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    Syrian War: News #19

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:03 am

    The round from Tank travels at say 1 km per second. The ATGW say 250 m / sec. So it takes the ATGW some twenty seconds to reach 5 km. And Tank round takes 5 sec to reach launcher. So if Tank can quickly detect launch then fire quickly. It can destroy launcher every time. Before ATGW reaches it. To do this some sensors and fast targeting are needed. Tank round to be fired within 10 seconds. Firing ATGW, at closer ranges, makes this more difficult for Tank. Firing Tank round at greater distances makes this easier for Tank round. Are there any sensors on the market that can be adapted. From aircraft perhaps? A Mig 29 type sensor, but rotating like radar? Alternatively use 30 mm Air frag round, put a few in path of incoming.

    Actually the target is hard to tell but I suspect the round fired would probably either be a HE FRAG or a HEAT round, which both leave the gun barrel at about the same speed... between 850 and 920 metres per second, but slow down as soon as they leave the muzzle. Average flight speed to a target 5km away could be 500-600m/s.

    An anti armour sabot round would leave the muzzle at about 1.8km/s and be still travelling over 1km/s after a few seconds of flight but it would also only punch a rather small hole in heavy armour.

    The thing is that even a tank firing a HE round from 5km is pretty hard to notice... a flash and then a pall of smoke and little indication which way it is going... and then boom.

    GLATGMs are supersonic and powered in flight so speeds of 300-350m/s are more accurate, so even they will hit you before you hear it being fired and the launch signature of a GLATGM is tiny and very hard to spot.
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    Post  nomadski on Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:39 pm

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/e96c/dc3195e83e442b5e8b9b5ff67058c444b17c.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwic_YWPg9jjAhXYSRUIHSdpDIIQFjAMegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw0HZhjhDeiP7V7IjkOMf7do

    Agree. Some incoming ATGW, may be very fast hypersonic. Giving short detection time. So since solution is not yet there. Must find simple solution. At 5 km, a good decoy will attract same hits. Cost of decoy small. They go in advance of tanks. Small electric vehicle carries inflatable dummy. Ammunition soon exhausted. Or use laser blinders across target field, by accompanying robot vehicles or laser pen on oscillating flexible rod, stationary. But electrics buried. Resist attack. Hundreds. . Blinding lasers can be on, 24 / 7. UAV with power cable to ground, can hover and send out blinding multi - directional laser, while changing position to avoid being hit.  All advancing Tanks to have Bulldozer blades, to dig in, fire frag rounds, indirect fire, long range, they fight infantry not other Tanks . What other simple way can you think?
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:07 am

    Well the obvious problem is that you will have friendly troops operating all around your vehicles too, which means blinding lasers could be counter productive.

    Depending upon the position there are a few issues and things you can do... something like a tank is valuable enough to spend real money protecting, but you can do simple stuff too.

    A chain or wire fence or structure erected around a tank every time it stops could help with ATGMs without blocking its view.... on a modern battlefield the thermal sights of a tank give it an excellent advantage over enemy forces day or night, but it can't see everything all the time.

    APS systems have active radar systems that detect incoming threats... normally missiles at ranges of 50-100m or so for last ditch defensive measures... smoke or chaff or flares or combinations, but they should only be used when actually under attack as they obscure the tanks view as well as the missiles.

    I rather suspect a good defence would be optical posts looking for threats with good communications, but at the end of the day some sort of active defence of positions and vehicles is the best option as well as engaging those that are launching the attacks rather than just reacting to the weapons they fire.

    If you don't destroy the ATGM launchers then they can just keep launching attacks and are bound to get hits occasionally.

    Some sort of fast acting laser system that detects the IR signature of a launch of an ATGM that can locate the launcher and direct a serious laser beam at the optics of the launcher and perhaps be used to direct vehicle mounted fire power in the area on to the launcher location would be most useful.

    Talk of MMW radar and thermal imaging systems on the tethered UAV for the Armata tank would be interesting...the thermal sensor to detect the launch and track the missile with the MMW radar being used to identify the launcher and calculate the coordinates for an immediate artillery strike on its location or UCAV orbiting over head could release a 10kg-50kg guided bomb based on the coordinates of the target for a near instant response to the attack.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:50 am

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    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:34 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:Tiger forces got BTR-82A IFV and Vodnik APC from Russia

    https://twitter.com/Zola_200/status/1154025623053950978

    Good place to offload the Vodniks, albeit the Syrians can probably suffice with BTR-80As, BTR-82As are needed for our own forces.

