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    How can a country effectively fight an adversary that is in orders of magnitude more powerful than it?

    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb on Wed May 22, 2019 8:37 pm

    How can a country effectively fight an adversary that is far more powerful, both militarily and economically ?


    Whether it was the US invasion of Serbia, Iraq or now the possibility of a US invasion of Iran how can countries fight and possibly win a conflict against a powerful adversary like US or China, countries that are economically and militarily much more powerful than the countries that they choose to invade?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed May 22, 2019 10:11 pm

    They need to be in favor of a multipolar world. If they are US or Chinese dogs, no one will take them seriously.

    Before islamic revolution, Iran was to US what saudi arabia is to US today. Then US destroyed them economicaly.

    Yougoslavia was neutral and the wars happened because people couldn't live togather anymore mostly because communism ended and was replaced by the rules of the jungle, mostly known as capitalism.

    A country with united people will never be defeated.

    If the war happens, if you were truely for a multipolar world you will always have allies, firstly Russia and its nuks. Then no invasion can happen like in Syria. Economically you won't be alone since you can deal with many other countries but you need to make sure that eco sanctions won't affect you that much, just like Russia.

    Militarly speaking, you need enough weapons to make the invasion very costly. Iran has them and that's why tUS won't try anything.

    If your strategy is to be defencive and let them bomb you then you are done. You need to be able to hit them very hard. So an agressive strategy like hundreds of medium range BM, special forces that can destroy valuable targets in the homeland, and be sure to be able to kill at least 30 -50 % of the invasion forces. Military targets are not the most valuable ones.

    If you are loosing the war very badly, destroy enemy's nuclear power plants, transport system, electrical system, biggest companies ...
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    Post  GarryB on Thu May 23, 2019 5:39 am

    Well, you need to work out why the great power is interested in you and change that.

    You can also go to their strategic enemies and try to get support there simply by offering to provide to them what the belligerent power wants so effectively making them fight it out for the same thing.

    Otherwise having all your population educated as to what the real situation is... ie America does not give a shit about you... they want the oil, or they just want to piss off Russia or China, and then make sure your adult population is able to fight effectively.

    Going on to a war footing can be expensive and destructive but it can also be very useful in getting rid of 5th column actors.

    Obviously it is going to be very hard as effectively you will be taking on a superpower, and not everyone wants to bleed so the poor of your country can have a better life in a more socially responsible country than what the US is offering... which will be every man for themselves and no taxes for the rich...
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    Post  jhelb on Thu May 23, 2019 10:49 am

    Isos wrote: A country with united people will never be defeated.

    Serbs were very united, Iraqis were & yet they were defeated. Serbs are tough fighters too. But if you get overwhelmed by your adversary what can you do.

    Isos wrote: If the war happens, if you were truely for a multipolar world you will always have allies

    Unlikely. If you happen to be an Asian or African country & you are facing the prospect of a major invasion from a major western power like US, UK every single of your ally will desert you.



    GarryB wrote:Well, you need to work out why the great power is interested in you and change that.

    As can be seen from the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan great powers like the US are interested in you simply because they want to occupy your country & lay claim to your resources. How do you change that ?


    GarryB wrote:Obviously it is going to be very hard as effectively you will be taking on a superpower, and not everyone wants to bleed so the poor of your country can have a better life in a more socially responsible country than what the US is offering... which will be every man for themselves and no taxes for the rich...

    x2. The US realizes this very well. Which explains why poor countries can't defend themselves against super powers like US
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu May 23, 2019 2:17 pm

    In military terms the best response is an assymetric one.

    Make the enemy expend as much resources as possible and suffer as many casualties as possible, so:
    - effective camouflage sets for ground units that reduce detectability from the air (modern Russian ones can reduce detectability from the air by ober 90% if I am not mistaken)
    - decoy units to make enemy AF expend munitions
    - decoy radar sites to fool anti radiation missiles
    - good EW warfare equipment for ground units
    - large number of ATGM teams behind enemy lines to disrupt supply lines during the invasion
    - efficient anti-drone systems
    - stockpile a large number of weaponry and train a large number of reserve soldiers so that after the invasion a resistance movement can be created rapidly. Iran has effectively done that, it could have 100s of thousands of men up in arms.

    In 2006 Hezbollah outplayed Israeli AF and then fought Israeli army to a stalemate in southern Lebanon (best army in the world by some estimates)
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu May 23, 2019 8:42 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:

    In 2006 Hezbollah outplayed Israeli AF and then fought Israeli army to a stalemate in southern Lebanon (best army in the world by some estimates)

    A stalemate? The Israeli's lost a full division of Merkeva tanks (said to be up to 53 MBT's) against an enemy (Hezbollah) with a shoe-string budget in comparison, and they retreated. For it to be a stalemate they (the IDF) would still be occupying the territory (like they used to), but have agreed to cease hostilities. The IDF is definitely NOT the best ground forces in the world, I would say the Federation beats them by a wide margin. The IDF has never fought an enemy with comparable military hardware or training (in recent memory), in contrast to the VDV who fought Georgia, which was also trained in Soviet military doctrine and had much of the same equipment, vehicles and systems, compare that with the IDF which is still struggling with Hamas (again shoe-string budget), a Frankenstein they admitted to creating.
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    Post  Aristide on Thu May 23, 2019 9:54 pm

    In short: it cant. It never can.

