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    Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Hole on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:03 pm

    Are there just 20 towns in Russia?
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:06 pm

    Hole wrote:Are there just 20 towns in Russia?

    Ignore his retardation.

    I hope he knows Russia has more towns than 20.....

    PapaDragon wrote:
    hoom wrote:.....
    Also apparently they may be renaming to Mytischi, Sovetsk, Odintsovo, and Kozelsk dunno
    I really liked the storm names unshaven


    Isn't it considered bad luck to change names of ships without really good reason?

    Also, fact that tiny ships like these will be named after actual towns indicates that there will be much fewer ships built for Navy than even most pessimistic estimates predicted.

    So do you have anything to back that up or are you just using your crystal ball as usual?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_Russia

    So there is over 1,100 towns.

    Good to know, so they will build 1,100 ships then.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:40 pm


    If they build a surface fleet with that many tolet seats it will be quite an accomplishment given the current trajectory
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:47 pm

    The trolling is strong with this one.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:22 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:The trolling is strong with this one.

    Whatever makes you feel better

    In the meantime I'll be waiting to be proven wrong
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:35 pm

    mhm.

    I think they do just that by their purchases of these small ships. Then we will see what happens with the frigates.

    So far, it is whatever makes you feel better. You seem to have a great enjoyment making fun of Russians even though they seem to have had a hurdle thanks to engine issues they are still trying to fix. I know you want orders here and now, but I rather like to think that waiting till all the issues are resolved before making commitments, may be a better option.

    But of course, you know better.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Hole on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:59 pm

    The frigate program is behind scedule because of the engine problem. Now the Neustrashimyy has been fitted with new russian made gas turbines, so this problem seems to be close to being solved once and for all.

    Tingsay

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Tingsay on Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:24 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:The trolling is strong with this one.

    Whatever makes you feel better

    In the meantime I'll be waiting to be proven wrong

    Actually, the truth is somewhere in the middle here. Russian navy does have major problems when it comes to construction, problems not a lot of the other naval powers have. But it is also true that Russian surface fleet is taking a back seat to the submarine force with the budget. Didn't Russia just order several more Boreis recently? Several SSBNs are not something to scoff at. Add to that 6 Yasens under construction now. Prioritizing subs is actually the smartest move Russia can do right now.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:34 am

    Tingsay wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:The trolling is strong with this one.

    Whatever makes you feel better

    In the meantime I'll be waiting to be proven wrong

    Actually, the truth is somewhere in the middle here. Russian navy does have major problems when it comes to construction, problems not a lot of the other naval powers have. But it is also true that Russian surface fleet is taking a back seat to the submarine force with the budget. Didn't Russia just order several more Boreis recently? Several SSBNs are not something to scoff at. Add to that 6 Yasens under construction now. Prioritizing subs is actually the smartest move Russia can do right now.

    I never said anything about submarine construction, that part they are handling decently (especially Borei) and I think they should plow even more resources into it because they definitely need more subs especially Yasens (7 is not enough)

    What I was criticizing was surface vessel situation

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:26 am

    Isn't it considered bad luck to change names of ships without really good reason?
    Russia seems to be historically not particularly concerned about that particular superstition.

    Also, fact that tiny ships like these will be named after actual towns indicates that there will be much fewer ships built for Navy than even most pessimistic estimates predicted.
    Point others are missing is historically Russia has used place names for major ships not missile boats, renaming missile boats to towns implies a change to them being considered major units.

    Tingsay

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Tingsay on Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:39 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Tingsay wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:The trolling is strong with this one.

    Whatever makes you feel better

    In the meantime I'll be waiting to be proven wrong

    Actually, the truth is somewhere in the middle here. Russian navy does have major problems when it comes to construction, problems not a lot of the other naval powers have. But it is also true that Russian surface fleet is taking a back seat to the submarine force with the budget. Didn't Russia just order several more Boreis recently? Several SSBNs are not something to scoff at. Add to that 6 Yasens under construction now. Prioritizing subs is actually the smartest move Russia can do right now.

    I never said anything about submarine construction, that part they are handling decently (especially Borei) and I think they should plow even more resources into it because they definitely need more subs especially Yasens (7 is not enough)

    What I was criticizing was surface vessel situation


    Exactly why you need to tone down your criticism of the surface fleet a little bit. The success of the submarine construction is in part due to the short comings on the surface fleet construction. In turn, the failures on the surface fleet construction is in part due to the success of the sub construction.

