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    Why France is the land where the sun never setteles

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:15 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Tsavo Lion wrote:They all go into reserves, & periodically called up for training.

    No, now it's India, not China. They still must order some things they can't produce, but if u look back, their current locally produced subs, planes & missiles originated from the old Soviet models sold to them.

    When Putin calls up the reserves most of them don't even show up.  There are so many exemptions it might as well not exist.

    India has not made a major purchase in quite some time.  Most of the planned orders are in limbo while the US has been racking them up.  



    Do you have a link regarding the claim of reserves not showing up?  As well, Rosgvardi are also paramilitary so they would have to take the call if need be.

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    The-thing-next-door wrote:What exact standards are you using? To say the french are in the same class as Russia is truly absurd the fogs are a western puppet nothing more.

    Russia is the last surviving european empire and in terms of firepower and technology is certainly no slouch the only two things lacking are sphere of influence and economy but thoes are more to do with stigma than physical reality and are hardly the ideal foundation of a long lasting empire.

    China is very much like the us they have the money but need to either copy technology or import brains or just straight up import technology and in that case the us gets it from europe China gets it from Russia.

    If you are going to compare Russia you may aswell do it to the whole EU and not just one little prvince.

    France has the 6th largest economy in the world, we have the 12th.  

    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/projected-world-gdp-ranking.php

    We spend similar levels on defence but the French procurement budget is twice the size and their R&D budget dwarfs ours.  We have quantity, they have quality which has a quantity of its own.

    China, very much like Russia, has quantity, but not quality.  China has a fleet of aircraft carriers with no deck fighters they trust to fly from them.  We have a carrier we can't even repair.  France has a nuclear carrier strike group equal to a standard US strike group fit and ready for duty, combat proven time and time again.  

    The last surviving European empire is France where the sun never sets.

    The whole of the EU would compare to the US, Russia has a hard time at number 12 holding up to France.

    Wrong.  Provide evidence.  GDP PPP takes into account here, you need to understand that.  Russias GDP in nominal is useless.  PPP takes into account since Russia produces its own weapons.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

    Russia is 5th to 6th largest in world.  France is 10th.  Russia produces its own weapons, so that means PPP is entirely taken into account.  So Russias budget may be only $40B for defense in Nominal but PPP its over $80B, which is much higher than france.  Russia also has to produce new nuclear weapons. Russia purchases their weapons in Rubles, not in Euro's or USD. Hence why costs dropped along with currency in USD terms in Russia. Su-35 were going for 50M USD before currency drop now 27M USD but in terms of Rubles, cost is roughly the same. This is an example.

    Russian trained forces are also paid quite well compared to other sectors of the economy:

    Shevtsova claimed the average monthly military salary in 2014 was 62,000 rubles, roughly the same as in 2017. She said that was 10 percent more than average pay in Russia’s oil and gas sector, according to RIA Novosti. It also appears to exceed what’s paid to the average worker in defense industries.

    https://russiandefpolicy.blog/tag/military-pay/
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:37 pm

    I don't know what you can buy with PPP money.  Who prints that? Does it come out of the Monopoly box?
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:48 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:I don't know what you can buy with PPP money.  Who prints that?  Does it come out of the Monopoly box?

    Purchasing Power Parity.

    Its rather basic:

    So Russia back in 2013 purchased Su-35 (I think it was 2013) when the RUB/USD was 34/1USD for about 1.5T Rubles.  It came out to roughly ~$55M per aircraft.  Years later, they made a similar order which only cost a bit more (1.6T Rubles) for similar number of jets when the Ruble dropped to roughly to 60/USD which made it about $28M per aircraft.

    Since Russia purchases its own goods within Rubles, it means all costs are associated as such.  Since Russia doesn't buy their military equipment in USD, then that is where Purchasing Power Parity comes from.  In theory, it makes it sound like Russia can buy more than before in USD terms.  BUT that is a false concept.  Much like that they can purchase less due to exchange rate.  But that once again isn't the case.  Since all goods are in domestic prices.  So the only way you can determine anything of the sort is to monitor how much they spent in Rubles for each contract and number of equipment they get in said contract.