    We can also leave the Ivecos for the Syrians when we pull out.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:58 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:Tiger forces got BTR-82A IFV and Vodnik APC from Russia

    https://twitter.com/Zola_200/status/1154025623053950978
    ......

    We can also leave the Ivecos for the Syrians when we pull out.


    You got too many Ivecos to just dump them, besides they are decent machines

    If Russia really wants to dump them somewhere they can sell them to us on discount

    You get rid of them and make some money in the process (unlike with Syria) and we get vehicles that we manufacture spare parts for already

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:55 pm

    Syria getting for another push attempt, I see after the first failed one.

    Let's see if they learned from it or not.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:39 pm

    Zala drones in action in Hama. Key to retaking Tel Malah and Jubayn.

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:39 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Syria getting for another push attempt, I see after the first failed one.

    Let's see if they learned from it or not.

    Relax man. Idlib is Russia's live training ground. LIVE training. It don't get much better than this.

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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:49 am

    nomadski wrote:US forces will have no bases in Iraq. Supply routes for SDF weapons can be cut. Killing two birds with one stone.

    https://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13980505000979

    Turkey can help, provide equipment. Join Iran and Iraq. To bring security. Do this first. Lack of weapons means separatists become toothless. No need to attack Northern Syria and possible confrontation with yank. Just stop arms shipments.

    @Isos

    The round from Tank travels at say 1 km per second. The ATGW say 250 m / sec. So it takes the ATGW some twenty seconds to reach 5 km. And Tank round takes 5 sec to reach launcher. So if Tank can quickly detect launch then fire quickly. It can destroy launcher every time. Before ATGW reaches it. To do this some sensors and fast targeting are needed. Tank round to be fired within 10 seconds. Firing ATGW, at closer ranges, makes this more difficult for Tank. Firing Tank round at greater distances makes this easier for Tank round. Are there any sensors on the market that can be adapted. From aircraft perhaps? A Mig 29 type sensor, but rotating like radar? Alternatively use 30 mm Air frag round, put a few in path of incoming.

    The interesting thing about using a tank Round , is that the shell will hit first ,and the sound of the tank firing will come 4 seconds later . so it will take them by surprise..
    much more than if it was a Predator drone attack..
    And if Russia deploy some descent amount of artillery and t-90 tanks.. Then American and British forces and their terrorist are going to get owned pretty bad and over run.. the only thing that stop Russia for over running Alqaeda position is Putin not wanting to break relations with Erdogan in Turkey and provoke them into a war.. Putin is playing the take your time game.. Eventually American forces will need to Go , and ERdogan will not be President forever.. one bullet on erdogan ,can reverse completely in just 1 week ,Turkey policies in Syria.. Russia in the other hand will not go from Syria ever ,as long a single terrorist from Alqaeda remains in IDLIB.

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    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:16 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Syria getting for another push attempt, I see after the first failed one.

    Let's see if they learned from it or not.

    I think the slow learner here it is you..

    Because the terrorist don't have air defenses , or a way to protect from Russia airforce..
    RUssia can bomb and grind with impunity the Alqaeda NATO fighters in IDLIB.. 24 hours a day every day.. so in those videos.. Russia killed a very big number of terrorist.. have to be in the hundreds.. not mentioning the seriously injured..

    So if Russia airforce can kill 100 terrorist every week , this is a very conservative number ..if Russia was being lazy and too relaxed without any hurry, thats about 5,200 terrorist a year.and 10,400 in two.. and thats more than 40,000 goat fuckers less in the planet . They will not want to live in such a hell ,that Russia can grind them day and night and destroy any building they build ,much faster than it took them to build it.. and to know that their Greater iDLIB project will never work ,with Russia there..  Cool
    and that they know that neither Turkey ,neither Americans or UK can protect them from Russia airforce.


    On top of that they losing territory little by little..every month ,in important zones.. Russia airforce can make their lives miserable... even for a terrorist standard.. it will ruin their lives and they will simply leave
    Syria.. And such defeat.. will make Islamic rebels think twice , before invading any nation
    if they see a chance of Russia , moving there ,creating a base and bombing them again, as they doing in Syria..

