Iraqi Air Force

OminousSpudd wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

sheytanelkebir wrote:no money... and Russia is not giving credit (their economic situation doesn't allow them either). This leaves Iraq with getting US and Chinese credit  for armaments.

That's quite foolish of Russia, they have the cash for it.
They just don't spend them on Iraq, which will come back to bite them in the long-term, as Syria with allienated or pro-US Iraq is a non-starter.

Iraq does not feel alienated by Russia. The intel-sharing Russia set up with them during the beginning of the Syria ops was proof of this (much to the chagrin of Uncle Sam). Besides, Russia was the one that jumped in and supplied the hardware when the US was unwilling to do so, if Iraq is in a desperate position again, Russia will help.

Be that as it may, money talks. Right now Iraq is receiving its most sophisticated fighter jets from USA, not Russia. Iraq also cancelled or did not proceed with major contracts with Russia a few months ago. Iirc it was about MiGs and T-90s, I could be wrong here. US offers FMS packages, if Russia can't compete with that, they will be kicked out of Iraq as fast as they got invited.

KiloGolf wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

sheytanelkebir wrote:no money... and Russia is not giving credit (their economic situation doesn't allow them either). This leaves Iraq with getting US and Chinese credit  for armaments.

That's quite foolish of Russia, they have the cash for it.
They just don't spend them on Iraq, which will come back to bite them in the long-term, as Syria with allienated or pro-US Iraq is a non-starter.

Iraq does not feel alienated by Russia. The intel-sharing Russia set up with them during the beginning of the Syria ops was proof of this (much to the chagrin of Uncle Sam). Besides, Russia was the one that jumped in and supplied the hardware when the US was unwilling to do so, if Iraq is in a desperate position again, Russia will help.

Be that as it may, money talks. Right now Iraq is receiving its most sophisticated fighter jets from USA, not Russia. Iraq also cancelled or did not proceed with major contracts with Russia a few months ago. Iirc it was about MiGs and T-90s, I could be wrong here. US offers FMS packages, if Russia can't compete with that, they will be kicked out of Iraq as fast as they got invited.

I wouldn't be so sure... Those F-16s were an ongoing huge debacle, and were not there when Iraq needed them most. This is interesting considering the Maliki government or any Iraqi government really are only there because the US wants them there. The Su-25s, Mi-35s, Mi-28s, made a huge difference, and Iraq got them as soon as they turned to Russia for them, but simply supplying Iraq on credit is not good business when considering Iraq's future is... unpredictable at best. Remember how much the US huffed and puffed when Iraq acquired those toys? I can only imagine the external pressure they must be under to forget Russia altogether and buy made in USA... Take this into consideration when they cancel or forego Russian offers for more expensive American gear.

One must always take into consideration that one power is gaining, the other is waning. Only the desperately blind refuse this these days, and it would seem Iraq is not as blind as the US would like.

OminousSpudd wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

sheytanelkebir wrote:no money... and Russia is not giving credit (their economic situation doesn't allow them either). This leaves Iraq with getting US and Chinese credit  for armaments.

That's quite foolish of Russia, they have the cash for it.
They just don't spend them on Iraq, which will come back to bite them in the long-term, as Syria with allienated or pro-US Iraq is a non-starter.

Iraq does not feel alienated by Russia. The intel-sharing Russia set up with them during the beginning of the Syria ops was proof of this (much to the chagrin of Uncle Sam). Besides, Russia was the one that jumped in and supplied the hardware when the US was unwilling to do so, if Iraq is in a desperate position again, Russia will help.

Be that as it may, money talks. Right now Iraq is receiving its most sophisticated fighter jets from USA, not Russia. Iraq also cancelled or did not proceed with major contracts with Russia a few months ago. Iirc it was about MiGs and T-90s, I could be wrong here. US offers FMS packages, if Russia can't compete with that, they will be kicked out of Iraq as fast as they got invited.

