Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Share
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1378
    Points : 1378
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:11 am

    And no, Lider was not cancelled but their are gonna be launched after any of HDs or CVNs.
    I doubt they'll start building LHDs &/ CVNs before Liders. They r less costly, can be built faster, & will be needed to escort those bigger ships most of the time when outside the EEZ.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18977
    Points : 19533
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:08 pm

    A decent sized CVN will take 10-15 years from laying the keel to getting her operational... half that for destroyers and cruisers...
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:25 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    And no, Lider was not cancelled but their are gonna be launched after any of HDs or CVNs.
    I doubt they'll start building LHDs &/ CVNs before Liders. They r less costly, can be built faster, & will be needed to escort those bigger ships most of the time when outside the EEZ.  

    but liders will be their escort ships.  You dont need costly escort cruisers if you dont have carriers. For everything else Gorsskhov M is just fine.



    GarryB wrote:A decent sized CVN will take 10-15 years from laying the keel to getting her operational... half that for destroyers and cruisers...

    unlikely they will launch a "decent CVN" innext 12-15 years
    avatar
    verkhoturye51

    Posts : 225
    Points : 223
    Join date : 2018-03-02

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:52 pm

    Liders and extant cruisers aren't escort ships in Russia. Russian navy has cruiser groups instead of carrier strike groups. Purely defensive, anti-CVN-warfare concept. Of course that's current, Soviet inherited strategy, that may change in the coming decades.

    2 LHD Priboys/Lavinas will be built in the early 2020s, before destroyers/cruisers. There was some talk about changing those concepts away from helicopter focused into something more universally amfibious. But earlier this month Borisov mentioned LHDs again, so we'll see.
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1378
    Points : 1378
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:01 pm

    but liders will be their escort ships. You dont need costly escort cruisers if you dont have carriers.

    Well, they don't have enough big warships, escorts or not, & Leaders can be both if/when their LHDs & CBGs deploy. W/o them, they'll be sitting ducks, do u think it's a good idea to have those built 1st & then not able to deploy while waiting for the Liders & other ships to be built?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18977
    Points : 19533
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:34 am

    unlikely they will launch a "decent CVN" innext 12-15 years

    That is not what I am saying... I am saying that in the time it will take them to get CVNs needing escort ships into service, they will have plenty of time to produce the escort ships too.

    They might develop a specialist class especially for the job that are basically arsenal ships intended to support carriers... much like the current expectation that in the future F-35s will operate with C-130 converted aircraft carrying enormous numbers of missiles... to compensate for the lack of weapon capacity of modern stealth aircraft...
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    unlikely they will launch a "decent CVN" innext 12-15 years

    That is not what I am saying... I am saying that in the time it will take them to get CVNs needing escort ships into service, they will have plenty of time to produce the escort ships too.

    agreed in this case


    They might develop a specialist class especially for the job that are basically arsenal ships intended to support carriers... much like the current expectation that in the future F-35s will operate with C-130 converted aircraft carrying enormous numbers of missiles... to compensate for the lack of weapon capacity of modern stealth aircraft...

    The again you tell me I am right thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup smaller CVN and big escort arsenal ships thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup more cost effective solution



    BTW F-35 will more likely be assisted by swarm of drones then C-130 IMHO ;-)
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18977
    Points : 19533
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:23 am

    The again you tell me I am right thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup smaller CVN and big escort arsenal ships thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup more cost effective solution

    See, now you are just reading into this what you want to read.

    The presence or existence of arsenal ships has nothing to do with the potential size of any carrier developed... in fact an Arsenal ship is a cargo ship full of ready to fire weapons, so in theory should be relatively cheap to mass produce... but quite expensive to fully arm.

    With the money saved you could go for larger carriers that offer better potential than smaller vessels... a larger carrier can have larger radar antenna and larger AWACS platforms operating from them... allowing better situational awareness and therefore better supporting the naval fleet commanders decisions in difficult situations...
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 3923
    Points : 3961
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:25 am

    GarryB wrote:

    With the money saved you could go for larger carriers that offer better potential than smaller vessels... a larger carrier can have larger radar antenna and larger AWACS platforms operating from them... allowing better situational awareness and therefore better supporting the naval fleet commanders decisions in difficult situations...

