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    Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov #2

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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:48 am


    I have been thinking about this deployment/circumnavigation by Gorshkov: could it be that this mission is test run or proof of concept that modern frigate or it's derivative can be used in a same role that was previously reserved for destroyers and cruisers?

    Escort missions for larger vessels and long range deployments?

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    Post  Isos on Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 am

    Frigates have been always able to that but with only 32 air def missiles and 16 cruise missiles and shorter legs it's not going to replace destroyers and nuclear cruiser.

    This trip is a test to know what they need if they want to navigate around the world with modern ships.
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:19 pm

    Looks like no trip to Venezuela, on route to Jamaica then probably Cuba.


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    #RussianNavy to Jamaica: #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov FFG 454 & tugs Elbrus and Nikolay Chiker are sailing the Caribbean Sea likely en route to Kingston. They are approximately 250nm of Kingston, Jamaica.




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    Post  Isos on Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:42 pm

    Venezuela crisis has ended since 1 month. If Bolton doesn't tweet about them anymore they can sleep peacefully without any Gorshkov by their side Laughing .
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:34 am

    Isos wrote:Frigates have been always able to that but with only 32 air def missiles and 16 cruise missiles and shorter legs it's not going to replace destroyers and nuclear cruiser.

    This trip is a test to know what they need if they want to navigate around the world with modern ships.

    Hardly the Russian has been sending ships across the globe for years maybe not warships sure but doesn't change much.

    They are simply trooping the colors and can actually afford to send the ship out on long-range cause they can.

    They are also showing off the ship, it's a PR move just mixed with giving the crew some experience. Since most crews in the Russian navy have never sailed that far away from home.
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:10 pm

    Scrub my Jamaica idea, looks straight to Cuba


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    #RussianNavy to Cuba?: #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov FFG 454 & tugs Elbrus and Nikolay Chiker are sailing the Caribbean Sea towards Cuba. They are approximately 200nm south of Cayman Islands.
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    Post  hoom on Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:21 pm

    Just because its going to Cuba first doesn't mean it won't visit Venezuela.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:13 am

    Well compared with a Sovremmeny class destroyer... this frigate is pretty well armed... the Sov had two single armed launchers for basically BUK based sams with a total of 48 missiles on board with two launchers with 24 missiles each, plus a total of 8 ready to fire supersonic anti ship missiles that only had a range of 120km, plus it had two good 130mm twin barrel guns with a lot of rounds of ammo plus 4 single 30mm gatling gun CIWS guns and torpedos...

    The Gorshkov frigate has one 130mm gun, plus two UKSK launchers for 16 ready to fire anti ship missiles or land attack missiles or anti sub missiles, plus a total of 32 launch tubes for up to 32 9M96 SAMs but for each tube you could alternatively have four 9M100 CIWS missiles as well... so you could have 26 tubes loaded with various combinations of 150km and 50km range SAMs, plus the remaining 6 tubes loaded with 24 short range CIWS missiles for a total of 50 ready to fire missiles if you wanted them. There is also two Kashtan mounts with 24 missiles each for CIWS and of course four 30mm gatling guns and torpedoes.

    So really to be fair apart from having one less 130mm gun turret, which is compensated for by having double the main missile load capacity and the flexibility of having anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missile choices for those tubes it is probably rather better armed... the original SA-N-7 missile was rated out to about 35km, and the small sized 9M96 reaches 50km... so it is a lot better off compared with cold war destroyers.

    I suspect they will decide whether to send it to venezuela... it might raise tensions where they want things to just calm down...
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    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:51 pm


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    The task group of ships of the #ВМФ #СФ🇷🇺#Russian #Navy at the head by the RFS 454 Admiral Gorshkov frigate have approached the Cuba.


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    Post  flamming_python on Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:35 am

    GarryB wrote:Well compared with a Sovremmeny class destroyer... this frigate is pretty well armed... the Sov had two single armed launchers for basically BUK based sams with a total of 48 missiles on board with two launchers with 24 missiles each, plus a total of 8 ready to fire supersonic anti ship missiles that only had a range of 120km, plus it had two good 130mm twin barrel guns with a lot of rounds of ammo plus 4 single 30mm gatling gun CIWS guns and torpedos...

    The Gorshkov frigate has one 130mm gun, plus two UKSK launchers for 16 ready to fire anti ship missiles or land attack missiles or anti sub missiles, plus a total of 32 launch tubes for up to 32 9M96 SAMs but for each tube you could alternatively have four 9M100 CIWS missiles as well... so you could have 26 tubes loaded with various combinations of 150km and 50km range SAMs, plus the remaining 6 tubes loaded with 24 short range CIWS missiles for a total of 50 ready to fire missiles if you wanted them. There is also two Kashtan mounts with 24 missiles each for CIWS and of course four 30mm gatling guns and torpedoes.

