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    off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  havok on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:28 pm

    kvs wrote:Money is a myth.   Science involves human brain activity and not currency flux.   Western propaganda has drilled the fiction of "more money equals more know how and tech" into everyone's brain and they repeat it without a second thought.
    Because money worked, works, and will work well into the future. The real myth is the Soviet system that failed and that system still required money.

    kvs wrote:If the aircraft is scanned from below (which is likely if it overpasses enemy territory) the none of the stealth matters for any stealth aricraft.
    This is why you calling others 'morons' is laughable.

    Basic geometry: Angle of deflection equals angle of incidence.

    So in order for any single ground based radar to actually detect any radar low observable body, that body must literally be DIRECTLY overhead, a situation so unlikely that it might as well be planetary alignment. Further, the F-22, F-35, and B-2 can detect any transmission and calculate that angle of deflection and alter course so that it will never be in that ideal situation.

    When I was active duty (F-111E RAF Upper Heyford 77th TFS The Gamblers) we did not have today's avionics and the WSOs can make such calculations on their lapboards.

    kvs wrote: This includes the precious RAM.   No material in the universe acts like a black hole absorbing and not emitting all EM frequencies.   All materials that absorb must emit.
    Bullshit -- the highlighted. You do not know what you are talking about. Emit what?

    Whatever is absorbed, the composite material converts the EM radiation into heat.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/materials-science/radar-absorbing-material
    ...by converting the radar waves to heat.
    And the heat is not something that can be detected by IR sensors. It is just internalized heat in low radiated energy level.

    Deal with it: Russia's 'stealth' projects are failures.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:37 pm

    havok wrote:
    ...by converting the radar waves to heat.
    And the heat is not something that can be detected by IR sensors. It is just internalized heat in low radiated energy level.

    Deal with it: Russia's 'stealth' projects are failures.





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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  Isos on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:41 pm

    This includes the precious RAM. No material in the universe acts like a black hole absorbing and not emitting all EM frequencies

    F-22 absorbs black holes pro US assholes Smile
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:49 pm

    havok wrote:
    kvs wrote:Money is a myth.   Science involves human brain activity and not currency flux.   Western propaganda has drilled the fiction of "more money equals more know how and tech" into everyone's brain and they repeat it without a second thought.
    Because money worked, works, and will work well into the future. The real myth is the Soviet system that failed and that system still required money.

    kvs wrote:If the aircraft is scanned from below (which is likely if it overpasses enemy territory) the none of the stealth matters for any stealth aricraft.
    This is why you calling others 'morons' is laughable.

    Basic geometry: Angle of deflection equals angle of incidence.

    So in order for any single ground based radar to actually detect any radar low observable body, that body must literally be DIRECTLY overhead, a situation so unlikely that it might as well be planetary alignment. Further, the F-22, F-35, and B-2 can detect any transmission and calculate that angle of deflection and alter course so that it will never be in that ideal situation.

    When I was active duty (F-111E RAF Upper Heyford 77th TFS The Gamblers) we did not have today's avionics and the WSOs can make such calculations on their lapboards.

    kvs wrote: This includes the precious RAM.   No material in the universe acts like a black hole absorbing and not emitting all EM frequencies.   All materials that absorb must emit.
    Bullshit -- the highlighted. You do not know what you are talking about. Emit what?

    Whatever is absorbed, the composite material converts the EM radiation into heat.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/materials-science/radar-absorbing-material
    ...by converting the radar waves to heat.
    And the heat is not something that can be detected by IR sensors. It is just internalized heat in low radiated energy level.

    Deal with it: Russia's 'stealth' projects are failures.

    @havok introduce yourself pls here

    http://www.russiadefence.net/f6-member-introductions-and-rules
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  kvs on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:21 am

    Money works, eh?

    Prove it sunshine.

    But hey, what do I care, let NATO Napoleons and Hitlers think invading Russia is a cakewalk because they spent X amount of dollars
    more on pork barrel junk. These losers don't even adjust for PPP before doing comparisons.

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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  havok on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:27 am

    kvs wrote:Money works, eh?

    Prove it sunshine.
    The Soviet Union collapsed -- ignobly and spectacularly. And I was there to contribute my efforts to its demise. Money does work.

    kvs wrote:But hey, what do I care, let NATO Napoleons and Hitlers think invading Russia is a cakewalk because they spent X amount of dollars
    more on pork barrel junk.    These losers don't even adjust for PPP before doing comparisons.
    No one is talking about any 'invasion'.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  kvs on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:37 am

    havok wrote:
    kvs wrote:Money works, eh?