    Off Topic That's why only 2 richest countries in the world have "Real" CVNs? USA and China. The rest just cannot afford them. Off Topic

    miroslav

    Posts : 101
    Points : 103
    Join date : 2016-11-16
    Location : Land of Serbia

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  miroslav on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:34 pm

    I knew I will find this video sooner or later. It was a part of a much larger documentary that showed the inside of the "torpedo bay" on PtG.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2522
    Points : 2516
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:45 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    Off Topic That's why only 2 richest countries in the world have "Real" CVNs? USA and China. The rest just cannot afford them. Off Topic

    You mean USA and France I think.
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 1378
    Points : 1378
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:49 pm

    China will join them in a few years. And with nuclear icebreakers that no1 else has, the RF & China will get richer.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2522
    Points : 2516
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:51 pm

    miroslav wrote:I knew I will find this video sooner or later. It was a part of a much larger documentary that showed the inside of the "torpedo bay" on PtG.
    [youtube]JJCim9NkQLY]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK-2_Vyuga

    There is the same video but with Udaloy II.

    Edit: it is probably the successor of the RPK-2 that is on PtG. And also on udaloy II.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-N-16
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12405
    Points : 12884
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:34 am

    Short but interesting video. Battlecruiser "Pyotr Veliky" launching the 'raketa-torpeda' (anti-submarine missile) RPK-6 Vodopad ("waterfall")/

    Missile has dual-role; it can be armed with either a 400 mm anti-submarine torpedo or a nuclear depth charge.

    https://www.facebook.com/mod.mil.rus/videos/1925731294185002/

    MoD official facebook site
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1388
    Points : 1390
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:06 am

    George1 wrote:Short but interesting video. Battlecruiser "Pyotr Veliky" launching the 'raketa-torpeda' (anti-submarine missile) RPK-6 Vodopad ("waterfall")/

    Missile has dual-role; it can be armed with either a 400 mm anti-submarine torpedo or a nuclear depth charge.

    https://www.facebook.com/mod.mil.rus/videos/1925731294185002/

    MoD official facebook site

    Thats a great vid! I think its the first time I've seen the full firing sequence.
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 1333
    Points : 1333
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:02 pm

    Somewhere in this forum is a video from the launch of a Vodopad from a Udaloy class destroyer. At night. After the launch you could see the water burn.
    avatar
    Gibraltar

    Posts : 26
    Points : 28
    Join date : 2018-09-22

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Gibraltar on Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:22 pm

    Think is this one

    https://youtu.be/2WDRcuigIE0

    Sent from Topic'it App

    hoom

    Posts : 1432
    Points : 1422
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:36 pm

    The grid fins for the initial underwater bit is a surprise.

    This launch method while initially perplexingly bizarre & complex is actually growing on me.
    I like the idea of throwing the missile bodily away from the ship before the main engine starts, means if something goes foobar its more likely to do so at a reasonable distance from the ship rather than within a few meters of the bridge like on a lot of modern ships.
    (sooner or later someone's going to lose their entire bridge crew)

    I'm now picturing ships built with arrays of horizontal launcher tubes down the sides, like a rebirth of the Age of Sail style broadside! dunno
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 1333
    Points : 1333
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:12 pm

    Vodopad was developed for subs. Instead of developing something new or change the launch sequence they "simply" used it also from ships.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2522
    Points : 2516
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:17 pm

    Hole wrote:Vodopad was developed for subs. Instead of developing something new or change the launch sequence they "simply" used it also from ships.

    Well it also let free the 2x4 missile launchers on Udaloy II for moskit. This way Udaloy II had the same power as udaloy I plus Sovromeny.
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 1333
    Points : 1333
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:40 am

    Only thing missing is a medium or long-range air defence system.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18977
    Points : 19533
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:28 pm

    The rear grid fins means it is the 91RE2... a member of the Klub family of missiles that can be fired from the UKSK launcher, and also 533mm torpedo tubes...
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 1333
    Points : 1333
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:13 pm

    Official MoD release claims Vodopad.

    Vodopad:



    Kaliber:



    Look like twins.

    hoom

    Posts : 1432
    Points : 1422
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  hoom on Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:37 am

    Wouldn't be surprising if the Kalibr is a Vodopad modified for VLS.

    What is surprising is I don't see where does the rocket exhaust come out with the rear covered by that cross shaped bit? I guess it must detach after fins deploy or something?

    Sponsored content

    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:37 am