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    Amphibious assault ships for the Russian Navy

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:10 am

    They'll have escorts.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:25 pm

    If built in Kerch they'll need a heavy UKSK armament to be able to leave the Black Sea.

    Not really

    They will be LHDs, not aircraft carriers

    Remember that one of Mistrals was supposed to be stationed in the Black Sea

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:28 pm

    Remember that one of Mistrals was supposed to be stationed in the Black Sea

    Bullshit.

    "We now understand that these vehicles need the Northern and Pacific fleet," - said the Minister.

    https://ria.ru/20100524/237875198.html

    Why would they need reinforced hulls for ice in the Black Sea and Med?
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:30 am

    To be fair, big areas of the Asov Sea + the Kerch Strait freezes in winter, so if these new UDK don't have deep draft, they could be pressed to service & go there.
    Also in some years floating ice from Dniepr builds up & freezes solid in the NW part of the Black Sea near Odessa.
    Like the ASW carriers Moskva & Leningrad, that class will be transitory until bigger & better UDKs r built.
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    william.boutros

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    Post  william.boutros on Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:02 pm

    1- The small scale deployment of Russian troops in Syria cannot be replicated in the pacific. Russia will be opposed and fighting against other navies and large countries. These ships would be too small and too few to be of value.
    2- In the north there is no immediate need for such large landing ships.
    3- These carriers would be OK for policing missions in low intensity areas and against weak adversaries such as the middle east, Africa and South America.
    4- These carriers depending on their configuration can also serve an antisubmarine role.

    The most likely reason for these 2 carriers is to have a versatile platform for exercises on Kurill and building on it and expeditionary force deployment.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:10 pm

    william.boutros wrote:1- The  small scale deployment of Russian troops in Syria cannot be replicated in the pacific. Russia will be opposed and fighting against other navies and large countries. These ships would be too small and too few to be of value.
    2- In the north there is no immediate need for such large landing ships.
    3- These carriers  would be OK for policing missions in low intensity areas and against weak adversaries such as the middle east, Africa and South America.
    4- These carriers depending on their configuration can also serve an antisubmarine role.

    The most likely reason for these 2 carriers is to have a versatile platform for exercises on Kurill and building on it and expeditionary force deployment.

    I think number 4 is more or less primary reason for their design, everything else is distant second

    Just look at Japan and Izumo
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    Post  william.boutros on Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:36 pm

    PapaDragon wrote: think number 4 is more or less primary reason for their design, everything else is distant second

    Just look at Japan and Izumo

    Should be, Izumo is double the suggest size of the Russian Carrier.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:31 am

    Put a single iskander launchers with greater range like 3000 km with a nuk warhead on the deck and it would solve your 1st point Laughing
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    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:32 am

    william.boutros wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote: think number 4 is more or less primary reason for their design, everything else is distant second

    Just look at Japan and Izumo

    Should be, Izumo is double the suggest size of the Russian Carrier.

    Izumo will be as good as those useless carriers carrying Harriers.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:10 am

    Isos wrote:
    william.boutros wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote: think number 4 is more or less primary reason for their design, everything else is distant second

    Just look at Japan and Izumo

    Should be, Izumo is double the suggest size of the Russian Carrier.

    Izumo will be as good as those useless carriers carrying Harriers.

    I wonder if Argentinians and Iraqis think they are useless...

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    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:55 am

    I wonder if Argentinians and Iraqis think they are useless...

    I am sure the Argentinians are glad they didn't have real carriers with AWACS and proper jets with BVR missiles like the Ark Royal, because if they did Argentina might not have even invaded the Malvinas in the first place... even with a woman in charge.

    The motivation behind the purchase of the Mistrals was a fire brigade force that could be moved and deployed relatively rapidly to places where it was needed... the carrier in the Pacific fleet would be used to cover the Kurile islands... because experience in South Ossetia showed that Russia could not expect any reasonable reaction from the west and therefore the international community over border violations regarding Russian territory or the territory of those friendly to Russia, so obviously an attack by Japan on the Kuriles means the Russian military needs to sort out the problem itself and one Mistral would be part of the solution, moving Russian naval infantry in cooperation with the VDV forces and Naval forces to seize the territory taken back.