    Where prices increased was actually to do more with having to find alternative suppliers and import substitution that ended up increasing in initial price due to low output of said import substitution.

    Reason is this:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp

    Russias GDP didn't drop by half though.  In this chart and all other charts where nominal is accounted for it did.  But officially by any bank it did not.  Reason was because the norm for calculation now is PPP per country rather than Nominal as Russia's GDP collapsed by half over night simply because of the exchange rate to USD.  Which is absolute nonsense since Russians do not pay for goods in USD.  Their official GDP drop was actually only about 2.6% in that time frame.  So in PPP terms they lost about 2.6% but then are gaining it back as of last year to now.

    In turn, that is why France cannot get much for its budget.  Their overall costs are much higher than Russia's, while not having a corresponding budget.  Quality is here or there cause some complain while others praise.  Example is the good ol Famas.  Piece of overpriced shit.  Rafale and Mirage are actually fantastic aircrafts.  Their missiles? So so.  And they too are over priced and hence why they resorted to using concrete bombs in Libya after they ran out of guided munitions in the first place.

    http://statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-gdp-ppp.php


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:51 pm

    I know what it is and it means nothing.  You can't buy anything with fake believe money.  If you want to live a Western lifestyle in Russia it cost the same or more than it does in the West.  If you want to live a poverty lifestyle you can live by PPP. It is what poor people rely on to make them feel better about their poverty.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:54 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:I know what it is and it means nothing.  You can't buy anything with fake believe money.  If you want to live a Western lifestyle in Russia it cost the same or more than it does in the West.  If you want to live a poverty lifestyle you can live by PPP.  It is what poor people rely on to make them feel better about their poverty.

    No, that is not true at all.  This is why World Bank, IMF and others are moving to PPP standard and not nominal.

    Care to provide a reasoning behind it?  Like example of costs of goods?

    So if my example is correct, 1.5T for first order of Su-35 and next order is 1.6T rubles for same amount of jets, then how come all of a sudden it drops?

    And no, prices in Russia are not the same as France.  Cost of living in Moscow is still cheaper than Paris.  Because while wages are much less comparison reason, cost of goods correlate to that too.

    Nominal concept worked in the past when introduced because it compared how well each US state was doing in comparison to each other. Since all US states use USD, it mattered then. It was the only real way to compare each country to each other in the past. After PPP was introduced, things have changed.

    It is my job to know most of this.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:59 pm


    The standard compliment of fighter aircraft for a US CVN is 44 Super Hornets. The CdG carries 30 Rafale F3R and as a more capable aircraft than a Super Hornet, that 30 is equal to to 44 Super Hornets in capability. Actually greater in some aspects but I am willing to call it a draw.

    No its not. They can pack 90 aircraft. A US carrier group will have more missiles and more subs and more EW aircraft. With 3 or 4 prowler in the air good luck using your radar guided missiles. F-18SH is a very good aircraft and they are replacing them with f-35.

    French have no radar against stealth targets and asters are very limited in range. And mostly it would be aster 15. They also can deny the use of gps to french.


    If France needed to conduct the extra 20,000 strikes, they could do it. Comparing what they haven't needed to do isn't the argument of what they can easily do if they want to. Syria is a side operation for them while they deal with their main interests in Africa. Of course they want outside support, even the US begs its allies to pick up their burdens so why wouldn't France? The question is, if France had to do it alone, could they do it? The answer is yes.

    The answer is no. In syria they never tried to attack Assad alone when Obama retracted and in Africa they are still the only one interested by controling them.

    Again, they couldn't do nothing when russia send its troops to Central africa. And won't do much when China start rising its military power there. They are only doing things slowly so to not do them badly like US did all over the world with their military operations.

