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    VVS Russian Air Force: News #2

    zepia
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    Post  zepia on Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:04 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Long and informative article:

    The Revival of Russia's Aviation Industry - New Russian Transport Aircraft

    http://russia-insider.com/en/science-tech/revival-russias-aviation-industry-new-russian-transport-aircraft/ri13262


    Thanks for posting the article. Its help me understand what's what in Russian airlift fleet. russia
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:17 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Last year was a short movie about Kret vision of 6gen fighter:

    6MiMfVzpoNE

    This is a good report. Moving to the drone regime of operation is inevitable. Looking back at some Hollywood
    masturbation fests about uber US technology, they will probably be established as the total joke that they are.
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    Post  Guest on Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:48 am

    "According to a source in the Russian Special Services, law enforcers have detained a US citizen near the Chkalovsky Airbase when he was attempting to photograph military and special task aircraft. MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Russian law enforcers have detained a US citizen near the Chkalovsky Airbase when he was attempting to photograph military and special task aircraft, a source in the Russian Special Services said Tuesday.

    “US citizen Paul Brian Filmer was detained in mid-March of this year near the Chkalovsky military airport in the Moscow region for using a radio scanner set on the flight center’s frequency and for photographing military and special task aircraft utilized at the [airport],” a source from the Russian Special Services told RIA Novosti. The source said that information on the attempts by representatives of foreign countries, including accredited diplomats, of using illegal means to receive information on Russia’s Aerospace Forces has been attained from sources in the Russian Special Services."


    Source: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160315/1036296088/russian-military-airbase-photographing.html?utm_source=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FL7KnymGTU4&utm_medium=short_url&utm_content=aQ7J&utm_campaign=URL_shortening

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    Post  JohninMK on Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:13 pm

    Not to be left out, the Brits got their cameras out as well. Apparently not giving up the film either.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Two military diplomats from the British Embassy in Moscow were illegally observing operations at the Russian military airbase in Mozdok in the northern Caucasus at the beginning of March, a source in the Special Services said Tuesday.

    “At the beginning of March, Air Force attache Scott from the British Embassy in Moscow and his Naval aide Coatalen-Hodgson without the appropriate permits visited the Mozdok region of Alania [North Ossetia], which is in a list of territories with controlled visits for foreign citizens. During their trip, facts were recorded of the British diplomats secretly observing the territory of the Mozdok Military Airbase using specialized phot and video equipment,” the source told RIA Novosti.

    The source said the diplomats did not deny they had photographed individual facilities at the military airbase, but refused to surrender the filmed material citing diplomatic immunity.


    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160315/1036297005/russia-uk-observing-military.html#ixzz42y97FZZx
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    Post  sepheronx on Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:41 pm

    Revoked diplomatic immunity or send them packing and forbid any Brita from having any access to sites. Punish them.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:32 pm


    At first I thought that it's just some tourist being too lazy to file the permit request but then I heard about two Brits afterwards. What is this, amateur hour? Have these clowns been sniffing glue or something? No
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    Post  George1 on Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:11 pm

    Russia plans air force drills in Karelia

    In the end of March, the annual air force drill “Ladoga” will take place over Lake Ladoga in the Republic of Karelia, which borders to Finland.

    “Ladoga 2016” will involve about 50 pilots on aircraft of the types MiG-29, MiG-31 and Su-27. Fighter jets from Russia’s Western Military District based in Tver and Kursk Oblast and the Republic of Karelia will take part in the drills, the Ministry of Defense’s website reads.

    The drills will include live firing and launch of guided missiles. According to information from the Ministry of Defense, one of the characteristics of the annual Ladoga drill is that the pilots are not informed where the simulated enemy keeps his air attack weapons, and have to search, detect and track targets on their own, while keeping to the zone of combat duty in the air.

    After the exercise, the young pilots will be qualified to conduct combat duty on protection of Russia air space, the ministry informs.

    The “Ladoga” drill is an annual event, and has involved a lot more personnel and aircraft in previous years. In 2013, more than70 planes and helicopters and 1000 troops took part in the drill, and “Ladoga-2009” also involved airborne troops, border guard, naval vessels, and was conducted at nine different ranges.

    http://www.thebarentsobserver.com/security/2016/03/russia-plans-air-force-drills-karelia
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    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:28 pm

    Video: "Ladoga-2016" RuAF drill is underway.

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    Post  Svyatoslavich on Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:38 pm

    George1 wrote:Video: "Ladoga-2016" RuAF drill is underway.

    Nice video, but I could be spared the cliché "нет аналогов в мире". Also, the claim of Russian fighters reaching Mach 3 is a bit fantasious.
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    Post  Werewolf on Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:51 pm

    Svyatoslavich wrote:
    George1 wrote:Video: "Ladoga-2016" RuAF drill is underway.

