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    Iran/US tensions

    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:08 pm

    There is no stealth for Iranian IADS. Iran have at least two if not three Ghadir OTH radars with range of 1.100 km and 1 Sepher OTH radar with range of 3.000 km and they cover 360o. They cover whole Arabia and Middle East, Egypt, east Mediterranean Sea, Southeast Europe, part of Russia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Indian Ocean. There is no stealth for OTH radar. They see them normaly as any other plane. Having more of them in different locations also mean, that they could exactly locate any stealth plane by triangulation and vector fighters or air defense on them. Inside Iran, they have quite heavy radar network with different radars, including VHF radar to detect stealth as well as visual observation posts to detect them visualy.

    Iran/US tensions - Page 14 13940410

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    Ghadir OTH radar.

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    Optical observation post.
    medo
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    Post  medo on Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:18 pm



    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:00 am

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Manum_Babloo/status/1142481612585799688

    At least one guy in the US has a brain Laughing .
    crod
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    Post  crod on Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:40 am

    medo wrote:

    Iran/US tensions - Page 14 13940410


    Surely those great big structures would be amongst the first to be destroyed though?
    medo
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    Post  medo on Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:23 am

    crod wrote:
    medo wrote:

    Iran/US tensions - Page 14 13940410


    Surely those great big structures would be amongst the first to be destroyed though?

    They are deeper inside Iran and well protected.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:51 am

    crod wrote:
    medo wrote:

    Iran/US tensions - Page 14 13940410


    Surely those great big structures would be amongst the first to be destroyed though?

    So I'm guessing you don't understand the purpose of OTH radars?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:22 pm

    Normally the problem is where to place your air defence systems... there are so many likely or possible targets of attack... and only a limited number of air defence systems to cover all those targets.

    But with this sort of system the key would be to protect it rather well because it will be certain to be one target... likely the first target... and then try to make your other air defence forces... including aircraft as mobile and as flexible as possible.

    While it is working you will get warning of attacks before they happen and you can move forces and prepare to defend before the attacks occur.... without it you are like an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff hoping to save what you can from the wreckage.

    Comms centres and HQs as well as airfields and suspected ballistic missile sites will be high priorities but initially they will want to minimise the number of people killed even if just for PR to sell this conflict.

    Of course they wont care how many actually die... it is all about appearance rather than any actual care for human lives... Iranian or American.
    crod
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    Post  crod on Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:26 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    crod wrote:
    medo wrote:


    Surely those great big structures would be amongst the first to be destroyed though?

    So I'm guessing you don't understand the purpose of OTH radars?

    Yeah sure I do, but it being a prize asset I’d envisage a huge amount of ordnance been thrown at to such an extent all the early warning wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference because there quite frankly wouldn’t be enough missile batteries to protect it. After all, only one needs to slip to through and direct hit for to be useless for the remainder of the conflict.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:54 pm

    crod wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    crod wrote:
    medo wrote:


    Surely those great big structures would be amongst the first to be destroyed though?

    So I'm guessing you don't understand the purpose of OTH radars?

    Yeah sure I do, but it being a prize asset I’d envisage a huge amount of ordnance been thrown at to such an extent all the early warning wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference because there quite frankly wouldn’t be enough missile batteries to protect it. After all, only one needs to slip to through and direct hit for to be useless for the remainder of the conflict.

    The range of the new surveillance extends well beyond the S-300 strike distance of 200 kilometres, and covers US drone and aircraft bases on the Arabian peninsula, as well as US warships in (and under) the Persian Gulf and off the Gulf of Oman. Early warning of US air and naval-launched attacks has now been cut below the old 4 to 6-minute Iranian threshold. Counter-firing by the Iranian armed forces has been automated from attack warning and target location.