    The French soldier is the highest equipped in the world to kit at $23k. A US soldier is $17.5k and it only cost $1,500 to kit a PLA soldier. The French have the most modernised army in the world with the implementation of their Scorpion programme taking their SA above all. The French have very high morale which is just as important as anything, they are well fed, well rested and ready for combat. I am not talking about being soft, I am talking about taking care of your troopers. When your paycheck is jack shit you aren't really happy and wanting to quit which is why Russia has such a high turnover in the ranks. When they do not re-up their contract, all of the money spent training them is lost as well as experience. The French retain their experience and skills because it is not such a high turnover rate.

    Simple soldier don't stay very long in France too. Once they are send to fight in afghanistan for nothing they quite.



    The people and their skills are the most important asset of any military. Most of ours are raw recruits who don't even know how to fully operate their equipment until they leave the service. The quality of the French soldier, sailor and airmen is better skilled and trained than ours. Missiles, planes whatever aren't shit if the people don't know what to do with them.

    Again you are wrong. A cruise missile doesn't recquire any skill from operator, only need to put some data in a computer.

    Russian succeeded from Caspian sea to attack in syria.

    French didn't succeed to attack from the mediteranean because MdCN have smaller legs so they needed to come close where russians were.

    It's a proof that russian are more advanced in missile tech.

    Modern weapons recquire less and less human skills. That's why everyone develop drones.


    Lets see, the CEO of MBDA is French with a board that sits in Paris and half of its employees are based in France. Sounds like a good deal to me. You may not be aware of it but there is a big corruption case in our missile industry to the tune of €1.5 billion. Corruption takes its toll.

    Still half outside of france.

    I'm just talking from a technological point of view. French are not the best in that field. And french companies are often sued for corruption.

    They were peacekeepers not expecting to be attacked by Gbagbo so they destroyed his entire air force and stormed his palace sending him to the Hague for war crimes. That is what happens if you fuck with France.

    Most of french bases in africa are as easy destroyable as was this one unfortunatly. And it was done by a single su-25 with ukrainian pilot. Not even an air force.

    It is a dream as long as NATO exists.

    And a nightmare if it happens. Because if you think italians or pols or germans will let a french dictate their militaries what to do, you are only stupid.

    Macron thinks because France is the only one to have independant nuks in europe makes him the natural leader of an european army.

    Germans already want french seat at UN for the EU. Italians hate french. Eastern europeans wants US to protect them and EU money. That's the reality.

    If nato is destroyed, EU will fall apart and you can bet your money Germany will start to invade again and produce its own nuks.
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:00 pm

    The quality of life in Paris is higher than Moscow, you get what you pay for no matter where you are.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:02 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The quality of life in Paris is higher than Moscow, you get what you pay for no matter where you are.

    True to an extent.  Paris is one of the most expensive cities to live in of course.  As you say, you get what you pay for no matter where you are.  But each nation has its own prices.  Not same prices.  That is the difference.

    Advantages of PPP. A main one is that PPP exchange rates are relatively stable over time. By contrast, market rates are more volatile, and using them could produce quite large swings in aggregate measures of growth even when growth rates in individual countries are stable. Another drawback of market-based rates is that they are relevant only for internationally traded goods. Nontraded goods and services tend to be cheaper in low-income than in high-income countries. A haircut in New York is more expensive than in Lima; the price of a taxi ride of the same distance is higher in Paris than in Tunis; and a ticket to a cricket game costs more in London than in Lahore. Indeed, because wages tend to be lower in poorer countries, and services are often relatively labor intensive, the price of a haircut in Lima is likely to be cheaper than in New York even when the cost of making tradable goods, such as machinery, is the same in both countries. Any analysis that fails to take into account these differences in the prices of nontraded goods across countries will underestimate the purchasing power of consumers in emerging market and developing countries and, consequently, their overall welfare. For this reason, PPP is generally regarded as a better measure of overall well-being.

