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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:14 pm

    I have never understood why one would not have a mussle break. You don't really lose any range and you reduce recoil....plus you produce a less definite sound signature.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:05 am

    Their old 57mm, 76.2mm, 100mm, and 130mm guns didn't have muzzle brakes... most had automated muzzle covers to keep the salt air out of the barrels one assumes, but no muzzle brakes.

    I guess with the smaller lighter gun mounts with increased energy longer ranged shells a muzzle brake has become a more useful thing...
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:03 pm

    It seems Gorshkov was send to test Zirkon missiles.

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 20 Ej51f510

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 20 Ej51f511
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:05 pm


    Bigly if true

    What makes you think those are Zircons?

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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Bigly if true

    What makes you think those are Zircons?


    It's on twitter. Idk if it is official though.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1197556525042208775

    There are russian twitts also but I don't read russian.
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    Post  Arrow on Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:24 am

    Cirkon will be test the end of year. So last day on December. Not now.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:44 am

    Arrow wrote:Cirkon will be test the end of year. So last day on December. Not now.


    lol1 lol1 in terms of stupidity on this forum you get the 1st place.
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    Post  kumbor on Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:28 pm

    Isos wrote:It seems Gorshkov was send to test Zirkon missiles.

    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2 - Page 20 Ej51f510

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    I think these are simply torpedoes  without warheads.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:50 pm

    Gorshkov carries only paket nk torpedoes which are smaller than that. Those things seems to be missiles in their canisters and they occupy all the lenght if the helicopter pad so ~10m long.
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    Post  owais.usmani on Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:53 pm

    But if Gorskov is leaving to test zirkon, why would they be lying out in open on the deck instead of inside the UKSK VLS?
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    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:29 pm

    They could be reloads which will be put in the VLS by a ship that has a cane. Or they can't use them from UKSK and plan to use them from the back by elevating those two canister and use Gorshkovs computers to program the missiles.

    There is still nothing official.
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    Post  dino00 on Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:23 pm

    Arrow wrote:Cirkon will be test the end of year. So last day on December. Not now.

    Russia plans new trials of Tsirkon hypersonic missile before yearend — source

    MOSCOW, November 22. /TASS/ Laughing Laughing

    https://tass.com/defense/1091759
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    Post  Arrow on Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:38 pm

    It has been known for a year that Cirkon will be tested at the end of 2019. Where's the news here? Let them finally show this missile, it will be something new or a test movie.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:01 pm

    Arrow wrote:It has been known for a year that Cirkon will be tested at the end of 2019. Where's the news here? Let them finally show this missile, it will be something new or a test movie.
    in Russian it is циркон, you can transliterate the ц as either z or ts and the pronounce is something like [ts], so could you please use one of the following two spellings: Tsirkon or Zircon?

    The one you use looks like a mockery, but I am sure it was incidental.
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    Post  hoom on Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:06 am

    Its certainly interesting timing to see canisters on the deck at a time when press are saying Zirkon is about to be tested.
    But doesn't make much sense that they are on the heli-deck if its UKSK compatible?
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:25 am

    Carrying the tubes there is interesting, because it would mean they can't use their helo... so why are they displaying these tubes?

    The test launch is supposed to be from a test platform rather than a ship, so maybe they are just transporting the missiles as a show for the public knowing there are plenty of eyes and cameras following their every move anyway to get a glimpse of this new system...
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    Post  Arrow on Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:48 am

    And so for the next 10 years the public will not see the Cirkon missile. For many years there were no photos of P-700. wrote:
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    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:53 pm

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    For comparison: Kaliber missiles in their transport canisters
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    Post  kvs on Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:31 pm

    Some NATO troll pissing in the thread. Where's the yanqui variant of the "cirkon", eh, clown?

    According to Bolton Russia stole yanqui hypersonic tech. Even though yanquis don't have any actual hypersonic missile systems.

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    Post  dino00 on Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:07 pm

    The frigate Admiral Gorshkov arrived at the White Sea naval base of the Northern Fleet to test new types of weapons

    Today, the head frigate of project 22350 “Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov” arrived in the White Sea naval base of the Northern Fleet. In the near future, in Severodvinsk, the ship will undergo preparation for testing new types of weapons and will go to the White Sea to conduct test firing.

