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    Russian midget submarines

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    Post  Book. on Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:06 pm

    Russia bringing back Cold War mini-subs, report says
    By James RogersPublished July 11, 2015


    Russia is reportedly bringing back a fleet of Cold War-era mini-submarines, a move that could ramp up tensions with the West.

    Moscow is set to bring back the Cold War-era Piranha-class midget subs as part of a $350 million military spending spree, according to the U.K.’s Daily Express. An unnamed source told the newspaper that Russian leader Vladimir Putin is “breathing life into many old programmes and thinks subs are an effective way of getting what he wants militarily.”

    Relations between Russia and the West have sunk to post-Cold War lows after Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula and its support for a pro-Russian insurgency in eastern Ukraine.

    Amid these simmering tensions, Russian submarine activities are under close scrutiny, particularly in the Baltic. Last year the Swedish military launched a major hunt for a suspected underwater intruder in the Stockholm archipelago, its largest anti-sub operation since the end of the Cold War. Defense experts cited Russia as the likely culprit, although Moscow denied its involvement.

    The incident nonetheless prompted speculation that a Russian Piranha sub was involved.

    Described as virtually undetectable, the covert subs can lay mines and fire torpedoes. The diesel-electric submarines displace a mere 390 tons when submerged and can carry nine crew and six combat divers, according to the U.S. Naval Institute.

    The Piranha submarines could pose a “significant threat” to the U.K. if they enter British waters, according to the source interviewed by the Daily Express.

    However, Dmitry Gorenburg, an analyst at naval research specialist CNA, is skeptical about the prospect of Piranha subs resurfacing in Russia's military. "The two remaining subs of this class have been out of service for more than 15 years," he told FoxNews.com, in an e-mail, adding that it would be a major task to refurbish them. "The subs were originally withdrawn because they were seen as difficult to use and too large for their purpose," he added.

    Gorenburg believes that Russia is more likely to build new midget subs at some point in the future, rather then revamping old ones.

    Washington has been keeping a close eye on Moscow’s military moves. On Thursday President Obama's nominee to lead the military's Joint Chiefs of Staff warned that Russia poses the world's greatest threat to U.S. national security. "If you want to talk about a nation that could pose an existential threat to the United States, I'd have to point to Russia. And if you look at their behavior, it's nothing short of alarming," Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford told senators at his confirmation hearing.

    Other senior military figures have voiced their concerns about Russia. In April Adm. William Gortney, head of U.S. Northern Command, warned that Russia’s modern military is now “far more capable” than that of the Soviet Union, saying Moscow is “messaging” the United States that “they’re a global power.” Gortney disclosed to Congress in March that Russian heavy bombers flew more "out-of-area patrols" last year than in any year "since the Cold War." The following month, he affirmed that Russia’s “long-range” flights are rising – and occurring in places they haven’t before, like near Canada, Alaska and the English Channel.

    On July 4 two pairs of Russian bombers flew off the coast of California and Alaska -- forcing the Air Force to scramble fighter jets to intercept both flights, defense officials told Fox News.

    The Russian Embassy in Washington D.C. has not yet responded to a request for comment on this story from FoxNews.com.

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/07/11/russia-bringing-back-cold-war-mini-subs-report-says/

    Russian midget submarines Qw77qyo

    Undated photo of the Soviet-era Project 865 Piranha-class submarine. (U.S. Naval Institute)

    New frogman sub

    spy the nato  pirat
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    Post  Book. on Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:14 am

    Projek 865 Piranha class

    6 frog men. 400 mi

    Russian midget submarines Qawl2s9

    The type was designed at the famous Malachite design bureau by Chief designer Chief Designer L.V.Chernopyatov in the 1970s and entered limited service in the late 1980s. Of classic Soviet double-hull construction, the inner hulls were built from Titanium. After protracted development the two units built were in and out of service during the 1990s. Victims of the defense cuts of the 1990s both hulls were decommissioned and scrapped.

    Specifications
    Length: 28.2 meters
    Beam: 4.74m meter
    Displacement: 218 tons surfaced, 287tns submerged
    Speed: Maximum 6.28 kts surfaced, 6.5kts submerged
    Operating depth: 180m (200m max)
    Endurance : 10 days, 603nm at cruising speed of 4kts surfaced, 260nm at 4kts submerged
    Armament: (inner tubes) 2 x 533mm (21") torpedo tubes for sub-size 400mm Latouche anti-ship torpedoes which swim out.
    SDVs: (outer tubes) 2 x Sirena-UM Swimmer Delivery Vehicles, or 6-8 'Proton' diver propulsion devices
    Crew: 3
    Special Forces: 6

    http://www.hisutton.com/Piranha%20Special%20Forces%20submarine.html
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:08 pm

    Russian midget submarines Tv2r10

    The piranha family of coastal mini subs...