    As for French troops, there is a reason why the Foreign Legion is still heavily used - because regular soldiers are too expensive and they too do not stay long either. Foreign Legion on the other case is a different breed and does give France an advantage of having pretty good quality troops for a much less cost.


    Last edited by miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:04 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:

    True to an extent.  Paris is one of the most expensive cities to live in of course.  As you say, you get what you pay for no matter where you are.  But each nation has its own prices.  Not same prices.  That is the difference.

    Economists like to use the Big Mac index for promoting the fallacy of PPP, but even a Big Mac sources their ingredients from different places. The beef used in a French Big Mac will be of much higher quality than that used in a Chinese Big Mac.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:08 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:

    True to an extent.  Paris is one of the most expensive cities to live in of course.  As you say, you get what you pay for no matter where you are.  But each nation has its own prices.  Not same prices.  That is the difference.

    Economists like to use the Big Mac index for promoting the fallacy of PPP, but even a Big Mac sources their ingredients from different places.  The beef used in a French Big Mac will be of much higher quality than that used in a Chinese Big Mac.  

    Have you ever had a Big Mac from China?  I have.  It tastes like a Big Mac from where I am (Canada).  Also, cost of it was OK (nothing really special as it was pricier than other average food I was able to obtain in Shanghai.  Both big macs from both countries give me the shits).  Big Mac Index is actually pretty smart system.  Yes, quality may be different depending on countries, and countries like India are hard to measure since they got two big Macs with either chickpeas or Chicken.  But fried chicken from KFC in St.Petersburg is about similar quality to one in Canada while one in Canada is better quality than one in USA due to US farming regulations vs Canada's.

    So if we go to initial concept of the conversation, measuring from PPP is best option since price of goods in Russia are based upon Rubles.  If Russia gets Su-35 now and it costs about the same (1.5 - 1.6T Rubles for 60~ aircraft) then nothing has changed.  Quality of the aircraft can always be questioned but so far, Su-35 is rather very high quality while being surprisingly cheap especially compared to the two seater Su-30SM.  Rafale is a very good jet but it isn't worth the extra price either.  hence why even India is facing this backlash.

    Edit: I was wrong on prices.  Initial order for 48 Su-35S was 80B Rubles but that also included some upgraded jets, and an additional $100M USD at the time (2009) for loans to the manufacturer.  Next order for 50 was about 100B rubles (2015).


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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:23 pm

    When Putin calls up the reserves most of them don't even show up. There are so many exemptions it might as well not exist.
    If partial or full mobilization is called, those reserves or most mil. age able bodied men will be put under arms. In a survival situation, nukes will be used, as written in their mil. doctrine.
    India will pay $2B for 500 Russian tanks:
    http://www.ng.ru/news/644710.html?print=Y

    The FN & the RN will soon be dwarfed by the PLAN:
    http://www.russiadefence.net/t5376p325-pla-navy-and-naval-air-force#253366

    The Chinese economy can afford it- w/o a stong blue water navy, their interests will not be protected.


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : add link, text)
    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:56 pm

    Dpn't ever use nominal GDP. It's good for measuring banana republics (like Gulf countries) that produce nothing and need to import everything. For countries with strong internal market PPP works much better.

    For military matters, Russia has, in nominal terms, military budget slightly larger than France, yet it is able to have:
    - 4x larger army
    - thousands of tanks and thousands of armored vehicles (versus France's 300 tanks or so)
    - a large air force with 400+ fighters and a large fleet of strategic bombers
    - a sizeable navy

    And it's able to constantly keep modernizing it and deploy it for a 3+ years long campaign 1000s of kms from it's borders. So Russia effectively possesses 70% of US military might for 10% $
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:58 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Dpn't ever use nominal GDP. It's good for measuring banana republics (like Gulf countries) that produce nothing and need to import everything. For countries with strong internal market PPP works much better.