    The moment the bigger country decides to go full war, the small country has lost and geta erased.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 24, 2019 9:28 am

    The moment the bigger country decides to go full war, the small country has lost and geta erased.

    Clearly bullshit.

    Very simply there is a value the US or whoever will put on what you have that interests them... whether it is oil or lithium or whatever.

    You will never beat them with military alone, so you need to have a guerilla war where people operate within a largely friendly civilian populace... like the VC in Vietnam.

    We are told Vietnam was all about stopping communism sweeping through asia, so pretty much cutting ties with China and the Soviet Union would be a good start... ironically it would militarily severely weaken them but morally it would kick the ground out from under the enemy.

    IEDs and snipers constantly killing Americans day in and day out.... no front line... eventually they are going to look at the mounting number of dead, realise that whether they stay or go then the Soviets or Chinese wont gain anything... why are we staying here?

    When the issue is oil then it becomes harder, but clearer... murder the civilian oil workers... every chance you get... with no oil workers then no oil extraction or transport... hit trucks and pipes and ships and oil wells... do it from close range and long range, day and night...

    When top officials and US senators come visit... do everything you can to murder them... no McCain smiling at destroying democracy in the Ukraine and Nuland handing out cookies... target the head of the beast...

    Don't expect to win... but remember, they are on your turf... you have no where else to go... so they will get tired before you do.
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    Post  Aristide on Fri May 24, 2019 9:42 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The moment the bigger country decides to go full war, the small country has lost and geta erased.

    Clearly bullshit.

    Very simply there is a value the US or whoever will put on what you have that interests them... whether it is oil or lithium or whatever.

    You will never beat them with military alone, so you need to have a guerilla war where people operate within a largely friendly civilian populace... like the VC in Vietnam.

    We are told Vietnam was all about stopping communism sweeping through asia, so pretty much cutting ties with China and the Soviet Union would be a good start... ironically it would militarily severely weaken them but morally it would kick the ground out from under the enemy.

    IEDs and snipers constantly killing Americans day in and day out.... no front line... eventually they are going to look at the mounting number of dead, realise that whether they stay or go then the Soviets or Chinese wont gain anything... why are we staying here?

    When the issue is oil then it becomes harder, but clearer... murder the civilian oil workers... every chance you get... with no oil workers then no oil extraction or transport... hit trucks and pipes and ships and oil wells... do it from close range and long range, day and night...

    When top officials and US senators come visit... do everything you can to murder them... no McCain smiling at destroying democracy in the Ukraine and Nuland handing out cookies... target the head of the beast...

    Don't expect to win... but remember, they are on your turf... you have no where else to go... so they will get tired before you do.

    How is it bullshit?

    What can ISIS do when USA decides to go full genocidal? I tell you, nothing.

    The land has the value, not the people. Once you decide to go full on genocide you dont have to worry about insurgents or rebellion.

    Vietnam would have been won easily when evry village gets erased from the ground and biological amd chemical warfare is used in full scale.

    France did that in some cases and it is the lands on foreign ground that we still hold.

    And that was 17th and 18th century. Now in 2019 its an even easier thing.

    Humans are quite good in erasing evry single specimen bigger than a mouse in a certain region.

    Your assumption is based on the believe that the greater power holds up certain morale values.
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    Post  jhelb on Fri May 24, 2019 12:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:Don't expect to win... but remember, they are on your turf... you have no where else to go... so they will get tired before you do.

    That's true Garry, but MONEY TALKS. How do you fight a country that is more richer than you are ?

    Have you noticed that in all Western democracies the party that is more rich, generally wins.

    If US, UK, France, China has to invade a country they will spend billions of $$ to buy several locals, organizations in those countries. Then use these locals, organizations against their own country.
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    Post  Aristide on Fri May 24, 2019 12:25 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Don't expect to win... but remember, they are on your turf... you have no where else to go... so they will get tired before you do.

    That's true Garry, but MONEY TALKS. How do you fight a country that is more richer than you are ?

    Have you noticed that in all Western democracies the party that is more rich, generally wins.

    If US, UK, France, China has to invade a country they will spend billions of $$ to buy several locals, organizations in those countries. Then use these locals, organizations against their own country.

    Russia does exactly the same.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri May 24, 2019 1:11 pm

    How is it bullshit?

