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    Russian Navy: Status and News #5

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    Post  kvs on Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:21 am

    Fire indicates electrical fire in this context. And that is just gross incompetence. Hack wiring is for private houses and not top secret submersibles.
    Some collection of clowns who built/designed the submersible decided to wing it instead of actually doing the calculations and those calculations
    are based on universal linear Maxwell equations. They did not need the fastest supercomputers on the planet to wire this contraption.

    But these days such problems are becoming endemic including in aircraft construction.

    https://www.aeroinside.com/incidents/type/b788/boeing-787-8-dreamliner

    All those who were involved in the building of this POS device need to be investigated. Heads must roll down to the lowest worker level.


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    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:44 am

    They could as easily have been experimenting with AIP alternatives at much greater depths than most conventional subs will be operating.

    For all we know it might have been a battery on a device like a tablet or laptop computer, there are plenty of potential reasons for fire on a sub.
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:01 pm

    Eh it's only criminal if they ignored any potential warning signs from the Battery Area. Technology can be fine one minute then crap out the next.

    Subs are all checked out before they depart base, long has all the checks came up green and no one made any mistake or ignored anything.

    You really can't hold anyone accountable at a criminal level.

    Now if they can prove someone didn't do their job, then imo give them the chair.

    Putin cannot afford another Kursk backlash, if he can pin the blame on someone he will.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:53 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....

    Putin cannot afford another Kursk backlash, if he can pin the blame on someone he will.


    They had almost as many Russian corpses on that Indian Akula long ago as a result of pure unfiltered stupidity and there was nothing even resembling backlash

    Public opinion works differently than what internet would lead you to think


    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:03 pm

    Putin has nothing to do with the Kursk or this sub. He was mostly attacked because he was on vacation when Kursk sunked which is nothing wrong because presidents can have hollidays too, that's only journalists trying to make stories from nothing on him.

    An accident is an accident. You can't do anything to make them not happen and can't predict when they will happen.

    The fire started in the batterie room. I don't think the crew made any mistake. Batteries are very dangerous. Apple and Samsung batteries use to explode at people's faces very often. My own batterie on my samsung some months ago started to inflate for no reason and almost exploded.
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    Post  marat on Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:32 pm

    Isos wrote:
    An accident is an accident. You can't do anything to make them not happen and can't predict when they will happen.

    \

    This approach is reason why Russia have much more accidents then other nations.

    You could and you should do a lot of things for preventing accidents, and if you do them you will have much less accidents.

    Russia lost 152 sailor in submarine tragedies in last 20 years.

    That is more, much more then the rest of the world lost.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:38 pm

    Isos wrote:Putin has nothing to do with the Kursk or this sub. He was mostly attacked because he was on vacation when Kursk sunked which is nothing wrong because presidents can have hollidays too, that's only journalists trying to make stories from nothing on him.

    An accident is an accident. You can't do anything to make them not happen and can't predict when they will happen.

    The fire started in the batterie room. I don't think the crew made any mistake. Batteries are very dangerous. Apple and Samsung batteries use to explode at people's faces very often. My own batterie on my samsung some months ago started to inflate for no reason and almost exploded.

    Boy when Kursk happened there was a national backlash, Putin assigned a committee to see what happened, the guy was a noob back then he didn't realize the people have to see you involved. He was holiday also that is true, he had to can that and get involved in that fiasco because the russian people were foaming at the mouth. He was getting tons of shit over it not from reports but from ordinary people.

    You have a very very specific memory, don't you?

    When you are PRESIDENT EVERYTHING has to do with you.


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:41 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:.....

    Putin cannot afford another Kursk backlash, if he can pin the blame on someone he will.


    They had almost as many Russian corpses on that Indian Akula long ago as a result of pure unfiltered stupidity and there was nothing even resembling backlash

    Public opinion works differently than what internet would lead you to think



    There was backlash over that it's just Putin blocks the media out of it, he doesn't want that stuff seen.

    There was backlash over many of his grand military mistakes, The Russians who got downed by Isreal, All these Sub incidents.

    Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist Papa,
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:08 pm

    Back then, the officers and admirals were the same as during USSR. They were teached to shut up and say nothing. One of the admirals talked too much and was fired the very next day.

    I understand that families want to know what happened but people in general are just wishing for more stories to talk about especially journalists.

    Submarines, nuclear ones, are the most secret pieces of equipment in armies. There is nothing wrong to hide to what happened as long as families get answers.