I wouldn't be so sure... Those F-16s were an ongoing huge debacle, and were not there when Iraq needed them most. This is interesting considering the Maliki government or any Iraqi government really are only there because the US wants them there. The Su-25s, Mi-35s, Mi-28s, made a huge difference, and Iraq got them as soon as they turned to Russia for them, but simply supplying Iraq on credit is not good business when considering Iraq's future is... unpredictable at best. Remember how much the US huffed and puffed when Iraq acquired those toys? I can only imagine the external pressure they must be under to forget Russia altogether and buy made in USA... Take this into consideration when they cancel or forego Russian offers for more expensive American gear.

One must always take into consideration that one power is gaining, the other is waning. Only the desperately blind refuse this these days, and it would seem Iraq is not as blind as the US would like.

While the USA undoubtedly applies pressure on Iraq to buy only American military gear, I'm not sure it is really the driving factor behind Iraq cancelling some of the deals with Russia. Money is the biggest problem now, they simply cannot fund some of these deals anymore. They also had to cancel several purchases and offers from the USA, including another 140 M1A1s, Strykers, Apache helicopters, and Bradley tanks. The USA gave them a loan to fund some of the other purchases as mentioned by Sheytan. I think Iraq is simply looking for someone to offer them a good deal at this point, and whether it is Russia, China, USA, or someone else, they will buy from them.

They're also getting more interested in technology transfer deals. There is news of them securing deals to manufacture Fateh 110 missiles, Cherchen ATGMs, T-72 upgrade program, and others.

yea. its purely about the money (or lack of) now. Iraq is pretty much "non aligned" as of today... so they host both NATO and US forces and commands... alongside Russian Advisors, Intel Sharing office and Iranian IRGC advisors... meanwhile there's a whole team of Chinese officers operating out of Kut Air Base... and a few miles down the road Koreans are building a new Airbase at Suwayra. The US has accepted  the "multi-polar" relations in Iraq, and its also a way of keeping communications channels open (the Russian/Iranian/Syrian/Iraqi intel office is only a couple of kilometers from the US Embassy!).

But the issue with the Russian weapons orders that have been "put on hold" is purely based on Iraq's lack of credit worthiness from a Russian perspective. Whilst the Chinese and Americans are willing to throw a few billion here and there to further their interests. Thing is Russians do control a few oil fields in Iraq (not as many as the chinese of course)... so I would have thought they could come to an agreeable deal on credit for weapons... but sadly they haven't yet as far as we know

Lets see what happens in 2017... things can turn quickly.


PS Zarib, Iraq didn't cancel any of those above mentioned items from the US (apaches, additional 175 abrams, 220 bradleys, 24 AT6C etc...). Iraq NEVER ordered them in the first place and only asked for an offer, for comparison with other offers... and for example the apache lost in competition against the Mi28Ne, the M1A1SA lost against the T90S, the M2A2 Bradley lost against the BMP-3 and as far as I know the AT-6C lost against the CH-4 UCAV.

Go ahead and search... you won't find a single FMS contract for any of the above items only a DSCA offer.

medo wrote:
China could offer J-11B and J-16, but I don*t think Russia will allow China to sell their Flankers.

Yea I'm pretty sure that licencing restrictions means that China cannot export their locally made flanker variants... which is why we see them trying to sell JF-17 and J10As...

A while ago, US froze Iraqi money in US banks of something around $75B or less that was to be used to purchase Russian gear. After negotiations, US unfroze the accounts but Iraq decided not to buy Russian gear and purchased American. Specifically continued on the F-16 deal when they were threatening to cancel it (Iraq) in the first place. Iraq may not have the money. But to make matters worst, the US is constantly pressuring Iraq to not turn to Russia for its equipment.

sheytanelkebir wrote:yea. its purely about the money (or lack of) now. Iraq is pretty much "non aligned" as of today... so they host both NATO and US forces and commands... alongside Russian Advisors, Intel Sharing office and Iranian IRGC advisors... meanwhile there's a whole team of Chinese officers operating out of Kut Air Base... and a few miles down the road Koreans are building a new Airbase at Suwayra. The US has accepted  the "multi-polar" relations in Iraq, and its also a way of keeping communications channels open (the Russian/Iranian/Syrian/Iraqi intel office is only a couple of kilometers from the US Embassy!).

