Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Share
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:12 am

    AMCXXL wrote:http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=475842


    Approximately 200 Russian Air Force attack aircraft could be upgraded to Su-25SM3
    03/12/2018 9:39:00 AM
    Deliveries of "Grachs" in the newest modification are stipulated by the state program of armament until 2027
         
    Moscow. 12 March. INTERFAX-AVN - The entire fleet of assault aircraft of the Russian Air Force could be upgraded to the Su-25SM3 appearance, an informed source in the aviation industry told Interfax.
    "A sufficiently large number of aircraft (Su-25 and Su-25SM-IF) are planned for the state program of armament until 2027, which need to be modernized, but the relevant contracts have not yet been signed," the spokesman said.
    According to him, at the moment,the need to modernize all the ground-attack planes to the Su-25SM3 appearance is being discussed.

    Currently, the Su-25SM3 is flying tests, the entire complex of which is planned to be completed during 2018.
           "We need to test the work of all the newest systems, confirms whether the aircraft meets the specifications given by the technical assignment." This work will be carried out in the next three months, then combat work will be carried out, "the source said

    As reported, the Su-25SM3 flight tests began in January 2017. In the course of their implementation, the need to refine the software of some aircraft systems was revealed, which was done. The ground-attack aircraft in the newest version received an ultra-precise sighting complex SOLT-25, a new communications complex, an onboard defense complex (VKO) Vitebsk, to protect the aircraft from ground-based missile complexes of the enemy, as well as more accurate means of destruction.
          The development of the modified version of the Su-25 is conducted by the Research and Production Concern "Sukhoi Shturmoviks", direct modernization of the aircraft is carried out at the 121st aircraft repair plant in the Moscow region of Kubinka

    This may mean that not only the airplanes without modernizing, but also the existing Su-25SM and even the two seaters UB's would be elevated to the SM-3 standard in the next years under the program of armaments 2018-2027

    This make sense because the modernization Su-25SM started in 2006 and for the moment Su-25 has not replacement

    If the entire Su-25 fleet is upgraded to standard Su-25SM-3 , the replacement for Su-25 will be for the period 2030-2040

    Likely the priority on modernizations will be given to the following aircrafts (in some cases with different numerical variants, the bolded):

    Strategic Bombers: Tu-160 (all units), Tu-22
    Fighter Interceptors: MiG-25/31
    Fighter Ground Attack: Su-24
    Fighter (FSA and FMR): Su-27/30/33/35 (all units), MiG-29/35
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18633
    Points : 19189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  GarryB on Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:18 am

    There is no way they will upgrade any Tu-22s.

    Tu-22Ms certainly, but that is a different aircraft...
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:09 am


    No is not.
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 1151
    Points : 1151
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  Hole on Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:14 am

    Tu-22



    Tu-22M2



    Tu-22M3


    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:20 am

    All Tu-22. All part of the same technological unit. Like the MiG-25/31. Like the Su-27/30/33/35.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2454
    Points : 2448
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:01 am

    Tu-22 are not even in reserve. You can't modernize them. Unless rebuild all the parts. They are totally dead as russia keeps them outside and don't use them since the 90s.

    Better go with a new design which wouldn't be a bad idea since su-34 can't do the job of a real big bomber and other bombers in RuAF are considered as strategic so they are kept for strategic missions.

    A small tu-160 with much lower rcs, 1 or 2 m2, would be perfect. Kh-50 cruise missile, kh-35 anti ship missile and bombs with svp-24 as main armement. Very simple design with not the newest tech they have but the ones that proved to be reliable and cheap. A clean design with composites and engine already used on su-34.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18633
    Points : 19189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:19 am

    The first aircraft given the Tu-22 designation didn't get off the drawing board and had two wing mounted jet engines... is that part of the family too?

    Will move this Off Topic discussion to a more suitable place over the next few hours.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18633
    Points : 19189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:22 am

    OK Eehnie, in the context of this new thread can we agree that from your list:


    Eehine wrote:Strategic Bombers: Tu-160 (all units), Tu-22
    Fighter Interceptors: MiG-25/31
    Fighter Ground Attack: Su-24
    Fighter (FSA and FMR): Su-27/30/33/35 (all units), MiG-29/35

    There is zero chance that they will upgrade any Tu-22 blinder aircraft... the only Tu-22M aircraft they will bother to upgrade will be the recently built Tu-22M3 models, and that they will be upgraded to the Tu-22M3M version with inflight refuelling and other improved features?
    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 1151
    Points : 1151
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:05 am

    Recently built. Very Happy
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:30 am

    GarryB wrote:OK Eehnie, in the context of this new thread can we agree that from your list:


    Eehine wrote:Strategic Bombers: Tu-160 (all units), Tu-22
    Fighter Interceptors: MiG-25/31
    Fighter Ground Attack: Su-24
    Fighter (FSA and FMR): Su-27/30/33/35 (all units), MiG-29/35

    There is zero chance that they will upgrade any Tu-22 blinder aircraft... the only Tu-22M aircraft they will bother to upgrade will be the recently built Tu-22M3 models, and that they will be upgraded to the Tu-22M3M version with inflight refuelling and other improved features?

