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    France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

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    Aristide
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    France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  Aristide on Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:19 pm

    So far France has protected the German - Russian pipeline project against american sanctions and EU intervention.

    The problem is...what has France from this?

    Germany gets cheap gas and russia a lucrative contract.

    It appears France is not very happy about this and now threatens to drop the support and vote in the EU commission against the pipeline.

    With the french veto, the project would be dead.

    France said, we could rethink our decission, if teh contract is changed. So far, Gazprom is supplier of the gas and also controlls the pipeline.

    France demands that this is split and it appears that France also want huge concessions towards french energy corporations.
    PapaDragon
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:57 pm


    I'd say they are extorting Germany

    Russia will be selling gas one way or the other, it's Germans who will lose economic edge once gas prices go up

    Geniuses scraped all their nuclear power plants lol1
    Vladimir79
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:25 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    I'd say they are extorting Germany

    Russia will be selling gas one way or the other, it's Germans who will lose economic edge once gas prices go up

    Geniuses scraped all their nuclear power plants lol1

    Only poor countries can be extorted with gas. Developed nations have homes that run on electricity for heating and appliances.
    Hannibal Barca
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:44 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    I'd say they are extorting Germany

    Russia will be selling gas one way or the other, it's Germans who will lose economic edge once gas prices go up

    Geniuses scraped all their nuclear power plants lol1

    Only poor countries can be extorted with gas.  Developed nations have homes that run on electricity for heating and appliances.  

    Mad
    In the Netherlands 38% of energy consumption goes to heating. Half of this is used by residential buildings. And 89% of Dutch houses have a gas-fired boiler.

    The production of green gas must be scaled up drastically. At this moment a mere 0.2% of Dutch gas is green

    U.S. electricity generation by source:
    Energy source Billion kWh Share of total
    Total - all sources 4,034
    Fossil fuels (total) 2,536 62.9%
    Natural gas 1,296 32.1%
    Coal 1,206 29.9%
    Petroleum (total) 21 0.5%
    Petroleum liquids 12 0.3%
    Petroleum coke 9 0.2%
    Other gases 12 0.3%
    Nuclear 805 20.0%
    Renewables (total) 687 17.0%
    Hydropower 300 7.4%
    Wind 254 6.3%
    Biomass (total) 63 1.6%
    JohninMK
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:17 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Only poor countries can be extorted with gas.  Developed nations have homes that run on electricity for heating and appliances.  
    I don't regard the UK as poor and a developed nation. We have a national gas pipeline network down virtually every street in the country where it makes economic sense. Very few buildings here are heated by electricity, where gas is not available then kerosene or propane is used. This changes slightly with mega insulated houses but there arn't many of them.

    The calculation changes of course in countries with a less dense population where small pipelines make no sense. Where no hydro is available gas is usually the cheapest fuel its just that many can't access it.
    higurashihougi
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:52 am

    The US use quite a number of fossil fuel for heating. Unlike Russia or Europe they don't have an extensive heating system using the heat from thermal power plants.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:18 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    I'd say they are extorting Germany

    Russia will be selling gas one way or the other, it's Germans who will lose economic edge once gas prices go up

    Geniuses scraped all their nuclear power plants lol1

    Only poor countries can be extorted with gas.  Developed nations have homes that run on electricity for heating and appliances.  
    using electricity for heating is very inefficient and costly (and not environmentally friendly at all)

    It may make papartially sense only if you produce a lot of electricity from non fossil burning powerplants.

    The only thing that would make less sense would be charging your electric car with a portable diesel generator.
    GarryB
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am

    Hahahahaha... their french allies kick them in the balls again... germany needs to find Frances weak spot and kick back... perhaps they could declare the leader of the Yellow Jackets to be the real president of France and demand Micron hold elections within the next 8 days or face an invasion... not like they haven't invaded before...
    GarryB
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:59 am

    using electricity for heating is very inefficient and costly (and not environmentally friendly at all)

    It may make papartially sense only if you produce a lot of electricity from non fossil burning powerplants.

    The only thing that would make less sense would be charging your electric car with a portable diesel generator.

    Well actually step one is making sure your houses are properly insulated no matter what form of heating you choose.

    Here in the South Island of New Zealand most houses are electrically heated and power is provided via hydro electric dam, but also over time more and more people are adding wind power and solar power, and of course improving insulation further.
    flamming_python
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:47 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    I'd say they are extorting Germany

    Russia will be selling gas one way or the other, it's Germans who will lose economic edge once gas prices go up

    Geniuses scraped all their nuclear power plants lol1

    Only poor countries can be extorted with gas.  Developed nations have homes that run on electricity for heating and appliances.  