    I rather suspect the first two Mistrals would both have been at the Pacific Fleet base... if they ended up buying two more... which was their intention... they would operate in the northern fleet and act as an arctic mobile force to deal with any problems great or small regarding the arctic islands.

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:09 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    william.boutros wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote: think number 4 is more or less primary reason for their design, everything else is distant second

    Just look at Japan and Izumo

    Should be, Izumo is double the suggest size of the Russian Carrier.

    Izumo will be as good as those useless carriers carrying Harriers.

    I wonder if Argentinians and Iraqis think they are useless...


    Argentina could have won if they had 10 exocet more and if the germans didn't sabotaged their torpedos.
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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:31 pm

    william.boutros wrote:1- The  small scale deployment of Russian troops in Syria cannot be replicated in the pacific. Russia will be opposed and fighting against other navies and large countries. These ships would be too small and too few to be of value.
    2- In the north there is no immediate need for such large landing ships.

    Of course there are - to rapidly deploy reinforcements, coastal defence systems and air defence systems - as they've been practising doing lately. Deploy some Bastion-Ps to eastern Kamchatka, Chukotka, Sakhalin or wherever, as the situation calls for it.

    And amphibious assaults will be neccessary to take back captured territory and islands.

    That the Pacific Fleet is rather small and outdated compared to its possible adversaries is a different problem, that should be solved seperately - although I think that Russia's air assets here would be a powerful force multiplier.

    3- These carriers  would be OK for policing missions in low intensity areas and against weak adversaries such as the middle east, Africa and South America.

    From the Pacific they have reach to South America, from the Arctic Ocean they have reach to the Medittaranean and thus Africa and South America. From the Arctic moveover, they can deploy equipment to any point along the Arctic coast; it will be an element of the Arctic force that Russia is building up up there (I'm still not convinced of the force's neccessity, but since they're doing it then they might as well do it right).

    The expeditionary element of going to different continents and regions is important, but most important is Russia's own defense; and from the Northern and Pacific fleets they'll be able to achieve both.

    Although I would also argue that the Black Sea fleet needs a vessel of this kind; possible conflicts against Georgia and the Ukraine, and faster access to the Meditteranean. Have two in the Pacific, one in the Arctic and one in the Black Sea. If the Black Sea one is in service/repair, then the Artic one can always take up the slack for whatever developing situation in the Meditteranean and Black Sea. And a helicopter carrier landing ship in the Pacific can always take up the slack for the one in the Arctic; if that one is under service/repair or more capacity in theatre is needed.

    The Baltic Sea meanwhile could use some an additional few smaller, faster, conventional landing ships.

    4- These carriers depending on their configuration can also serve an antisubmarine role.

    Again more useful in this regard in the Arctic and Pacific, than in the Baltic, Black Sea and Medditerranean.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:30 pm

    Isos wrote:....Argentina could have won if they had 10 exocet more and if the germans didn't sabotaged their torpedos.

    Japan could have defeated USA had they been able to destroy US Navy

    But they didn't

    There are no second place prizes in war, no amount of excuses changes that

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:44 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:....Argentina could have won if they had 10 exocet more and if the germans didn't sabotaged their torpedos.

    Japan could have defeated USA had they been able to destroy US Navy

    But they didn't

    There are no second place prizes in war, no amount of excuses changes that


    Agree but you can learn fom that. And it seem UK learned nothing, their navy is no better in today's stabdards than the one that strugled against Argentina's outdated and small (like really small they had less than 10 exocets) navy.

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    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:47 am

    Agree but you can learn fom that. And it seem UK learned nothing, their navy is no better in today's stabdards than the one that strugled against Argentina's outdated and small (like really small they had less than 10 exocets) navy.

    Yeah, it is OK... we lost ships, but the Soviets don't have any sea skimming anti ship missiles as potent as the exocet... in the early 1980s... hahahaha.

    They did add pintle mounts for rifle calibre machine guns I believe... the Soviets also added pintle mounts for HMGs on all their ships just after that conflict too.


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