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    Future Russian Aircraft Carriers and Deck Aviation. #3

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:49 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:I don't know why you keep saying this myth that they are designing their carriers according to a long-dead Soviet naval doctrine.
    Esp. after writing that the VMF will be tasked with SLOCs & friendly regimes' protection, which may include power projection ashore overseas, in the Southern & Western Hemispheres.
    There's a reason they spend a lot of $ sending Adm. K to Syria so their VMF could gain training & combat experience in that.

    That has nothing to do with designing carriers to a Soviet Standard.

    It would be cheaper at that point to build an airbase and stick some fighters there

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:06 am

    It would be cheaper at that point to build an airbase and stick some fighters there
    But according to him, that may not be enough to ensure Russia's overseas trade.
    The new maritime doctrine as far as CVNs r concerned will have some of the (AD/AD, etc.) old elements as well as new.
    So, he's contradicting himself. Fleet air defense doesn't exclude the need to be able to conduct air strikes deep into enemy territory. CMs won't last as long as cheaper bombs that can be launched from stand-off ranges.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:53 am

    Again this is not the Soviet Navy, Russians have shown they want US styled carriers.

    Then why do they include ski ramps for fighter takeoffs?

    US Styled carriers would have extra EM cats and a totally flat deck so they could all get heavily loaded strike aircraft launched rapidly to take down democracy and end peace where ever they want when ever they want.

    I don't know why you keep saying this myth that they are designing their carriers according to a long-dead Soviet naval doctrine.

    Yeah, you forget Russians don't think of aircraft the same way americans do... just look at the air defence capacity of the navy and army in Russia and in the US.

    The Russians don't expect air power to support them. The US expect air cover and support for everything they do.

    It would be cheaper at that point to build an airbase and stick some fighters there

    Build it where... after seeing what the US has done to Syria and Venezuela I am pretty sure not many countries want a Russian airbase on their land and why would Russia pay money to build an airbase they could lose control of with one vote at the elections?

    An aircraft carrier is an airfield they can move to where it is needed when it is needed.

    Fleet air defense doesn't exclude the need to be able to conduct air strikes deep into enemy territory.

    Well duh, why would they be talking about 4,500km range cruise missiles launched from Russian ships and subs if they didn't intended deep strikes inside enemy territory?

    But if they have 4,500km range cruise missiles why would they risk a dozen aircraft on the same mission?

    A few naval Su-57s flying at 20km altitude at mach 1.5 or so with 380km range air to air missiles like R-37M and any upgrades would be ideal for shooting at enemy AWACS platforms coordinating a defence against a cruise missile attack and of course other AAMs could be used against any fighter that rises up to try and stop said cruise missiles... there would be little real need to enter enemy air space at all.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:54 am

    That has nothing to do with designing carriers to a Soviet Standard.

    You've got to keep in mind that with the Russians being the good guys they will only go in to help a good side and not crush an entire people to their maniacal colonial will, like the US does all the time.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:17 am

    Because Russia has no functional catapults, they would love some but that Ramp is all they have ATM.

    Their AD sites, have nothing to do with an AC. The reason they invest so much in portable AD sites is that it's cheaper than trying to match NATO plane for plane. You are taking something way out of context.

    Yes, they do expect their air power to support them lol.

    If a country is important enough for Russia to send what would be one of their only two CV's at best, then that country should be on very good terms.

    They could simply allow Russia to park planes in an already built airbase, it would be much more expensive for Russia buck to buck to maintain a fleet offshore. This is economics 101.

    Ah save me the stick "Russia is the good guys" They would throw someone under the bus in a second if it suits them. They have their interests and we have ours that's all.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:01 am

    Seig wrote:
    Eh Navalized SU-57's aren't really needed, maybe in small amounts but Navalized SU-35's would do just fine.

    That's why they should buy the su-57 ... they need less than 20 jets for the K so the best thing to do is buy the best they have. Small quantity but strong capabilities.


    Big_Gazza wrote:

    Huge quantities?  Suspect  You've been reading too much LM sales literature....