But the issue with the Russian weapons orders that have been "put on hold" is purely based on Iraq's lack of credit worthiness from a Russian perspective. Whilst the Chinese and Americans are willing to throw a few billion here and there to further their interests. Thing is Russians do control a few oil fields in Iraq (not as many as the chinese of course)... so I would have thought they could come to an agreeable deal on credit for weapons... but sadly they haven't yet as far as we know

Lets see what happens in 2017... things can turn quickly.


PS Zarib, Iraq didn't cancel any of those above mentioned items from the US (apaches, additional 175 abrams, 220 bradleys, 24 AT6C etc...). Iraq NEVER ordered them in the first place and only asked for an offer, for comparison with other offers... and for example the apache lost in competition against the Mi28Ne, the M1A1SA lost against the T90S, the M2A2 Bradley lost against the BMP-3 and as far as I know the AT-6C lost against the CH-4 UCAV.

Go ahead and search... you won't find a single FMS contract for any of the above items only a DSCA offer.

Nice one thanks. From the look of it USA and PRC are willing to loan more of their cash than Russian. Which is my point, they play the risky game but will end up with more returns if it all works out for them.

miketheterrible wrote:A while ago, US froze Iraqi money in US banks of something around $75B or less that was to be used to purchase Russian gear.  After negotiations, US unfroze the accounts but Iraq decided not to buy Russian gear and purchased American.  Specifically continued on the F-16 deal when they were threatening to cancel it (Iraq) in the first place.  Iraq may not have the money.  But to make matters worst, the US is constantly pressuring Iraq to not turn to Russia for its equipment.

yea... the money in the Federal Reserve bank of New York (fluctuates between $70-$100Bn) is there as a guarantee for many loans and lines of credit and investment programmes by foreign firms... its basically cash that is deposited by Iraq as some sort of guarantee against default. So that money acts as an insurance guarantee for loads of things from a 100,000 housing unit city being built by a Korean contractor (Basmayah), to Chinese and French railways and Boeing aircraft etc... Its not cash that Iraqis can simply "withdraw" and pay for stuff with.

Anyone identify the aircraft directly behind these officers, not the DH-6 in the background, photo taken a couple of weeks ago at al Muthana?

JohninMK wrote:Anyone identify the aircraft directly behind these officers, not the DH-6 in the background, photo taken a couple of weeks ago at al Muthana?

Sukhoi Su-25

TheArmenian wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Anyone identify the aircraft directly behind these officers, not the DH-6 in the background, photo taken a couple of weeks ago at al Muthana?

Sukhoi Su-25

Thanks.

Serbian training aircraft UTVA Lasta-95N in the Air Force of Iraq





http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2677469.html

Iraq Air Force received the first six combat training planes T-50IQ



https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3068435.html

there is a mistake in that article.

the T50IQ and all other air force training assets will be based in Suwayra air base in Southern Iraq once its completed.

The air force air academy will never return to Tikrit.

Short clip of Iraqi AF strike against IS in Syria

Statistics of the combat use of the Iraqi Air Force

The Iraqi Air Force website at www.facebook.com published the interesting official statistics on the participation of the new Iraqi Air Force in the hostilities against the "Islamic State" between June 10, 2014 and December 31, 2017.


Statistics of the combat use of the Air Force of Iraq in the period from 10/06/2014 to 31/12/2017 (c) Iraqi Air Force

In particular, it is reported that for the specified time, the Su-25 attack aircraft of the Air Force of Iraq (in 2014-2016 Iraq received from Russia, Belarus and Iran in total 22 Su-25 aircraft) made 3,562 sorties, while the Lockheed Martin F fighters -16IQ (from 2015 to the end of 2017, Iraq received 18 aircraft from the US) - only 514 sorties. Another 398 combat sorties were made by light combat aircraft L-159 (in 2015-2017, 13 planes were delivered from the Czech Republic). Another 990 assault missions for bombing were carried out by six An-32B military transport aircraft. Finally, 3459 sorties were flown by light reconnaissance-strike aircraft Cessna AC-208B Combat Caravan, which had only three aircraft (then two, in 2017, three more), and they produced 2660 Hellfire missiles.

