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    IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News #1

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    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:30 am

    Actually, I think you're underestimating their importance solely based on the lack of a formal alliance....when the time and conditions are right it will be formalised under some legal structure....probably under the SCO umbrella
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:45 am

    I have been reading on a non political firearms blog site and most of the American posters simply don't understand the cooperation between Iran and Iraq...

    You'd think when the US invaded Iraq it would have made clear to its own population what it was doing and what the likely results would be.

    It was a Sunni/Saddam war between Iraq and Iran in the 1980s. With Saddams Bathist party oppressing the majority Shia who would be sympathetic to Shia Iran even though we are talking about Shia Persians and Shia Arabs in Iran and Iraq respectively.

    Now when the US removed the Sunni Saddam regime and gave Iraq the vote of course the oppressed Shia majority would get into power... majority of people = majority of votes.

    Expecting the Shia to allow Sunni into office is like asking post war West Germany to vote in a few Nazis to keep them happy!!!

    If course my analogy doesn't work because plenty of Nazis found work in the West German government...

    I'd say bomb the invaders coming from Syria and assist Syria in their fight against more of the same within Syrian borders... both countries have a vested interest in exterminating these vermin.
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:58 am

    GarryB can you possibly explain to me why the hell americans decided to destroy then dethrone Saddam and then absolutely abolish any remnant of the Bath party in Iraq and why on Earth Saudis where strongly supporting this lunacy?
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    Post  Asf on Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:29 pm

    I don't want to be paranoid, but dosen't anybody think what is happening in Iraq is a part of US strategy to weaken Iran? Lots of barbaric ismalists infiltrating Syria and Iran will be rough
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    Post  Asf on Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:32 pm

     why on Earth Saudis where strongly supporting this lunacy?

    Because they want wahhabists and want non-fundamental islamist regimes to fall may be? But why the USA want it? Don't they think all this "controlled chaos" will one day go out of control and not only Eurasia will suffer?
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    Post  Asf on Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:41 pm

    Yes, the Shia axis is too powerful and millions of Iraqi's have volunteered to fight ISIS, let's not forget that the secular Arab govt's such as Syria, Algeria, and Egypt have an ax-to-grind with the Wahhabi and Salafi terror brigades. Russia, China, the Shia dominant countries of Iraq and Iran, and the Secular Arab govt's of Syria, Egypt, and Algeria are too powerful of a combination for the degenerate Gulf Monarchies to handle!

    Shia seems loosing a battle after battle. Syria is bleeding, Egypt has it's own problems and isn't involved. Russia has no strings of ISIS to pull, not to mention China. Situation is quite bad for secular islamic countries... soon we can see the rise of islamic fundamental terrorists even in Europe, not to mention Caucasus and ex-Soviet Middle East countries
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:14 pm

    GarryB can you possibly explain to me why the hell americans decided to destroy then dethrone Saddam and then absolutely abolish any remnant of the Bath party in Iraq and why on Earth Saudis where strongly supporting this lunacy?

    Saddam committed the cardinal sin... he invaded Kuwaite.

    For all the US knew he might have invaded Saudi Arabia too as both Iraq and Kuwaite share a border with Saudi Arabia. The fear was that Saddam might get control of too many oil fields and create a monopoly... it is harder to control a monopoly than a group of divided groups at each others throat.

    All that talk about giving the Middle East democracy... the only country in the region with universal sufferage is Iran.

    In Kuwaite I think they gave the vote to men in about 2004... women still can't vote.

    The royal families in the region are the instruments of colonialism and were created and put in power in the 1920s by the French and British governments.

    If Saudi Arabia got democracy the westerners would be kicked out of the country over night.

    Of course the US has kept Iraq cornered and sanctioned all these years and it bombed and invaded the country and now it supports civil war. Why? Iraq has only one way to pay its bills... to repair and replace things that are destroyed, to buy weapons to fight its internal enemies... oil. the US doesn't need the oil contracts, but it need oil countries to be pumping out oil to keep energy prices down.

    their main reason for supporting rebels in Syria is to undermine Iran.

    they don't care if the world is on fire and thousands of people are dying and suffering every day as long as they don't have to pay too much for petrol and heating oil.
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    Post  Asf on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:42 pm

    Of course the US has kept Iraq cornered and sanctioned all these years and it bombed and invaded the country and now it supports civil war. Why? Iraq has only one way to pay its bills... to repair and replace things that are destroyed, to buy weapons to fight its internal enemies... oil.


    Oil countries will sell oil in any case. Don't all those wars just increase the oil price? Shouldn't the States need to lower them?
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:56 pm

    Asf wrote:
    Of course the US has kept Iraq cornered and sanctioned all these years and it bombed and invaded the country and now it supports civil war. Why? Iraq has only one way to pay its bills... to repair and replace things that are destroyed, to buy weapons to fight its internal enemies... oil.