    Nice video, but I could be spared the cliché "нет аналогов в мире". Also, the claim of Russian fighters reaching Mach 3 is a bit fantasious.

    One at least does. MIG-31 the glorious.
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:51 pm

    MiG-25 reached Mach 2.8 and could possibly reach Mach 3 http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/mig-25_foxbat.pl
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    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:17 am

    Plant "Aviacor" to build another aircraft AN-140 for the Ministry of Defense of Russia

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1807527.html
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:57 am

    To be supersonic at altitude is rather easy, and the speed of sound changes with altitude.

    No known manned aircraft can exceed about mach 1.6 at sea level, but an aircraft at 18,000m doesn't need to be traveling as fast to break the sound barrier at that altitude.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:55 pm

    GarryB wrote:To be supersonic at altitude is rather easy, and the speed of sound changes with altitude.

    No known manned aircraft can exceed about mach 1.6 at sea level, but an aircraft at 18,000m doesn't need to be traveling as fast to break the sound barrier at that altitude.


    Yup ~10% less still you need fly more than 1,000km/h though. BTW what makes MiG-1.44 with projected top speed ~3150 km/s a Ma 3 machine Smile

    http://www.fighter-planes.com/jetmach1.htm
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    Post  Giulio on Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:37 am

    The mig-25 had analogues in the world: the Mig-31, U-2 and the Sr-71. No others. Why? Because the Mig-25 is an high supersonic, stratospheric interceptor (18.000 - 30.000 m), born for the B-58 and XB-70. The other aircrafts can reach the stratosphere, but then they have to go down. On the contrary, the stratosphere (no pressure, no oxygen for the engines, T -60°C) is the normal flight level for the mig-25 (and U2).
    Could the Mig-25 reach M3 speed? I do not have sources, but, afaik, yes. Easily. So easily that it required a computer control of the flight, in order not to  exceed the aircraft's limits. What limits? Aerodynamic controllability, engines, airframe overheating; in this order. And the aircraft controllability started giving problems long before the engines. The airframe overheating can reduce the airframe strength and G-tolerance (but in a high supersonic interception the G-limit of the combat is about 1-2,5G), or the canopy ability to contain the pressurized cockpit. So, the first problems are the aerodynamic control and the engines. But many Mig-25 exceeded M 2,83 and also M 3 without problems. The problem was that, afaik, if there was not a good reason to exceed the limits, the pilot could have disciplinary problems.
    Needed a M3 speed or more? In a correct interception, afaik, no. Why?
    Because the majority of the interceptions with the Mig-25 were in front of the target, with a very fast, closing in target.
    And from the rear emisphere of the target? There were some limitations, due to the target's speed, so, from behind the maximum target speed had to be Mach 2,5.
    There was a time limit at M 2,83 speed or more? Yes, few minutes and then you have to slow down, cooling engines and airframe for a minute or more and then restart at high speed, but this argument has only a theoretical value. Because at the Mig-25's speed, in five minutes, you did about 250 Km or more; so in this way, or the interception was correct from the her start, or not only the target is lost and it is useless to slow down, cooling and restart, but you do not have longer fuel for to back home with the Mig-25. So, all with the computer control. To chase a stratospheric target is not so simple. And there is not dogfight, like at lower altitudes, where the atmosphere is different.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:03 am

    Yup ~10% less still you need fly more than 1,000km/h though. BTW what makes MiG-1.44 with projected top speed ~3150 km/s a Ma 3 machine

    Projected probably required the 18 ton thrust engines from Saturn... which might or might not ever exist.

    On the contrary, the stratosphere (no pressure, no oxygen for the engines, T -60°C) is the normal flight level for the mig-25 (and U2).

    Not strictly true... there is very thin air at that altitude and you would need enormous lungs and a very high breathing rate to get enough oxygen to breath properly... fortunately for jet aircraft the volume of air flowing through them at that altitude means sufficient air for the pilot to breathe can be provided by a combination of the air flowing through the engines and onboard o2 supplies.

    Could the Mig-25 reach M3 speed? I do not have sources, but, afaik, yes. Easily. So easily that it required a computer control of the flight, in order not to exceed the aircraft's limits.

    The limits for both the MiG-31 and MiG-25 in terms of top speed are engine related. Both are made primarily of stainless steel, though the MiG-31 have a lot of titanium in them as well in areas that get hot like leading edges etc.

    The main problem is with the rotational speed of the turbojet engines when the flight speed exceeds mach 2.83.

    Overheating the turbine blades makes them lose strength and shape... which basically trashes the engines.