    Believe it or not, that's the reality. Japan/south Korea are getting their f-35. China is getting its j-31 and stealth bomber. Poland/UK/israel/italy .... also are getting their f35. US are flying their F-22 around the world from anywhere they want.
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    Post  medo on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:47 am

    Isos wrote:Su-33 is still a huge target, specially if it is facing 5th generation fighters, that all russia's neighbours are buying in huge quantities, which drastically reduce the range of its radar against them while with its 20 m2 rcs it wil will be detected at max range.

    Its time to move on su-57K+r-77M as the su-57 is ready.

    Even with 15 su-57, Kuznetsov will be 10x better than it is actually. With kh-59mk2 it can also act as a nuclear deterrence and they would not have a nuclear triade but 4 means of striking as kuznetsov range + su-57 range+kh-59mk2 range means they can hit any country while being out of danger.

    Su-33 will leave carrier deck to MiG-29KR. It will have other duties over Arctic seas. They will be well avare of 5th gen fighters through OTH radars and water drops and ice also increase RCS on stealth planes as well. MiG-31BM will be there for high altitude interceptions, while Su-33 as multirole fighter will be for maritime patrols and to support arctic brigades and bases. Su-33 could carry heavier bombs and missiles than MiG-29KR. Su-33 could easily carry Kh-59MK2 missiles and they could also integrate Kalibr and Onyx anti-ship missiles as well. Su-30SM and Su-34 could use all those goodies as well, but they are primarely ground based fighters and are best suited to work over continent. They will protect continential Arctic area and bases and there will be more than enough space for them. Arctis islands and sea will be theatre for Su-33 and there will not be many 5th gen fighters around. Carriers will be far away because of ice, bases in Canada are far away as well and flying over North pole will increse their RCS because of ice. To shot down bombers and cruise missiles, Su-33 will be good enough.
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    Post  medo on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:04 pm

    Isos wrote:That's why they should buy the su-57 ... they need less than 20 jets for the K so the best thing to do is buy the best they have. Small quantity but strong capabilities.

    Kuz already have new MiG-29KR jets. Navalized Su-57 will be for a new carrier, when it will be built.


    Believe it or not, that's the reality. Japan/south Korea are getting their f-35. China is getting its j-31 and stealth bomber. Poland/UK/israel/italy .... also are getting their f35. US are flying their F-22 around the world from anywhere they want.

    And how many of them will fly over Arctic region? F-35 are expensive planes. How will bankrupt states maintain them? Era of incresing debt to maintain military is comming to the end. After that western armies will be in far worse condition that Russian army in the nineties. They will not have money for basic needs, not to say flying with F-35 around.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:43 pm

    Kuz already have new MiG-29KR jets. Navalized Su-57 will be for a new carrier, when it will be built

    It would be much better with su-57 rather than migs on its  deck.

    And how many of them will fly over Arctic region? F-35 are expensive planes. How will bankrupt states maintain them? Era of incresing debt to maintain military is comming to the end. After that western armies will be in far worse condition that Russian army in the nineties. They will not have money for basic needs, not to say flying with F-35 around.

    We are talking about the deck aviation of the K not about artic where it will never be deployed.

    Western have always and will always support their militaries. Most of them spend less than 2% of their GDP for their armies. So they can survive if they buy 60 or 70 f-35. If western don't have money for basic needs then what will be Russia situation ? You really think buying a fighter jet will collapse a country ? Are you serious ?

    Introduction of 5th generation fighters in big numbers is a reality.


    Last edited by Isos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:51 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Kuz already have new MiG-29KR jets. Navalized Su-57 will be for a new carrier, when it will be built

    It would be much better with su-57 rather than mogs on its  deck.
    If it will be a large carrier (above 70ktons) i believe it will have a mix of su-57k + smaller airplanes (maybe mig35k, maybe something else). Plus of course something covering the yak-44 role and several attack, multipurpose and ASW helicopters.

    For the 25k+ helicopter carriers they can instead have some attack helicopters (ka-52k, plus multipurpose, ASW and AE&W helicopters (ka-27,ka-29, ka,31 or minoga family helicopters)
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    Post  medo on Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:59 pm

    Isos wrote:We are talking about the deck aviation of the K not about artic where it will never be deployed.