    What can ISIS do when USA decides to go full genocidal? I tell you, nothing.

    You are claiming the US is omnipotent and always gets it way... it can't even make Mexico build a wall for goodness sake, and while it can expertly bomb and attack and destroy most countries, the truth of the matter is that they simply can't do that to most countries... only the small weak ones.

    The US wanted to keep Vietnam out of the sphere of the Soviets and communist Chinese... and they failed... they wanted north korea to be controlled by south korea and they failed. They failed in Cuba and Venezuela and Somalia and an enormous number of times in Iraq... but now that they won they have lost there too because the majority are not anti Iranian like they are... in fact the US had more in common with Saddam in terms of local politics in the region than they have with the people that are in power now.... only a matter of time... and of course Syria and Libya are both shitholes and largely anti US shitholes now too... just like Afghanistan...

    Even pro America Pakistan is no longer a friend of the US...

    There are probably more small countries hostile to the US than there are pro right now.... and the recent voting on the islands the Brits stole off the coast of India shows... over 116 countries voted against the US and UK and 70 abstensions... this is almost 30 years after the end of the cold war... it is supposed to be all peace and love now isn't it? The fruits of peace should be booming economies for everyone... the peace dividend... but it never came... just more petty little wars...

    Humans are quite good in erasing evry single specimen bigger than a mouse in a certain region.

    Never happened... even testing nuclear weapons they evacuated populations, but they have never gone full nazi and tried to exterminate a group of people, though the Israelis are giving it a damn good go of course.

    That's true Garry, but MONEY TALKS. How do you fight a country that is more richer than you are ?

    Money does talk and so does prosecution for bribery and a ban on secrecy laws for the finances of all political figures so you know exactly where the money comes from. Make sure there are no donations to political figures... allocate each party guaranteed time on all media, with clear and open rules so the rich don't get more air time and the poor don't get no air time. It is not that hard. Ban financial contributions to politicians or their families... that is corruption and collusion.

    Have you noticed that in all Western democracies the party that is more rich, generally wins.

    Support from media moguls certainly seems to help... especially the air time you get and the negative air time your opponents get, though it did not work against Trump... but these people in their ivory towers don't understand most people... our politicians have people talking in their ears... ban semi automatic rifles and there will be no gun crime because people who like semi automatic guns are the killers that kill people so take away their guns and they will be frustrated but disarmed. Of course most of the people who like and own semi automatic guns are not criminals, while the people who go on rampages often don't actually like guns but see them as a means to do what they want, which is to get famous by getting a kill count... 10 minutes of fame.

    In western democracies where the laws allow enormous donations to be anonymous or not registered, and you can donate to anyone... which basically means you can buy anyone... is very undemocratic. These people are not curing cancer. Donations are not to help Schools or Orphanages or animal welfare groups feed stray animals... this is all corruption pure and simple and it is not only tolerated in the US it is encouraged.

    How many people living in a trailer park in the US because they can't afford a normal house could do with a $50,000 donation? I would say most of them.

    If US, UK, France, China has to invade a country they will spend billions of $$ to buy several locals, organizations in those countries. Then use these locals, organizations against their own country.

    So the key is to monitor this, confiscate the money and put the people in prison as foreign agents, and then evict the diplomats from the country of origin.

    I would also separate the Chinese from the others... the others will generally bribe a government official to win a tender they wouldn't otherwise win or change a law so they can treat local workers like shit with no chance of legal action no matter what they do.

    From what I have seen the Chinese invest in the local economy and upgrade local infrastructure, like building roads and schools and hospitals and doing things you thought the west was doing but they weren't really... they were just screwing the locals.

    The Chinese certainly wont over pay the locals but they seem to give them a much better deal than the west and very much most important, they don't tell the locals what laws they need to change... in other words they don't demand the locals act more like they do...

    The western countries will demand things from the locals but wont pay a living wage or promote workers rights or health and safety or anything that might benefit the locals and cost them more.

    An African minor might find a nugget of gold or diamond and the western company might give him $10 for it... in a market in London they will get hundreds of thousands of dollars for that nugget but the guy who found it gets a pittance...

    These days you hear in western circles about fair prices being paid for resources, but it is all talk most of the time... big companies go to these poor countries because they know they can get cheap labour and exploit the workers... that isn't going to change, but if China and Russia start sharing the wealth with those that are creating it it means it is much more likely they will get contracts over the western companies who steal...

    And the west will be forced to use Americas current tactics to get access to markets and deal with competition... it started with the Ukraine... the coup in the Ukraine was because the anti Russian Ukrainian leader was going to go with the Russian/Chinese deal and not the EU deal and that was simply because the EU deal was shit. It has continued from there and they are only hurting themselves.... so let them keep doing it... don't stop them, and don't point out their error because it is making them look bad and weakens their position to continue this way.
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    Post  Aristide on Fri May 24, 2019 1:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    How is it bullshit?