    The ship’s interbase transition took place under favorable hydrometeorological conditions. While sailing in the Barents and White Seas, the frigate’s crew worked out the organization of marching watch and conducted exercises to combat the survivability of the ship on the move.

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12263420@egNews

    Russian MOD
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:13 am

    And so for the next 10 years the public will not see the Cirkon missile. For many years there were no photos of P-700. wrote:

    The Russians have no obligation to show any weapon system... it is in their interests to control what is seen and when... the T-64 was in service for about 10 years before decent photos of it were revealed... it was their best tank of the time although it had some growing pains and issues.

    If the Soviets go showing off the P-700 the west gains information about its physical shape and dimensions... which leads to more accurate assessments of its performance and more realistic assessments of the threat it represents.... showing it before it is in service is just showing the enemy what they need to do to counter it.

    The difference with Zircon is that it will be compatible with launchers fitted to new and upgraded ships and subs across the Russian fleet... P-700 went in to service slowly it was only carried by three types... Oscar class subs (24 per vessel), Kirovs (20 per vessel) and the Kuznetsov (12 on one vessel).

    In comparison an upgraded Kirov will be able to carry up to 80 Zircons in one ship and upgraded Oscar class subs 72 each.

    For P-700 the restriction was that it could only be loaded onto the largest vessels in the Soviet fleet, the Zircon can be loaded on to most of them... likely even their new helicopter carriers... the restriction for the Zircon would be how many are they going to make.

    But back to revealing the missile... this one wont be for export for a little while... upgraded Onyx missiles will likely be first to be exported.... I suspect they will eventually use it in an exercise and NATO spies will be bending backwards to film that... which will be funny... but then they might just display it at the next MAKS or military parade in Moscow.
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    Post  Arrow on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:39 am

    But they showed hypersonic Kindzal and such a brand new the Burevestnik nuclear-powered missile. Why is Zircon kept so secret?
    Is it certain that Zircon is powered by a scramjet engine? Could this be another solution. Maybe a regular rocket engine like Kindzal?
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    Post  dino00 on Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:41 am

    Arrow wrote:But they showed hypersonic  Kindzal and such a brand new the Burevestnik nuclear-powered missile. Why is Zircon kept so secret?
    Is it certain that Zircon is powered by a scramjet engine? Could this be another solution. Maybe a regular rocket engine like Kindzal?

    If you are beeing serious you remember that both the missiles you talked weren't show clean, they were blurred or whith a carpet Very Happy above.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:08 pm

    But they showed hypersonic Kindzal and such a brand new the Burevestnik nuclear-powered missile. Why is Zircon kept so secret?
    Is it certain that Zircon is powered by a scramjet engine? Could this be another solution. Maybe a regular rocket engine like Kindzal?

    They will do what is in their interests.

    Showing Kinzhal and Burevestnik was probably to make the west realise that although Russia is only making frigates and corvettes that NATO navies do not have dominance of the sea around Russia including the arctic.

    It is muscle flexing.

    During the 1982 conflict in the Falklands the British lost several modern ships to Exocet missiles... a missile they had in their own service... after the conflict the British said they lost several ships to sea skimming missiles but it is OK because the Soviets didn't have any sea skimming missiles so they were fine... their main change was to put mounts all over their ships to allow FN MAG machine guns to be pintle mounted for air defence.

    The Soviets added mounts for 12.7mm machine guns on their ships in that period too... which just shows they watch and try to learn from everything... but they chose to remain quiet about the Moskit missiles... SS-N-22 Sunburn missile they were just putting in to service that had a better range than Exocet (120km range for the surface launched version vs about 90km for Exocet of the time), and flew at a max height of 300m to find its target and then it dropped down to below 7m altitude above the water at mach 2. Of course Exocet was a 600kg missile you could load on to a tactical aircraft, while Moskit was a 4.5 ton ramjet powered supersonic anti ship sea skimming missile intended to defeat AEGIS.

    STANDARD SAMs of the US Navy couldn't hit targets below 7m so they would be defended with Phalanx in an attack from Moskit...

    If Zircon was rocket powered it would have been in service already... Kh-32 is rocket powered and flys at mach 4.5 at 40,000m altitude... Zircon will fly twice as fast...
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:10 pm

    I suspect they also released information in the hope that the US would want to renegotiate some treaties like the INF treaty and the New Start, but American arrogance... they think they can spend money and make something better... this is going to be very expensive for the US.

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