    US are no better. They lost also submarines and entire crews just like french too. They also hide many death from iraqi wars. Many associations work against your gov for iraqi wars. Israel also destroy in a non human way one of your ship bombing it for hours and your navy still has hate towards them for that but it was a "mistake". You can't declare war against mistakes.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:18 pm

    Isos wrote:Back then, the officers and admirals were the same as during USSR. They were teached to shut up and say nothing. One of the admirals talked too much and was fired the very next day.

    I understand that families want to know what happened but people in general are just wishing for more stories to talk about especially journalists.

    Submarines, nuclear ones, are the most secret pieces of equipment in armies. There is nothing wrong to hide to what happened as long as families get answers.


    US are no better. They lost also submarines and entire crews just like french too. They also hide many death from iraqi wars. Many associations work against your gov for iraqi wars. Israel also destroy in a non human way one of your ship bombing it for hours and your navy still has hate towards them for that but it was a "mistake". You can't declare war against mistakes.

    there is nothing wrong with what happened?. Are you joking me? there are tons wrong with what happened.

    They lost a set of highly experienced sailors. many people where shit canned after Kursk, Putin had to appease the people.

    Now sure it could have very well been a freak accident it happens, but Russia has more Sub "Accidents" than anyone else. You're literally making up excuses for the Government.

    If this was a mistake that could have been avoided then no it's not "Fine". It this was due to someone's incompetence then I guess your fine with bodies pilling up.

    Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

    So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines.

    What does a ground war have to do with Subs, Iso? don't bring up subjects that have nothing to do with the point. Which is something you like to do bring up totally irrelevant points to justify your argument.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:02 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote: ......
    Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

    So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines. .....


    Also USA operates far larger number of submarines than Russia with larger crew complements for much longer periods of time annually
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    Post  Isos on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:58 pm

    there is nothing wrong with what happened?. Are you joking me? there are tons wrong with what happened.

    They lost a set of highly experienced sailors. many people where shit canned after Kursk, Putin had to appease the people.

    Now sure it could have very well been a freak accident it happens, but Russia has more Sub "Accidents" than anyone else. You're literally making up excuses for the Government.

    If this was a mistake that could have been avoided then no it's not "Fine". It this was due to someone's incompetence then I guess your fine with bodies pilling up.

    Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

    So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines.

    What does a ground war have to do with Subs, Iso? don't bring up subjects that have nothing to do with the point. Which is something you like to do bring up totally irrelevant points to justify your argument.

    First I never said there is nothing wrong with accident but it's ok the fact that they don't give details about them because they are secret weapons. Don't make me say what I didn't say.

    Second, Kursk happened in 99 when they were bankrupt and suffered of Eltsin era. The sub was build in a destroyed country, crew was probably not trained enough because of lack of money. Shipyards had lost many engineers that left for west. The rescue was a disaster but on purpose because they are clearly hiding something about that.

    This accident was a fire that started in batteries room. How do you know someone did something wrong and the batteries didn't just react badly and started a fire ? Your subs use only nuclear energy which is well mastered by your crews. Batteries are more likely to start fires.

    Other accident were in shipyards. They have nothing to do with the navy.

    Finally, you were the one talking about reaction of people against gov' for soldiers deaths. I just took your country as an exemple that it is the same thing for USA (you also hide the truth) and not specifical to Putin. I don't bring up subjects to justify my arguments I just used the same arguments as you against you.
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    Post  x_54_u43 on Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:21 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote: ......
    Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

    So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines. .....


    Also USA operates far larger number of submarines than Russia with larger crew complements for much longer periods of time annually

    You all just gonna give a total pass to the USA for the Fitzgerald and the McCain huh? Sure they are surface ships, which makes it worse. Let's not forget the Helge Ingstad as well if we're talking the West as a whole.

    But of course, "Russia bad! Russia boat bad! Russian dumb!"
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:40 pm

    x_54_u43 wrote:......
    You all just gonna give a total pass to the USA for the Fitzgerald and the McCain huh? Sure they are surface ships, which makes it worse. Let's not forget the Helge Ingstad as well if we're talking the West as a whole.
    .....


    Folks tend to expect more from people who operate nuclear powered submersibles

    McCain had 10 copses and Fitzgerald had 7 while Losharik had 14

    So there were slightly more in two separate US disasters than in one Russian, add Akula in the mix and Russia is back in the lead

    Also crashes of conventional surface ships will never be anywhere near as bad as even one nuclear submarine, USA will need to have 10 McCains and Fitzgeralds to look as bad as Russia does with just one nuclear fu*kup

    Conventional and nuclear are never the same

    It would be nice if Russia could get her head out of it's ass for once and get this sorted out: submarines, ships, spacecraft, airplanes, industry, it's always the same thing over and over again and they aren't doing anything to fix it



    It's not fate or destiny at work, it's callousness, incompetence and irresponsibility

    Which leads us to:

    Isos wrote:......
    Second, Kursk happened in 99 when they were bankrupt and suffered of Eltsin era. The sub was build in a destroyed country, crew was probably not trained enough because of lack of money. Shipyards had lost many engineers that left for west. The rescue was a disaster but on purpose because they are clearly hiding something about that. ....