    What can ISIS do when USA decides to go full genocidal? I tell you, nothing.

    You are claiming the US is omnipotent and always gets it way... it can't even make Mexico build a wall for goodness sake, and while it can expertly bomb and attack and destroy most countries, the truth of the matter is that they simply can't do that to most countries... only the small weak ones.

    The US wanted to keep Vietnam out of the sphere of the Soviets and communist Chinese... and they failed... they wanted north korea to be controlled by south korea and they failed. They failed in Cuba and Venezuela and Somalia and an enormous number of times in Iraq... but now that they won they have lost there too because the majority are not anti Iranian like they are... in fact the US had more in common with Saddam in terms of local politics in the region than they have with the people that are in power now.... only a matter of time... and of course Syria and Libya are both shitholes and largely anti US shitholes now too... just like Afghanistan...

    Even pro America Pakistan is no longer a friend of the US...

    There are probably more small countries hostile to the US than there are pro right now.... and the recent voting on the islands the Brits stole off the coast of India shows... over 116 countries voted against the US and UK and 70 abstensions... this is almost 30 years after the end of the cold war... it is supposed to be all peace and love now isn't it? The fruits of peace should be booming economies for everyone... the peace dividend... but it never came... just more petty little wars...

    Humans are quite good in erasing evry single specimen bigger than a mouse in a certain region.

    Never happened... even testing nuclear weapons they evacuated populations, but they have never gone full nazi and tried to exterminate a group of people, though the Israelis are giving it a damn good go of course.

    That's true Garry, but MONEY TALKS. How do you fight a country that is more richer than you are ?

    Money does talk and so does prosecution for bribery and a ban on secrecy laws for the finances of all political figures so you know exactly where the money comes from. Make sure there are no donations to political figures... allocate each party guaranteed time on all media, with clear and open rules so the rich don't get more air time and the poor don't get no air time. It is not that hard. Ban financial contributions to politicians or their families... that is corruption and collusion.

    Have you noticed that in all Western democracies the party that is more rich, generally wins.

    Support from media moguls certainly seems to help... especially the air time you get and the negative air time your opponents get, though it did not work against Trump... but these people in their ivory towers don't understand most people... our politicians have people talking in their ears... ban semi automatic rifles and there will be no gun crime because people who like semi automatic guns are the killers that kill people so take away their guns and they will be frustrated but disarmed. Of course most of the people who like and own semi automatic guns are not criminals, while the people who go on rampages often don't actually like guns but see them as a means to do what they want, which is to get famous by getting a kill count... 10 minutes of fame.

    In western democracies where the laws allow enormous donations to be anonymous or not registered, and you can donate to anyone... which basically means you can buy anyone... is very undemocratic. These people are not curing cancer. Donations are not to help Schools or Orphanages or animal welfare groups feed stray animals... this is all corruption pure and simple and it is not only tolerated in the US it is encouraged.

    How many people living in a trailer park in the US because they can't afford a normal house could do with a $50,000 donation? I would say most of them.

    If US, UK, France, China has to invade a country they will spend billions of $$ to buy several locals, organizations in those countries. Then use these locals, organizations against their own country.

    So the key is to monitor this, confiscate the money and put the people in prison as foreign agents, and then evict the diplomats from the country of origin.

    I would also separate the Chinese from the others... the others will generally bribe a government official to win a tender they wouldn't otherwise win or change a law so they can treat local workers like shit with no chance of legal action no matter what they do.

    From what I have seen the Chinese invest in the local economy and upgrade local infrastructure, like building roads and schools and hospitals and doing things you thought the west was doing but they weren't really... they were just screwing the locals.

    The Chinese certainly wont over pay the locals but they seem to give them a much better deal than the west and very much most important, they don't tell the locals what laws they need to change... in other words they don't demand the locals act more like they do...

    The western countries will demand things from the locals but wont pay a living wage or promote workers rights or health and safety or anything that might benefit the locals and cost them more.

    An African minor might find a nugget of gold or diamond and the western company might give him $10 for it... in a market in London they will get hundreds of thousands of dollars for that nugget but the guy who found it gets a pittance...

    These days you hear in western circles about fair prices being paid for resources, but it is all talk most of the time... big companies go to these poor countries because they know they can get cheap labour and exploit the workers... that isn't going to change, but if China and Russia start sharing the wealth with those that are creating it it means it is much more likely they will get contracts over the western companies who steal...

    And the west will be forced to use Americas current tactics to get access to markets and deal with competition... it started with the Ukraine... the coup in the Ukraine was because the anti Russian Ukrainian leader was going to go with the Russian/Chinese deal and not the EU deal and that was simply because the EU deal was shit. It has continued from there and they are only hurting themselves.... so let them keep doing it... don't stop them, and don't point out their error because it is making them look bad and weakens their position to continue this way.

