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    [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:11 am

    And no, Lider was not cancelled but their are gonna be launched after any of HDs or CVNs.
    I doubt they'll start building LHDs &/ CVNs before Liders. They r less costly, can be built faster, & will be needed to escort those bigger ships most of the time when outside the EEZ.
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:08 pm

    A decent sized CVN will take 10-15 years from laying the keel to getting her operational... half that for destroyers and cruisers...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:25 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    And no, Lider was not cancelled but their are gonna be launched after any of HDs or CVNs.
    I doubt they'll start building LHDs &/ CVNs before Liders. They r less costly, can be built faster, & will be needed to escort those bigger ships most of the time when outside the EEZ.  

    but liders will be their escort ships.  You dont need costly escort cruisers if you dont have carriers. For everything else Gorsskhov M is just fine.



    GarryB wrote:A decent sized CVN will take 10-15 years from laying the keel to getting her operational... half that for destroyers and cruisers...

    unlikely they will launch a "decent CVN" innext 12-15 years
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:52 pm

    Liders and extant cruisers aren't escort ships in Russia. Russian navy has cruiser groups instead of carrier strike groups. Purely defensive, anti-CVN-warfare concept. Of course that's current, Soviet inherited strategy, that may change in the coming decades.

    2 LHD Priboys/Lavinas will be built in the early 2020s, before destroyers/cruisers. There was some talk about changing those concepts away from helicopter focused into something more universally amfibious. But earlier this month Borisov mentioned LHDs again, so we'll see.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:01 pm

    but liders will be their escort ships. You dont need costly escort cruisers if you dont have carriers.

    Well, they don't have enough big warships, escorts or not, & Leaders can be both if/when their LHDs & CBGs deploy. W/o them, they'll be sitting ducks, do u think it's a good idea to have those built 1st & then not able to deploy while waiting for the Liders & other ships to be built?
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:34 am

    unlikely they will launch a "decent CVN" innext 12-15 years

    That is not what I am saying... I am saying that in the time it will take them to get CVNs needing escort ships into service, they will have plenty of time to produce the escort ships too.

    They might develop a specialist class especially for the job that are basically arsenal ships intended to support carriers... much like the current expectation that in the future F-35s will operate with C-130 converted aircraft carrying enormous numbers of missiles... to compensate for the lack of weapon capacity of modern stealth aircraft...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:43 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    unlikely they will launch a "decent CVN" innext 12-15 years

    That is not what I am saying... I am saying that in the time it will take them to get CVNs needing escort ships into service, they will have plenty of time to produce the escort ships too.

    agreed in this case


    They might develop a specialist class especially for the job that are basically arsenal ships intended to support carriers... much like the current expectation that in the future F-35s will operate with C-130 converted aircraft carrying enormous numbers of missiles... to compensate for the lack of weapon capacity of modern stealth aircraft...

    The again you tell me I am right thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup smaller CVN and big escort arsenal ships thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup more cost effective solution



    BTW F-35 will more likely be assisted by swarm of drones then C-130 IMHO ;-)
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:23 am

    The again you tell me I am right thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup smaller CVN and big escort arsenal ships thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup more cost effective solution

    See, now you are just reading into this what you want to read.

    The presence or existence of arsenal ships has nothing to do with the potential size of any carrier developed... in fact an Arsenal ship is a cargo ship full of ready to fire weapons, so in theory should be relatively cheap to mass produce... but quite expensive to fully arm.

    With the money saved you could go for larger carriers that offer better potential than smaller vessels... a larger carrier can have larger radar antenna and larger AWACS platforms operating from them... allowing better situational awareness and therefore better supporting the naval fleet commanders decisions in difficult situations...
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:25 am

    GarryB wrote:

    With the money saved you could go for larger carriers that offer better potential than smaller vessels... a larger carrier can have larger radar antenna and larger AWACS platforms operating from them... allowing better situational awareness and therefore better supporting the naval fleet commanders decisions in difficult situations...

    Off Topic That's why only 2 richest countries in the world have "Real" CVNs? USA and China. The rest just cannot afford them. Off Topic

    miroslav

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  miroslav on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:34 pm

    I knew I will find this video sooner or later. It was a part of a much larger documentary that showed the inside of the "torpedo bay" on PtG.
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    Isos

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:45 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:

    Off Topic That's why only 2 richest countries in the world have "Real" CVNs? USA and China. The rest just cannot afford them. Off Topic

    You mean USA and France I think.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:49 pm

    China will join them in a few years. And with nuclear icebreakers that no1 else has, the RF & China will get richer.
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    Isos

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  Isos on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:51 pm

    miroslav wrote:I knew I will find this video sooner or later. It was a part of a much larger documentary that showed the inside of the "torpedo bay" on PtG.
    [youtube]JJCim9NkQLY]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPK-2_Vyuga

    There is the same video but with Udaloy II.

    Edit: it is probably the successor of the RPK-2 that is on PtG. And also on udaloy II.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-N-16
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:46 am

    That's why only 2 richest countries in the world have "Real" CVNs? USA and China. The rest just cannot afford them.

    The Soviets didn't bother because they had no SLOC, but even they were developing new carriers.

    You talk like a new small carrier will be cheap and affordable... a small carrier would not be that much cheaper than a bigger one, and certainly no cheaper to operate.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    That's why only 2 richest countries in the world have "Real" CVNs? USA and China. The rest just cannot afford them.

    The Soviets didn't bother because they had no SLOC, but even they were developing new carriers.

    You talk like a new small carrier will be cheap and affordable... a small carrier would not be that much cheaper than a bigger one, and certainly no cheaper to operate.

    Off Topic USSR was then world's second economy nothing changed in this regard. Small is 1/4 price when you build and similar cost when you operate Off Topic
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    GarryB

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:56 am

    Which suggests spending a little bit more on the purchase price to get a much better and more useful product makes sense...

    hoom

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  hoom on Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:19 am

    I knew I will find this video sooner or later. It was a part of a much larger documentary that showed the inside of the "torpedo bay" on PtG.
    You could have looked at the previous page of the thread, George1 posted same vid in November 2017.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: [Official] 'Peter The Great' News Thread:

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:21 am

    GarryB wrote:Which suggests spending a little bit more on the purchase price to get a much better and more useful product makes sense...

    spending 4xmore to do same job. Numbers dont lie thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

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