    This is the real objective of Russia ,and they are doing a decent job at it..that is to send a strong message to NATO and their Alqaeda allies ,that they will never win ,ever in any place ,they attempt to conquer ,that Russia have interest.  And the second Message is that NATO dreams ,of replicating the Afgan war , or even less . of creating a huge army of hundreds of thousands of Jihadist (as they did in Syria-IRAk ) up to a million terrorist army
    will not work.. that Russia will wipe them easily..  and the more closer is the fight from Russia main land ,the more easier .the more resources Russia will have to bomb them..
    By now.. Russia understand very well ,that Syria was only a testing ground , for NATO ,for a much Bigger WAR they were planning to do , against Russia.. and it did not went well...for NATO.. a total failure.. for NATO.. if we take into account.. that Russia from the start... its main objective was to defeat NATO backed terrorist and it wasn't to help Syria
    to recover 100% of its territory.. Russia even pushed Assad to negotiate with the Kurds , peace for territory.. But Alqaeda will never have peace in Syria.. but bombs over their heads.   and neither Erdogan or US Military will have a way to stop Russia airforce from Bombing Alqaeda in IDLIB.   If Russia wanted it..  it could end the fight in IDLIB in minutes
    with a tactical nuke.. wipe out all the terrorist.. and send the few survivors in the run..

    But for Russia is better to grind them , and let them regroup in IDLIB , better to fight all of them in one place.. than in over Syria..  Cool

    And As a bonus , Russia is using the Syrian war to test their weapons ,and train all their pilots that they rotate every 3-6 months in the Syrian war.. So the monumental gains for Russia ,in training ,fighting NATO armed terrorist will have no price.. in benefits for Russia.

    And IRAN and Syria (And IRAQ that also have fighters in Syria ) will learn A LOT from this war too , an invaluable experience IRAQ will later use to kick US from their own land ,armed with Russia ,CHINA and Iranian weapons..

    It looks now that US is negotiating to setup new airdefenses in IDLIB ,in Turkey controlled
    zones .. in control of the terrorist.. but if they ever use those missiles against Russia airforce will be bombed to hell.. It will be impossible for Turkey to explain ,why they allow terrorist to host air defenses to shoot down Russian planes.. and Russia airforce will simply destroy any radar base in IDLIB or air defense .. before they go operational.

    US ,UK and more than anyone ISRAEL will be the biggest LOSER in the Syrian war.. by their hostile actions , they are helping 3 nations to learn how to fight them ,how to counter them.. If i was Putin , and will negotiate a big base in Egypt.. a country with 100 million citizens.. and Russia train them to become the most powerful force in the entire Muslin World.. to use Egypt as the spear of Russia in middle east against Israel.. and later nuclear reactor ,and final step is give nukes to Egypt.. that will be a check mate for  Israel.. a nuclear armed egypt.. in a big country with 100 millions ,it will be the sum of all fears.. for US and Israel plans to dominate in the middle east.


    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:47 pm

    Also, the PMU has Iranian hardliners in it, you think a "Senior official" who serves in that force has any power?. Please, he is just someone running his mouth it happens a lot.

    Don't make me laugh. That guy's word is worthless.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:46 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:The SDF isn't an ally of Russia, that funny to think.

    They are friendly to Assad yeah only because he is right next to them.

    Tell me where in areas we have under our control are Russians? nowhere, SDF isn't ALLOWED to meet with any SAA or Russian forces without US advisors there.

    If you think the SDF is an Ally of Russia that is 100 percent bogus thinking, we own parts of Syria now and the SDF long as they do what we ask. They can do what they want providing it doesn't conflict our interests. Which is a good deal for them, the only way the SDF will become Russia ally is IF we leave Syria for good but that ain't happening not for at least 20 something years.

    Sorry buddy but we are the masters of this game always have been it's kinda our thing.

    You wanted Assad dead at the beggining and since Russians are there you can't do shit.even your "punishement" strikes are made in desert again empty building.

    Many time kurdes and SDF removed your troops because you suck at protecting them.

    Now there is like 0 arab in the middle east that trust you. You bombed all the sides.

    For the middle east, US are a chewing gum stuck on there shoes. Nothing more.

    Assad lived that is true we failed there thats really the only true thing you said here, we still own a good portion of the country and you know made him Lose a good amount of it to the Turks.