    Oh it has been done.

    France killed evry single human on the Marquesa islands and replaced them with loyalists. France also killed evry single human being on Bora Bora and replaced the population, once the island was depopulated.

    The UK killed evry single tasmanian. The tasmanian people went extinct. The last one died in early 20th century.

    They did resist but what resistance is left when the only one of your people alive, is an old women named Fanny Cochrane Smith who recorded her peoples songs, which is only record left from their language?

    France is not omnipotent but we belong to the countries that can project power. I assure you we would be capable to depopulate countries like Afghanistan.

    It just gives bad publicity.

    If i see my character and imagine myself as a commander, i would not want to do it, because i want appear good and shining. But if my plans dont work like i want them to do, why shouldnt i use what i have to gain victory?

    Vietnam is a good example for that. It could have been easily won if more robust strategies had been used.
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    Post  flamming_python on Fri May 24, 2019 11:45 pm

    Aristide wrote:
    Oh it has been done.

    France killed evry single human on the Marquesa islands and replaced them with loyalists. France also killed evry single human being on Bora Bora and replaced the population, once the island was depopulated.

    The UK killed evry single tasmanian. The tasmanian people went extinct. The last one died in early 20th century.

    They did resist but what resistance is left when the only one of your people alive, is an old women named Fanny Cochrane Smith who recorded her peoples songs, which is only record left from their language?

    France is not omnipotent but we belong to the countries that can project power. I assure you we would be capable to depopulate countries like Afghanistan.

    It just gives bad publicity.

    If i see my character and imagine myself as a commander, i would not want to do it, because i want appear good and shining. But if my plans dont work like i want them to do, why shouldnt i use what i have to gain victory?

    Vietnam is a good example for that. It could have been easily won if more robust strategies had been used.

    If a country uses strategies like that, the rest of the world will unite against them.

    After all, everyone will be wondering about "who's next?"
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 25, 2019 12:41 am

    Aristide wrote:In short: it cant. It never can.

    The moment the bigger country decides to go full war, the small country has lost and geta erased.

    Ask the manager of your immigrant shelter how his country did in Indochina lol1



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    Post  Aristide on Sat May 25, 2019 12:53 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    Oh it has been done.

    France killed evry single human on the Marquesa islands and replaced them with loyalists. France also killed evry single human being on Bora Bora and replaced the population, once the island was depopulated.

    The UK killed evry single tasmanian. The tasmanian people went extinct. The last one died in early 20th century.

    They did resist but what resistance is left when the only one of your people alive, is an old women named Fanny Cochrane Smith who recorded her peoples songs, which is only record left from their language?

    France is not omnipotent but we belong to the countries that can project power. I assure you we would be capable to depopulate countries like Afghanistan.

    It just gives bad publicity.

    If i see my character and imagine myself as a commander, i would not want to do it, because i want appear good and shining. But if my plans dont work like i want them to do, why shouldnt i use what i have to gain victory?

    Vietnam is a good example for that. It could have been easily won if more robust strategies had been used.

    If a country uses strategies like that, the rest of the world will unite against them.

    After all, everyone will be wondering about "who's next?"

    The world never unites.

    When did the world unite when we did it on some islands?

    The world gives a shit.

    Look at Yemen. The most brutal war we have on this planet right now. And it gets less coverage than Madonnas bad performance at the ESC.

    Some areas under french control like Niger or Mali, we can do evrything there. Blow up a city with thermobaric bombs? Who would report about it?

    Oh and as for the Serb, ignored as usual.

    P.s.: I thought if i ever met a person from Serbia in life and yes i did. A girl working as cabin steward on the Costa Diadema. She brought me fresh made orange juice when ordered.

    You had to make your order on the Multimedia Center in teh cabin and few minutes later she came with cooled down oranges and put them into a machine and served the stuff.

    She came evry day and i gave her a tip.

    Good people.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat May 25, 2019 3:09 am

    Aristide wrote:...Oh and as for the Serb, ignored as usual.

    Immediately followed by:


    Aristide wrote:..I thought if i ever met a person from Serbia in life and yes i did. A girl working as cabin steward on the Costa Diadema. She brought me fresh made orange juice when ordered.

    You had to make your order on the Multimedia Center in teh cabin and few minutes later she came with cooled down oranges and put them into a machine and served the stuff.

    She came evry day and i gave her a tip.

    Good people.

    Well go on, finish the story. What happened after your refugee coordinator woke you up? Razz





    But I do give confused Arab here one thing: he is right about problem solving method.

    Nobody will be around to complain if you kill everybody so it's definitely viable and sustainable approach.


    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 25, 2019 4:36 am

    The UK killed evry single tasmanian. The tasmanian people went extinct. The last one died in early 20th century.