Attention is also drawn to the intensive use of reconnaissance aircraft (3,241 sorties of Beechcraft 350ER / ISR aircraft and 1118 sorties of Cessna RC-208B aircraft) and military transport aircraft (1,154 flights of Lockheed Martin C-130E / J-30 aircraft and 5949 AN-32B).

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3171676.html

Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ


As previously reported by bmpd colleagues, Korea Aerospace Industries Corporation (KAI) signed a $ 1.1 billion contract to supply Iraq with 24 combat-training aircraft / light fighters T-50IQ on December 12, 2013. This aircraft is adapted to the requirements of the Air Force of Iraq version of the developed and produced KAI combat trainer / light fighter FA-50 - version of the training aircraft T-50 Golden Eagle joint development of KAI and Lockheed Martin. At the time of the conclusion, this contract became the largest one-time agreement on the sale of South Korean arms for export. The cost of the contract includes preparation of the Iraqi air and ground crew. Subsequently, the KAI also concluded several contracts for a comprehensive support of Iraqi aircraft for a period of 25 years, with a total value of $ 2 billion. Under the terms of the contract, the deliveries of the Iraqi Air Force's T-50IQ aircraft should be launched in April 2016 and carried out within 12 months by April 2017 . The first T-50IQ aircraft made the first flight at the KAI enterprise in Sanchon on July 13, 2015, and the first five aircraft were formally transferred to the Iraqi Air Force in Sanchon in December 2015. In fact, the deliveries were significantly delayed due to the financial problems of the Iraqi side and the delay in the training of Iraqi personnel. Only in March 2017, the first six T-50IQ aircraft were delivered to Iraq to Basra, the entry of which was delayed until the end of the year. The second batch should be delivered in 2018.













https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3236516.html

George1 wrote:Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ


As previously reported by bmpd colleagues, Korea Aerospace Industries Corporation (KAI) signed a $ 1.1 billion contract to supply Iraq with 24 combat-training aircraft / light fighters T-50IQ on December 12, 2013. This aircraft is adapted to the requirements of the Air Force of Iraq version of the developed and produced KAI combat trainer / light fighter FA-50 - version of the training aircraft T-50 Golden Eagle joint development of KAI and Lockheed Martin. At the time of the conclusion, this contract became the largest one-time agreement on the sale of South Korean arms for export. The cost of the contract includes preparation of the Iraqi air and ground crew. Subsequently, the KAI also concluded several contracts for a comprehensive support of Iraqi aircraft for a period of 25 years, with a total value of $ 2 billion. Under the terms of the contract, the deliveries of the Iraqi Air Force's T-50IQ aircraft should be launched in April 2016 and carried out within 12 months by April 2017 . The first T-50IQ aircraft made the first flight at the KAI enterprise in Sanchon on July 13, 2015, and the first five aircraft were formally transferred to the Iraqi Air Force in Sanchon in December 2015. In fact, the deliveries were significantly delayed due to the financial problems of the Iraqi side and the delay in the training of Iraqi personnel. Only in March 2017, the first six T-50IQ aircraft were delivered to Iraq to Basra, the entry of which was delayed until the end of the year. The second batch should be delivered in 2018.













https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3236516.html

I still think iraq would have been better with yak-130 cheaper or even JF-17 or Mig-29M2 or Su-30 if they had the cash. It would also be a good idea for iraq to upgrade it's su-25 to SM3 and could also purchase a handful of Su-24M2 with gefest etc ideal for the type of conflict cheap dumb bombs become very useful for strap for cash countries facing low tech wars. A mix of the above would be ideal Su-30 for long range interceptor and the cheaper mig-29M2 to protect cities and airfields. Su-24M2 for long range bombing  (bombing workhorse) upgraded su-25 for CAS.
JF-17 and yak-130 patrolling and COIN along with the other aircraft in iraqi inventory including mi-28 & mi-35 & Mi-17. Iraqi airforce needs to be ground attack focused with only a small number dedicated for interceptor duties enough just to protect airspace in a light capacity as the threat is small.