    The only aircraft to fly regularly at more than Mach 3 is the SR-71 which uses bypass air from the turbofan engines like a ramjet engine at high speed. the turbojets produce almost not forward thrust when the aircraft is flying at full speed so turbine blade integrity is not an issue. For the MiG-25 and MiG-31 they main propulsion is from turbojet and turbofan engines respectively.

    For a moment I would love to think about a MiG-25 with a MiG-31s engines... there were plans for this but they never eventuated... the MiG-25 has 11 ton thrust engines, while the MiG-31 has 15 tons thrust engines... the performance of the MiG-25 would have been interesting... but it already accelerated relatively quickly and handled well at high altitudes with its large control surfaces.

    What limits? Aerodynamic controllability, engines, airframe overheating; in this order. And the aircraft controllability started giving problems long before the engines. The airframe overheating can reduce the airframe strength and G-tolerance (but in a high supersonic interception the G-limit of the combat is about 1-2,5G), or the canopy ability to contain the pressurized cockpit. So, the first problems are the aerodynamic control and the engines. But many Mig-25 exceeded M 2,83 and also M 3 without problems. The problem was that, afaik, if there was not a good reason to exceed the limits, the pilot could have disciplinary problems.

    Different speeds can be achieved for different periods... the MiG-31 could fly indefinitely at mach 2.4, and could spend 20 minutes at mach 2.6 and 5 minutes at mach 2.83 because of engine temperatures.

    the disciplinary action against pilots was because of the cost of new engines...

    Needed the M3 speed? In a correct interception, afaik, no. Why? Because the majority of the interceptions with the Mig-25 were in front of the target, with the target closing in.
    And from the rear emisphere of the target? There were some limitations, due to the target's speed, so, from behind the maximum target speed had to be Mach 2,5.

    Ideally, but it all depends on where the target is coming from and where it is going... the MiGs will try to get in front of the targets to fire their missiles but when the target is not heading towards their airfield they might not get that option... high speed and high altitude improves missile performance and increases effective missile kill envelope so climb and acceleration is always part of a long range AAM missile attack.


    Needed the M3 speed? In a correct interception, afaik, no. Why? Because the majority of the interceptions with the Mig-25 were in front of the target, with the target closing in.

    The only target where a MiG-25 would be really tested is an SR-71, but when the SR-71 is moving at full speed then IR guided AAMs should be the most effective way of dealing with the threat. SARH would also be very useful for a head on shot so it would be likely that the IR missile would be fired first followed by the SARH missile. Unlike in computer games firing all missiles at once is pointless with the AA-6 missiles because the IR missiles might lock onto the SARH missiles and of course if the target evades the SARH missile then it will likely evade them both, so firing an IR guided missile then a SARH missile increases the chance of hit while retaining the chance of a second two missile salvo before the target blasts past.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:41 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Yup ~10% less still you need fly more than 1,000km/h though. BTW what makes MiG-1.44 with projected top speed ~3150 km/s a Ma 3 machine
    Projected probably required the 18 ton thrust engines from Saturn... which might or might not ever exist.


    That´s why I mentioned projected not achieved. Nonetheless if MiG 1,44 was the chosen one (not  Sukhoi design) as PAK FA then proper engines surely would be  build




    GarryB wrote:
    Needed the M3 speed? In a correct interception, afaik, no. Why? Because the majority of the interceptions with the Mig-25 were in front of the target, with the target closing in.
    And from the rear emisphere of the target? There were some limitations, due to the target's speed, so, from behind the maximum target speed had to be Mach 2,5.

    Ideally, but it all depends on where the target is coming from and where it is going... the MiGs will try to get in front of the targets to fire their missiles but when the target is not heading towards their airfield they might not get that option... high speed and high altitude improves missile performance and increases effective missile kill envelope so climb and acceleration is always part of a long range AAM missile attack.


    Needed the M3 speed? In a correct interception, afaik, no. Why? Because the majority of the interceptions with the Mig-25 were in front of the target, with the target closing in.



    This discussion sounds interesting  especially in Light of MiG-41... Ma 4+ fighter (almost 5000 km/h). Seems like interceptor speed is utmost important especially in vast terirtory of Russia to intercept incoming threat as far as possible from own bases.
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    Post  Giulio on Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:19 pm