    So really to be fair apart from having one less 130mm gun turret, which is compensated for by having double the main missile load capacity and the flexibility of having anti ship, anti sub, and land attack missile choices for those tubes it is probably rather better armed... the original SA-N-7 missile was rated out to about 35km, and the small sized 9M96 reaches 50km... so it is a lot better off compared with cold war destroyers.

    I suspect they will decide whether to send it to venezuela... it might raise tensions where they want things to just calm down...

    It's quite comparable to the Type 45 destroyer in fact.

    Except for having considerably less range and endurance (but still respectable). But for the price of one of the UK's destroyer you can procure 3-4 Gorshkovs.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:24 am

    Exactly... just in terms of weapons it looks good, but also the range of weapons is better... the Sov just had 8 anti ship missiles, the Udaloy had just 8 missiles optimised for anti sub use that could be used against ships as well... the Gorshkov could carry 8 Onyx missiles or soon hypersonic Zircon missiles AND 8 x 91RE1 40km range mach 2 ballistic rockets that delivers an anti sub torpedo rapidly and silently to the target sub... it has radars and sonar and communications systems that will put the old ships to shame... and it could also carry land attack cruise missiles too if wanted.

    The problem is that it is a frigate so rather smaller than an older destroyer with probably less endurance, but in terms of sensors and fire power in some ways it is a combination of Sovremmeny and Udaloy destroyers in one package... which is pretty damn good.

    Next boats have an extra UKSK launcher, so 24 primary missiles ready to fire...
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    Post  kumbor on Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:Exactly... just in terms of weapons it looks good, but also the range of weapons is better... the Sov just had 8 anti ship missiles, the Udaloy had just 8 missiles optimised for anti sub use that could be used against ships as well... the Gorshkov could carry 8 Onyx missiles or soon hypersonic Zircon missiles AND 8 x 91RE1 40km range mach 2 ballistic rockets that delivers an anti sub torpedo rapidly and silently to the target sub... it has radars and sonar and communications systems that will put the old ships to shame... and it could also carry land attack cruise missiles too if wanted.

    The problem is that it is a frigate so rather smaller than an older destroyer with probably less endurance, but in terms of sensors and fire power in some ways it is a combination of Sovremmeny and Udaloy destroyers in one package... which is pretty damn good.

    Next boats have an extra UKSK launcher, so 24 primary missiles ready to fire...

    Please, do have in mind that western built combat ships are getting prohibitively expensive to build even for rich states. In fact, they are getting IDIOTICALLY expensive. I bet there is corruption to amount to 50% of cost of one billion EUR for a capable multirole frigate. Russians are building capable ships for a half of price.
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:48 pm

    Crew now about to stock up on cigars Smile

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    .@USNavy Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer USS Jason Dunham patrols Florida Straits and keeps an eye on Russian naval movements 30nm North of Havana.


    #RussianNavy #ВМФ ships #СФ Admiral Gorshkov & tugs Elbrus & Nikolay Chiker travelled the Straits of Florida and arrived to Havana, Cuba.


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    Post  Isos on Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:58 pm

    Not even a freedom of navigation Op around Florida ?
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    Post  kvs on Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:48 pm

    Isos wrote:Not even a freedom of navigation Op around Florida ?

    It's cute how warships are used by the USA to engage in this "enforcement of international law of the sea". If you look at the law it does not
    cover aggressive military ships as having any freedom to navigate in territorial waters. Of course the MSM will never highlight this fact.
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    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:49 pm

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    Post  ult on Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:59 pm

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:14 pm

    kvs wrote:
    Isos wrote:Not even a freedom of navigation Op around Florida ?

    It's cute how warships are used by the USA to engage in this "enforcement of international law of the sea".    If you look at the law it does not
    cover aggressive military ships as having any freedom to navigate in territorial waters.   Of course the MSM will never highlight this fact.

    It's amusing your pushing that BS, Havana is right on our doorstep, naturally, we would send a ship to shadow it.

    Just like when we send warships near Russia doorsteps it sends a ship to shadow.

    This is 100 percent normal but yes twist the narrative. Any country will send a ship to shadow someones else if it gets close enough that's the norm.
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    Post  Isos on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:40 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    It's amusing your pushing that BS, Havana is right on our doorstep, naturally, we would send a ship to shadow it.

    Just like when we send warships near Russia doorsteps it sends a ship to shadow.

    This is 100 percent normal but yes twist the narrative. Any country will send a ship to shadow someones else if it gets close enough that's the norm.

    Not the same. Sendig a ship to a friendly country and sendig a ship to the borders of another one is different.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:35 am

    Isos wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    It's amusing your pushing that BS, Havana is right on our doorstep, naturally, we would send a ship to shadow it.

    Just like when we send warships near Russia doorsteps it sends a ship to shadow.

    This is 100 percent normal but yes twist the narrative. Any country will send a ship to shadow someones else if it gets close enough that's the norm.

    Not the same. Sendig a ship to a friendly country and sendig a ship to the borders of another one is different.