d_taddei2 wrote:

George1 wrote:Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ

I still think iraq would have been better with yak-130 cheaper

but this is trainer not attack/fighter plane besides KAT T-50 is almost 2x faster on niveau of Rafale or F-18.

or even JF-17 or Mig-29M2 or Su-30 if they had the cash.

all more expensive especially Su-30. JF-17 is both more expensive and less modern than Korean one.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:

George1 wrote:Iraqi Air Force received the next six combat trainers T-50IQ

I still think iraq would have been better with yak-130 cheaper

but this is trainer not attack/fighter plane besides KAT T-50 is almost 2x faster on niveau of Rafale or F-18.

or even JF-17 or Mig-29M2 or Su-30 if they had the cash.

all more expensive especially Su-30. JF-17 is both more expensive and less modern than Korean one.

Iraq doesn't really need fast aircraft only a handful for interceptor duties. I did state Su-30 if they had the cash. As for others being more expensive depends on the source being used some sources state T-50 more expensive than J-17 and mig. According to iraqinews article iraq paid $1.1 billion for 24 aircraft including training which divided gives $45.8 million each (Inc training) I am pretty sure they could have got J-17 or mig-29m2 for less. And I think mig-29m2 & J-17 are faster than T-50. One other thing to consider is cost of maintenance. The yak-130 has capacity to be armed and would be ideal for patrolling due to reduced costs but not as an interceptor unless against drones helicopters slower aircraft.

d_taddei2 wrote:Iraq doesn't really need fast aircraft only a handful for interceptor duties.

all countries do

As for others being more expensive depends on the source being used some sources state T-50 more expensive than J-17 and mig. According to iraqinews article iraq paid $1.1 billion for 24 aircraft including training which divided gives $45.8 million each (Inc training)

depending what was in package.Usually this includes training, ground, and logistical support. So price of plane is just a fraction of cost. BTW Su-35 for China was 105mln $ /per fighter $hwrwe for Russian AF is about 2 blns Rub (~ 33 mlns $)

I am pretty sure they could have got J-17 or mig-29m2 for less. And I think mig-29m2 &  J-17 are faster than T-50.

Prices per plane are higher for both MiG and J-17. Unless you buy Chinese stuff without any support? besides Chinese electronics in olde designs IMHO still doesn't match Korean one.
Additionally T-50 can be both fighter and trainer.

The yak-130 has capacity to be armed and would be ideal for patrolling due to reduced costs but not as an interceptor unless against drones helicopters slower aircraft.

Not sure if Yak would be interested in this or what was precise requirements of Iraqi AF. The fact is Koreans just won this time.

Itisof course my "IMHO" against your "IMHO"

The T-50IQ won because it has a design life of 10,000 flying hours before major overhaul. On that basis, it has a very good price per hour and very well automated maintenance and operational systems to make it easy to operate and maintain.

sheytanelkebir wrote:The T-50IQ won because it has a design life of 10,000 flying hours before major overhaul. On that basis, it has a very good price per hour and very well automated maintenance and operational systems to make it easy to operate and maintain.

That's was less what more less I thought. Cost of lifecyccle. Besides surely good dual purpose plane.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

sheytanelkebir wrote:The T-50IQ won because it has a design life of 10,000 flying hours before major overhaul. On that basis, it has a very good price per hour and very well automated maintenance and operational systems to make it easy to operate and maintain.

That's was less what more less I thought. Cost of lifecyccle. Besides surely good dual purpose plane.

Plus, they already operate F-16s which are in core, extremly similar. Far easier for both pilots and ground crews to deal with it.