    No, you were talking about Su-33.


    Western have always and will always support their militaries. Most of them spend less than 2% of their GDP for their armies. So they can survive if they buy 60 or 70 f-35. If western don't have money for basic needs then what will be Russia situation ? You really think buying a fighter jet will collapse a country ? Are you serious ?

    Western economies are based on debt.They spend more than what they produce and they need to take new credits every year to fill the gap, be it state budget, companies, banks or ordinary citizens. You could not take new credits for ever. There is a limit and when you go over it, you become unsolvent as you are no more able to service your debt ans went bankrupt. Whole EU is on the brink of bankruptsy because of high debt, including France and Germany. Most probably Italy will be the first to go bankrupt and its debt is too large for whole EU to cover it and prevent Italy to go bankrupt. After Italy all the rest will go bankrupt as well. Domino effect. Do you know what bankrupt mean? It mean there is no money there. All money you earn, will go to pay back your debt. 2% of 0 is still 0. Bankrupt state doesn't have money for army, pensions, health care, education, social programs,... Yes, they spend less than 2% of GDP for their armies and they still have to borrow a lot of money to fill the budget. So even those 2% is too much for their economies to cover. Public debt is simply too big and is still growing.

    Buying a fighter jet will not collapse the country, it will be too high debt that will collapse it. When bankrupt, those countries will not be able to service them and fly them. They will just rusting somewhere or they will sell them to get at least some money.

    Don't worry for Russia, because it is self suficient and those sanctions cut enouth ties, that collapse of the West will not take Russia to abbys with them.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:58 pm

    ..Su-33 as multirole fighter will be for maritime patrols and to support arctic brigades and bases.
    not over the "continental Arctic seas", i.e. over the Barents Sea only, that is mostly free of ice & because they r already based on Kola to be used on Adm. K & for training of naval pilots while the CV/Ns r not at sea.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:41 pm

    No, you were talking about Su-33

    I am talking about replacing su-33 by su-57 on kuznetsov because it suck compare to what it may face... you are the one talking about using it from ground.

    Western economies are based on debt.They spend more than what they produce and they need to take new credits every year to fill the gap, be it state budget, companies, banks or ordinary citizens. You could not take new credits for ever. There is a limit and when you go over it, you become unsolvent as you are no more able to service your debt ans went bankrupt. Whole EU is on the brink of bankruptsy because of high debt, including France and Germany. Most probably Italy will be the first to go bankrupt and its debt is too large for whole EU to cover it and prevent Italy to go bankrupt. After Italy all the rest will go bankrupt as well. Domino effect. Do you know what bankrupt mean? It mean there is no money there. All money you earn, will go to pay back your debt. 2% of 0 is still 0. Bankrupt state doesn't have money for army, pensions, health care, education, social programs,... Yes, they spend less than 2% of GDP for their armies and they still have to borrow a lot of money to fill the budget. So even those 2% is too much for their economies to cover. Public debt is simply too big and is still growing.

    That's total bullshit. Western countries control the world economy and rules it since more than 2000 years. Their debt is still controled by western so they can change the rules if they want.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:28 pm

    That control is coming to an end: the PRC #2 economy is now getting married with RF resources; Turkey & India r getting the game changing S-400s despite ongoing US sanctions, while the US & France r peddling weapons to Saudi Arabia, the UAE & India. Iran can wreck the Western economy by closing the Gulf to their oil shipping- to open it, NATO will need to go to a long war, & that may lead to a Pyrrhic victory, throwing the Western economies even farther back.
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    Post  medo on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:25 pm

    Isos wrote:I am talking about replacing su-33 by su-57 on kuznetsov because it suck compare to what it may face... you are the one talking about using it from ground.

