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    What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

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    jhelb
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    What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  jhelb on Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:22 pm

    Manufacturing automation by the use of AI and Robotics is sweeping the US and China. Robots are changing the face of manufacturing

    What can Russian startups do to start Robotic Manufacturing units in Russia ? In other words, those Russian start-ups that intend to use Robotic Manufacturing, how should they proceed? Setting up the units, procuring the required machines etc.
    kvs
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  kvs on Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:27 pm

    jhelb wrote:Manufacturing automation by the use of AI and Robotics is sweeping the US and China. Robots are changing the face of manufacturing

    What can Russian startups do to start Robotic Manufacturing units in Russia ? In other words, those Russian start-ups that intend to use Robotic Manufacturing, how should they proceed? Setting up the units, procuring the required machines etc.

    What is your basis for assuming that robotics is an issue for Russia.

    People need to stop with this hysterical BS. Russia has deployed industrial robots. It does not need to deploy them to the point of
    causing mass unemployment. Full bore automation works only for countries like Japan in the automobile sector since they export
    vastly more than they consume and they could care less about maximizing employment in offshore production facilities. People
    clearly don't understand these details and just drool over "high tech miracles". Who needs inferior humans doing anything, just
    automate 100% of the economy and have 99% of the population die off from lack of money for food and shelter.

    Please demonstrate issues to Russia's GDP and the prosperity of Russians related to industrial automation levels. I know that
    companies think that they can whittle down employment costs to zero. But these companies somehow expect customers to
    buy their profit optimized junk. The vast majority of customers are from the worker 99% and not from the owner 1%. Even Henry
    Ford knew that he had to pay his workers a good wage to generate demand for his product. A century later and people are going
    have to learn this fact all over again.
    jhelb
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  jhelb on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:12 pm

    kvs wrote:What is your basis for assuming that robotics is an issue for Russia. 

    Where is the assumption in my question? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

    All that I asked is how should Russian startups start a business of Robotic Manufacturing.
    miketheterrible
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:54 am

    jhelb wrote:
    kvs wrote:What is your basis for assuming that robotics is an issue for Russia. 

    Where is the assumption in my question? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

    All that I asked is how should Russian startups start a business of Robotic Manufacturing.

    Like every other company, come up with a prototype to seek out investments.

    Automation and machine tooling companies already exist. I believe it was NAPO (Su-34 makers) and Kamaz along with some small companies order custom made machines to help automate production.

    Robotics is a broad term used for manufacturing. Robotics can also mean machines to wrap pallets and or moving food products around to even making it along a line. This all exists in Russia for a long time. Just like it existed in the United States for a long time. It was actually China that is more recently leading to Automation due to average Chinese wages going way higher than they expected and so instead of using their own people as robots, they just use robots.

    Some of course of Russia's automated equipment is imported from Germany and China. Most now are made in Russia either through their own engineering companies and machine tool companies, to screw driver assembly with very slow localization. Actually, Russia is now becoming a huge market for localization and assembly only because after the FOREX drop of the Ruble, Russia became cheaper for countries like even China to move production.

    I guess the biggest automation that is an existing product since the cold war is auto CNC machines. US was much ahead in that area over soviet union as seen from the companies in the 80's and then 90's. But now, Russian brands along with Japanese, German and Chinese brands are assembling or manufacturing as a whole in Russia now, which gives them lots of options.


    Your question is rather broad and very hard to answer. I don't believe any small company is involved in manufacturing automated stuff. It is a very expensive adventure. Engineering companies are small I guess you can say but they do not actually manufacture automation equipment. They design it, they seek out parts and or other companies that can make specialized one time order, and then they assemble it at the factory/manufacturer that ordered it. It is a lucrative business as you only really have to have designers/engineers and people sourcing parts so the overhead is very low for these companies. But due to the nature of the manufacturers being mostly specialized in something very specific, you wont make the equipment en mass. Only ones would be for agriculture organization like the milking stations.
    jhelb
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  jhelb on Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:53 am

    miketheterrible wrote:They design it

    You mean Computer Aided Designing (CAD) ? Or they design the hardware as well.


    miketheterrible wrote:they seek out parts and or other companies that can make specialized one time order,

    Which type of companies make one time order? Are you saying these companies specialize in one time orders ?
    miketheterrible
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:21 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:They design it

    You mean Computer Aided Designing (CAD) ? Or they design the hardware as well.


    miketheterrible wrote:they seek out parts and or other companies that can make specialized one time order,

    Which type of companies make one time order? Are you saying these companies specialize in one time orders ?