    For military matters, Russia has, in nominal terms, military budget slightly larger than France, yet it is able to have:
    - 4x larger army
    - thousands of tanks and thousands of armored vehicles (versus France's 300 tanks or so)
    - a large air force with 400+ fighters and a large fleet of strategic bombers
    - a sizeable navy

    And it's able to constantly keep modernizing it and deploy it for a  3+ years long campaign 1000s of kms from it's borders. So Russia effectively possesses 70% of US military might for 10% $

    Add in also Nuclear weapons which are stupidly expensive.  Or overall SRBMs like Iskanders and or hypersonic weapons (which France does not have) like currently Avangard and Kinzhal.

    And yes, Nominal matters less if you are a net exporter than net importer (which Russia is net exporter).

    The idea that money pays for quality is a myth. BMW and Mercedes cost significantly more than a Kia, Toyota or a Hyundai yet those three brands win every year for past 4 years in quality standard here in Canada. Renault doesn't exist here and Fiat (Fix it again Tony) has piss poor standards for being expensive.


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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:57 pm

    The British & French Empires r truncated; they have small overseas possessions, but the Russian & Chinese Empires r bordering on each other, dominate/control Central Asia & Arctic, & don't need to worry about losing any far away islands. Those who control E. Europe, C. Asia & the arctic, control the "World Island" & trade routes (OBOR, NSR) & therefore the World. The Atomflot/VMF/AF controls the Arctic & the PLA/N/AF will control the China Seas, W. Pacific & the Indian Ocean.
    France & UK r marginalized- they can't use Vietnam & current possessions in Indo-Pacific effectively against neither Russia nor China.
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    Post  bolshevik345 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:19 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:I know what it is and it means nothing.  You can't buy anything with fake believe money.  If you want to live a Western lifestyle in Russia it cost the same or more than it does in the West.  If you want to live a poverty lifestyle you can live by PPP.  It is what poor people rely on to make them feel better about their poverty.


    Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Russian economy, or even Russia as a whole? Because, given that your claim condescendingly ridicules the concept of PPP more than an average western neoliberal propagandist, I severely doubt that.
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    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:38 pm

    True, Russia has the capability of a superpower with the budget of French military. The Russian capability is in an entire category of its own when compared to France. It is the only country that can destroy us. Alone, this is enough to consider. I give credit to Vlad for being so self-critical. It simply means they are aiming for even more. This is to be celebrated, considering if he sees room for improvement there are undoubtedly others that see it and with implementation of slow but sure anti-corruption measures, the improvements will be made.

    Personally I believe the US sanctions are coordinated with Russia. There are for sure contacts between the administration and the security council of Russia. It is in our interests for Russia to displace EU-China Axis with a temporary Russia-America axis. With disasters in Boeing, Oil/Gas, Lockheed Martin, we will lose market share undoubtedly. Do you really think we would give a monopoly to airbus? Or European agriculture? We would rather see UAC gain market share, as well we would rather see Rosagro in Venezuela than Euro cheese and ham. Johnson/Johnson and Pfizer are doing well, but we really do not want European pharmaceutics to advance more. That is why Trump announced 11 billion dollar sanctions on Airbus and on European economy.

    They are not implemented yet, but the measures are prepared, we will put tariffs on all Euro products, and the second round I predict will hit their auto producers even harder and their pharmaceutics. It will be aimed at crushing them by taking them down as we fall. Continue to laze targets Mr. Putin, the economic bombs will continue to come, until dollar goes down toilet. Its the only strategy available currently. Without reform possibility and with Basel 3 essentially dissolving the dollars reserve status, we do not have much time. We will use the magic printer to full ability until the end.