    Prove it sunshine.
    The Soviet Union collapsed -- ignobly and spectacularly. And I was there to contribute my efforts to its demise. Money does work.

    kvs wrote:But hey, what do I care, let NATO Napoleons and Hitlers think invading Russia is a cakewalk because they spent X amount of dollars
    more on pork barrel junk.    These losers don't even adjust for PPP before doing comparisons.
    No one is talking about any 'invasion'.

    F*ck off with your USSR canard bonehead. Your whole theory that science and technology advances are linear functions of money expended
    is simply retarded.

    https://www.inverse.com/article/53191-spacex-starship-raptor-engine-breaks-record

    LOL. American supermen only beat the RD-180 after 20 years. And the RD-180 is just half of the RD-170 which was developed during the
    late 1970s. American supermen refused to believe that the USSR could develop an oxygen rich staged combustion rocket engine even in 1991.
    After all, they had way more money and genetic intellectual superiority over Russian mud hut dwellers.

    You chauvinist pinheads are a total joke.


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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:57 am

    havok wrote:
    kvs wrote:Money works, eh?

    Prove it sunshine.
    The Soviet Union collapsed -- ignobly and spectacularly. And I was there to contribute my efforts to its demise. Money does work.


    Seriously, you were where?like Rambo? tell me more  Im usurious. By writing posts on forums? or on Fritesdom Bacon cough cough portal?  bounce  bounce  bounce


    kvs wrote:
    But hey, what do I care, let NATO Napoleons and Hitlers think invading Russia is a cakewalk because they spent X amount of dollars
    more on pork barrel junk.    These losers don't even adjust for PPP before doing comparisons.
    No one is talking about any 'invasion'.


    nobody? so you've never listened any US propaganda news outlets? wow
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  havok on Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 am

    kvs wrote:Idiot fanbois bleat about round nozzles while ignore the absurd billboard sized rudders on the F-22.    The Su-57 has a vastly smaller side cross section than the US wunderwaffe.
    Wrong.

    There are three rules in designing a low radar observable body:

    - Control of quantity of radiators
    - Control of array of radiators
    - Control of modes of radiation

    The body itself becomes a radiator the moment any EM transmission impacts it. On a complex body like an aircraft, every protrusion like a wing, a fin, an antenna, or even a rivet is a sub-structure and is a radiator.

    The three rules are not so much rules that can be broken but more like guidelines that have DEGREES OF OBEDIENCE to them.

    So regarding rule one -- control of QUANTITY of radiators -- the sphere is the most obedient. That is why the sphere is used as a radar calibration body on Earth and IN SPACE.

    https://www.centurymetalspinning.com/radar-calibration-spheres/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Calibration_Sphere_1
    It is technically the oldest operational spacecraft, but it has no power supply or fuel; it is merely a metal sphere. It has been used for radar calibration since its launch.
    The F-15 have six major protrusions of two wings, two horizontal stabilizers, and two vertical stabilizers.

    The F-16 have seven major protrusions of two wings, two horizontal stabilizers, two ventral fins, and one vertical stabilizers.

    This make the F-16 LESS OBEDIENT to Rule One.

    Rule two -- control of ARRAY of radiators -- is where the F-22 and Su-57 and their vertical stabilizers comes in.

    The word 'array' mean physical relationships among structures.

    In designing a radar low observable body, the corner reflector should be avoided, but if not possible, then the 90 deg reflector MUST BE AVOIDED. Not should, but MUST.

    In maritime safety, the 90 deg corner reflector is a radar enhancer and is used by small boats to appear larger on radars.

    https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Selecting-a-Radar-Reflector

    The vertical stabilizers on the F-22, F-35, and Su-57 forms corner reflectors with the horizontal stabilizers. But not the 90 deg type.

    View the structure like a plate. The only way the larger plate matters is when the radar is looking DIRECTLY at the plate, which is unlikely in flight that any radar will see a vertical stabilizer straight on. Again, basic geometry: Angle of reflection equals to angle of incidence.

    So your comment about the F-22's vertical stabilizers reveals your technical ignorance about this subject.

