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    Why France is the land where the sun never setteles

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:34 pm

    That's pointless. GDP PPP measures cost of goods within a country.  Russians purchase Russian and even foreign goods within Russia in Rubles, not Yuan's or USD. This is basic knowledge.  So if you decide to travel, yeah, exchange rates matter. If you are within Russia building goods in Russia, it doesn't.  I can't believe we are even debating this as you are clearly wrong as everyone else is pointing out.

    You don't use foreign currencies in Russia to buy goods. For goodness sakes, Russia uses Rubles in every transaction to buy Russian fighter jets, tanks, technology, etc.  Since they are not importing weapons, this whole debate is useless.

    Yes, new aircraft. So:
    ~98 Su-35
    ~116 Su-30SM
    ~20 Su-30M2
    ~124 Su-34

    Sure sounds like a lot to me. And they are still obtaining more. And guess what? These jets are made in Russia. So PPP is calculated. Because you know, they purchase in Rubles for local produced goods.

    Shall I post the meaning of PPP again and explain it? Only morons used GDP nominal to rate a countries production and economy.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:39 pm

    Isos wrote:

    Compare Russia from 2018 to russia in 2000.

    Putin did great job. His goal was military reequipment but making better life for russians. Real plans for requipment started in 2014-2016 with boreis. And they are going very well. Not as fast as western production or chinese but they are very good.

    Su-57 is something that only US can develop a counterpart to. Yassens M are deadly as shit. And t-14 are better than anything in the west.

    Of course they lack money but when you start 21st century bankrupt and western making sanctions against you and you are still the top leader because you are the only one opposing US then it's a successful mission for Putin.

    If you want faster reequipment, pay more taxes. dunno

    If Su-57 is so great then why are we deferring it for more Su-35s? Why did India withdraw from the programme? I remember when I really started to get pissed off watching the French launch M51s without a single hitch in the testing and then watching our Bulava spiraling down causing light shows in Norway. If we do get something finally finished it is 10 years behind delivery date. Most of the time it just gets cancelled for lack of funds. The Navy is what is really pissing me off. It is a bunch of corvettes with no capital ships and the carrier can't even be repaired. If you want to be a Super Power you must have a strong blue water navy.

    Western sanctions didn't effect us in the Soviet days. The fact that is does now is because the semi-conductor industry in this country has been left to shit. I remember when I had my first Elektronica PC made in Russia, it was like we were destined to be the technology powerhouse of the world. Things didn't go the way I thought.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:42 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Compare Russia from 2018 to russia in 2000.

    Putin did great job. His goal was military reequipment but making better life for russians. Real plans for requipment started in 2014-2016 with boreis. And they are going very well. Not as fast as western production or chinese but they are very good.

    Su-57 is something that only US can develop a counterpart to. Yassens M are deadly as shit. And t-14 are better than anything in the west.

    Of course they lack money but when you start 21st century bankrupt and western making sanctions against you and you are still the top leader because you are the only one opposing US then it's a successful mission for Putin.

    If you want faster reequipment, pay more taxes. dunno

    If Su-57 is so great then why are we deferring it for more Su-35s?  Why did India withdraw from the programme?  I remember when I really started to get pissed off watching the French launch M51s without a single hitch in the testing and then watching our Bulava spiraling down causing light shows in Norway. If we do get something finally finished it is 10 years behind delivery date.  Most of the time it just gets cancelled for lack of funds.  The Navy is what is really pissing me off.  It is a bunch of corvettes with no capital ships and the carrier can't even be repaired.  If you want to be a Super Power you must have a strong blue water navy.  

    Western sanctions didn't effect us in the Soviet days.  The fact that is does now is because the semi-conductor industry in this country has been left to shit. I remember when I had my first Elektronica PC made in Russia, it was like we were destined to be the technology powerhouse of the world.  Things didn't go the way I thought.  

    Did you feel the same when Russia launched Sineva no problem? Bulava was different. Comparing it is ridiculous.
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    Post  kvs on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:43 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:I don't know what you can buy with PPP money.  Who prints that?  Does it come out of the Monopoly box?