    The orange orangutan is most powerful faction now. Outdated neocons are neutered. Bolton will lose his job like every one else. It is the apprentice(Trump Tv show) on steroids. Only liberasts hate Russia, they have the media but nobody even watches those shows in US anymore, if not to laugh at them. So the rapprochement continues via secret communications, and coordinated sanctions with Russia, and unlimited rampage on EU-China. The sanctions ruin only those economies leeching from us, Russia is sovereign, the sanctions only help them grow. We would even like to return Russian eastern europe sphere of influence, but only after orangutan term 2. There is a whole list of concessions we will make at the expense of our EU "allies" and Chinese "rivals" to Russian "partners". We also need arms talks ASAP. We might not be able to do much about our trade turnover, but definitely Russian growth to EU-China levels is within our interests. Free for all is better than being having these behemoths gang up on us. Russia also does not want jr status in EU-China relationship. That much I can tell from Vlads disposition. Also when dollar goes bye bye it would be better for us that there is balance, then have one dominant actor. Russia and America can agree on one thing, we should not be subordinate in relationships with these countries.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:49 pm

    You make good points with having even the same theory of these sanctions actually being coordinated between Russia and US (I mean, it has worked so well in Russia's favor and gave Russia great excuses to push out the fifth column and to start arresting high profile (corrupt) politicians. Issue is though, it's fine to be critical of your own nation, I am vehemently critical of Canada. But outright falsifying info by ignoring indicators like PPP in economics which is highly taught and practiced by professional economists, politics and national branches world wide, is disingenuous.
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    Post  Aristide on Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:42 pm

    I visited Russia for 2 weeks and what i saw was a very poor country. I dont blame russians for it and asusme structural problems.

    As for my own country. France is the only imperial nation worldwide that has land area on almost evry continent.

    We are also the strongest military of Europe with a potent nuclear defense arsenal, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and a capable military.

    In Africa our influence is without ay rivals. France has teh cultural, economical and military dominance on the african continent, that is unrivalled.

    Thats a simple fact and shown again and again.

    France is very good in playing its cards. We stay out of big conflict and let others fight each other, while doing all we can to secure our position.

    The only anomaly is Germany, led by a weak women. Merkel holds Germany far below what it could be. This is sad but the current reality.

    At the moment France has to secure Germany from the worst effects of Merkels politics.

    For example our nuclear power plants have consstantly putting power into the german grid to keep it alive. Merkels "new energy politics" bring the nation on its knees.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:31 pm

    bolshevik345 wrote:

    Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Russian economy, or even Russia as a whole? Because, given that your claim condescendingly ridicules the concept of PPP more than an average western neoliberal propagandist, I severely doubt that.

    PPP doesn't have anything to do with Russia. It is used by Western governments so they could reduce their foreign aid obligations by setting extremely low poverty limits. Anyone that is proud of their PPP is a moron.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:47 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:

    Have you ever had a Big Mac from China?  I have.  It tastes like a Big Mac from where I am (Canada).  Also, cost of it was OK (nothing really special as it was pricier than other average food I was able to obtain in Shanghai.  Both big macs from both countries give me the shits).  Big Mac Index is actually pretty smart system.  Yes, quality may be different depending on countries, and countries like India are hard to measure since they got two big Macs with either chickpeas or Chicken.  But fried chicken from KFC in St.Petersburg is about similar quality to one in Canada while one in Canada is better quality than one in USA due to US farming regulations vs Canada's.

    So if we go to initial concept of the conversation, measuring from PPP is best option since price of goods in Russia are based upon Rubles.  If Russia gets Su-35 now and it costs about the same (1.5 - 1.6T Rubles for 60~ aircraft) then nothing has changed.  Quality of the aircraft can always be questioned but so far, Su-35 is rather very high quality while being surprisingly cheap especially compared to the two seater Su-30SM.  Rafale is a very good jet but it isn't worth the extra price either.  hence why even India is facing this backlash.

    Edit: I was wrong on prices.  Initial order for 48 Su-35S was 80B Rubles but that also included some upgraded jets, and an additional $100M USD at the time (2009) for loans to the manufacturer.  Next order for 50 was about 100B rubles (2015).