    Not sure what you are talking about... the aborigines killed a huge number of white people in their time... they were actually rather good at it... european diseases probably killed more natives than european bullets... if you read western tales of the wild west all their guns are long range super accurate and they killed the native americans like flies, but as usual the number claimed and the number estimated to be there in the first place suggest they wiped them out several times over... or they are liars.

    France is not omnipotent but we belong to the countries that can project power. I assure you we would be capable to depopulate countries like Afghanistan.

    Hahahaha... Britain has failed in Afghanistan about 6 times now and even the US failed, the Soviets failed once there too... please tally up all these super powers who could walk all over Afghanistan like you are suggesting... those mountains have treasure because it has never been properly mined for minerals and chemicals so there are probably billions of dollars sitting there just waiting to be taken out of there... yet no one is keen to try...

    Vietnam is a good example for that. It could have been easily won if more robust strategies had been used.

    You are right here.... exactly right... Vietnam was a victim of colonialism first by France and then Japan and then France again and then when they were sent packing the Americans had a go.... and now the Vietnamese are in charge... if you were right there would be no Vietnamese... just French people... or Japanese people or American people... but they are all dead and it is just the Vietnamese people left because they fought and died to make it so.

    The Vietnamese couldn't organise an invasion of the Falklands Islands like the UK or France or US could, but at a horrendous cost to themselves and their country they said no to France and Japan and the US and China... it took half a century... but they did it.
    Aristide
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    Post  Aristide on Sat May 25, 2019 8:56 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The UK killed evry single tasmanian. The tasmanian people went extinct. The last one died in early 20th century.

    Not sure what you are talking about... the aborigines killed a huge number of white people in their time... they were actually rather good at it... european diseases probably killed more natives than european bullets... if you read western tales of the wild west all their guns are long range super accurate and they killed the native americans like flies, but as usual the number claimed and the number estimated to be there in the first place suggest they wiped them out several times over... or they are liars.

    France is not omnipotent but we belong to the countries that can project power. I assure you we would be capable to depopulate countries like Afghanistan.

    Hahahaha... Britain has failed in Afghanistan about 6 times now and even the US failed, the Soviets failed once there too... please tally up all these super powers who could walk all over Afghanistan like you are suggesting... those mountains have treasure because it has never been properly mined for minerals and chemicals so there are probably billions of dollars sitting there just waiting to be taken out of there... yet no one is keen to try...

    Vietnam is a good example for that. It could have been easily won if more robust strategies had been used.

    You are right here.... exactly right... Vietnam was a victim of colonialism first by France and then Japan and then France again and then when they were sent packing the Americans had a go.... and now the Vietnamese are in charge... if you were right there would be no Vietnamese... just French people... or Japanese people or American people... but they are all dead and it is just the Vietnamese people left because they fought and died to make it so.

    The Vietnamese couldn't organise an invasion of the Falklands Islands like the UK or France or US could, but at a horrendous cost to themselves and their country they said no to France and Japan and the US and China... it took half a century... but they did it.

    Im talking about the tasmanian genocide. There was abounty on each tasmanian head. They were hunted until none was left.

    From the rest of your post i see you did not understand. A lack of understanding and it makes you a good person Gary. .

    Afghanistan and Vietnam was not under a genocidal war. We and also the Soviets wanted rule them.

    Once you are over that and decide its better to kill all and resettle the land, any insurrgency dies down, simply by lack of people.

    Its quite easy, if you drop a thermobaric bomb on each city amd kill evry single person with that, the only insurgents you have left are vultures fighting for the scraps.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 25, 2019 10:34 am

    Yeah, well of course you are entitled to think that but the honest truth is that if Hitler had made his armed forces treat the Soviets with respect Stalin and the west would have been in the shit... the German army with production facilities to make T-34s and KV-1s and Yak-1s and La-5FNs and of course small arms and all the other things they made themselves plus 10-20 million new soldiers then the UK and US wouldn't have had a chance... the Germans wouldn't have even needed to attack north africa or the middle east, Russia could have supplied oil and resources and without the german attacks could have easily produced rather more than it actually needed... a land bridge to Japan would open Siberian resources to Japan so they would not have needed to go south to get oil and rubber and other materials they needed... but taking french and british colonies from their European colonial masters... the Japs could have been the heroes saving Asia from the brutal europeans... instead of costly fighting all through asia they could have offered native Hawaiians their own country...

    But instead Hitler had similar eurocentric delusions of grandeur and racial superiority and chose to try to exterminate the Soviets... giving them no choice but to fight and grind the Germans into the dust where they belonged.

    But then even the smartest people can be stupid and/or do stupid things...

    Look back at your own early posts and you will see you were a staunch anti Russian that was dead against Russia and 100% for May and the UK and the US as key allies of France...

