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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:41 am

    Well, they don't have a ready to use invasion fleet, which is a good thing because that really would have been a lot of wasted money if they did... the core capabilities are there... they have ballistic nuke subs to prevent the west thinking they can win WWIII.

    They have some corvettes with armament levels comparable to cold war Soviet destroyers, but obviously smaller and lacking endurance to do what bigger ships actually do.

    The designs are modular so the bits are now working... it is just a question of designing and building bigger vessels that will have more modular bits on platforms that can operate globally without land based air support.

    They have effectively created an AEGIS system that works on all their ships, subs, aircraft, and satellites to share information across platforms which is an enormous step forward many navies have yet to take.

    What Russia needs to do now politically is look to the rest of the world and develop trade ties on equal terms and both help the world grow and develop and grow and develop on with them... different to the western model where they ripped off the third world and tried to keep them in their place while exploiting their resources to become rich itself.

    They wont have new really big ships for more than a decade, but the ones they have will be more than enough for what they need them for with fairly minor upgrades and improvements.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:50 pm

    Anyway, it sounds a bit too critical, especially now that they have modern powerplants, sensors and weapon system for a proper destroyer.

    The long trip of the gorshkov frigate showed that they moved in the proper direction.

    22350 are excellent ships, and probably the best frigates in the world, but they lack range and endurance for long trips, unless accompanied by tankers and support/ replenishment ships.


    They just need a ship with double the endurance of the 22350 and with the size of a Udaloy class destroyer, and that is the 22350M. Of course it will take time before they are ready, hoping that they start soon with their production.



    In the meanwhile long range expedition by surface fleet will be done by the remaining Udaloys (some of which are being modernised), by the 2 operational Slava class cruisers ("Moskva" fate is still to be decided) and by the available battlecruiser (Peter the Great/ Nakhimov).

    It is not a large long range fleet, but it is okayish for the next few years, if keeping the same level of long range expeditions as in the last 10 years


    Navy does not have ships capable of providing effective fire support to the coastal flank of the army or landing force, as well as to escort the latter in the operational depth.

    Actually the lack of proper naval gunfire support is a problem shared also by the US Navy and pointed out many times by the US marine corp.

    The Russians have big guns also in the small corvettes (100mm gun in the buyan M), and while they lack blue sea capabilities, they could for sure be used in black sea operations.

    They had 4 (2x2) large (130mm) guns in their sovremenny class destroyers and they still have some of them in operation and in reserve, if needed.

    Assault and attack helicopters in the new amphibious ships will also help, but such ships are not ready yet, and anyway helicopters cannot fully substitute naval artillery.

    Some of the "crazy" Garry's ideas could be quite interesting also, like finding a naval platform for the 152 mm Koalitia artillery gun!
    Gibraltar
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    Post  Gibraltar on Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:05 am

    The shopping list to get a full-scale navy it's not so large.
    Essentially they lack in power projection not in defrnce capabilities.

    For politics reasons they should have 4 battle groups.
    Northern, Pacific, Mediterranean and a last one to support far away operations.
    These battlegroups should be each composed of few advancdd and big units, all nuclear powered.
    1 carrier, 1 battlestar (stupid to dismantle first 2 kirovs, better keep them afloat now and radically refurbish them, even nuclear propulsion, in future) 1 destroyer 1 ssgn and 1 ssn.

    With this "CBG" model they're fully potent all over the world with 20 high-level ships. It's not too much effort considering that they have to build from scratch only the 4 carriers and the 4 destroyers and some ssn and ssgn.

    Can't afford such a dream-team? Again, keep all the Kirovs, even if of them could be saved only the hulls it's so much time and money saved than starting from white sheet. A hull is hull and modern reactor and turbines are not so radically different from Kirovs internal layout. With modern reactors they could even free the space taken buy boilers and overheaters. I'll never understand why to waste the opportunity of getting 4 battlestars instead of 2 in a matter of 10 years.
    Gibraltar
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    Post  Gibraltar on Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:09 am

    To keep minimal blue wwter capabilities, at least 2 nuclear carriers and 4 nuclear destroyers are needed. Kirovs and Yasens will do the rest without the need of support vessels.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:49 am

    An important part of planning and management is how much money do you have to spend, and what do you ultimately want to end up with, but also a time scale when you want to get things you need into service.