    Please do some reading on the subject before making such ludicrous statements.   You haven't been to Russia in the last 20 years
    have you.   It is a long time since the "wooden ruble" BS mattered.    Russians get paid in rubles and pay for goods and services in
    rubles.   This is not the 1990s when Yeltsin's voodoo monetarist economics lead to barter and the use of dollars.    In St. Petersburg
    and Moscow you no longer find the 3rd world kiosks around every corner that trade in dollars.    If you shop for food or TVs you
    pay in rubles.

    Anyone who does not understand the concept of PPP lacks even a basic education.   There are no universal prices.   Local prices
    can only be evaluated in local currencies.   Trying to laugh off the PPP as not being money is breathtakingly inane.  The PPP is
    an economy wide normalization (in the mathematical sense) of prices allowing for apples to apples comparisons.   If the
    exchange rate drops as happened in late 2014 by 50%, that does not imply that the GDP dropped by 50%.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:45 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:I don't know what you can buy with PPP money.  Who prints that?  Does it come out of the Monopoly box?

    Please do some reading on the subject before making such ludicrous statements.   You haven't been to Russia in the last 20 years
    have you.   It is a long time since the "wooden ruble" BS mattered.    Russians get paid in rubles and pay for goods and services in
    rubles.   This is not the 1990s when Yeltsin's voodoo monetarist economics lead to barter and the use of dollars.    In St. Petersburg
    and Moscow you no longer find the 3rd world kiosks around every corner that trade in dollars.    If you shop for food or TVs you
    pay in rubles.

    Anyone who does not understand the concept of PPP lacks even a basic education.   There are no universal prices.   Local prices
    can only be evaluated in local currencies.   Trying to laugh off the PPP as not being money is breathtakingly inane.  The PPP is
    an economy wide normalization (in the mathematical sense) of prices allowing for apples to apples comparisons.   If the
    exchange rate drops as happened in late 2014 by 50%, that does not imply that the GDP dropped by 50%.

    I already went through that with him. So did others. He thinks nominally matters within a country and it's development because....well I don't know. Basic economics dictate that isn't the case and it's even mentioned by professionals as I quoted earlier. But he thinks otherwise. Everyone is wrong. But him. Apparently.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:46 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:

    Did you feel the same when Russia launched Sineva no problem? Bulava was different.  Comparing it is ridiculous.

    Sineva is liquid fueled and obsolete.  Bulava is solid fueled and superior which is why the MoD bent over backwards to get it completed.


    Last edited by Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:50 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:

    Did you feel the same when Russia launched Sineva no problem? Bulava was different.  Comparing it is ridiculous.

    Sineva is liquid fueled and obsolete.  Bulava is solid fueled and superior.  

    And also made from a company that never made SLBMs before. Missile is a missile and Sineva as with Liner are fine as is and great SLBM's. Yeah, Bulava is more advanced. With it comes with challenges. Which it shares quasi ballistic flight like Topol. Does M51?
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    Post  kvs on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:59 pm

    bolshevik345 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:I know what it is and it means nothing.  You can't buy anything with fake believe money.  If you want to live a Western lifestyle in Russia it cost the same or more than it does in the West.  If you want to live a poverty lifestyle you can live by PPP.  It is what poor people rely on to make them feel better about their poverty.


    Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Russian economy, or even Russia as a whole? Because, given that your claim condescendingly ridicules the concept of PPP more than an average western neoliberal propagandist, I severely doubt that.

    I have relatives in Ukraine and Russia (the two halves of my family) and I can compare the facts they give me to my life in Canada.
    All of the claims, explicit and implicit about how poor Russia is are utter BS. And my Russian family does not live in Moscow but on
    the Volga. So the BS claim that Moscow is an exception does not fly. "Western lifestyle" is a propaganda slogan aimed at the ignorant.
    The actual "western lifestyle" involves most of the paycheck going to pay for the mortgage/rent and the car payments. It does not
    involve living in a mansion but in some overpriced apartment/condo. Note the bait and switch of claiming the European housing standards
    are the same as the USA and Canada. Only in the USA and Canada does a large fraction of the population live in houses. In Europe
    and most of the developed old world, the norm is apartment units. Just like in Russia.