    Not going to touch rule three since most likely it would go over your head anyway. But I will give you a hint: the sphere and the B-2 are the most obedient to all three rules.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:49 am

    @havoc

    can you tell me why do you call yourself a veteran? did you kill Soviets? or just only in medial space? BTW Vietnam, Korea, Venezuela, Iraq, Afghanistan Syria, were no interventions?

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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  LMFS on Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:40 am

    havok wrote:No one is talking about any 'invasion'.
    True, the game is rather submission and ultimately destruction of the country itself so that its parts can be assimilated and plundered by the West.

    There can not be a complete Western hegemony while Russia stands at the core of Eurasia, holding the majority of the world resources and prime geographical position as an independent civilizational pole capable of self defence. I don't expect you to accept this principle, but your guys are openly calling themselves the exceptional nation, destined to call the shots globally and keen on preventing the rise of any rival power. They planned to nuke the USSR as soon as one month after nuking Japan and kept preparing plan after plan in the same direction in the following years. After wining Cold War they expanded NATO to the East (under orders of George W. Bush to continue war against Russia despite them being officially American "friends") while they looted the country, destroyed their political system and fuelled wars against them. When they thought they had reached end of history they publicly called for full spectrum dominance and then withdrew from ABM treaty, at the same time that they were planning Prompt Global Strike to put a gun directly at the head of any dissenting country and most specially Russia as the only other nuclear superpower capable of restraining their freedom of action. To this day they keep ramping up propaganda and attacks of all kinds that can only lead to a war against Russia. These are the facts against which you can argue what you want, without changing them a single bit.

    Since you have military education I take for granted you understand this effort represents a long standing plan to destroy a geopolitical rival, pure and simple. One goal BTW that has been the same in the West for centuries, due to the simple geopolitical principle stated above. So please don't insult our intelligence and have the honesty of admitting that your country's leadership wants Russia on its knees at any cost. We have heard enough American BS to have patience for some more.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  kvs on Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:05 am

    It is 28 years since the USSR disappeared and these brainwashed from birth f*cks are still yapping about it like they lived through it
    or something. Clearly, they have no argument other than yelling commie at anyone they don't like and who refuses to obey their
    diktat. America has zero say in Russia's national interests. But America tries to extend its judicial domain to all of Russia and
    to allow only itself and its NATO minions to dictate to the world what economic and political system they will have. But even when
    the system is essentially identical and the "wrong" people are elected they give themselves the right to chose grifters like Navalny
    who never got more than 3% in any ballot or opinion poll as the "true" voice of the people.

    This poser claims to be a veteran. Well, f*ck you. I lived through a US installed death squad junta dirty war in a South American
    country during the 1970s. The USSR was a freedom utopia during the 1970s compared to this nightmare. But of course US dominated
    media "analysis" engaged in sophist BS about how these butcher junta regime were "authoritarian" and not "totalitarian" so they
    were so much better. Naturally, these same propagandists told western sheeple that the USSR was just like Orwell's 1984.

    This troll is derailing this thread with his USSR obsession.

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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:40 am

    This havoc guy is funny but moronic. I suggest mods remove him as he holds zero value to this site and details the thread.

    And no, he is no veteran and his "money" didn't cause fall of USSR. Funny enough, USSR had money after collapse as they collapsed from within by corruption. But if he can't figure that out, not my problem. Just shows lack of common Sense which is an oxymoron for Americans in general anyway.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  havok on Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:58 am

    kvs wrote:It is 28 years since the USSR disappeared and these brainwashed from birth f*cks are still yapping about it like they lived through it or something.
    But I did lived thru that era.

    kvs wrote:Clearly, they have no argument other than yelling commie at anyone they don't like and who refuses to obey their diktat.
    Clearly, when it comes to the TECHNICAL issues of this thread, my arguments are far superior than yours. That is enough.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  havok on Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:13 am

    LMFS wrote:So please don't insult our intelligence and have the honesty of admitting that your country's leadership wants Russia on its knees at any cost. We have heard enough American BS to have patience for some more.
    What make you think I do not want Russia to be the lesser power? Is it any different than any past Soviet leader or the current Putin to want US to be the lesser power?

    But enough of the ideological and geopolitical issues for now. This is about Russia's attempts at creating rival low radar observable platforms and they are not going well. The American B-2, F-22, and F-35 are done. Their designs, especially the latest F-35, no matter how modular and flexible maybe, are essentially locked in. The next generation that is so called '6th-gen' are already underway. Well underway.

    You think your L-band or whatever long wavelengths radars will work? I will give y'all a clue as to what WILL defeat those long wavelengths systems: semiconductor manufacturing methods, particularly creating structures at the molecular level.