    Su-33 on Kuznetsov is replaced by MiG-29KR. Naval Su-57 will be for new carrier, when it will be built. New carrier will not use old Su-33 and MiG-29KR and Kuznetsov will not use Su-57. Ru NAVY have now two regiments for one Kuznetsov carrier, which normaly use only one squadron of jets and helicopters. When we are talking about Su-33 used from ground bases, Su-33 regiment in 2015 officially take the duty of air defense over Kola peninsula from ground bases. In that time MiG-29KR was not yet operational. Now MiGs are operational and before Kuznetsov will be finnished their crews will get enough experiences in Yeysk and Saki training centers. Basic unit on Kuznetsov will now be a squadron of MiGs. If there will be a need, they could send a small group, of 2 or 4 Su-33 on carrier as well, but the rest will do their duties from ground airbases.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:50 pm

    Naval Su-57 will be for new carrier, when it will be built.
    u failed to include "if" before "when".
    IMO, the navalized Su-34 fighter-bombers would be even more effective on any new large carriers.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:42 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Naval Su-57 will be for new carrier, when it will be built.
    u failed to include "if" before "when".
    IMO, the navalized Su-34 fighter-bombers would be even more effective on any new large carriers.
    well, the su-34 are for sure better than the F-35 in dogfighting Laughing

    And probably not worse than a f18...

    The issue is if it would be worth to create a carrier version of it.
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    Post  Isos on Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:33 am

    With its huge rcs and radar that see not further than 90km normal targets, how could you think its better than su-33/57 ? It's a bomber with defensive capabilities against air threats not a multirile fighter.

    New carrier won't be build in the next decade. Su-33 are outdated just like Mig-29KR is also outdated.

    They have one carrier and if they want it to be useful they should load su-57 on it as soon as possible.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:42 am

    Isos wrote:With its huge rcs and radar that see not further than 90km normal targets, how could you think its better than su-33/57 ? It's a bomber with defensive capabilities against air threats not a multirile fighter.

    New carrier won't be build in the next decade. Su-33 are outdated just like Mig-29KR is also outdated.

    They have one carrier and if they want it to be useful they should load su-57 on it as soon as possible.

    The radar of the Su-34 has rather high amount of power that goes to it. It can see further than 90km against fighter sized target, that figures is from 90's actually.

    MiG-29K series use decent Zhuk-ME radar which in its starting era could see about 150km for fighter sized target and 300 for ship. Of course, newer receivers allow increased sensitivity and it gains increased performance.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:49 am

    Because Russia has no functional catapults, they would love some but that Ramp is all they have ATM.

    The Russians don't have any aircraft that would benefit from cats at the moment.

    Their future designs have two cats plus a ramp, which clearly means cats for AWACS and inflight refuelling aircraft... it means redundancy for the AWACS platform, but for fighter planes the ramp is faster to get fighters airborne.

    Their AD sites, have nothing to do with an AC. The reason they invest so much in portable AD sites is that it's cheaper than trying to match NATO plane for plane. You are taking something way out of context.

    All their forces are intended to be operating in environments where they can't guarantee air control or air dominance... army, navy, air force... all have their own AD that is not based on aircraft.

    Yes, they do expect their air power to support them lol.

    They use air power to improve their performance and capabilities, but they don't expect 24/7 air support.

    If a country is important enough for Russia to send what would be one of their only two CV's at best, then that country should be on very good terms.

    They could simply allow Russia to park planes in an already built airbase, it would be much more expensive for Russia buck to buck to maintain a fleet offshore. This is economics 101.

    Well lets take Venezuela as a recent example... the amount of warning given regarding the US attempt at a second coup in Venezuela means that boxing up some fighter planes and putting them into cargo ships and shipping them down to Venezuela was not a very practical proposition... sending some aircraft carriers for a joint exercise on the other hand would have been much more practical and sensible.

    No, those carriers would not be there to fight off US carriers or any such bullshit, but having Russian ships off the coast would be much more reassuring for the Venezuelan military at a time when they were being bribed or coerced into releasing prisoners and arming them to rise up and turn the country into a bloodbath of hate and chaos... you know... the sort of place American loves...


    Ah save me the stick "Russia is the good guys" They would throw someone under the bus in a second if it suits them. They have their interests and we have ours that's all.