    And in Toronto we have the absurd situation of people not being able to afford the houses they live in. Thanks to a speculative bubble
    the average detached house price in Toronto is 1.1 million Canadian dollars. But the average family income in Toronto is $70,000 dollars.
    Also, the actual food inflation I see is over 7% per year. So both housing and food inflation is through the roof and the 2% CPI touted
    by shills and saps means precisely nothing.

    I know for a fact that the nominal income of my relatives in dollars has no relevance for their actual standard of living. Even the PPP is
    skewed low by being focused of consumer commodities and not the whole economy. The task of comparing tens of thousands of prices
    without detailed records is too big. There is not whole GDP audit done anywhere. Instead there are estimates. The consumer sector
    PPP factor does not apply to the military-industrial sector.
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    Post  bolshevik345 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:05 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Isos wrote:

    Compare Russia from 2018 to russia in 2000.

    Putin did great job. His goal was military reequipment but making better life for russians. Real plans for requipment started in 2014-2016 with boreis. And they are going very well. Not as fast as western production or chinese but they are very good.

    Su-57 is something that only US can develop a counterpart to. Yassens M are deadly as shit. And t-14 are better than anything in the west.

    Of course they lack money but when you start 21st century bankrupt and western making sanctions against you and you are still the top leader because you are the only one opposing US then it's a successful mission for Putin.

    If you want faster reequipment, pay more taxes. dunno

    If Su-57 is so great then why are we deferring it for more Su-35s?  Why did India withdraw from the programme?  I remember when I really started to get pissed off watching the French launch M51s without a single hitch in the testing and then watching our Bulava spiraling down causing light shows in Norway. If we do get something finally finished it is 10 years behind delivery date.  Most of the time it just gets cancelled for lack of funds.  The Navy is what is really pissing me off.  It is a bunch of corvettes with no capital ships and the carrier can't even be repaired.  If you want to be a Super Power you must have a strong blue water navy.  

    Western sanctions didn't effect us in the Soviet days.  The fact that is does now is because the semi-conductor industry in this country has been left to shit. I remember when I had my first Elektronica PC made in Russia, it was like we were destined to be the technology powerhouse of the world.  Things didn't go the way I thought.  

    How many times has it been repeated here that india never was in the Su-57 program?
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:08 am

    [quote="kvs"]
    bolshevik345 wrote:

    I have relatives in Ukraine and Russia (the two halves of my family) and I can compare the facts they give me to my life in Canada.
    All of the claims, explicit and implicit about how poor Russia is are utter BS.    And my Russian family does not live in Moscow but on
    the Volga.   So the BS claim that Moscow is an exception does not fly.   "Western lifestyle" is a propaganda slogan aimed at the ignorant.
    The actual "western lifestyle" involves most of the paycheck going to pay for the mortgage/rent and the car payments.   It does not
    involve living in a mansion but in some overpriced apartment/condo.   Note the bait and switch of claiming the European housing standards
    are the same as the USA and Canada.   Only in the USA and Canada does a large fraction of the population live in houses.   In Europe
    and most of the developed old world, the norm is apartment units.   Just like in Russia.    

    And in Toronto we have the absurd situation of people not being able to afford the houses they live in.   Thanks to a speculative bubble
    the average detached house price in Toronto is 1.1 million Canadian dollars.   But  the average family income in Toronto is $70,000 dollars.
    Also, the actual food inflation I see is over 7% per year.    So both housing and food inflation is through the roof and the 2% CPI touted
    by shills and saps means precisely nothing.