    Helmer: Russia Has Bolstered Iran’s Air Defenses With Technical Advisers

    Under 4-6 minutes, with subsonic cruise missiles? What about ECM? Autobaza made a mockery of the RQ-170, you don't think it couldn't do the same for the far less sophisticated Tomohawk cruise missiles, which is only designed for one time use? The interesting thing about Autobaza is that it works passively without exposing itself.
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:29 pm

    With this radar, I said , it should be mobile . Like other radar . The towers on wheels or collapsible.  The control room also mobile . Once warning given , tow away to new location in under five minutes . Set up again . They complained that I was talking bullcrap . The cruise by GPS , can not work . And TV guided cruise also difficult . Search area too big .

    The trick to capture their missiles and aircraft in air defence net , is to display false radar location and signal in advance  , and allow passageways  for them to " manoeuvre"  in . Like 007 . Then put real radar in the gaps . Hidden .

    Their attack will be ineffective. All important facility in bunkers . Underground . But civilian facility is vulnerable . Dams and power and communication systems . All civilian . Above ground . They hit Iraq water and telephone .

    Yes in very long symmetric war , they have more resources . But to exhaust Iran defences will take many months or years . By that time , even their dogs will be dying of thirst for oil . So they will " obliterate " . Probably with small tactical nuke . That is why Iran needs detterent too .

    Here is " dalek " Donald  Mc Donald Trump  :  " destroy ....destroy ....kill...kill...choke ...suffocate ...strangulate ...obliterate ....exterminate ....exterminate ....!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mxD-5z_xHBU
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:42 pm

    nomadski wrote:With this radar, I said , it should be mobile . Like other radar . The towers on wheels or collapsible.  The control room also mobile . Once warning given , tow away to new location in under five minutes . Set up again . They complained that I was talking bullcrap . The cruise by GPS , can not work . And TV guided cruise also difficult . Search area too big .

    The trick to capture their missiles and aircraft in air defence net , is to display false radar location and signal in advance  , and allow passageways  for them to " manoeuvre"  in . Like 007 . Then put real radar in the gaps . Hidden .

    Their attack will be ineffective. All important facility in bunkers . Underground . But civilian facility is vulnerable . Dams and power and communication systems . All civilian . Above ground . They hit Iraq water and telephone .

    Yes in very long symmetric war , they have more resources . But to exhaust Iran defences will take many months or years . By that time , even their dogs will be dying of thirst for oil . So they will " obliterate " . Probably with small  tactical nuke . That is why Iran needs detterent too .

    Here is " dalek " Donald  Mc Donald Trump  :  " destroy ....destroy ....kill...kill...choke ...suffocate ...strangulate ...obliterate ....exterminate ....exterminate ....!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mxD-5z_xHBU

    Mobility without concealment is not much of a tactic. In the arid lands of the Middle East the yanquis can track Iranian asset movements. Iran's only option
    is to have SAMs to defend such radar sites and that is actually the proper approach. If you prevent the yanquis from taking out such assets in the first round
    of attack, then their whole air superiority shtick begins to fall apart. They can keep sending rounds of air attacks but will lose too many aircraft. That brings
    up the other all-important detail: Iran's SAMs need to be able to do the job. Instead of selling the S-400 to Turkey, Russia should have sold it to Iran. The
    S-300 is good, but the S-400 is better.
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:25 am


    I am not too sure about these assets being able to be spotted from space , in real time . Since no more spy plane able to fly over , then sattelite only option left . Even if spotted by sattelite , can it give coordinates to cruise , during flight ? So as you said , they need aircraft . And yes they can spot by ground scan radar or visual . But they are also easy prey for the SAM layers , protecting each facility . If Iran ask for S400 then maybe no time to train personnel . They may have to come with the gear .
    ultimatewarrior
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:45 am

    kvs wrote:
    nomadski wrote:With this radar, I said , it should be mobile . Like other radar . The towers on wheels or collapsible.  The control room also mobile . Once warning given , tow away to new location in under five minutes . Set up again . They complained that I was talking bullcrap . The cruise by GPS , can not work . And TV guided cruise also difficult . Search area too big .