    Bi-static or backscatter detection? No worky. Low radar observable? Try LOWER radar observability.

    Of course, Russia does not have much of a semiconductor industry so you would not know what I am hinting at.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  Isos on Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:34 am

    The next generation that is so called '6th-gen' are already underway. Well underway.

    They have f-22 and f-35 but still buying improved f-15 ...
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:44 am

    havok wrote:
    But I did lived thru that era.

    ok so you were just a kid raised on Marvell thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup


    Tell me why Us has stopped buying B-2 if it was so good?
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:55 am

    havok wrote:
    But enough of the ideological and geopolitical issues for now. This is about Russia's attempts at creating rival low radar observable platforms and they are not going well. The American B-2, F-22, and F-35 are done. Their designs, especially the latest F-35, no matter how modular and flexible maybe, are essentially locked in. The next generation that is so called '6th-gen' are already underway. Well underway.

    no official statements tho, can you shed bit more light? I've seen only CGIs form 2011.



    H wrote:You think your L-band or whatever long wavelengths radars will work? I will give y'all a clue as to what WILL defeat those long wavelengths systems: semiconductor manufacturing methods, particularly creating structures at the molecular level.

    Bi-static or backscatter detection? No worky. Low radar observable? Try LOWER radar observability.

    why would you think Russian scientists dont know what you say now? if they know, got time what it the problem to find counter measures?

    SO fr F-35 , B-2, F-22 re now will be basis for US systems for 10-15-20 years. Then countermeasures will long be on Russian troops.



    H wrote: Of course, Russia does not have much of a semiconductor industry so you would not know what I am hinting at.
    You're mixing things microprocessors market share and materiel science.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:02 am

    The guy is spewing stuff he has no idea about. Semiconductors don't make you stealthy. Material and shaping does.

    I work with semiconductors. It's my job to know this. He is talking nonsense just to sound smart.

    And yes, Russia has semiconductor manufacturing as well as research. They have fabrication plants. Multiple of them. That doesn't mean shit either.
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:32 am

    In this case I don't see how a 0.1 sqm aircraft would be on equal footing with a 0.001 sqm aircraft in 20 years. Especially when the stealthier aircraft has the more powerful radar.

    The point is that in 20 years time the new radars might operate in 20 widely different frequency ranges with massively more power available with enough computing processing power to track motes of dust in the air in a 1,000km cubic volume... so while America spent 1 trillion dollars making your aircraft 0.001 sq metre plans today and Russia went for 0.1 sq metres for 10 billion dollars today in 20 years time both aircraft are going to be detectable at ranges that make the stealth not critical any more... but of course by then the thing might be energy weapons to defeat those new radars and their powerful computers they need to do what they do... plasma screens... etc etc

    The huge irony is that the west has already been in this situation and the choices made were the opposite... when developing cheaper lighter higher tech fighters in the form of the F-16 and F-18 the US went for simpler lighter designs... making the F-16 a mach 2 only aircraft and the F-18 a mach 1.8 only aircraft meant intakes could be made simple and cheaper to buy and maintain... materials could be made cheaper and lighter and simpler... in real combat super high speed for most aircraft almost never happens... it takes a lot of time for a mach 2.5 fighter to actually accelerate to mach 2.5 and it burns a hell of a lot of fuel... just so you can fly straight and level for a very short period of time and burn off three quarters of your fuel in a few minutes.

    The US decided the extra cost of that half a mach was not worth it and saved money and effort in their designs.

    The Russians went for speed.

    In practical terms I don't think it made a huge difference... the extra speed means on paper it could accelerate to a higher speed and give its missiles extra energy on attack, but in practise I don't think it would be hugely decisive...

    Regarding high stealth standards that renders the aircraft very expensive to buy and to operate however cripples your air power... it becomes too expensive to lose aka Syrian campaign... F-15s and F-16s can hide behind mountains in Lebanon and deliver more weapons at a fraction of the cost it would take to use F-35s to do the same thing...

    It looks like advanced stealth technology requires niche high tech and expensive technologies. The Russians are budget and technologically conscious of their situation.

    The other aspect is that stealth is great for first strike sneak attacks if it actually works... the fact that B-2s train in low level penetration suggests even the US realises it wont... so stand off attacks with hypersonic or stealthy missiles makes sense now and will make sense in 20 years time too no doubt.