    Do you still believe Putin killed the Skripals?

    Wonder what the story is now... funny how there are CCTV cameras all over the UK yet no CCTV footage of the Skripals has been shown and they currently seem to be very very quiet...
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    Post  Aristide on Sat May 25, 2019 10:59 am

    GarryB wrote:Yeah, well of course you are entitled to think that but the honest truth is that if Hitler had made his armed forces treat the Soviets with respect Stalin and the west would have been in the shit... the German army with production facilities to make T-34s and KV-1s and Yak-1s and La-5FNs and of course small arms and all the other things they made themselves plus 10-20 million new soldiers then the UK and US wouldn't have had a chance... the Germans wouldn't have even needed to attack north africa or the middle east, Russia could have supplied oil and resources and without the german attacks could have easily produced rather more than it actually needed... a land bridge to Japan would open Siberian resources to Japan so they would not have needed to go south to get oil and rubber and other materials they needed... but taking french and british colonies from their European colonial masters... the Japs could have been the heroes saving Asia from the brutal europeans... instead of costly fighting all through asia they could have offered native Hawaiians their own country...

    But instead Hitler had similar eurocentric delusions of grandeur and racial superiority and chose to try to exterminate the Soviets... giving them no choice but to fight and grind the Germans into the dust where they belonged.

    But then even the smartest people can be stupid and/or do stupid things...

    Look back at your own early posts and you will see you were a staunch anti Russian that was dead against Russia and 100% for May and the UK and the US as key allies of France...

    Do you still believe Putin killed the Skripals?

    Wonder what the story is now... funny how there are CCTV cameras all over the UK yet no CCTV footage of the Skripals has been shown and they currently seem to be very very quiet...

    I dont care about Skripal. Maybe France did it. After all traces could be found in France.

    I also was ever anti russian. You mistake french patriotism to be anti anything.

    Im with Russia if its good for us and i backstab Russia if its good for us.

    Hitler did not genocidal war. Not doing so was his downfall. You cant go "half genocidal".

    A example for genocidal war in huge scale can be the spanish - inka war. Even so it was unintended, the native Inka people lost to spain simply because tehy faced a merciless enemy, the flu-virus. It killed such enormous
    amounts of people that they were at some point unable to counter attack.

    When there is no one left, there is nobody to question the rule.

    Its believed not even 10% survived.

    You should visit Peru. The size of the Inka empire was enormous. Its level of organisation unrivaled.

    When our ancestors arrived, they first saw us as gods and they were. Gods of death.

    The virus spread faster than our troops. Wherever they arrived, tehy only saw death and misery and collapse.

    As i said Gary you are a good person. You lack imagination of afull genocidal war.
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    Post  jhelb on Sat May 25, 2019 9:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    So the key is to monitor this, confiscate the money and put the people in prison as foreign agents, and then evict the diplomats from the country of origin.

    Not possible to track the money, Garry, as you rightly mentioned the laws allow enormous donations to be anonymous or not registered. These laws are true not just for Western democracies but for eastern countries as well.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun May 26, 2019 4:49 am

    Hahahaha... you say not possible to track the money... poor opposition person suddenly starts sending his kids to the best and most expensive western schools... it is a bit of a hint you know...

    Also someone spending money they clearly don't have... also a pretty clear indicator...

    The simple fact is that there are a million different type of people but that does not matter... there will be those that support foreign occupation and destruction of their country because they have no attachment to their country or they just don't care and think their interests are more important than anyone elses... see above your post for examples of that... and there are people with opinions that whine on talkback radio and twitter but never actually do anything.

    The people who are the problem are the people who are already rich and influential or who are getting money from foreign rich and influential people that are using it to influence others... the people who go out of their way to control the local media, the people who hold demonstrations to try to influence the people one way or another... of course they are smart too... you can start a demonstration about something unimportant that they care nothing about just so they can put a few agitators in there with molotov cocktails and then disappear while the police and army deal to the now violent protestors... it worked for the KLA in Kosovo... their method was to attack the police or army near a village that did not support their violent approach so that when the police and army responded against the local village they turned them against them and for the KLA.

    Trick the enemy into committing war crimes and film it... the terrorists in Syria have done it several times pretending chemical attacks, and while eventually proven to be a hoax the damage was done... the west took a free hand and attacked, and changes were made to weaponise the international organisation responsible for chem and bio weapons...

    Maduro has survived because he basically has the support of the poor and the moderately well off... it is the richer people who want America in so they can make even more money from the system... which is the one great failing of the American system for the 1%... they can't directly select the president via the ballot.

    They did change the candidates by eliminating Sanders via the DNC election process... note there was no scandal that that was fixed at all... totally undemocratic.. but acceptable because it was the rich people who did it... ie democracy and rules can go fuck themselves when it is in our interests. Ironically Bernie had a much better chance of beating Trump than Clinton ever did or ever will.