    I know for a fact that the nominal income of my relatives in dollars has no relevance for their actual standard of living.   Even the PPP is
    skewed low by being focused of consumer commodities and not the whole economy.   The task of comparing tens of thousands of prices
    without detailed records is too big.   There is not whole GDP audit done anywhere.   Instead there are estimates.   The consumer sector
    PPP factor does not apply to the military-industrial sector.  

    Do you send any money to your relatives? I send my pensioner mother a €1000 a month so she doesn't live in poverty. When the state that is supposed to take care of your loved ones fails you and you have to work your ass off to do what the government promised to do, then maybe you can tell me something.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:18 am

    Sounds like your mom is over spending. Cause pensioners pension is indexed and has been for last two years to meet inflation.  But good on you taking care of her. Everyone wants a comfy good life for their loved ones.

    BTW, as you may not know, our pension isn't indexed here. My coworker has now 5 years left till he gets his pension. In Calgary
    Guess how much? $800 a month. That doesn't cover even rent or his mortgage.  Guess he is screwed?

    As for Su-57, India handed ~$200M for the FGFA program. Which they bailed out of. Not PAK FA.  Su-57 was financed at home.  It is now curtailed because after tests in Syria, it wasn't much better than Su-35 capabilities. It was essentially a Su-35 with VLO and AESA rather while costing double.  So they more or less going back to drawing board. Su-35 is much cheaper and about as effective. Plus the one major part of PAK FA, which helps define it....isn't even ready yet. Type 30 engines. It won't be ready for another year or two.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:30 am

    I knew that expat communities were cultural fossils reflecting the period when they emigrated. But this is just ridiculous. Russian
    IC production is nothing as primitive as it was in the 1980s. Stop pulling outdated information and passing it off as relevant for today.
    We are dealing here with someone who can't be bothered to update their information, now 30 years out of date about Russia.
    That is why he sounds like a neoliberal.

    https://www.rbth.com/science_and_tech/2016/08/16/the-rebirth-of-russias-microelectronics-industry_621421

    http://www.mikron.ru/en/technology/

    http://www.cnews.ru/news/top/v_rossii_vypushheny_pervye_65nm_mikroshemy

    https://ktoshik.livejournal.com/188623.html

    Since we have a France adulation fest in this thread, why not compare Russia's microchip capability compared to France.
    What's that I hear, France subcontracts to Taiwanese fabrication plants? Oh my, when Russia does it, that proves that
    Russia is inferior to France.

    Even AMD is going fabless since fabs are too expensive and companies like TSMC offer the needed services for a competitive
    price.

    http://www.fabtech.org/news/_a/official_amd_goes_fabless/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STMicroelectronics

    The smallest lithography that STM does is 65 nm.

    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:30 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Sounds like your mom is over spending. Cause pensioners pension is indexed and has been for last two years to meet inflation.  But good on you taking care of her. Everyone wants a comfy good life for their loved ones.

    BTW, as you may not know, our pension isn't indexed here. My coworker has now 5 years left till he gets his pension. In Calgary
    Guess how much? $800 a month. That doesn't cover even rent or his mortgage.  Guess he is screwed?

    My mother's pension is 15,000 roubles... tell me how she is supposed to live off of that? Indexes don't mean shit when they don't meet the cost of living.

    As for Su-57, India handed ~$200M for the FGFA program. Which they bailed out of. Not PAK FA.  Su-57 was financed at home.  It is now curtailed because after tests in Syria, it wasn't much better than Su-35 capabilities. It was essentially a Su-35 with VLO and AESA rather while costing double.  So they more or less going back to drawing board. Su-35 is much cheaper and about as effective.  Plus the one major part of PAK FA, which helps define it....isn't even ready yet. Type 30 engines.  It won't be ready for another year or two.

    India handed $295 million, when they inspected the status of the programme they saw bolts sticking out of the aircraft, undeveloped subsystems and an underpowered engine so they bailed. Who can blame them?
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    Post  kvs on Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:03 am

    https://summit.news/2019/04/10/france-police-inadvertently-tear-gas-screaming-children-during-yellow-vest-protest/

    France is so great....
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:20 am

    kvs wrote:

    The smallest lithography that STM does is 65 nm.  