    Oil countries will sell oil in any case. Don't all those wars just increase the oil price? Shouldn't the States need to lower them?

    United States are not anymore an industrial power. An increase in oil price will affect them but will affect much more their enemies who happen to be industrial powerhouses.
    Russia might get affected but in the same time happens a lousy dollar appreciation  so all in all oil prize is relative irrelevant for the US economy for some time now,
    a US economy which now relies more and more in financial engineering,  dollar status and economic terrorism.


    inverse of the ratio since 2011
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:32 pm

    Asf wrote:
    Yes, the Shia axis is too powerful and millions of Iraqi's have volunteered to fight ISIS, let's not forget that the secular Arab govt's such as Syria, Algeria, and Egypt have an ax-to-grind with the Wahhabi and Salafi terror brigades. Russia, China, the Shia dominant countries of Iraq and Iran, and the Secular Arab govt's of Syria, Egypt, and Algeria are too powerful of a combination for the degenerate Gulf Monarchies to handle!

    Shia seems loosing a battle after battle. Syria is bleeding, Egypt has it's own problems and isn't involved. Russia has no strings of ISIS to pull, not to mention China. Situation is quite bad for secular islamic countries... soon we can see the rise of islamic fundamental terrorists even in Europe, not to mention Caucasus and ex-Soviet Middle East countries

    I have no idea what your talking about. Most of Syria has been re-taken by Assad forces, the Shia forces such as Hezbollah defeated the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS most of the time when they engaged them even (Hezbollah has also defeated the Israeli IDF more than once in the past), Nasrallah and the Iranian govt. have stated that they are confident with all the progress they've made that they will eventually win the war in Syria. Egypt is definitely in the mix, Qatar that finances the FSA in Syria also finances the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and Morsi's fatal mistake was that he tried to organize and invasion of Syria with the Egyptian army to save the terrorist rebels in Syria, in turn General (and now president) Sisi kicked Morsi out of power to prevent that and he immediately re-established diplomatic ties with Syria (which Morsi broke). You're probably not aware but General Nasser founded modern Egypt, and Egypt and Syria were once the same country under the Pan-Arab nationalist state, and unlike Sadat who was a neo-liberal, President Sisi is a bonafide Nasserist which makes him Pro-Syrian (as well as Pro-Russian). Iraq is in the same position as Syria was in the Autumn of 2011, when the Shia forces re-collect and re-organize then ISIS will start taking massive losses and start to be driven out of Iraq.
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:09 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Asf wrote:
    Yes, the Shia axis is too powerful and millions of Iraqi's have volunteered to fight ISIS, let's not forget that the secular Arab govt's such as Syria, Algeria, and Egypt have an ax-to-grind with the Wahhabi and Salafi terror brigades. Russia, China, the Shia dominant countries of Iraq and Iran, and the Secular Arab govt's of Syria, Egypt, and Algeria are too powerful of a combination for the degenerate Gulf Monarchies to handle!

    Shia seems loosing a battle after battle. Syria is bleeding, Egypt has it's own problems and isn't involved. Russia has no strings of ISIS to pull, not to mention China. Situation is quite bad for secular islamic countries... soon we can see the rise of islamic fundamental terrorists even in Europe, not to mention Caucasus and ex-Soviet Middle East countries

    I have no idea what your talking about. Most of Syria has been re-taken by Assad forces, the Shia forces such as Hezbollah defeated the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS most of the time when they engaged them even (Hezbollah has also defeated the Israeli IDF more than once in the past), Nasrallah and the Iranian govt. have stated that they are confident with all the progress they've made that they will eventually win the war in Syria. Egypt is definitely in the mix, Qatar that finances the FSA in Syria also finances the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and Morsi's fatal mistake was that he tried to organize and invasion of Syria with the Egyptian army to save the terrorist rebels in Syria, in turn General (and now president) Sisi kicked Morsi out of power to prevent that and he immediately re-established diplomatic ties with Syria (which Morsi broke). You're probably not aware but General Nasser founded modern Egypt, and Egypt and Syria were once the same country under the Pan-Arab nationalist state, and unlike Sadat who was a neo-liberal, President Sisi is a bonafide Nasserist which makes him Pro-Syrian (as well as Pro-Russian). Iraq is in the same position as Syria was in the Autumn of 2011, when the Shia forces re-collect and re-organize then ISIS will start taking massive losses and start to be driven out of Iraq.

    Thanks for replying.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:07 pm

    Oil countries will sell oil in any case. Don't all those wars just increase the oil price? Shouldn't the States need to lower them?