    How you that arrogant you think Russia doesn't do that, it sends spy ships along our territorial waterlines all the time.

    Spare me from that logic.

    I am also well aware the difference between a friendly port visit and something that isn't but I wasn't talking about a friendly port visit either AND for the record most of the time even if it's a friendly port visit there will be other ships watching the one incoming.
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:12 am

    Yeah, but when America does it it is evil...
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:56 pm

    **The new export version of gorshkov**

    USC is on the "Army-2019" multipurpose frigate

    He is able to carry 32 cruise missiles


    KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, June 25. / Tass /. The United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) represents at the International Military-Technical Forum Army-2019, which opens on Tuesday, a line of ships carrying the Caliber-NK cruise missiles, including a project 22356 multi-purpose frigate capable of carrying 32 cruise missiles.

    In the USC pavilion, the forum presented a model of a multi-purpose frigate of project 22356. Its main armament is 16 Caliber-NKE missiles and 16 Yakhont anti-missile missiles (the export version of the Onyx missile).

    Existing frigates of a similar project 22350, which are in service with the Russian Navy, are capable of carrying 16 Caliber-NK and / or Onyx missiles.

    The line of carriers "Calibrov" presented at the forum is also a patrol ship of Project 22500 (eight Caliber-NKE missiles), a small patrol ship of Project 20382 (eight missiles Uran-E, Caliber-NKE or Yakhont) .

    The line of landing ships includes, in particular, a large landing ship (BDK) of project 11711E (export version of BDK of project 11711, the head ship is Ivan Gren) with a displacement of 6,600 tons, an average landing ship of project 21810 with a displacement of 1,700 tons. The latter is capable of transporting five main battle tanks, as well as 200 landing forces, including tank crews.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6588181
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:05 pm


    How you that arrogant you think Russia doesn't do that, it sends spy ships along our territorial waterlines all the time.

    Spare me from that logic.

    I am also well aware the difference between a friendly port visit and something that isn't but I wasn't talking about a friendly port visit either AND for the record most of the time even if it's a friendly port visit there will be other ships watching the one incoming

    Gorshkov is making a trip around the world and Cuba visit is made because Cuba is a friendly country.

    Spy ship don't have 50 loaded tomahawks or kalibr missiles that can threaten countries.

    When your Burkes navigates 20km from China or Crima or Iran with at the same time many drone flying around too it is only for provocation. Don't be made then when ypu lose your stupid drones. Since you did nothing against Iran, I hope Russia and China will see that as weekness and start shooting down you multi million drones all the time. That will teach you some lessons.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:23 pm

    Isos wrote:

    How you that arrogant you think Russia doesn't do that, it sends spy ships along our territorial waterlines all the time.

    Spare me from that logic.

    I am also well aware the difference between a friendly port visit and something that isn't but I wasn't talking about a friendly port visit either AND for the record most of the time even if it's a friendly port visit there will be other ships watching the one incoming

    Gorshkov is making a trip around the world and Cuba visit is made because Cuba is a friendly country.

    Spy ship don't have 50 loaded tomahawks or kalibr missiles that can threaten countries.

    When your Burkes navigates 20km from China or Crima or Iran with at the same time many drone flying around too it is only for provocation. Don't be made then when ypu lose your stupid drones. Since you did nothing against Iran, I hope Russia and China will see that as weekness and start shooting down you multi million drones all the time. That will teach you some lessons.

    Whoever said I was mad about a drone getting shot down?. What does that have to do with this?. What can't justify your point that you have to bring up something completely unrelated to it?. For the recorded, I really don't care they shout it down.

    But you kinda just put your own foot in your mouth indeed a frigate has weapons so naturally if it gets close to someone's waters they are going to keep an eye on it.

    The more you talk the more I wonder what goes on in your head. Common sense is lost to people on this forum I swear.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:00 pm

    dino00 wrote:**The new export version of gorshkov**

    USC is on the "Army-2019" multipurpose frigate

    He is able to carry 32 cruise missiles


    KUBINKA / Moscow Region /, June 25. / Tass /. The United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) represents at the International Military-Technical Forum Army-2019, which opens on Tuesday, a line of ships carrying the Caliber-NK cruise missiles, including a project 22356 multi-purpose frigate capable of carrying 32 cruise missiles.

    In the USC pavilion, the forum [b]presented a model of a multi-purpose frigate of project 22356. Its main armament is 16 Caliber-NKE missiles and 16 Yakhont anti-missile missiles (the export version of the Onyx
    I believe it is an error.
    Maybe they meant 16 calibr OR yakhont + 8 Antisub calibr, for a total of 24 missiles.
    I know that they had a.model of the version.with 24 UKSK VLS, similar to the 5th and 6 th 22350 being built for Russia.

    It would not.make sense another version, given the fact that they plan also a larger 22350M with 48-UKSK VLS (plus an undisclosed amount of redut VLS).

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