    STM introduced 28nm FDSOI in 2012.  They developed 14nm FDSOI which was bought by GlobalFoundaries.  Your information is outdated.

    I knew that expat communities were cultural fossils reflecting the period when they emigrated. But this is just ridiculous. Russian
    IC production is nothing as primitive as it was in the 1980s. Stop pulling outdated information and passing it off as relevant for today.
    We are dealing here with someone who can't be bothered to update their information, now 30 years out of date about Russia.
    That is why he sounds like a neoliberal.

    If you want to live in some la la land of Russia covered in candy canes and Ak-47s where life is great is your fantasy. It isn't the reality.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:45 am

    kvs wrote:https://summit.news/2019/04/10/france-police-inadvertently-tear-gas-screaming-children-during-yellow-vest-protest/

    France is so great....

    A bunch a spoiled children who have no respect for how good they have it. Let them live on a Russian pension for a month, they will be begging to go back.
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    Post  bolshevik345 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:05 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Sounds like your mom is over spending. Cause pensioners pension is indexed and has been for last two years to meet inflation.  But good on you taking care of her. Everyone wants a comfy good life for their loved ones.

    BTW, as you may not know, our pension isn't indexed here. My coworker has now 5 years left till he gets his pension. In Calgary
    Guess how much? $800 a month. That doesn't cover even rent or his mortgage.  Guess he is screwed?

    My mother's pension is 15,000 roubles... tell me how she is supposed to live off of that?  Indexes don't mean shit when they don't meet the cost of living.  

    As for Su-57, India handed ~$200M for the FGFA program. Which they bailed out of. Not PAK FA.  Su-57 was financed at home.  It is now curtailed because after tests in Syria, it wasn't much better than Su-35 capabilities. It was essentially a Su-35 with VLO and AESA rather while costing double.  So they more or less going back to drawing board. Su-35 is much cheaper and about as effective.  Plus the one major part of PAK FA, which helps define it....isn't even ready yet. Type 30 engines.  It won't be ready for another year or two.

    India handed $295 million, when they inspected the status of the programme they saw bolts sticking out of the aircraft, undeveloped subsystems and an underpowered engine so they bailed.  Who can blame them?  
    You are discrediting yourself when referencing indian yellow press and crude western propaganda.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:24 am

    bolshevik345 wrote:
    You are discrediting yourself when referencing indian yellow press and crude western propaganda.

    We aren't buying it and neither is India... proof is in the results, or lack thereof.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:29 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Sounds like your mom is over spending. Cause pensioners pension is indexed and has been for last two years to meet inflation.  But good on you taking care of her. Everyone wants a comfy good life for their loved ones.

    BTW, as you may not know, our pension isn't indexed here. My coworker has now 5 years left till he gets his pension. In Calgary
    Guess how much? $800 a month. That doesn't cover even rent or his mortgage.  Guess he is screwed?

    My mother's pension is 15,000 roubles... tell me how she is supposed to live off of that?  Indexes don't mean shit when they don't meet the cost of living.  

    As for Su-57, India handed ~$200M for the FGFA program. Which they bailed out of. Not PAK FA.  Su-57 was financed at home.  It is now curtailed because after tests in Syria, it wasn't much better than Su-35 capabilities. It was essentially a Su-35 with VLO and AESA rather while costing double.  So they more or less going back to drawing board. Su-35 is much cheaper and about as effective.  Plus the one major part of PAK FA, which helps define it....isn't even ready yet. Type 30 engines.  It won't be ready for another year or two.

    India handed $295 million, when they inspected the status of the programme they saw bolts sticking out of the aircraft, undeveloped subsystems and an underpowered engine so they bailed.  Who can blame them?  

    First off, they saw a Su-57 prototype early model. Second, it was obvious it was an early build since the next follow up ones didn't have same issue by even photo evidence provided on this very forums.  India is a useless state. Try going there and find out yourself.