    It is the 1% that are looking for russian collusion because they don't have enough votes come election time to vote trump out... which is why most of the media believes and promotes the russian collusion shit because the media are owned by the 1%.

    Garry, as you rightly mentioned the laws allow enormous donations to be anonymous or not registered. These laws are true not just for Western democracies but for eastern countries as well.

    Bullshit. These laws are AMERICAN LAWS just like that bullshit in Russian law that says a president can only serve two consecutive terms... I live in a democracy called New Zealand and we have no such laws... as long as the people vote for you then you can remain in power as long as you like.
    We also have laws against anonymous donations and we also have restrictions that require air time to all political parties... a government MAKES the rules, but the people elect the government.

    Russian politicians allowed for anonymous donations because they clearly thought it was good for them... the Russian people or the people of the small country the US or the west is trying to crush need to tell them it is not good for them.

    What they clearly need to do is set up a TV channel for politics that is government funded but not government controlled where politicians can debate and discuss issues where members of the public can phone in to discuss problems or issues... you could have panels of experts and people from all politicial parties allocated time to talk and get their views across so anyone interested can look to see what sort of people they are.

    There would need to be controls, it would need to be monitored, but it would be much better than what the US has now where the Republicans and Democrats are heard but no one else can afford air time so most people never hear about them till they see their names on the voting paper.
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    Post  Aristide on Sun May 26, 2019 6:30 am

    GarryB wrote:Hahahaha... you say not possible to track the money... poor opposition person suddenly starts sending his kids to the best and most expensive western schools... it is a bit of a hint you know...

    Also someone spending money they clearly don't have... also a pretty clear indicator...

    The simple fact is that there are a million different type of people but that does not matter... there will be those that support foreign occupation and destruction of their country because they have no attachment to their country or they just don't care and think their interests are more important than anyone elses... see above your post for examples of that... and there are people with opinions that whine on talkback radio and twitter but never actually do anything.

    The people who are the problem are the people who are already rich and influential or who are getting money from foreign rich and influential people that are using it to influence others... the people who go out of their way to control the local media, the people who hold demonstrations to try to influence the people one way or another... of course they are smart too... you can start a demonstration about something unimportant that they care nothing about just so they can put a few agitators in there with molotov cocktails and then disappear while the police and army deal to the now violent protestors... it worked for the KLA in Kosovo... their method was to attack the police or army near a village that did not support their violent approach so that when the police and army responded against the local village they turned them against them and for the KLA.

    Trick the enemy into committing war crimes and film it... the terrorists in Syria have done it several times pretending chemical attacks, and while eventually proven to be a hoax the damage was done... the west took a free hand and attacked, and changes were made to weaponise the international organisation responsible for chem and bio weapons...

    Maduro has survived because he basically has the support of the poor and the moderately well off... it is the richer people who want America in so they can make even more money from the system... which is the one great failing of the American system for the 1%... they can't directly select the president via the ballot.

    They did change the candidates by eliminating Sanders via the DNC election process... note there was no scandal that that was fixed at all... totally undemocratic.. but acceptable because it was the rich people who did it... ie democracy and rules can go fuck themselves when it is in our interests. Ironically Bernie had a much better chance of beating Trump than Clinton ever did or ever will.

    It is the 1% that are looking for russian collusion because they don't have enough votes come election time to vote trump out... which is why most of the media believes and promotes the russian collusion shit because the media are owned by the 1%.

    Garry, as you rightly mentioned the laws allow enormous donations to be anonymous or not registered. These laws are true not just for Western democracies but for eastern countries as well.

    Bullshit. These laws are AMERICAN LAWS just like that bullshit in Russian law that says a president can only serve two consecutive terms... I live in a democracy called New Zealand and we have no such laws... as long as the people vote for you then you can remain in power as long as you like.
    We also have laws against anonymous donations and we also have restrictions that require air time to all political parties... a government MAKES the rules, but the people elect the government.

    Russian politicians allowed for anonymous donations because they clearly thought it was good for them... the Russian people or the people of the small country the US or the west is trying to crush need to tell them it is not good for them.

    What they clearly need to do is set up a TV channel for politics that is government funded but not government controlled where politicians can debate and discuss issues where members of the public can phone in to discuss problems or issues... you could have panels of experts and people from all politicial parties allocated time to talk and get their views across so anyone interested can look to see what sort of people they are.

    There would need to be controls, it would need to be monitored, but it would be much better than what the US has now where the Republicans and Democrats are heard but no one else can afford air time so most people never hear about them till they see their names on the voting paper.

    A term limit is not an american law but an old roman law and it is the most important law.

    Look in Germany what happens when you have no term limit. Mad Merkel slips into mad queen mode more and more. Ruined the country and does propably irreversible damage.

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