    It's like a trade off in a tight budget. Somebody had to have the shorter end of the stick so the other can get the longer one. They decided its the surface fleet as the loser. Only thing that can help the surface fleet right now is a better Russian economy.

    marat

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  marat on Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:53 am

    Hole wrote:The frigate program is behind scedule because of the engine problem. Now the Neustrashimyy has been fitted with new russian made gas turbines, so this problem seems to be close to being solved once and for all.

    I somehow mis that information, any link, when it happened, which turbine it get and did turbines proved well?
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Hole on Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:24 am

    It was mentioned in an article on Sputnik last week. The ship will be back in service (trials?) soon, then we will see.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:42 pm

    More pics as ever from Balancer
















    Also partaking in Navy parade practice (from 15:22) with an Orlan-10 drone on the back.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Hole on Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:47 pm

    thumbsup cheers
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    Luq man

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Luq man on Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:24 pm

    Situation at Pella:



    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:25 pm

    Yet more pics





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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Hole on Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:21 pm

    When i see the empty space between the AK630´s i think that they could have easily fit a Redut system into it.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:59 am

    When i see the empty space between the AK630´s i think that they could have easily fit a Redut system into it.
    Thats where the Pantsir-M is going on the 3rd+.
    The big question is why they didn't put a Palash there on the first 2?

    Just noticed there are three E/O systems on the back of the mast

    2 of the periscope thingies & a small ball in the middle.
    I'd thought having the 1 periscope in the middle of the bridge was a cost saving thing (most have one on each bridge wing) but 2 on the back & a ball kills that idea.
    I guess the periscopes are tied to the AK-630s.
    There is no ball on the frontal arc & its quite small so I guess either its mainly for keeping an eye on the decks aft or could it be some kind of laser/IR countermeasure?

    miroslav

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  miroslav on Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:59 pm

    Hole wrote:When i see the empty space between the AK630´s i think that they could have easily fit a Redut system into it.

    You cant just put stuff because there seams to be enough room on the surface. On the third ship, the Pantsir-M system needed to raised on an additional platform because of the missiles in the hull itself.

    The missiles alone for the Pantnsir are 3.2m long, not counting the mounts and other machinery that holds them, the length of the 9M96E missiles is 4.75 m, that's a lot higher than the back of the structure where the AK-630 are placed, at least by another 1.5 m.

    I think there are a lot of tactical and financial reasons why building a small ship with sophisticated long range AD is not a good idea event if it can be technically done, things like: survivability, range/endurance, seaworthiness.

    Generally, if you want a ship that can effectively deal with all 3 main types of threats, surface, sub-suface and air, you need at least a large corvette/small frigate, 105m in length minimum, which is exactly what you can see in practical examples of ships.
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:35 pm

    Why didnt the 1st 2 ships not have a Kashtan or Palma CIWS if the pantsyr wasnt ready?
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:44 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why didnt the 1st 2 ships not have a Kashtan or Palma CIWS if the pantsyr wasnt ready?

    Lack of $$$ most probably.
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    Hole

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  Hole on Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:51 pm

    miroslav wrote:
    Hole wrote:When i see the empty space between the AK630´s i think that they could have easily fit a Redut system into it.

    You cant just put stuff because there seams to be enough room on the surface. On the third ship, the Pantsir-M system needed to raised on an additional platform because of the missiles in the hull itself.

    The missiles alone for the Pantnsir are 3.2m long, not counting the mounts and other machinery that holds them, the length of the 9M96E missiles is 4.75 m, that's a lot higher than the back of the structure where the AK-630 are placed, at least by another 1.5 m.

    I think there are a lot of tactical and financial reasons why building a small ship with sophisticated long range AD is not a good idea event if it can be technically done, things like: survivability, range/endurance, seaworthiness.

    Generally, if you want a ship that can effectively deal with all 3 main types of threats, surface, sub-suface and air, you need at least a large corvette/small frigate, 105m in length minimum, which is exactly what you can see in practical examples of ships.

    I mean use Redut from the beginning. Instead of Pantsir. Raise the deck accordingly. Or use the small missile (9M100). 48 missiles instead of 32.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:16 pm

    Redut would take up much more room then a Panster, you cannot just put everything under the sun on a ship that small, you gotta make compromises and I mean a ship having Panster M with all the other stuff it has is fine.

    These aren't DD's.

    hoom

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    Re: Project 22800: "Karakurt" class missile ship

    Post  hoom on Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:52 am

    Boop

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