    The trick to capture their missiles and aircraft in air defence net , is to display false radar location and signal in advance  , and allow passageways  for them to " manoeuvre"  in . Like 007 . Then put real radar in the gaps . Hidden .

    Their attack will be ineffective. All important facility in bunkers . Underground . But civilian facility is vulnerable . Dams and power and communication systems . All civilian . Above ground . They hit Iraq water and telephone .

    Yes in very long symmetric war , they have more resources . But to exhaust Iran defences will take many months or years . By that time , even their dogs will be dying of thirst for oil . So they will " obliterate " . Probably with small  tactical nuke . That is why Iran needs detterent too .

    Here is " dalek " Donald  Mc Donald Trump  :  " destroy ....destroy ....kill...kill...choke ...suffocate ...strangulate ...obliterate ....exterminate ....exterminate ....!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mxD-5z_xHBU

    Mobility without concealment is not much of a tactic.    In the arid lands of the Middle East the yanquis can track Iranian asset movements.   Iran's only option
    is to have SAMs to defend such radar sites and that is actually the proper approach.    If you prevent the yanquis from taking out such assets in the first round
    of attack, then their whole air superiority shtick begins to fall apart.    They can keep sending rounds of air attacks but will lose too many aircraft.    That brings
    up the other all-important detail: Iran's SAMs need to be able to do the job.    Instead of selling the S-400 to Turkey, Russia should have sold it to Iran.   The
    S-300 is good, but the S-400 is better.  

    It's pretty ridiculous Russia rejected Iran request of S-400 to placate Saudi Arabia. Selling S-400 to Turkey is as big a mistake as selling Kornet to Turkey a few years back. Turkish illegally reversed engineered Kornet missiles are now flooding Syria shooting at Russians. Selling S-400 to Turkey will seriously endanger Russian lives in Syria.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:22 am

    There is a limit to the level of damage Turkey may theoretically impose on Russia before Erdogan gets a call. Ties with Russia today are extensive and deep. Turkey has more in its plate with the Kurds on the North-East and patching up U.S relations + working out the Mediterranean jigzag puzzle than infuriating Russia above a threshold. Idlib is nothing, except their anchor in Syria as a stakeholder. This they want to keep until they get the Kurd issue settled and not before. The Turks simply don't trust the Russians or Syrians to deliver for them . They rightly believe there is a high probability the Russians will strike a deal with the Americans for something they simply could not accept (or should not accept), and Syria would be strong-armed by Russia to concede. Given Russia's history of striking horrible deals - the Turks are right on their instincts in my opinion - specially after conceding 1/3 of Syria to the U.S. In essence, there is no trust there for the Turks - despite the positive developments elsewhere between Russia and the Turks, and the Astana format of talks. If you want a good deal for yourself, never send a Russian to negotiate it. Syrians unfortunately don't have a choice.

    There is a U.N embargo on sales of conventional weaponry to Iran. This should have never passed with Russia's consent. Bringing Iran to the table DID NOT require it. There is also the pov that Russia supplying Iran all kinds of arms can embolden Iran to rush for a nuke, despite whatever objections from Russia after they've bulked up on these arms.

    2 S400 regiments, 40-60 Su-35's/Su-30s, a couple dozen Pansirs, + a few more Tors  and a couple extra Kilo's would make Iran almost impenetrable. You couple those with their already indigenous designs, their ballistic missile force and the fact they hold the Straight of Hormuz already hostage... lol1 lol1

    Good luck to anyone touching that thorny Rose.

    A strong Iran is a good Iran, but not too strong.

    The U.S, Russia and China all strongly agree on one thing - No Nukes. The problem is the U.S is playing for much more than Nukes when it targets Iran and that's where everything comes into conflict.


    Last edited by ATLASCUB on Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:32 am; edited 8 times in total
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:45 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:There is a limit to the level of damage Turkey may theoretically impose on Russia before Erdogan gets a call. Ties with Russia today are extensive and deep. Turkey has more in its plate with the Kurds on the North-East and patching up U.S relations + working out the Mediterranean jigzag puzzle than infuriating Russia above a threshold. Idlib is nothing, except their anchor in Syria as a stakeholder.