    Obviously, but their interests in Syria was to keep a stable and working country, as are their interests in Venezuela, while American interests are terrorism and war and chaos... I can see why you think I should not be so quick to decide on who the good guys are because it will be 20-30 years of civil war before anyone knows who gets the oil if America gets their way...

    That's why they should buy the su-57 ... they need less than 20 jets for the K so the best thing to do is buy the best they have. Small quantity but strong capabilities.

    But they already have MiGs and Su-33s for that carrier. Working on a navalised model of the Su-57 is not a bad idea but there is no hurry... it wont be needed for a CVN until at least 2028 or so...

    They wont put the Su-33 back in to production so the only option for in production carrier aircraft is the dual use MiG-35s, but I think the Su-33 and Su-57s make sense for future use and production respectively.

    Believe it or not, that's the reality. Japan/south Korea are getting their f-35. China is getting its j-31 and stealth bomber. Poland/UK/israel/italy .... also are getting their f35. US are flying their F-22 around the world from anywhere they want.

    Yeah, I really don't see the 3,000 goal number ever being reached if they have such a pissy fit about Turkey using F-35s together with S-400... I mean if it wont work against such systems the Russia already have large numbers of S-400 in service are they going to block Poland from having F-35s... and if China has S-400 will Japan and South Korea be allowed any?

    And how many of them will fly over Arctic region? F-35 are expensive planes.

    Very good point.... they are not long range aircraft... and so an Su-33 could easily defeat an armata of F-35s by getting a decent AESA upgrade and using new long range AAMs to shoot down all the inflight refuelling aircraft...

    It would be much better with su-57 rather than migs on its deck.

    The MiGs are already paid for and in service...

    So they can survive if they buy 60 or 70 f-35. If western don't have money for basic needs then what will be Russia situation ? You really think buying a fighter jet will collapse a country ? Are you serious ?

    Have you seen Norways problems with F-35s? Their low readiness together with the high costs of operation mean they are really struggling to get ground crew and pilots rated to operate the aircraft...

    Will it be different for other countries?

    Perhaps that is why Trump said NATO countries should be paying 4% GDP for NATO... did he know?


    Introduction of 5th generation fighters in big numbers is a reality.

    Yeah, I remember... when they first talked about the F-22 and the B-2 they were going to be the future... 1,500 F-22s and hundreds of B-2s to replace B-52s... but the situation changed and what is it... 188 F-22s and 19 B-2s...

    Now we are told there is going to be 3,500 F-35s... well I guess 3,400 without Turkey...

    The real interesting thing is that F-15s can carry more weapons further and much faster than an F-35 but it seems neither will fly over Syrian air space any more... so which exactly is the better aircraft?


    Don't worry for Russia, because it is self suficient and those sanctions cut enouth ties, that collapse of the West will not take Russia to abbys with them.

    Good point. Pushing Russia away from the west has made her look at what she needs and to develop that herself.... I am calling Russia a her... that could get me arrested soon here in the west... I also call cars she and ships and aircraft she as well... it is neither anti the vehicle I am talking about nor anti women but the femenazis don't care... they are probably just pissed because my misspelling of femenazis included the word men....

    I am talking about replacing su-33 by su-57 on kuznetsov because it suck compare to what it may face... you are the one talking about using it from ground.

    If you are talking about a computer game where one F-35 and one Su-33 go head to head, one on one, with no other factors involved I would agree, but right now we are talking about what will be an Su-33 operating above about a dozen or more S-400 batteries with four or five dozen S-350 batteries and Tor and Pantsir and Verba as well as Tunguska times about 30...

    For flying out and looking at things and then flying back the Su-33 is actually faster and longer ranged than F-35s and the quality of radar and other sensors it carries can be changed with the addition of various pods...

    The MiG-29KR was produced because it was put into production for India, previously there were thoughts on replacing Su-33s... mostly with new Flankers actually like the Su-33KUB which looks like an Su-34 but with a round nose radar.

    The point is that the MiG and the Su-33 will likely continue to serve on the Kuznetsov for several decades to come... it is good enough for a range of duties.

