enjoy his freedom and he doesn't care about others freedom. Others freedom can be sacrificed for the sake of his freedom.

    This is the very expression of Western imperialism, they are boasting about "free trade" when unrestricted trading favour their interests and are boasting about "protectionism" when China, Russia and other countries rise up and become powerful competitors. Our friend Aristides just only openly says what Western imperialism does not dare to say.

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I am criticising the western society I live inside, because I see it only doing bad things despite claiming to be damn near perfection of human morality and civilised behaviour their practises are actually worse than they claim the behaviour of their enemies is.

    I agree, and all the "values" that we.celebrated.before.as."western" values have been destroyed both in the Us and in Europe.

    The core elements of "Western values" are liberalism and individualism. Which means one is "liberated" from all kinds of social relationship except economic ones - the relationship between man and income, between employers and employees, between buyers and sellers, and one has laize-faire unrestricted freedom over what he has in hand.

    Which means each individual are free to enter the dependence relationship with his employer, the kids are "free" from family protection to fall into the typhoon of works and jobs provided by capitalists. And the big corporates are free to do many things thanks to their huge wealth and economic power, including freedom to rob the freedom from small shopowners, small farmers, and small countries with few means to counteract. Meanwhile the workers no freedom except the freedom to sell their labour force.

    That is why, the West always cries "freedom", but Western people are losing their freedom.

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