    Russian midget submarines Img54510

    Piranha-T (above) looks more modern than the older one (below):

    Russian midget submarines Jy6v10
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:Russian midget submarines Tv2r10

    The piranha family of coastal mini subs...

    Russian midget submarines Img54510

    Piranha-T (above) looks more modern than the older one (below):

    Russian midget submarines Jy6v10
    So is there a market for these subs or not?? scratch
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:30 pm

    Not a huge market I suppose... AFAIK the Soviets had about 2 of the original Piranha class subs, while the other models are just models AFAIK because they are very specialised designs and the users are a quiet bunch who don't like getting their photo taken.

    I also suspect there are a large number of governments that would love them but can't afford the price.
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:14 am

    These sorts of subs might actually be right up Iran's, Cuba's, Venezuela's, Saudi Arabia's, Egypt's, India's, Indonesia's and China's alleys actually.

    Countries which either have strategic narrow waterways, gulfs or bays where a lot of damage can be done by naval commandos and special operations; or those which have large enough defence budgets to be able to afford such specialized vessels anyway.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:37 am

    Good point FP... and these mini subs don't have the main weakness of normal mini subs... they carry full sized torpedoes in full sized torpedo tubes... making them rather potent and not reliant on mines or sabotage frogmen... and they can also do that too... Twisted Evil
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    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:18 pm

    I open a new thread for russian midget submarines.

    So Russia is proposing some interesting designs of midget submarines armed with torpedo tubes and they could also carry kalibr land attack missiles.

    http://www.aoosk.ru/en/products/project-p-650e/

    Defence of coastal andsea frontiers by cover patrol, destroying, of single surface ships and vessels, landing and recovering of commandoes, mine laying, reconnaissance at the appointed areas and guidance of striking forces on enemy forces, electronic reconnaissance, evacuation of people and material values from the areas of local collisions, destroying of enemy coastal targets located both near the shoreline and at the distant areas.

    Specifications

    Displacement (normal) 720 (760) m3
    Length 55 (57) m
    Beam 6.4 m
    Maximum diving depth 300 m
    Endurance 20 days
    Underwater speed:
    full 15.0 (20.5) knots
    cruising 4 knots
    Complement 9
    Combat swimmers 6
    Cruising range (cruising speed) 2000 nm
    Continuous submerged range 1200 nm
    Fuel cell power capacity 15000 kW h
    Diesel generators 2 x 350 kW
    Propulsion motor 1 x 900 (1700) kW
    Armament
    533 mm torpedoes, missiles 4
    400 torpedoes 8
    Mines 12
    Self-defense devices 4

    http://www.aoosk.ru/en/products/project-p-550/

    Project P-550
    Small submarine


    Defence of coastal andsea frontiers by cover patrol, destroying, of single surface ships and vessels, landing and recovering of commandoes, mine laying, reconnaissance at the appointed areas and guidance of striking forces on enemy forces, electronic reconnaissance, evacuation of people and material values from the areas of local collisions, destroying of enemy coastal targets located both near the shoreline and at the distant areas.
    Specifications
    Displacement (normal) 610 (650) m3
    Length 49 (51) m
    Beam 6.4 m
    Maximum diving depth 300 m
    Endurance 20 days
    Submerged speed:
    full 15.5 (21.0) knots
    economic 4 knots
    Complement 9
    Combat swimmers 6
    Range 2000 nm
    Continuous submerged range 200 nm
    Diesel generators 2 x 350 kW
    Propulsion motor 1 x 900 (1700) kW
    Armament
    533 mm torpedoes, missiles 4
    400 mm torpedoes 8
    Mines
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    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:20 pm

    http://www.aoosk.ru/en/products/piranha-t/

    Piranha-T
    Small submarine


    Defence of coastal andsea frontiers by cover patrol, destroying, of single surface ships and vessels, landing and recovering of commandoes, mine laying, reconnaissance at the appointed areas and guidance of striking forces on enemy forces, electronic reconnaissance, evacuation of people and material values from the areas of local collisions, destroying of enemy coastal targets located both near the shoreline and at the distant areas.
    Developer
    Specifications
    Displacement (normal) 245 m3
    Length 30 m
    Beam 4.7 m
    Draft 3.9 m
    Endurance 20 days
    Submerged speed:
    full 12 knots
    economic 4 knots
    Complement 3
    Combat swimmers 6
    Continuous submerged range 260 nm
    Range 2000 nm
    Maximum diving depth 200 m
    Diesel generator 1 x 160 kW
    Propolsion motor 1 x 250 kW
    Armament
    533 mm torpedoes, missiles 2
    400 mm torpedoes 8
    Mines 4