    And how is that electricity generated, pray tell?

    I lived in Britain. All heating monpolized by British Gas; gas-fired boilers in individual homes most often. A lot of their electricity is generated from natural gas too.

    France gets most of its electricity from nuclear power, don't know about their heating. But that combined with a more temperate climate, means they would be less affected than most.

    Urban Russian homes get their heating from centralized boiler stations serving thousands of appartments simultaneously - a more efficient arrangement than the British one and a neccessary one given the harsh and long winters. If you go to any Russian city you'll see them - these huge buildings with multiple very tall pipes churning out steam all winter-round. Adding to that, a huge amount of Russia's electricity is generated from natural gas too.

    And you're forgetting about the role of natural gas in heavy industry, which is in fact huge and key to countries such as Germany.
    Aristide
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  Aristide on Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:04 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... their french allies kick them in the balls again... germany needs to find Frances weak spot and kick back... perhaps they could declare the leader of the Yellow Jackets to be the real president of France and demand Micron hold elections within the next 8 days or face an invasion... not like they haven't invaded before...

    As usual you are wrong. Germany and France made an agreement today. The one who has to pay is Russia. Gazprom buildsnthe pipeline but wont control it.
    Vladimir79
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:04 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    I don't regard the UK as poor and a developed nation. We have a national gas pipeline network down virtually every street in the country where it makes economic sense. Very few buildings here are heated by electricity, where gas is not available then kerosene or propane is used. This changes slightly with mega insulated houses but there arn't many of them.

    The calculation changes of course in countries with a less dense population where small pipelines make no sense. Where no hydro is available gas is usually the cheapest fuel its just that many can't access it.

    Like you say the homes have not been updated with insulation so they are just wasting energy. When those decrepit gas lines explode it is like a tactile nuke going off. A modern building has every aspect of energy efficiency built into it for reducing power consumption. There is no reason the world shouldn't be running on nuclear power until a stable fusion reaction is discovered.
    PapaDragon
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:25 am

    Aristide wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... their french allies kick them in the balls again... germany needs to find Frances weak spot and kick back... perhaps they could declare the leader of the Yellow Jackets to be the real president of France and demand Micron hold elections within the next 8 days or face an invasion... not like they haven't invaded before...

    As usual you are wrong. Germany and France made an agreement today. The one who has to pay is Russia. Gazprom buildsnthe pipeline but wont control it.



    Wrong Razz

    https://www.rt.com/business/450983-france-germany-nord-stream2/

    ...According to a copy of a draft obtained by AFP, the two EU countries agreed on Friday to ensure oversight will come from the “territory and territorial sea of the member state where the first interconnection point is located.”

    The draft text replaced the older wording stating the EU rules on gas imports will be applied by “the territory of the member states” and/or the “territorial sea of the member states.”...


    Germans are in charge (naturally, being primary customers) while France and EU can go suck a lemon (and when I say lemon I mean something else entirely)

    Russia sells gas, Germany buys and uses gas, the Ukraine can rot.

    Did you really think that Krauts will let you have a say in their economic dominance on the continent?
    Aristide
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    Re: France extorts Russia over Nordstream II

    Post  Aristide on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:53 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Aristide wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Hahahahaha... their french allies kick them in the balls again... germany needs to find Frances weak spot and kick back... perhaps they could declare the leader of the Yellow Jackets to be the real president of France and demand Micron hold elections within the next 8 days or face an invasion... not like they haven't invaded before...

    As usual you are wrong. Germany and France made an agreement today. The one who has to pay is Russia. Gazprom buildsnthe pipeline but wont control it.



    Wrong Razz

    https://www.rt.com/business/450983-france-germany-nord-stream2/

    ...According to a copy of a draft obtained by AFP, the two EU countries agreed on Friday to ensure oversight will come from the “territory and territorial sea of the member state where the first interconnection point is located.”

    The draft text replaced the older wording stating the EU rules on gas imports will be applied by “the territory of the member states” and/or the “territorial sea of the member states.”...


    Germans are in charge (naturally, being primary customers) while France and EU can go suck a lemon (and when I say lemon I mean something else entirely)

    Russia sells gas, Germany buys and uses gas, the Ukraine can rot.

    Did you really think that Krauts will let you have a say in their economic dominance on the continent?

    Russia pays the pipeline and loses control over it.

    Since the Krauts are led by a weak women, yes we do own them. Merkel usually does as we tell her.

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