    Their plan to continue work on a subsonic PAK-DA for 2030s is still in the early stages. I am not sure how relevant a PAK-DA would be in the 2050s. I think the Russians are simply keeping options on the table.

    The US will likely still have B-52s in service then too... the fact is that strategic cruise missile carriers will deliver their weapons 6-8 hours after the enemy air defences have just been hammered by ICBMs and SLBMs and any ship launched LACMs and any IRBMs within reach, so neither air defence network (Russian or American) is going to look good.... of course the American AD is a bit shaky right now... let alone after being hammered in WWIII.

    F-22 has worse maneuverability then Su-57,

    And its job of knocking down third world countries air forces for oil is secure... it should be able to get that job done as long as they don't have S-400 yet...

    Stealth has become hubris koolaid drunk by western planners.

    When you believe an infomercial is a documentary or the news then it becomes easier to think america is a force for good in the world.

    Recall the "Diplomat" (or some similar named journal which is the platform of the NATO elites) article about how
    stealthy B-2s would fly deep over Russia to guarantee the success of a US first strike. These clowns need brain replacement surgery.

    They couldn't even take out Scuds before they were launched in Iraq... and their range pretty much limited the areas they could be launched from. Full air control, full satellite coverage, lots of allies in support, no super power to stop you... and they didn't stop a single Scud missile launch...

    Because money worked, works, and will work well into the future. The real myth is the Soviet system that failed and that system still required money.

    Sanctioning the world and using the US dollar as a weapon risks the US dollars position as the international currency of choice... getting rid of the ABM treaty allowed the creation of S-400 and S-500, and now hypersonic missiles and all sorts of doomsday devices, and now getting rid of the INF treaty and letting New START expire without renewal... the US is on a self destructive binge...

    This is why you calling others 'morons' is laughable.

    Basic geometry: Angle of deflection equals angle of incidence.

    So in order for any single ground based radar to actually detect any radar low observable body, that body must literally be DIRECTLY overhead, a situation so unlikely that it might as well be planetary alignment. Further, the F-22, F-35, and B-2 can detect any transmission and calculate that angle of deflection and alter course so that it will never be in that ideal situation.

    If the term moron fits... what has any single ground based radar got to do with an IADS like the one over Russia... or even over a Russian army division... or Russian ship.

    If these stealthy planes are invisible and safe... why are they not operating over Syrian air space?

    When I was active duty (F-111E RAF Upper Heyford 77th TFS The Gamblers) we did not have today's avionics and the WSOs can make such calculations on their lapboards.

    And how good were they at making calculations based on L and VHS band radar they could not detect emissions from... or the radars that were not emitting and just listening?

    Bullshit -- the highlighted. You do not know what you are talking about. Emit what?

    Whatever is absorbed, the composite material converts the EM radiation into heat.

    Heat? ....like everything else above absolute zero...

    And the heat is not something that can be detected by IR sensors. It is just internalized heat in low radiated energy level.

    Deal with it: Russia's 'stealth' projects are failures.

    What is your measure of success... 20 B-2s made... or perhaps the F-117 that was pretty much not much more than a twin warhead equipped tomahawk missile... at 1,000 times the price of course, or the 189 F-22s that were made but they are not making any more, or the F-35 with all its problems with talk of a new plane that is an F-22 F-35 hybrid... or the F-15 option...

    Perhaps if Russian stealth projects had cost 1.5 trillion we could agree they were failures, but Russian implimentation of stealth has been considered and cautious... and not excessively expensive.

    Money works, eh?

    Prove it sunshine.

    Of course... America can beat China and Russia and the EU combined... if they can just get a military budget of 2 trillion for next year... no... make that 5 trillion and we can fight corruption too...

    But I did lived thru that era.

    Yeah... still fighting the good fight... imagine a world with them dam commies in charge... I mean look at what they bastards are doing now... defending Syria against head chopping terrorists... who were largely supported by the US... who wanted Syrian oil. Defending the democratically elected of Venezuela against some dick who has never stood for an election and was largely unknown to the majority of the Venezuelan population less than one year ago... but America wants that unelected dick to take power so he can sell oil rights to US companies and be a good little bitch... I mean Maduro was only going to help the poor people in Venezuela with the mineral and energy wealth of the country... imagine if he was allowed to mind his own business... hell people in America might think they should also benefit from the mineral and energy wealth of America and that is simply not acceptable because the 1% don't like to share their multi billion dollar profits with poor people...