    The current upgrade of the Tu-22 is real, exists and is called Tu-22 M3M, and obviously is not an upgrade that can be applied to all the variants of the Tu-22.

    I only said for the Tu-160 that all units would be modernized.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12224
    Points : 12703
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:48 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:OK Eehnie, in the context of this new thread can we agree that from your list:


    Eehine wrote:Strategic Bombers: Tu-160 (all units), Tu-22
    Fighter Interceptors: MiG-25/31
    Fighter Ground Attack: Su-24
    Fighter (FSA and FMR): Su-27/30/33/35 (all units), MiG-29/35

    There is zero chance that they will upgrade any Tu-22 blinder aircraft... the only Tu-22M aircraft they will bother to upgrade will be the recently built Tu-22M3 models, and that they will be upgraded to the Tu-22M3M version with inflight refuelling and other improved features?

    The current upgrade of the Tu-22 is real, exists and is called Tu-22 M3M, and obviously is not an upgrade that can be applied to all the variants of the Tu-22.

    I only said for the Tu-160 that all units would be modernized.

    You are wrong. Tu-23M3M is an upgrade of Tu-22M, which is a different aircraft than the Tu-22. See the photos of these 1. Tu-22M was designated Tu-26 some time.

    It is sth like F-15 and F-15E, that are different aircrafts. No matter they have quite similar designation
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:59 pm

    Every source says the Tu-22M variants are based on earlier variants of the Tu-22.

    The use of the Tu-22 designation for entire the mechanical development is perfectly correct. In this case even is used in an environment where you see the:

    MiG-25/31 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the MiG-25 until the MiG-31.
    Su-27/30/33/35 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the Su-27 until the Su-35.
    MiG-29/35 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the MiG-29 until the MiG-35

    Your problems with that are only your problems.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2454
    Points : 2448
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  Isos on Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:30 pm

    Seriously why are you opening a new thread for his stupid ideas that he keeps telling every two months ?
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 12224
    Points : 12703
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  George1 on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:01 pm

    eehnie wrote:Every source says the Tu-22M variants are based on earlier variants of the Tu-22.

    The use of the Tu-22 designation for entire the mechanical development is perfectly correct. In this case even is used in an environment where you see the:

    MiG-25/31 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the MiG-25 until the MiG-31.
    Su-27/30/33/35 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the Su-27 until the Su-35.
    MiG-29/35 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the MiG-29 until the MiG-35

    Your problems with that are only your problems.

    Tu-22 was retired from Russian Air Force in 1994. How this can be brought back? we talk for a 60s design and production

    Do you see any plans for retired MiG-25 to be modernized to carry Kinzhal or R-37 for example?

    avatar
    Hole

    Posts : 1151
    Points : 1151
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 42
    Location : Merkelland

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  Hole on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:27 pm

    You are contradicting yourself, eehnie. First you use the designation Tu-22 even for the Tu-22M3 but then you make the distinction between Su-27 and Su-35.
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:30 pm

    George1 wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Every source says the Tu-22M variants are based on earlier variants of the Tu-22.

    The use of the Tu-22 designation for entire the mechanical development is perfectly correct. In this case even is used in an environment where you see the:

    MiG-25/31 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the MiG-25 until the MiG-31.
    Su-27/30/33/35 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the Su-27 until the Su-35.
    MiG-29/35 designation for the entire mechanical development from the early variants of the MiG-29 until the MiG-35

    Your problems with that are only your problems.

    Tu-22 was retired from Russian Air Force in 1994. How this can be brought back? we talk for a 60s design and production

    Do you see any plans for retired MiG-25 to be modernized to carry Kinzhal or R-37 for example?


    eehnie wrote:Likely the priority on modernizations will be given to the following aircrafts (in some cases with different numerical variants, the bolded):

    Strategic Bombers: Tu-160 (all units), Tu-22
    Fighter Interceptors: MiG-25/31
    Fighter Ground Attack: Su-24
    Fighter (FSA and FMR): Su-27/30/33/35 (all units), MiG-29/35

    eehnie wrote:The current upgrade of the Tu-22 is real, exists and is called Tu-22 M3M, and obviously is not an upgrade that can be applied to all the variants of the Tu-22.