    There would be no point blowing out the budget right now laying down a CVN or getting the Chinese to whack one out for them in 3-5 years... first of all they don't have the facilities free to properly dock it, the land based infrastructure does not exist for it yet, and you wouldn't have enough large ships to operate with it in the first place.

    Remember in western navies the carrier is the key vessel and all the ships and subs that operate with it are there to support it.

    For the Russians it is the surface and subsurface vessels that are the Navy... the carrier is just there to provide air cover and protection for those ships beyond the reach of Russian land based air power.

    That means they really need to start producing those 7,000 ton Gorshkov destroyers, and those 20K ton cruisers before it even makes sense to build NEW carriers... by the mid 2030s they will need to have a new CVN in the water and likely with cats and Su-57K aircraft and some form of shipboard AWACS platform.

    Their planning and production so far have not wasted their budget and are laying the groundwork getting brand new cruise and anti ship missiles operational right down to Corvette level... new AESAs and a unified battle management system are all in place and a range of brand new gun systems have entered service now too. All the components are there... to scale things up just requires new propulsion... and with 7K and 20K ton vessels nuke propulsion becomes an obvious choice, perhaps electric drive delaying things a little but making it all worth the effort... and just bigger sensors and more UKSK launchers and more SAM tubes and eventually just universal missile launch systems like UKSK-M that can carry anything... what is not to like.
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:56 am

    Russian missile cruiser makes call at port of Algiers in long-distance deployment

    The visit will last several days

    MOSCOW, August 26. /TASS/. The Russian Northern Fleet’s missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov has made a business call at the port of Algiers, the Fleet’s press office reported on Monday.

    "The visit by the Northern Fleet’s sailors will last several days, during which Russia’s Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the republic Igor Belyaev will come aboard the ship. Also, excursions to the cruiser will be organized for the families of the embassy’s staff and representatives of the Algerian Navy," the press office said in a statement.

    Chief of Staff of the Northern Fleet’s division of guided missile ships Captain 1st Rank Andrei Saloshin and missile cruiser commander Captain 1st Rank Vladimir Kuzmin will hold meetings with the command of the Algerian Navy.

    During its business call, the crew will replenish foods supplies, the press office said.

    The guided missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov entered the Mediterranean Sea on August 22. The warship departed the Northern Fleet’s main naval base of Severomorsk on July 3 to take part in Russia’s Main Naval Parade in St. Petersburg on July 28. After the parade, the missile cruiser’s crew took part in the Russian Navy’s large-scale exercise Ocean Shield 2019. After it left its home base, the missile cruiser has covered a distance of about 9,000 nautical miles.

    Guided missile cruisers of this type are designated to fight a potential enemy’s surface ships and provide for the combat survivability of the Navy’s forces in distant waters. The development of these missile cruisers started back in the first half of the 1970s. Overall, four warships of this type were built. Three of them are operational in the Russian Navy.

    The guided missile cruisers of this Project displace 11,500 tonnes and are 186 meters long. They can develop a full sea speed of 32 knots and deploy to a range of 7,500 miles at a speed of 18 knots. Guided missile cruisers of this project feature 130mm AK-130 artillery guns, striking and surface-to-air missile systems, 30mm AK-630M small-caliber air defense artillery complexes and torpedo armament. The guided missile cruisers can carry a Ka-27 helicopter or its modification on their deck. They have a crew of up to 510 men.

    https://tass.com/defense/1075086
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:46 am

    During the naval exercises, the military worked out the undercover withdrawal of nuclear submarines from the base point.

    To achieve the goal, operational crews from radiation, chemical and biological protection created an aerosol screen while a special forces unit used grenades against the underwater sabotage forces.

    The Russan Defence Ministry has published a video of the exercises on its website.