    Oh really educate me buddy on when the kurds EVER gave us an order, they never have so that's a lie, man are you that butt hurt over it you acted so irrationally.

    0 Arabs that trust us? HA. That statement is so wrong, Lol. Sure some don't.

    Chewing Gum huh. Right, you have a very oddly selective memory with history.

    This reply didn't contain any valid facts, just someone typing based on how they feel. Don't waste my time with such feeble BS.

    Idlib is going back to Assad. It's only a matter of time. You can keep eastern Syria. You keep it. You pay for it. Let's see how much it's going to cost American taxpayers keeping eastern Syria running. Oh, and don't even think about selling that oil. The only countries bordering eastern Syria are Turkey and Iraq. Both of which isn't importing a drop of oil from eastern Syria.
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    Post  starman on Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:59 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    US ,UK and more than anyone ISRAEL will be the biggest LOSER in the Syrian war.. by their hostile actions ,  they are helping 3 nations to learn how to fight them ,how to counter them..


    True, Syria, Russia etc have been exposed to up to date Israeli weapons and tactics, and can plan countermeasures. And the US and Israel won't achieve their political objectives in Syria.
    Still, from an Israeli point of view, the whole mess in Syria since 2011 has been a great boon. One of their greatest old enemies disintegrated into chaos and ruin....It'll be ages before Syria gets back on its feet.


    If i was Putin , and will negotiate a big base in Egypt.. a country with 100 million citizens.. and Russia train them to become the most powerful force in the entire Muslin World.. to use Egypt as the spear of Russia in middle east against Israel..

    I think that's essentially what will happen over the next 10-20 years. Still, Egypt can scarcely afford to arm itself well enough to match Israel. It'll need help from oil rich states.

    and later nuclear reactor ,and final step is give nukes to Egypt.. that will be a check mate for  Israel.. a nuclear armed egypt.. in a big country with 100 millions ,it will be the sum of all fears.. for US and Israel plans to dominate in the middle east.

    I doubt Russia will give nukes to Egypt, though some might eventually be smuggled in from say, Pakistan.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:02 pm

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:12 pm

    SeigSoloyvov is 500 on Pakistani defense forum. An Israeli Jew from former USSR. Big Russian and Muslim hater. Ignore that man.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:28 pm

    ultimatewarrior wrote:SeigSoloyvov is 500 on Pakistani defense forum. An Israeli Jew from former USSR. Big Russian and Muslim hater. Ignore that man.

    I am not on any Pakistani defense forum. Nor am I Isreali or Jewish. I do not hate any group of people simply because of their genes and I never lived in the USSR.

    I do hate people IF they do something to make me hate them but hating someone because of their race isn't how I roll.

    Can I get a mod here, this guy just crossed a line.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:51 pm

    Attacking Zakah defense line



    Last edited by ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:51 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ultimatewarrior wrote:SeigSoloyvov is 500 on Pakistani defense forum. An Israeli Jew from former USSR. Big Russian and Muslim hater. Ignore that man.

    I am not on any Pakistani defense forum. Nor am I Isreali or Jewish. I do not hate any group of people simply because of their genes and I never lived in the USSR.

    I do hate people IF they do something to make me hate them but hating someone because of their race isn't how I roll.

    Can I get a mod here, this guy just crossed a line.

    Sorry man. Mistook you for someone else.
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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:53 pm

    Attacking Lataminah defense line

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:54 pm

    Attacking Kafr Zita defense line

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:55 pm

    Attacking Lataminah defense line

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:56 pm

    Attacking Lataminah defense line

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    Post  ultimatewarrior on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:57 pm

    Attacking Kafr Zita defense line

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    Post  nero on Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:49 pm

    Tal Malah and Jibeen were surrendered pretty much without a fight. The videos shown by ANNA pretty much hint at it being abandoned before the attack. Though it is clear that the militants suffered heavy casualties as there are bodies lying all around.

    They lost over 100 men taking these towns. Likely more than 100 trying to keep these towns (from airstrikes).

    Past 3-4 videos showing aerial bombardment (ones that got filmed) show huge amounts of terrorist vehicles getting blown up, while they are trying to mass for an offensive or counter-offensive. Each video shows at least 30-40 dead terrorists from bombs.

    On the other hand, recent SAA losses? ~20 in Kobani and a dozen or two from mortair/sniper fire on the Al Zakah fronts.

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