    There are companies I had the pleasure of visiting in India for example that does this. Never visited one in other countries but do know of their existence. They are factories that can easily adjust their toolings to make a specific piece. Requires little work but for most part, it's generic. Screws, fittings, bolts, etc. Rest are off the shelf goods.

    When I also say design, it's the whole design process of the device itself like using the computer to do it (CAD). Rarely they design any components unless of they really have to.
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:57 pm

    Design is not about how pretty something looks or if it fits the available space... often in machines there is tension or stress or heat or cold... you can fabricate a metal strut out of anything you like, but if some hick just designed it on a napkin, it might fall to bits when it is being used because materials used were not suitable or the shape of them was not strong enough or durable enough.

    Even Kalashnikov uses C&C machines that are fully computer controlled and could pretty much mill anything you liked, but they will be loaded with the design for the part they mill and that is what they will do all day and all night.
    jhelb
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  jhelb on Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:13 am

    GarryB wrote:Design is not about how pretty something looks or if it fits the available space... often in machines there is tension or stress or heat or cold... you can fabricate a metal strut out of anything you like, but if some hick just designed it on a napkin, it might fall to bits when it is being used because materials used were not suitable or the shape of them was not strong enough or durable enough.

    Even Kalashnikov uses C&C machines that are fully computer controlled and could pretty much mill anything you liked, but they will be loaded with the design for the part they mill and that is what they will do all day and all night.

    Yes, I get that. A well known, profitable company like Kalashnikov can afford to buy all the bells & whistles. I was referring to Russian start-ups.

    I suspect they will face two major issues :

    (1) Securing orders. By far the biggest challenge, especially when you are not a well know brand like Kalashnikov, Sukhoi, Gazprom etc. How will they get hold of customers?

    (2) Funding - for procurement of industrial robots
    miketheterrible
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:53 pm

    If you are building industrial robots, you don't order industrial robots.

    As well, Russian government companies are tasked to order from SME's.  I think last year or year before it was around $4B.  Not really sure on exact numbers.

    Obtaining funding is the hardest part. You either have to get a venture fund which took a massive back seat in recent years since they we're underperforming. Bank business loans are best option but rates are rather high. If the startup has good prospects, then loans can be subsidized. Otherwise, you hope to get money through various funds. Best company to go through would be Rostec.
    jhelb
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  jhelb on Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:50 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:If you are building industrial robots, you don't order industrial robots.

    If you are building industrial robots and you are a start-up you will struggle to find talent, because most of them are working for major companies across Russia. A start-up can't afford such engineers.


    miketheterrible wrote:Obtaining funding is the hardest part.

    No, not in Russia. Do you live in a Western country? Because it's only in those countries that governments don't support start-ups.

    In Russia banks, government will be happy to give you a loan.

    The hardest part is acquiring customers. If you are Rostec, your brand name is enough in Russia, globally. But if you are a start up how do you get the customers?
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    Re: What should Russian start-ups do to start Robotic manufacturing units in Russia ?

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:18 pm

    I am not even sure what your question is anymore. I already replied with what happens.

    Russia isn't short of talent in the scientific field. It actually lacks workers in the field of trades like electricians, millwrights, etc.

    Anyway, the structure is now part of (it is still being worked on) a universal Russian library of industries. Essentially, it is a network that lists available companies, utilities, etc available and what they do. This is how big time state run companies are now contracting small companies for contracts. It really is all about registration of the company. This was started under Medvedev and has been in use for a few years now.

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