    You must be retired by now... how is that military pension.... or are you getting a good view of some trailer park because some family member built up some gambling debts or drug addition... or you need hospital care because they said that aviation fuel is perfectly safe... don't worry about it...



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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  LMFS on Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:54 pm

    havok wrote:What make you think I do not want Russia to be the lesser power? Is it any different than any past Soviet leader or the current Putin to want US to be the lesser power?
    There is a difference between defending your country (legitimate, for the disoriented ones) or even wanting to restrict dangerous unilateralism and wanting to destroy others as US is permanently engaged in doing. But why to lose time explaining to somebody that tries to compare victim and aggressor. You seem to perceive self criticism as defeat so will double down until the bitter end. Not that I care a bit.

    This is about Russia's attempts at creating rival low radar observable platforms and they are not going well.
    You should remember your own lessons and not pontificate about issues you don't know first hand and in depth. And that is the case here, unless you have direct and ample access to Russian VLO technology, which I don't feel inclined to believe.

    The American B-2, F-22, and F-35 are done. Their designs, especially the latest F-35, no matter how modular and flexible maybe, are essentially locked in. The next generation that is so called '6th-gen' are already underway. Well underway.
    I am sure of this, and it does not talk well about the qualities of your 5G planes when you need to rush a replacement instead of developing them further. But please keep investing more real money in your corrupt MIC and buying 6 G fighters @300 million/piece, this will drain your looted wealth even faster than $200 million F-22s did.

    You think your L-band or whatever long wavelengths radars will work? I will give y'all a clue as to what WILL defeat those long wavelengths systems: semiconductor manufacturing methods, particularly creating structures at the molecular level.
    I don't believe L band systems are going to defeat stealth, IMHO they are place in newer fighters for other purposes than as active radar arrays. And that technology you mention was pioneered by China some years ago if I am not wrong (probably researched in East and West alike). But ok, only US can do fancy things I guess, in the end they are exceptional building up trillions debt so fast that even Pentagon cannot keep track of where did they go.

    Bi-static or backscatter detection? No worky. Low radar observable? Try LOWER radar observability.

    Of course, Russia does not have much of a semiconductor industry so you would not know what I am hinting at.
    It is clear you have a very high concept of yourself. Maybe too high actually, given you seem to ignore that Russia does indeed have foundries and a functional semiconductor industry. How would they expect to keep their industrial and military sovereignty otherwise?

    But back on topic, do you have any interesting comment about PAK-DA or is it just about talking big about yourself and the US? Interested in your opinion if you have a honest one. Politization of the thread and trolling are not our preferred occupation here, only tolerated as brief deviations.
    miketheterrible
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:07 pm

    L-Band actually works quite well against stealth especially at higher power output from ground based radar systems. It isn't just the frequency children, its also the total power output. L-Band works well against stealth for obvious reasons and stealth was designed around xband frequencies.

    But you know, I come from a family of radar technicians so what do I know?
    LMFS
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  LMFS on Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:17 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:L-Band actually works quite well against stealth especially at higher power output from ground based radar systems.  It isn't just the frequency children, its also the total power output.  L-Band works well against stealth for obvious reasons and stealth was designed around xband frequencies.

    But you know, I come from a family of radar technicians so what do I know?
    Yeah of course, E-2D for example is publicised as counter stealth based on its L-band radar. I was referring to the small sized L-band apertures in Su-57. But in any case the technology for broad-band stealth will improve the same way detection means in general will improve too.
    GarryB
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:03 am

    Russia is well known for wasting money... of course wing mounted L band AESA one dimensional array radar antennas will be used for locating water... not stealth aircraft... silly... the most important thing for an Su-35 and Su-57 is to find the sea... it is all part of the navigation system... Twisted Evil
    LMFS
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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

    Post  LMFS on Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:01 am

    GarryB wrote:Russia is well known for wasting money... of course wing mounted L band AESA one dimensional array radar antennas will be used for locating water... not stealth aircraft... silly... the most important thing for an Su-35 and Su-57 is to find the sea... it is all part of the navigation system...  Twisted Evil
    They can be used for IFF for picking-up L band links and for EMC, maybe others. Of course, also for active radar detection in L band, but due to the size their power aperture is not going to be very big in any case and that should not be specially good against low RCS targets, despite the different band helping to counter the X-band centered VLO designs.

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    Re: off-topic from pak-da thread

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