    Even their media states they may just buy Su-57 as is when it's ready for development.  If you seriously think a Su-57 will have more bolts sticking out of it (when we know it doesn't from later models) vs Su-30 and Su-35, you are horribly mistaken.

    India on the other hand especially under Modi has moved closer to US. Example was giving US greenlight to use it's airspace for US military. Which in turn destroyed India's soverignty.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:58 am

    The white man's guilt is a very real thing in liberal countries. The voters feel obligated to save the world.
    Most of that aid has political strings attached, & is used to meddle/interfere with others' internal & external affairs. Venezuela is the latest example. American sanctions against Iran don't bother the Western liberals even while part of it is under water.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/iran-deadly-floods-highlight-natural-disasters-fund-190410111734247.html
    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/iran-orders-over-60-000-to-evacuate-flood-hit-oil-city-11431484

    China mulls to buy Russia's Su-57 stealth fighter jet
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/china-mulls-to-buy-russias-su-57-stealth-fighter-jet/printarticle/68666095.cms
    https://thediplomat.com/2019/04/russia-to-offer-china-su-57-fifth-generation-stealth-fighter/
    Isos
    Isos

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    Why France is the land where the sun never setteles - Page 11 Empty Re: Why France is the land where the sun never setteles

    Post  Isos on Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:

    If Su-57 is so great then why are we deferring it for more Su-35s?  Why did India withdraw from the programme?  I remember when I really started to get pissed off watching the French launch M51s without a single hitch in the testing and then watching our Bulava spiraling down causing light shows in Norway. If we do get something finally finished it is 10 years behind delivery date.  Most of the time it just gets cancelled for lack of funds.  The Navy is what is really pissing me off.  It is a bunch of corvettes with no capital ships and the carrier can't even be repaired.  If you want to be a Super Power you must have a strong blue water navy.  

    Western sanctions didn't effect us in the Soviet days.  The fact that is does now is because the semi-conductor industry in this country has been left to shit. I remember when I had my first Elektronica PC made in Russia, it was like we were destined to be the technology powerhouse of the world.  Things didn't go the way I thought.  

    Su-57 is too expensive for you. That's the only reason. Well, because they are also still developing it and testing.

    Su-57 > su-35.

    Indians telling someone if their aircraft is worth something  Rolling Eyes  ... they can go buying their Tejas maybe or give another 10 billion for 20 rafales. Weired that you give a fuck at their opinion Shocked

    The truth is that they will come back for that su-57 in less than 2 years because the mini war with pakistan was a total fiasco for them. And china is introducing j-20, j-31 and su-35 (with rumors of more being ordered in the next years).

    Russia couldn't have a blue water navy in the last 20 years because of Eltsin catastrphic era. They needed corvettes to secure their coasts and have kalibr plateforms. Which is very good. Now they are buying more blue water ships. Two new gorshkov to be laid down in the end of April. And Gorshkov-M planed to follow on.

    Carrier is not the piority. Once gas and petrol increase significantly they will secure 3 or 4 billion for its construction. Maybebyou could push a little the situation to increase the prices by making some deals with arab states. Reason could be the annexion of Golan recognized by US.

    M-51 failed also. One almost fell on France. Having failed launches means that you work more on it. Having a prototype that works very well from the first test is weired and makes surprises like those MdCN that didn't work in real operation. If it was M-51 we would have launched 1/3 and will be totally destroyed by Bulavas because kalibrs work fine.

    You would live much better if you spent your money correctly. By you I mean russians in general. Maybe you should stop investing it in UK and bring it back to russia and trust more you economical system.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:07 am

    miketheterrible wrote:

    First off, they saw a Su-57 prototype early model. Second, it was obvious it was an early build since the next follow up ones didn't have same issue by even photo evidence provided on this very forums.  India is a useless state. Try going there and find out yourself.

    Even their media states they may just buy Su-57 as is when it's ready for development.  If you seriously think a Su-57 will have more bolts sticking out of it (when we know it doesn't from later models) vs Su-30 and Su-35, you are horribly mistaken.