    Afaik, the interception range from the ground decreases with the altitude and the speed of the target. For this reason the Mig25 had outstanding capabilities in climb, acceleration and top speed. In a ground controlled interception the Mig-25 took off and climb with full afterburner, then a maximum acceleration phase up to the maximum speed in level flight, a second climb phase with the maximum speed and then acquisition and missile launch. With a correct ground radar warning, the interception range in those conditions was about 1000 km, but, for very high altitude and high speed targets, this range could decrease until 400 or 300 Km (starting from the ground). For this reason the air defenses of a Country are arranged in concentric rings, in succession.
    So it needs an airborne radar and an airborne patrol, with a long range interceptor and in flight refueling capability. In this way you start already in the air and you avoid the first two phases with afterburner (takeoff and climb). It means a time saving and the possibility to greatly increase the interception range (because you are already in flight, with awacs and air tankers).
    For the B-58 and the XB-70 they thought the Mig-25. In the stratosphere.
    I think that now we are in front of a new generation of weapons, in a new atmosphere region, above the stratosphere. The M-4 speed or more, I THINK, it is not for big territories, but for the combat against very high supersonic (or hypersonic?) weapons, at an altitude between 30,000 and 100,000 (suborbital) meters. A new generation of fighters and missiles in a new region, beneath the Space.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:36 am

    That´s why I mentioned projected not achieved. Nonetheless if MiG 1,44 was the chosen one (not Sukhoi design) as PAK FA then proper engines surely would be build

    The problem is cost and was pretty much shown in the Tu-22M family of fast bombers... the T-4 was supposed to be a mach 3 bomber, but the cost and complication made it a failure... the more so because it was found that even at mach 3 a bomber would not be safe in enemy airspace.

    I would suggest the same for a 5th gen fighter... the IR signature alone would make it very non stealthy, and while such a high speed would make it a difficult target for enemy aircraft it would be useless as a dogfighter and would burn a lot of fuel getting up to that speed.

    Mach 3 with turbojet engines is expensive and difficult and I doubt they would even bother for a multirole fighter/bomber.

    For an interceptor then very high speed is a huge advantage... detecting incoming bombers and flying out at mach 4.5 means you can intercept the enemy at much bigger ranges away from your territory giving you more time to shoot down threats and the ability to return home and rearm for another attack.

    Seems like interceptor speed is utmost important especially in vast terirtory of Russia to intercept incoming threat as far as possible from own bases.

    If a MiG-41 based in the north can get to B-52s before they launch it means one AAM kills a bomber and more than a dozen cruise missiles with one hit, and they can probably return to base to rearm and search for any leaking cruise missiles that might have snuck through.

    I think that now we are in front of a new generation of weapons, in a new atmosphere region, above the stratosphere. The M-4 speed or more, I THINK, it is not for big territories, but for the combat against very high supersonic (or hypersonic?) weapons, at an altitude between 30,000 and 100,000 (suborbital) meters. A new generation of fighters and missiles in a new region, beneath the Space.

    Very high speed allows the interceptor to get into attack position faster and earlier and to cover more air space.

    I rather suspect the MiG-41 will have a new missile... based on the S-500 and with an air launch at mach 4 at high altitude I would suspect satellites would be in danger from this pairing...

    I just wonder what sort of operational altitude the MiG-41 could achieve...
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    Post  franco on Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:08 pm

    Operations in Syria reveal minor technological glitches in the new Su-34 and Su-35S's. Better to find them now;

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160327/1037039268/russian-jets-syrian-campaign.html
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:02 am

    franco wrote:Operations in Syria reveal minor technological glitches in the new Su-34 and Su-35S's. Better to find them now;

    http://sputniknews.com/military/20160327/1037039268/russian-jets-syrian-campaign.html

    Nice pro-MiG advertising.

    It seems that the engine issues are being implied as being related to the dust ingestion, and I think that's the case. The anti-FOD system on Su-27 related aircraft is not very dustproof. However, those on MiG-29 (not MiG-29OVT and the original MiG-29M and MiG-29M which use the Sukhoi type of anti-FOD systems) and Yak-130 related aircraft are dustproof.
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    Post  Austin on Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:35 pm

    Russian Aerospace Procurement Falls As Currency Weakens

    http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-aerospace-procurement-falls-currency-weakens
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:04 pm

    That's a stupid article. Currency exchange has nothing to do with how much a plane costs for Russia. The Su-35 as example costs less now than it did 2 years ago cause of exchange rate but costs the same for Russia now in Rubles. Also, procurement wasn't touched either so the money is the same in rubles terms.

    What a garbage article. They procure certain % of planes, must be X reason. Wow, aviation week sounds desperate for tales.
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    Post  franco on Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:26 pm

    Austin wrote:Russian Aerospace Procurement Falls As Currency Weakens

    http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-aerospace-procurement-falls-currency-weakens

    Or perhaps the aircraft numbers were higher at the start due their being ready for production while as they slow down in numbers, the next big push will be in new class Armored Vehicles.
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    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:40 am

    Take-off magazine in March 2016 , special edition for FIDAE 2016

    http://en.take-off.ru/component/content/article/92-current/431-current

    Sponsored content

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