    Iran is vastly more vital for Russia's security than Idlib. Iran is the Shi'ite bulwark against the Wahabbi terrorists who run Saudi Arabia and their NATO patrons.
    It is clear that NATO wants to install another Shah in Iran and Russia must prevent this scenario. Having a NATO outpost in the Caspian is not a good thing
    for Russia. They can position their Trojan "ABM" systems (aka nuclear IRBMs) in Iran and penetrate deeper into Russia's interior. This is NATO's wet dream.

    Anyway, Iran has developed its own S-300 variants that ain't too shabby and recently demonstrated that they were immune to US EW attacks. This is why
    Trumpy backed down. No American sock puppet president has ever had a real conscience stopping the slaughter of foreign untermenschen.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:50 am

    kvs wrote:
    ATLASCUB wrote:There is a limit to the level of damage Turkey may theoretically impose on Russia before Erdogan gets a call. Ties with Russia today are extensive and deep. Turkey has more in its plate with the Kurds on the North-East and patching up U.S relations + working out the Mediterranean jigzag puzzle than infuriating Russia above a threshold. Idlib is nothing, except their anchor in Syria as a stakeholder.

    Iran is vastly more vital for Russia's security than Idlib.  Iran is the Shi'ite bulwark against the Wahabbi terrorists who run Saudi Arabia and their NATO patrons.  
    It is clear that NATO wants to install another Shah in Iran and Russia must prevent this scenario.   Having a NATO outpost in the Caspian is not a good thing
    for Russia.   They can position their Trojan "ABM" systems (aka nuclear IRBMs) in Iran and penetrate deeper into Russia's interior.    This is NATO's wet dream.

    Anyway, Iran has developed its own S-300 variants that ain't too shabby and recently demonstrated that they were immune to US EW attacks.   This is why
    Trumpy backed down.   No American sock puppet president has ever had a real conscience stopping the slaughter of foreign untermenschen.  

    According to Patruchev, an ally. Although we don't know how soft or strong he meant that word to be.

    The U.S ability to bully middle of the pack nations with conventional military force is eroding and will continue to erode in this young century. American strategic planners see this clearly. The rise of Eurasia, of China and Russia as great powers, and the relative decline of the U.S and Western Europe are all giving way to this. Not only can these middle of the pack countries equip themselves with world class weaponry by turning to these two patrons, but they can also look to them for economic integration and growth. As such, challenging "U.S interests" aka U.S largesse will become more commonplace all throughout the world.

    Thus it's clear to U.S strategists that the more time passes, countries like Iran, Turkey, Pakistan (and potentially other future states) will get bolder when challenging U.S interests - with little regard to the eroding threat of military attack from the U.S, and U.S economic raiding.

    Which is why the strategy of low yield nukes is coming into play. For the bully, if it's to continue to bully with the same level of effectiveness as it does today, it needs a strong hammer. The American hammer of today is slowly becoming inadequate in handling power hustles - and this will erode as years pass by. American nukes of today are too strong of a tool, only viable against existential threats and peer competitors in a war of extermination. Its conventional force effectiveness is eroding and extremely costly. It needs a solution to bridge the gap between those two. There is, clearly, within the U.S, a group that sees it this way. Enough so that the plans are already in the works. It's a sort of similar strategy to what they used on Japan in WWII. Nuclear blackmail... but with "low yield" nukes just so that it's palatable enough to the world, to submit the foe, and not exterminate millions outright - like current nukes would.

    As these Americans strategists see it, they need to bully with a strong hammer to keep others from challenging the status quo in the middle east and elsewhere. Conventional arms are costly, and sustained conventional offensive operations are too. In a world where resurgent countries like China and Russia exist the U.S simply can't engage in these sort of adventures continually without risking collapse economically, and failure militarily and with it their position as the Top Dog in the world which they have grown accustomed to being ---- not anymore. To them, low yield nukes give them options on the toolkit to handle future power hustles.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:58 am

    Iran should build hundreds of structures that look like OTH radars, and focus not on just defending all those fake sites, but concentrate on attacking the source of the weapons that attack those sites.