    I am not big on McDonalds but I do like KFC. The last one I went to in China was in GZ and the chicken was nothing but bones and fried skin. Where is the meat? I was very sick eating food in China and I got green shits, I never had it before or since.

    Needless to say the quality of food in China is shit. The quality of food in France is much greater no matter where you go. They have higher standards of what they allow to be served. Western fastfood chains in Russia is hit or miss. In the big cities it is what you expect but you also pay more than in the smaller chains. When you are dealing with franchise owners with little corporate oversight you never know what their source is but you can bet it is reflected in the price.

    You go ahead and look at how many "new" aircraft we bought and weed it out from the refurbished aircraft. It is not so many.

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    Post  bolshevik345 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:58 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    bolshevik345 wrote:

    Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Russian economy, or even Russia as a whole? Because, given that your claim condescendingly ridicules the concept of PPP more than an average western neoliberal propagandist, I severely doubt that.

    PPP doesn't have anything to do with Russia.  It is used by Western governments so they could reduce their foreign aid obligations by setting extremely low poverty limits.  Anyone that is proud of their PPP is a moron.  
    What foreign aidobligations? As if foreign aid obligations can be forced upon the west lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 . This is some grade A western exceptionalism youre pushing, "white man's burden" if you will. Its almost if Im reading a Heritage Foundation article.

    If anything nominal GDP is a propaganda tool for western neoliberal economists in order to inflate the economic performance of their countries and influence third world countries to open their country's resources and labor pools to be exploited by western corporations at the expense of worker's rights and geopolitical indpendece under the enticement of having a bigger nominal GDP.


    Nominal GDP is UTTERLY USELESS to measure the power the russian military industry, because the vast majority of transactions involving military equipment happen in Russia, and only in Russia.

    Regarding poverty ,

    Why France is the land where the sun never setteles - Page 10 Povert10

    You're saying that's a really low poverty limit and the exceptional west would follow its "foreign aid obligations" and send money to Russia if it wasn't for those wily "western economists"?

    Needless to say the quality of food in China is shit. The quality of food in France is much greater no matter where you go. They have higher standards of what they allow to be served. Western fastfood chains in Russia is hit or miss. In the big cities it is what you expect but you also pay more than in the smaller chains. When you are dealing with franchise owners with little corporate oversight you never know what their source is but you can bet it is reflected in the price.
    Pirog and blini stands are superior to whatever cholesterol filled western garbage  is peddled in Russia.

    You go ahead and look at how many "new" aircraft we bought and weed it out from the refurbished aircraft. It is not so many.

    Ok lets see:

    100+ Su-34
    56 Su-35
    92+ Su-30MK
    20 Su-30M2

    Compared to

    152 rafales

    So much for a productive france.



    Last edited by bolshevik345 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Vladimir79
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:06 pm

    MiamiMachineShop wrote:True, Russia has the capability of a superpower with the budget of French military. The Russian capability is in an entire category of its own when compared to France. It is the only country that can destroy us. Alone, this is enough to consider. I give credit to Vlad for being so self-critical. It simply means they are aiming for even more. This is to be celebrated, considering if he sees room for improvement there are undoubtedly others that see it and with implementation of slow but sure anti-corruption measures, the improvements will be made.

    If France wanted to destroy you there isn't much you could do about it. Their modernised Terrible class boomers are more stealthy than your old Ohios. I started this board 10 years ago with the full faith that Putin could rearm us into a 21st century Super Power with the development of new weapons at least on par with the French. What I see are so many failures and refurbishment of Soviet era kit it makes me want to puke. There is very little in the French inventory that is of Cold War vintage, most of our inventory is still burdened by the rust. The MIC is still burdened by the corruption and the design bureaus make things that look the same as the last. Until we start putting real money into R&D we are going to be stuck in the same rut.