    http://www.aoosk.ru/en/products/piranha/


    Piranha
    Small submarine


    Cover transportation in submerged condition, landing and recovering of commandoes, patrol in shallow waters near shore, fighting against vessels and single surface ships, minelaying, reconnaissance.
    Specifications
    Displacement (normal) 220 m3
    Length 30 m
    Beam 4.7 m
    Maximum diving depth 200 m
    Endurance 10 days
    Submerged speed:
    full 6.6 knots
    economic 4 knots
    Complement 3
    Combat swimmers 6
    Range 1000 nm
    Continuous submerged range 260 nm
    Diesel generator 1 x 160 kW
    Propolsion motor 1 x 65 kW
    Armament
    44 mm torpedoes 2
    Mines 2
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    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:23 pm

    Some of these should interess Iran, north Korea and many more countries. Russian navy itself could be interested for closed waters like caspian sea or baltics. They are way more stealthier than any other ssk and can perform antishiping, mine laying, cruise missile attack and special forces transport very close to the enemy and inside enemy ports.
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    Post  Hole on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:55 pm

    Russian midget submarines P-55010
    Russian midget submarines P-75010
    Russian midget submarines Piranh10
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    Post  Hole on Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:57 pm

    Russian midget submarines 000116
    Russian midget submarines P-13010
    Russian midget submarines P-17010
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    Post  Cyberspec on Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:11 am

    Russian midget submarines Model_submarine_project_865_to_army_2015

    "VNEY" seems to be some sort of anaerobic propulsion system

    Russian "piranha" with VNEY survive 12 days under water

    Designed by Russian small non-nuclear submarine of the family "piranha" project P-750Б with air-independent (anaerobic) power plant (VNEU) is able to stay under water for up to 12 days, told RIA Novosti chief designer of "Malachite" Igor Karavaev.

    "On only one battery boat can not go more than three days, and with the use of VNEY — up to 12 days at a speed of four knots economic speed. Theoretically, all this time it can stay underwater, but the submarine must be periodically surface to determine the location, the reception of the radio session," — said the expert.

    According to him, developed "Malachite" VNEY differs from the existing foreign anaerobic plants based on fuel cells or Stirling engines.

    "Here a gas turbine operating in a closed cycle, that is, is stored on Board supply of liquid oxygen in cryogenic containers. Oxygen is supplied to the turbine as oxidizer and fuel used is diesel. Produced by the turbogenerator, electric current is used as a diagnostic system and movement. Current is supplied to the main motor and provides the movement of the submarine," said the designer.

    Karavayev noted high automatization and low noise design of the submarine, the crew of which is estimated at 15-20 people, and have a displacement of 1,400 tons. A conceptual design of a submarine implies the existence of lock chamber, capable at once secretly to take and launch six divers.

    Submarine family "piranha" project P-750Б can be built, according to the designer, in several variants, for example, attack with missiles "Caliber", which would be launched horizontally under water, special purpose (underwater special forces on Board) and as a mine layer.

    https://vpk.name/news/303836_rossiiskaya_piranya_s_vneu_vyiderzhit_12_sutok_pod_vodoi.html
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    Post  Isos on Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:26 pm

    I don't know if it is an official video but it's interesting. We see the new p-750b and also a typhoon modified for cruise missiles. I know it won't happen but the launcher is interesting if it is an official videi it would mean they are working on that.

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    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:36 am

    I think the inference regarding the P-750B class subs is that if they can fit full sized torpedoes they they can also carry cruise missiles that are the same size like Kalibr or Klub.

    I would have thought that a small nuclear reactor would be the best solution for AIP with electric drive motors... which makes me think this is intended for export and for low cost use (NPPs are not cheap).
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    Post  Isos on Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:49 am

    which makes me think this is intended for export and for low cost use (NPPs are not cheap).

    They would be very good in the baltics for RuN too.

    What I don't understand is why small navies don't buy some. Kilo is costly for many countries (450 million $ per sub) while this one is much simplier and cheaper to buy and to use. Specially for asian countries, they have plenty of shallow waters where it would be deadly like for exemple against chinese landing ships.

    Egypt whuch has only few subs to counter Israel, Tunisia, and Algeria should be also interested. Just like Syria but they don't have enough money.

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