    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:40 pm

    @RALee85
    ·
    14m
    The Black Sea Fleet's Vyshniy Volochyok Project 21631 Buyan-M small missile ship fired a Kalibr cruise missile at a simulated ship target at a range of 40km. The test fire is part of a large-scale Southern Military District exercise involving 8.2k troops.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1167472977065197569


    Video in the link. Impact of the missile at the end of the video. I think it's the first time they use it. It proves Buyan can launch anti ship missiles, it was said before they couldn't because of lack of targeting radar.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:15 pm

    Plans on creating erkoplans with a takeoff mass of 800 tons have been created:



    Erkoplans would be the perfect carrier for torpedoes and Ashms like Zircon, with the ability to fly extremely low and with the a ridiculous large payload capacity...like maybe +10-15 Zircons and another +10-15 torpedoes (a conservative weapons payload) and the rest of the payload as additional fuel.
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    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:29 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Plans on creating erkoplans with a takeoff mass of 800 tons have been created:

    I just posted the same video in the Ekranoplan thread before seeing your one Smile
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:42 am

    Amphibious assault and ASW are also possible missions. In the video the large one carried a submersible and put it directly into the water, so it could also carry a Poseidon.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:03 pm

    Video in the link. Impact of the missile at the end of the video. I think it's the first time they use it. It proves Buyan can launch anti ship missiles, it was said before they couldn't because of lack of targeting radar.

    Russian ships and subs and aircraft and satellites are fitted with the Sigma data sharing battle management system... a small ship doesn't need to see its target to receive target data to launch a missile... whether against an air or sea or subsea target.
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    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:26 pm

    In this case, with the target 40km away, I would say the ship used it´s MR-352 radar (under the radome on top of the mast) to detect the target. Some last solution to defend itself if all external systems fail.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:42 am

    Actually if you read the messages below the video I think it is mentioned that the original article says 40 nautical miles, which they say is more like 75km...

    The point is that Corvettes and subs were used to launch missiles in Syria against ground targets over 1,000km away... they didn't use their own sensors to find those targets, and even a cruiser wouldn't have been able to detect those targets on its own... with 2,500km range cruise missiles there is no way to find targets for yourself with your own sensors whether you are a crusier, aircraft carrier, or corvette... but that is OK... that is what satellites and special forces on the ground are for.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:21 pm

    Russian submarines out of order in Syria
    https://lenta.ru/news/2019/09/05/submarine/
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:53 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Russian submarines out of order in Syria
    https://lenta.ru/news/2019/09/05/submarine/

    So they were even importing sub batteries?

    Classic losers
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:01 am

    The US is importing Russian rocket engines, so they r also losers!
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:41 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The US is importing Russian rocket engines, so they r also losers!

    And are making crapload of their own

    So where are Russian batteries then?

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    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:05 am

    So they were even importing sub batteries?

    Classic losers

    Information from a website whose owner... lives in the Ukraine...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:14 am

    Even if they use imported 1s, I'm sure more r in storage &/ some can be removed from other subs & flown in from Russia.
    But if true, IMO they will eliminate that dependency by making their own.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:32 am

    I wonder where they used to buy them ? The only country that russia could buy from are France, Germany and italy. But none of them is known for being a leader in batteries.

    China is the biggest producer of batteries of all type with other asian countries. They can easily buy from them or buy a production line. It's not a high tech, it's the same batteries as in smartphones.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:57 pm

    Update: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/09/06/admiral/
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:14 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Update: https://lenta.ru/news/2019/09/06/admiral/

    So the story was simply more of the usual pro-NATOstani 5th-column liberast fuktardery... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:30 pm

    Diesel-electric submarines use lead-acid batteries as do large UPS systems for computer centers. If treated correctly, such batteries
    can last decades. We are not dealing with lithium batteries that can start to burn under the right conditions. Or some other
    battery type like the rechargeable nickel batteries where there is irreversible capacity decline with every cycle.

    Importing lead-acid batteries is a cost saving measure and not some epic security fail. There is actually an issue with lead-acid
    batteries in that they emit hydrogen gas. This gas has to be properly handled in a system like a submarine. It is possible that
    western batteries had superior hydrogen venting features. But that is not something that Russia can never develop by itself.

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:21 am

    Garry, this topic is over. The admiral stated the batteries are local.

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