    Kursk happened because of poorly designed torpedo which wasn't properly inspected upon delivery

    There were no complex reasons behind it just people not doing their job or halfassing it



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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:16 am

    Eh, and US Boeing Max 8 Lost two planes carrying lots of people in a very short time from each other....

    The problem is - what can you do? You say Russia isn't doing anything about it but that is furthest from the truth.

    Every MiC plant has essentially undergone heavy modernization using now super computers for designing planes, ships, subs, etc. They are all getting brand spanking new auto CNC machinery and QC Lazer devices. For Everytime a disaster hits, they fire or jail the management that may have been involved in the incident. Hell, as example one ran away from Russia after investigation started.

    Problem is, majority of the accidents. No, all the accidents happened to devices built during the wild 90's (excluding proton rocket fuckups). All those Yak-130's that have dropped from the skies were built late 90's/early 2000 (early batches before full production much much later).

    Only real solution is to scrap everything made prior to 2010 and to build replacements. Which is not a good idea as it leaves Russia with a lot less defense. Hell, you can shut the whole plant down, re open it with new staff and all, but it won't solve a single damn thing.

    Inspections? Yes, they inspect it. If inspection passes, then what? Fire the inspectors even though they did their job properly? And what if they really didn't find an issue.

    Yes, Kursk was a fuckups because of a torpedo fuckup. That is onus on the maker of the torpedo. The Nerpa incident? That falls on one guy playing around with the fire extinguishing system that caused the freon to go off and suffocate 20 crew members (a lot of them were civillians might I add). So how do you deal with that? Fire everyone onboard the ship after they are dead or were not involved? Train new crew not to touch it (which I guarantee they were already)?

    Yeah, Russia has a lot of submarine accidents. Strange thing is, some is either just shit luck (this incident) or stupidity of an individual (Nerpa) or incompetence of a producer of a torpedo (Kursk).
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:12 am


    This approach is reason why Russia have much more accidents then other nations.

    You could and you should do a lot of things for preventing accidents, and if you do them you will have much less accidents.

    Russia lost 152 sailor in submarine tragedies in last 20 years.

    That is more, much more then the rest of the world lost.

    That is just bullshit, Russian subs have escape capsules and all sorts of safety shit on board, he is not saying accidents happen so there is nothing we can do about it... he is saying no matter what precautions or measures we take to reduce the chance of problems accidents will still happen and people will still die... don't get all prissy and want to fire everyone when it does happen.

    There was backlash over many of his grand military mistakes, The Russians who got downed by Isreal, All these Sub incidents.

    You mean like the backlash in the US over two Space Shuttles killing their entire crews... the first because it was launched on political pressure in conditions that expressly stated it was not supposed to be launched under, and the second because analysis of the launch video spotted a problem with things falling off but someone in their wisdom decided they could leave it until they landed where it could be fixed?

    Don't remember any backlash at all... except the Space shuttles being rapidly retired from service and Russia earning good money flying Astronauts to space...

    Perhaps if Putin had been president it would be different.

    I understand that families want to know what happened but people in general are just wishing for more stories to talk about especially journalists.

    People are idiots... they demand all the answers right away... but any immediate answers without an actual investigation is just speculation and can often be wrong... which is of course worse than no answers at all.

    Russias political enemies however love to stir the pot and keep demanding answers and put in some "facts" of their own just to dirty the waters.

    If this was a mistake that could have been avoided then no it's not "Fine".

    All mistakes can be avoided, but suggesting they should and that no mistakes are acceptable... well I hope you don't have any children.

    It this was due to someone's incompetence then I guess your fine with bodies pilling up.

    People don't make mistakes where you come from?

    Oh sure we have had our share of Submarine accidents still in the last 20 years we have lost Six guys in sub accidents, Russia with one of its mistakes doubles our numbers. Russia has lost what over 100 at this point.

    You accidentally on purpose invaded Iraq and fucked up a whole country and killed hundreds of thousands of people for WMDs that didn't exist... you dick.

    So why we are MUCH better when it comes to the loss of life with submarines.

    So the 20 odd people you murdered when a US submarine surfaced and sank a Japanese fishing vessel don't count?