    I only said for the Tu-160 that all units would be modernized.
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:33 pm

    Hole wrote:You are contradicting yourself, eehnie. First you use the designation Tu-22 even for the Tu-22M3 but then you make the distinction between Su-27 and Su-35.

    What distintion. I used the Su-35 designation separetely only as part of the Su-27/30/33/35 mechanical development.

    Despite it, I can use variant designations when I consider better, knowing that are part of an overall mechanical development, and I can use designations for the entire mechanical development also when I consider it better, that is most of the times.

    Seriously this topic has been opened by the moderators for this?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18633
    Points : 19189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:33 am

    This topic was created as an alternative to just deleting your posts.

    Whether anyone wants to post here or not is up to them I am not making anyone post here.

    The fundamental problem is most people are ignorant. They see the letter M on the end of the Tu-22M and based on all other uses of the letter in Russian and Soviet aircraft assume means modernised or upgrade... and 99% of the time that is actually an OK assumption.

    When a major change is made normally the aircraft gets a new designation to indicate a fundamental change has been made... so the Su-27 becomes Su-35, and Su-34, and Su-33, and Su-30... and the MiG-25 becomes the MiG-31, and even the Su-15 becomes the Su-21.

    The problem is that those same people who use Tu-22 and Tu-22M interchangeably are not looking at photos of those aircraft when they do so.

    There was talk of the Tu-22M being called Tu-26, and that would have actually been the correct thing to do, but Tupolev was trying to hide the fact that the new aircraft was in fact a new aircraft rather than just an upgrade of an old aircraft.

    But if you want to be pedantic and say the Tu-22 and Tu-22M are related then you need to tell the full truth, because the straight winged Aircraft (proto)type 81 and 89 ended up being the Tu-14... it is a straight winged twin engined bomber... which evolved into the type 82, which kept the wing mounted engines but swept the wings back... because it was the first Tu-22... it first flew in 1949.

    So really the new plane getting upgraded is actually an upgrade of the Tu-14:



    Well... all three aircraft look totally different but that didn't matter with the Tu-22 and Tu-22M, so why should it matter with the Tu-14?
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2340
    Points : 2357
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  eehnie on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:09 pm

    Only to note that like explained many times, I do not use the Tu-22 and Tu-22M designations interchangeably.

    You have a large crusade in front of you challenging all the sources that say that the Tu-22M is developped from and/or based on the Tu-22, and as consequence are part of the same technological development.

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=Tu-22M+developped+from+Tu-22&PC=U316&FORM=CHROMN

    Even you can challenge the Russian Ministry of Defense when they use the Tu-22 designation for units of the Tu-22M variants, like here:

    http://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/vks/news/more.htm?id=12123314@egNews
    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=es&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fstructure.mil.ru%2Fstructure%2Fforces%2Fvks%2Fnews%2Fmore.htm%3Fid%3D12123314%40egNews
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18633
    Points : 19189
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:17 am

    The Tu-22 is not in service, so using the designation for the Tu-22M makes sense... it can be considered a short hand... especially by people who are not experts.

    I just assume a better standard from you.

    There is a direct relationship between the Su-27 and Su-35... there is also a direct relationship between the Su-27 and Su-34 but more modification of the design of the aircraft... they are still related.

    There is no relationship between the Tu-22 and the Tu-22M families of aircraft... different engines, different engine positions, fixed wing vs swing wing, three crew vs four crew... different cockpit displays, though many share instruments, but that is only normal... there are probably similar instruments in Tu-95s that does not mean it was developed from it either...

    The Tu-22M is not an evolution of the Tu-22... they certainly fixed a lot of problems and solved a lot of issues like takeoff run length and top speed and flight range etc etc... the Backfire can also carry a rather greater weapon load than the Blinder too, and is a vastly superior aircraft in almost every way... the Blinder is probably cheaper to buy.

    Just the same as the AK-47 is not called the AK-47 in Russia, it is just called AK.... it is only in the west that it is called AK-47.

    The AKS-74U is called the Krinkov in the US... you can find it in many websites... in fact many Americans don't understand what you are talking about unless you call it a Krinkov... Krinkov isn't even a Russian word... it was made up by the Muj in Afghanistan.

    Terminology is important, but some laypersons don't care that much about accuracy... it is worse in the west... you can call someone that was democratically elected a dictator if you want because who cares what words mean these days?

    Even you can challenge the Russian Ministry of Defense when they use the Tu-22 designation for units of the Tu-22M variants, like here:

    Either a typo or lazy typing... it is unlikely the person typing up the information on their website is actually familiar with the aircraft they are typing about.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Upgrade priorities for Russian AF aircraft.

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:11 am