    As long as the oil fields are secure and pumping (note US forces bypassed the towns in Iraq during the last invasion and went straight to the oilfields and protected them...

    Uncertainty increases the price of oil and speculation trading... but a damaged oil producing country needing to rebuild needs to pump oil at max capacity. Without that need to rebuild they can afford to reduce production and let the price per barrel climb a bit to get a better return.

    US companies might miss out on oil contracts but US companies will be competing for contracts to rebuild the country...

    There was a reason that Iran did very little to interfere with US attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan. Very simply Saddams Sunni regime was Irans greatest enemy in the region, while the Taleban were Saudi and Pakistani supported Sunni based too. Iran has benefitted from the US presence in the ME.

    Both countries are now rather friendlier to Iran because of their Shia majorities.
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    Post  Strizh on Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:46 pm

    It seems like there is a first Mi35m casualty Sad in Iraq!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/901963.html
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    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:51 pm

    Strizh wrote:It seems like there is a first Mi35m casualty Sad in Iraq!
    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/901963.html

    Sad.


    The crash place looks rather very wierd. No armor parts to see and the fire from crash can not melt or burn away titanium and steel plates.
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    Post  iraqidabab on Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:03 pm

    How do you know it's not MI 17.

    No MI-35 crash has been reported
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    Post  Strizh on Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:46 pm

    ^ Mhm good question!
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    Post  medo on Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:18 pm

    IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News #1 - Page 4 10440110

    IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News #1 - Page 4 10511110

    In Iraq ISIS shot down Iraqi Mi-17 helicopter.
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    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:12 am

    So we got Americans working on the army


    About half the advisers, which include senior Army Special Forces troops, have set up a joint operations center somewhere in Baghdad. The other half are beginning to determine how they’ll work with Iraqi military commanders at the higher headquarters and brigade levels.


    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/iraq-armed-drones-pentagon-108394.html#ixzz35yhjP6e5


    I hope we get Russia working on Iraq's intel agency, The Soviet KGB worked on Iraq's intel agency back in the day, currently the one sucks and the US won't help with that.
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    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:33 am

    Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.

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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:35 am

    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.
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    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:40 am

    well can't really confirm, it's not anyone official that said it just some other user on a different forum.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:08 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.
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    Post  Werewolf on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:17 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.

    Mi-8/17 like any other utiltiy/transport helicopter have as standard no armor at all, only some military armored versions have Bottom armored, rest is still unarmored.

    If a Mi-24 crashes and burns out it looks more like this.

    IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News #1 - Page 4 Crash_grand

    The cockpit must stay mostly intact. The tail and after section like the outerskin are made of aluminum alloy, which burns away at normal open fire temperatures, but steel and titanium at the cockpit can not burn away at 800 even at 1000° Celsius.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:33 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    iraqidabab wrote:Looks like 1 Mi-35m has been downed indeed.


    From those pictures it actually did not look like anything armored, otherwise there would be parts on the crash place, which can not burn away unlike Mi-8/17 or anything else that is unarmored that leaves only rotorhub and blades.

    If it was a Mi-35 that was shot down most likely the heavily armored cockpit would of survived, the Mi-8 series of helicopters has no where near the same amount of armor so the destruction pile looks more that of Mi-8 series helicopters.

    Mi-8/17 like any other utiltiy/transport helicopter have as standard no armor at all, only some military armored versions have Bottom armored, rest is still unarmored.

    If a Mi-24 crashes and burns out it looks more like this.

    IRAQ - Fight on Islamic State: News #1 - Page 4 Crash_grand

    The cockpit must stay mostly intact. The tail and after section like the outerskin are made of aluminum alloy, which burns away at normal open fire temperatures, but steel and titanium at the cockpit can not burn away at 800 even at 1000° Celsius.


    Yep, as I thought. So the claim that a Mi-35 was shot down is a myth that has been busted! Unless a massive armored cockpit shows up around the debris field in pictures that have not been previously published, the likeliness that a Mi-35 was shot down is slim-to-none!
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    Post  iraqidabab on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:51 am

    A post from someone on another forum


    Hyde:

    You can see the main rotor head, and it's definitely the one of the Mi-28, so it's a Mi-35M. The Mi-8/17 and Mi-24 have a different rotor head.

    You can spot it by seeing the "arched" titanium "blade-holder" element reaching over to connect to something (looks like built in dampers to me, but I don't know), going from the rotor blade to the "damper". The Mi-17 rotor head is different and doesn't have those arches. And no Mi-17 version, not even the latest one not even released yet, uses the Mi-28 rotor head. They all use the Mi-8 rotor head.

    Pay attention to the lower left element:

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