    It makes no sense to simply defend defend defend, because as each punch sneaks through and does damage things will only get better for the attacker... they are happy to spend billions on attack weapons that only work when fired in enormous numbers... the military loves to shoot things and it doesn't cost them anything, while the makers earn a living making those things so the more they use the more money they make.

    The US will attack targets in Iran all day and all night for weeks before getting bored, what Iran has to do is make them pay.

    One way is to close the straights for oil traffic, another way is ballistic missile attack against any US assets in the region...

    And of course there are lots of US citizens in the region to target...

    No American sock puppet president has ever had a real conscience stopping the slaughter of foreign untermenschen.

    Exactly... he could care less about 150 Iranians being killed... he is more worried about a repeat of the cruise missile attack on Syria where most were useless and the ones that hit targets were empty and had been for years.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:05 am

    https://vz.ru/world/2019/6/25/984190.print.html

    Bipartisan House Measure Would Block Iran Strike
    Trump: 'We Don't Need Any More Wars'
    Poll Shows Strong Majority of Americans Oppose Attacking Iran
    Trump: I Don't Need Congressional Approval to Attack Iran
    Senate Set to Bypass Iran Fight Amid Growing Tensions
    State Dept Looks to Create Anti-Iran Coalition
    Iran Denies US Cyber-Attacks Had Any Effect
    Trump Sets More Sanctions on Iran, but Potential Targets Are Limited
    Iranians Say Their 'Bones Breaking' Under US Sanctions
    Iran Says It Welcomes Any Defusion of Tensions in Region
    Iran's Media Say New US Sanctions Based on 'Fabricated Excuses'
    Iran's Zarif Says 'B-Team' Wants War, Not Diplomacy, With Tehran
    Iran Uncovers Spy Team at Oil Ministry
    Iran Says Downing of US Drone Was a 'Firm Response', Can Be Repeated
    Iran and the US
    Trump Is Willing to Talk to Iran, Top US Adviser Says
    Trump Calls on Foreign Countries to Protect Their Own Oil Tankers
    US Official: US Building Maritime Security Coalition for Gulf
    Iran Will 'Pay the Price' if Persists With Aggression, Saudi Minister Tells Le Monde
    Israel Will Do 'Everything' to Stop Iran Going Nuclear: Netanyahu
    Britain Warns of Accidental War Between United States and Iran
    Oman Denies Conveying US Message to Iran Over Downed Drone
    Europeans Warn Iran Against Reducing Nuclear Deal Commitments
    International Energy Agency Concerned About Middle East Tensions, Stands Ready to Act

    https://www.antiwar.com/

    I wonder if Russia could deploy some S-400s into the S. Caspian on a barge &/ bring them by An-124s to be operated by their own crews. It's not like they will set up a base like in Syria. That way, they won't violate UN sanctions & will still be helping to defend Iran.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add text)
    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski on Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:36 am

    @ GarryB


    Agree . Visual and radar stealth should be used to hide ground equipment , from AWACS and sattelite observation . As well as keeping equipment mobile . To guard against all GPS weapons .

    Ten or twelve symbolic target in USA , one per major city  ( use ICBM with conventional warhead ) will prove very useful indeed . Do this BEFORE  doing  a nuke test  on TV .
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    Post  kvs on Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:23 pm

    nomadski wrote:@ GarryB


    Agree . Visual and radar stealth should be used to hide ground equipment , from AWACS and sattelite observation . As well as keeping equipment mobile . To guard against all GPS weapons .

    Ten or twelve symbolic target in USA , one per major city  ( use ICBM with conventional warhead ) will prove very useful indeed . Do this BEFORE  doing  a nuke test  on TV .