    The bolts are still sticking out of it so it obviously hasn't cleared its RCS testing.  They are still working on the engines and the radar so it isn't complete which is why both of us aren't buying it.  Without the Indian cash the money to develop it is going at a snails pace.
    miketheterrible
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    Why France is the land where the sun never setteles - Page 11 Empty Re: Why France is the land where the sun never setteles

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:47 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:

    First off, they saw a Su-57 prototype early model. Second, it was obvious it was an early build since the next follow up ones didn't have same issue by even photo evidence provided on this very forums.  India is a useless state. Try going there and find out yourself.

    Even their media states they may just buy Su-57 as is when it's ready for development.  If you seriously think a Su-57 will have more bolts sticking out of it (when we know it doesn't from later models) vs Su-30 and Su-35, you are horribly mistaken.

    The bolts are still sticking out of it so it obviously hasn't cleared its RCS testing.  They are still working on the engines and the radar so it isn't complete which is why both of us aren't buying it.  Without the Indian cash the money to develop it is going at a snails pace.

    No there are no bolts sticking out anymore. I see rivets but not sticking out (but visible) evidence please. Of model Su-57 number 05 and later.

    As well, radar is fine, no more work is intended for it as the same exact TR modules are used for civilian and military radar as of now.  The N036 is working from what we all have heard and was tested even in Syria. Major thing I noticed though is performance of N036. It doesn't exceed that of Irbis E in nearly all perameters. So if that is the case, they may not be exactly interested in it at current stage so waiting on new GaAS modules or GaN (which in both cases already exist in production by NPO Istok).

    Engines are the only problem from my understanding. Everything else has been cleared.  Maybe the EO subsystem isn't ready?


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
    jhelb
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    Post  jhelb on Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:52 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:A bunch a spoiled children who have no respect for how good they have it.  Let them live on a Russian pension for a month, they will be begging to go back.  

    That's true. Just 15,000 rubles a month is peanuts. But people in western Europe also get a paltry amount as pension.

    Life in Moscow, especially the central part is comparable to Western Europe. And central Moscow itself is larger than any European city.

    Assuming a pensioner shifts from Russia to West, they will face the same problems they are facing in Russia. In fact the job situation in west is only as good or as bad as it is in Russia.
    GarryB
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    Why France is the land where the sun never setteles - Page 11 Empty Re: Why France is the land where the sun never setteles

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:55 am

    NATO is more about containing the possible unification of Europe than it is containing Russia.

    NATO is about US control of the stupid european nations who need to be led... the irony is that the US uses NATO to keep the europeans and Russians apart because together they would be an enormous threat to US hegemony.

    We spend similar levels on defence but the French procurement budget is twice the size and their R&D budget dwarfs ours. We have quantity, they have quality which has a quantity of its own.

    I think you have the wrong end of the stick... it reminds me of discussions I have had with American fan boys claiming the Abrams is a super tank because it is 20 tons heavier than the equivalent Russian tank.

    Spending twice as much on its own is not a good thing, and having a bigger economy doesn't mean anything at all.

    That is like bragging that your watch cost $10,000 but it is no more accurate than a $100 watch.

    China, very much like Russia, has quantity, but not quality.

    Again... I call bullshit... Russia is what the west should aspire to... quality where quality is needed, but simple functionality is the primary focus.

    China has a fleet of aircraft carriers with no deck fighters they trust to fly from them. We have a carrier we can't even repair. France has a nuclear carrier strike group equal to a standard US strike group fit and ready for duty, combat proven time and time again.

    China has never had aircraft carriers before.... it has never had a decent or indecent navy before, so everything is new and they are learning... and good for them. Russia has a carrier but no urgent need to operate world wide at the moment... they also have modern and upgraded aircraft ready to operate from that carrier when it puts to sea. France has a collections of wars and conflicts and broken colonies that needs its constant attention... most are described by the person who started this thread as shitholes with retards as populations enslaved to France... welcome to Frances circus of the damned...