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    Post  bolshevik345 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:10 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    MiamiMachineShop wrote:True, Russia has the capability of a superpower with the budget of French military. The Russian capability is in an entire category of its own when compared to France. It is the only country that can destroy us. Alone, this is enough to consider. I give credit to Vlad for being so self-critical. It simply means they are aiming for even more. This is to be celebrated, considering if he sees room for improvement there are undoubtedly others that see it and with implementation of slow but sure anti-corruption measures, the improvements will be made.  

    If France wanted to destroy you there isn't much you could do about it.  Their modernised Terrible class boomers are more stealthy than your old Ohios.  I started this board 10 years ago with the full faith that Putin could rearm us into a 21st century Super Power with the development of new weapons at least on par with the French.  What I see are so many failures and refurbishment of Soviet era kit it makes me want to puke.  There is very little in the French inventory that is of Cold War vintage, most of our inventory is still burdened by the rust.  The MIC is still burdened by the corruption and the design bureaus make things that look the same as the last.  Until we start putting real money into R&D we are going to be stuck in the same rut.  

    Even if your statement is true(which its not),"rusty" Russian cold war stuff is still superior technologically to "modern" french gimmicks.
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    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:19 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    MiamiMachineShop wrote:True, Russia has the capability of a superpower with the budget of French military. The Russian capability is in an entire category of its own when compared to France. It is the only country that can destroy us. Alone, this is enough to consider. I give credit to Vlad for being so self-critical. It simply means they are aiming for even more. This is to be celebrated, considering if he sees room for improvement there are undoubtedly others that see it and with implementation of slow but sure anti-corruption measures, the improvements will be made.  

    If France wanted to destroy you there isn't much you could do about it.  Their modernised Terrible class boomers are more stealthy than your old Ohios.  I started this board 10 years ago with the full faith that Putin could rearm us into a 21st century Super Power with the development of new weapons at least on par with the French.  What I see are so many failures and refurbishment of Soviet era kit it makes me want to puke.  There is very little in the French inventory that is of Cold War vintage, most of our inventory is still burdened by the rust.  The MIC is still burdened by the corruption and the design bureaus make things that look the same as the last.  Until we start putting real money into R&D we are going to be stuck in the same rut.  


    Compare Russia from 2018 to russia in 2000.

    Putin did great job. His goal was military reequipment but making better life for russians. Real plans for requipment started in 2014-2016 with boreis. And they are going very well. Not as fast as western production or chinese but they are very good.

    Su-57 is something that only US can develop a counterpart to. Yassens M are deadly as shit. And t-14 are better than anything in the west.

    Of course they lack money but when you start 21st century bankrupt and western making sanctions against you and you are still the top leader because you are the only one opposing US then it's a successful mission for Putin.

    If you want faster reequipment, pay more taxes. dunno
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:20 pm

    bolshevik345 wrote:What foreign aidobligations? As if foreign aid obligations can be forced upon the west lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1 . This is some grade A western exceptionalism youre pushing, "white man's burden" if you will. Its almost if Im reading a Heritage Foundation article.

    If anything nominal GDP is a propaganda tool for western neoliberal economists in order to inflate the economic performance of their countries and influence third world countries to open their country's resources and labor pools to be exploited by western corporations at the expense of worker's rights and geopolitical indpendece under the enticement of having a bigger nominal GDP.

    The white man's guilt is a very real thing in liberal countries. The voters feel obligated to save the world. The election of Trump, movements like Brexit and Yellow Vests is a retaliation to these ideals.


    Nominal GDP is UTTERLY USELESS to measure the power the russian military industry, because the vast majority of transactions involving military equipment happen in Russia, and only in Russia.

    Nominal is the only thing that has real value. If you take your roubles to China and try getting the PPP exchange rate, they will laugh you to the curb.


    Ok lets see:

    100+ Su-34
    56 Su-35
    92+ Su-30MK
    20 Su-30M2

    Compared to

    152 rafales

    So much for a productive france.

    Many of the currently serving Mirage 2000s were made post Cold War so once you add that...

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