    Iran does not need to target the US homeland. That is starting WWIII. It needs to sink a couple of US aircraft carriers and the mighty yanquis will
    change their tune. That is if they are still sane. If they go for a full extermination of Iran response, then that is leading to WWIII anyway. In this
    case the joy of total war should be brought to the US. No village in America should be safe from annihilation. These people need to learn the consequences
    of their ignorant actions and that they are not invincible and invulnerable.

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    Post  nomadski on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:45 pm

    I thought  about this problem of targeting  US mainland . Iran can not realistically  target mainland in  any significant  way , bar one . A psychological operation . Of hitting some landmarks.  By conventional weapon . This will have large political results . By mobilizing  public . Against war . If attack is small . And comes after a shock and awe operation against Iran . Then I believe the public in America will come to  " understand " this attack . . As justified revenge .  I tend to agree that , targets in the region should be hit first . But if war continiue and yanks hit civilian targets ( this , they will do )  , then it is justified .


    Last edited by nomadski on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  Regular on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:46 pm

    kvs wrote:
    nomadski wrote:@ GarryB


    Agree . Visual and radar stealth should be used to hide ground equipment , from AWACS and sattelite observation . As well as keeping equipment mobile . To guard against all GPS weapons .

    Ten or twelve symbolic target in USA , one per major city  ( use ICBM with conventional warhead ) will prove very useful indeed . Do this BEFORE  doing  a nuke test  on TV .

    Iran does not need to target the US homeland.   That is starting WWIII.   It needs to sink a couple of US aircraft carriers and the mighty yanquis will
    change their tune.   That is if they are still sane.   If they go for a full extermination of Iran response, then that is leading to WWIII anyway.   In this
    case the joy of total war should be brought to the US.   No village in America should be safe from annihilation.   These people need to learn the consequences
    of their ignorant actions and that they are not invincible and invulnerable.


    I'm ok with mixed race Amerimutts eating nuclear dirt, but Iran is incapable of such retribution. Russia is only nation on earth capable of US annihilation and Russian officials, their kids and Putin himself has more interest in US to harm them.
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:59 pm

    @ Regular

    I was going to reply  to Vann7  , using same logic . Big powers  , have more to lose  by  confrontation  and they tend to avoid it . If their  national interests are not directly threatened  . For this reason , weaker nations that undergo  civil war or invasions by big powers , remain partitioned  into zones . There are too many examples  from history . So Syrians , must unify and liberate their own land . Others will not do it for them . Iranians must defend own land too .
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:08 pm

    Regular wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    nomadski wrote:@ GarryB


    Agree . Visual and radar stealth should be used to hide ground equipment , from AWACS and sattelite observation . As well as keeping equipment mobile . To guard against all GPS weapons .

    Ten or twelve symbolic target in USA , one per major city  ( use ICBM with conventional warhead ) will prove very useful indeed . Do this BEFORE  doing  a nuke test  on TV .

    Iran does not need to target the US homeland.   That is starting WWIII.   It needs to sink a couple of US aircraft carriers and the mighty yanquis will
    change their tune.   That is if they are still sane.   If they go for a full extermination of Iran response, then that is leading to WWIII anyway.   In this
    case the joy of total war should be brought to the US.   No village in America should be safe from annihilation.   These people need to learn the consequences
    of their ignorant actions and that they are not invincible and invulnerable.


    I'm ok with mixed race Amerimutts eating nuclear dirt, but Iran is incapable of such retribution. Russia is only nation on earth capable of US annihilation and Russian officials, their kids and Putin himself has more interest in US to harm them.

    Sounds like your a proponent of racial hygiene, what is this the 1930's?
    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov

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    Iran/US tensions - Page 14 Empty Re: Iran/US tensions

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:17 pm

    So attacking the mainland will start WW3 but Attacking and actually maybe getting lucky and sinking one carrier won't.

    That a riot, you should be a comedian. You'd get millions of people killed with your logic.

    You literally just proposed Pearl Harbor V2.

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