    They also have a portion of their own population in yellow vests demonstrating every weekend for almost 6 months now complaining that their leader is an idiot that does not listen to them.

    The last surviving European empire is France where the sun never sets.

    Even the sun wont turn their back on those backstabbing bastards...

    The whole of the EU would compare to the US, Russia has a hard time at number 12 holding up to France.

    Sorry, I missed the memo... why do you want the US to be censored like america or the EU?

    There are dung beetles rolling around balls of shit by star light I have more respect for than that bunch of conceited censored .

    Ironically NATO is nothing without the US to provide all the things they call force multipliers... the things most EU countries like France don't have, and the things Russia is slowly getting back in to service.

    And what Losos wrote x2... respect to a Frenchman who deserves it. We don't always agree, but I do respect his opinion.

    The EU army will never happen... they need a leader to make decisions and pay for most of the bills and France wont let Germany make the decisions and Germany wont let France make the decisions, and I rather doubt new Europe want to cut off America just like that... they are wide eyed little girls back stage with Elvis Presley... and even though it is the fat sweaty Elvis, they don't care...

    The standard compliment of fighter aircraft for a US CVN is 44 Super Hornets. The CdG carries 30 Rafale F3R and as a more capable aircraft than a Super Hornet, that 30 is equal to to 44 Super Hornets in capability. Actually greater in some aspects but I am willing to call it a draw.

    Yeah, but when the threat was a Backfire bomber with Kh-22M missiles, the solution was an F-14D... now that the threat could include MiG-31 with Kinzhal, those Rafales and Super Hornets had better learn to swim...

    US and French carrier groups are about what they did to Libya... and that simply wont work against Russia or China.

    The Chinese economy can afford it- w/o a stong blue water navy, their interests will not be protected.

    More than that though... it is not enough to have a navy, but you have to know how to use it effectively too... look at Saudi Arabia and the UAE in Yemen for that.

    It is in our interests for Russia to displace EU-China Axis with a temporary Russia-America axis.

    Yeah, Kissenger talked about using Russia and India against the growth of China, just like they used China against the Soviets, but the Russians are not stupid enough to fall for that... they know the US is way more of an enemy than China could ever be.

    It is America and the west that crushes countries and restricts their growth to retain power for themselves... China and Russia have no history of doing that.

    We will use the magic printer to full ability until the end.

    The magic printer only works when everyone uses the dollar for international trade, which you are killing with sanctions and seizing funds.

    Soon the printer will create inflation and you will be using a shopping trolley to carry all your million dollar notes you will need to buy a loaf of bread.

    If Su-57 is so great then why are we deferring it for more Su-35s?

    If the F-22 and F-35 is so great, then why are they talking about new F-15s Su-35 style?

    The reality is that for many jobs stealth might be everything you want and need, but for many other jobs it is irrelevant... expensive and irrelevant.

    Not many car rental companies would survive if their only renting option is a $300K Lamborgini... especially when the insurance bills are included... but you never know, some rich ass hole might hire one occasionally... it is not going to be a big bread winner but you can use it on weekends and rich kids might hire it for big dates or something.

    The Navy is what is really pissing me off. It is a bunch of corvettes with no capital ships and the carrier can't even be repaired. If you want to be a Super Power you must have a strong blue water navy.

    Hang on... when did the Soviet Union actually have a strong navy?

    Their new Corvettes have more main weapon fire power than their destroyers in the 1980s, and the west still has no defence against Onyx, let alone soon to come missiles like Zircon.

    The fact that is does now is because the semi-conductor industry in this country has been left to shit. I remember when I had my first Elektronica PC made in Russia, it was like we were destined to be the technology powerhouse of the world. Things didn't go the way I thought.

    Western sanctions are still your best bet of that coming to be.

    Sineva is liquid fueled and obsolete. Bulava is solid fueled and superior which is why the MoD bent over backwards to get it completed.

    Liquid fuel is generally more powerful and rather cheaper.


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