    I rather suspect that when they get around to making a new carrier it will be a CVN and it wont be a 100K ton ship, it will be as they planned a 70-80K ton vessel most likely with some variant of the Su-57 because it is their best plane.

    Being smaller and lighter than the Su-33 but with rather more powerful engines and much less drag with internal weapon stores there is no reason why the Su-57K could not also operate on the Kuznetsov... except for the fact that it already has new planes to operate on it and with upgrades both the MiG and the Flanker could continue to be competitive for as long as the MiG-35 and Su-35 remain in service.

    Their new developments in new generation radar technology might render stealth a dead end white elephant and all the next generation aircraft might not bother with stealth at all.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:39 am

    The real interesting thing is that F-15s can carry more weapons further and much faster than an F-35 but it seems neither will fly over Syrian air space any more...
    any idea why the Israeli AF, having dozens of F-15/16s, got some F-35s? To support their aviation/avionics industry &/ for interoperability with NATO?
    AFAIK, Israel isn't as rich as Saudi Arabia or India, even with US credits for arms purchases.
    Btw, according to some reports, Turkey is now mulling ordering Su-35/57s for her AF.
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    Post  medo on Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:09 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    The real interesting thing is that F-15s can carry more weapons further and much faster than an F-35 but it seems neither will fly over Syrian air space any more...
    any idea why the Israeli AF, having dozens of F-15/16s, got some F-35s? To support their aviation/avionics industry &/ for interoperability with NATO?
    AFAIK, Israel isn't as rich as Saudi Arabia or India, even with US credits for arms purchases.
    Btw, according to some reports, Turkey is now mulling ordering Su-35/57s for her AF.

    Israel doesn't pay for weapons, US taxpayers do. Would Israel do so many strikes in Syria with expensive guided bombs and missiles, if they have to pay for them? Of course not. But when US taxpayers pay for them it is not a problem and when they run out of them, US bring new free of charge.
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    Post  medo on Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:43 am

    Naval Su-57 will be developed together with new carrier and will not serve on Kuznetsov as it already have new fighter regiment of MiGs for her service life. When new carrier will be built, Kuznetsov will be in reservem used for extended defense of Russian northern coast and northern shiping route. New carrier will be used for long ocean voyages, while Kuznetsov will be closer to the russian coast. To do their job there, they will work together with new Arctika nuclear icebreakers or at least with Ilya Muromets, which could also tug the carrier in ice. They could go, where other carriers could not.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:42 pm

    When new carrier will be built, Kuznetsov will be in reservem used for extended defense of Russian northern coast and northern shiping route.
    I admire the knowledge of maritime matters u display, considering ur landlocked location! I, OTH, grew up/lived on the coasts & sailed on all the oceans except the Arctic, & now live an hour drive away from the Sea of Cortez, which is part of the Pacific.
    Their CGNs, DD/FFGs, OPVs, Su-34s, MiG-31s+U/CAVs & AShMs at bases along the NSR will be enough for that; except to transit, no need to waste time & $ sending the Adm. K there.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add text)
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    Post  medo on Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:49 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    When new carrier will be built, Kuznetsov will be in reservem used for extended defense of Russian northern coast and northern shiping route.
    I admire the knowledge of maritime matters u display, considering ur landlocked location! I, OTH, grew up/lived on the coasts & sailed on all the oceans except the Arctic, & now live an hour drive away from the Sea of Cortez, which is part of the Pacific.
    Their CGNs, DD/FFGs, OPVs, Su-34s, MiG-31s+U/CAVs & AShMs at bases along the NSR will be enough for that; except to transit, no need to waste time & $ sending the Adm. K there.

    True, I'm not a sailor and I didn't sailing on the oceans. but it is still not hard to see the importance of Northern sea route for Russia. Baltic and Black sea are land locked seas and their exits are not in Russian hands. Russia have free exit to open ocean in the north through Arctic ocean and in Far East to Pacific ocean. The main Russian economy is still in European part of Russia and far eastern ports are too far away. Northern ports are very important and not only for oil and gas. After Crimean bridge, Russia will build Arctic railroad to improve transportation capabilities to northern towns and natural resources.

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