    It would be nice if Russia could get her head out of it's ass for once and get this sorted out: submarines, ships, spacecraft, airplanes, industry, it's always the same thing over and over again and they aren't doing anything to fix it

    Now you are being a dick, you make it sound like they don't even issue life jackets....

    It's not fate or destiny at work, it's callousness, incompetence and irresponsibility

    Yeah, that is the Russian way... Russia is like stalin and America is like Hitler... the Russians kill their own and America kills everyone else.

    Kursk happened because of poorly designed torpedo which wasn't properly inspected upon delivery

    For all we know it might have been a western computer chip that was sabotage...
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:44 am

    @Iso your sheer level of ignorance amazes me.

    Did I ever say it was on purpose or an accident? No. Read what I wrote and comment again.

    Some accidents can be avoided with proper care and maintenance sure not everything can be avoided by the fact the Ruskies have a body count of 100 plus sailors from sub accidents alone in the past 20 years while we have had six. Now if you want me to go further back then 20 years ooooo that number skyrockets.

    Shows what proper care can do and what it can avoid.

    We operate much more subs then Russia and yet we aren't even at 7 percent of their count.

    Facts are Facts buddy
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    Post  hoom on Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:37 am

    Couple of pics of Podmoskovy with Losharik dated 3 July
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 03-7650801-tass-34269791
    Russian Navy: Status and News #5 04-7650901-5089352

    Edit: bigger versions without watermark
    Can't say I see Losharik there unshaven
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    Post  Hole on Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:42 am

    Not long ago a murican sub hit some "underwater mountain". The mountain was sanctioned and the captain promoted. Very Happy

    If some accident like that happens in Amiland you will never know it. There will be a media blackout and the relatives of the deceased will be forced to sign special agreements to keep their mouth shut or loose all benefits. Same happened with the relatives of all the mercenaries killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:46 am

    Wouldn't believe an American if he said the sky was blue.
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    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:38 am



    There are wild stories going about the submarine incident.
    DEBKA file , which is a mix between Conspirancy theories site and sometimes
    report some facts here or there.. Is claiming that there was a Submarine battle
    between Russia and US navy in Alaska coast.. And one American sub intercept
    the Russian sub ,causing the casualties and losses ,but another Russian sub escorting
    it , hit back and sunk the American Submarine.. The Spy submarine of Russia that was
    hit managed to return to the base but not without some major damages and casualties..
    those 14 sailors killed apparently ,died after being intercepted by an AMerican sub..

    So Russia got 14 killed of fires. possibly later more and US lost one entire submarine
    and its crew.. yes is looks like taken from a movie.. But this is what DEBKA news
    is claiming..

    REPORT: AMERICAN SUBMARINE TORPEDOED AND SUNK OFF ALASKA COAST

    https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/report-american-submarine-torpedoed-and-sunk-off-alaska-coast

    In a different world ,such reports i will have called fake news.. but Knowing how bad are relations between US and Russia.. I can't completely 100% say things like that don't happen. US and Russia have traded blows in Syria... small fights there between them did happened. and one of many examples ,that exist.. is the time that Russia took the decision
    to liberate Easter Ghouta ,and NATO was in total panic , and in total hostilities mode vs Russia.. that did another Cruise missile attack the same week ,and UK began a major blunder operation ,to attempt to totally isolate Russia from Europe , since accused Putin of a chemical attack in their nation.. Rolling Eyes But during Russia bombing of eastern Ghouta.. to liberate it.. Chinese military media , in chinese language ,was claiming 1500 American and British elite forces were killed by Russia in Damascus.. I did reported about that..
    And surprise surprise.. a week later.. Sputnik about a Lebanese media report about British Military being captured by Syrian army in Damascus in the liberation of eastern Ghouta..

    So probably the submarine fight did not happened.. but it will not be completely impossible if indeed US and Russia traded blows with their navy and this incident ,Russian casualties are the only reported consequences.. and Americans just keep silence about a lot.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:29 am

    Take off your Tin Foil hat.

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    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:01 am

    I think much more likely than a sub battle would be that they were messing with a SOSUS cable/device & got an electrical feedback burst/short-circuit from it or even it had an explosive anti-tamper that caused shock damage to the sub.

    But sadly very plausible to be a wiring short-circuit as announced.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:34 pm

    Torpedoes and US subs don't operate at the depths this Russian sub operates at...
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    Post  Hole on Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:41 pm

    Few years ago there was a documentary on german TV about the new german sub class. The sub hadn´t left the Harbor as the first short-cirucit in one of the switchboards happened and a small fire broke out.

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