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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Hole on Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:47 pm

    There´s at least one guy on this forum who will be were happy about this news. Very Happy
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    Nibiru

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Nibiru on Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:44 pm

    Any news if the Su-57 will be exhibited at Army 2018? I read somewhere that the Su-57 was pulled out of the event.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:09 pm

    Nibiru wrote:Any news if the Su-57 will be exhibited at Army 2018? I read somewhere that the Su-57 was pulled out of the event.

    It was flying like just now
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:03 pm

    Two planes signed apparently... that is what you call rushing the procurement Razz

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480249
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  dino00 on Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:10 pm

    LMFS wrote:Two planes signed apparently... that is what you call rushing the procurement Razz

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480249

    I think That with the prototypes thats 12
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:58 pm

    There is more:

    http://uacrussia.ru/ru/press-center/news/oak-i-ministerstvo-oborony-rossii-podpisali-kontrakty-na-postavku-su-57-i-mig-35

    "The first production SU-57 plane will come to VKS in 2019. Taking into account the received results of tests, including positive check of aviation complex in Syria, the Russian Defense Ministry already in the short term plans to receive 15 production cars", - I have reported following the results of a signing ceremony the Deputy Minister of Defence Alexey Krivoruchko.

    At the end of last year in Zhukovsky flight tests of the latest Russian fighter of the fifth generation of SU-57 with the engine of the second stage have begun. The Deputy Minister of Defence has reported that the Russian Defense Ministry expects the beginning of serial deliveries of planes with new engines since 2023. Also Alexey Krivoruchko has noted that the SU-57 plane is the perspective platform for creation of new aircraft in various executions.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:02 pm

    15 by 2020? Seems odd number
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:12 pm

    Probably 15 until 2023, 2 of them until 2020?

    marcellogo

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  marcellogo on Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:04 pm

    LMFS wrote:Two planes signed apparently... that is what you call rushing the procurement Razz

    http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5480249

    Not, just the usual "first serial" couple i.e. the ones used to test and optimize the operation of the assembly line.
    Same happened with all the fighters actually in production.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:30 pm

    Ok thanks
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Hole on Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:37 pm

    Just to see if the factory can deliver the plane in the quality the air force wants.
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    franco

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  franco on Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:50 pm

    Most likely the 2 most developed prototypes for training and familiarization of air and ground crews.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:16 pm

    franco wrote:Most likely the 2 most developed prototypes for training and familiarization of air and ground crews.  

    Probably ones used in Syria. Going back for retooling and or adjustments, and then going back to airforce.
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    franco

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  franco on Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:25 pm

    My thoughts exactly.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:22 pm

    Sorry, are you saying that they are going to buy again two already produced prototypes? And what would that bring in terms of testing and fine-tuning the serial production?

    EDIT

    Here:

    KUBINKA (Moscow region), Aug. 22 - RIA Novosti. The RF Ministry of Defense and Sukhoi Company signed a contract for the supply of two fifth-generation fighter aircraft, Su-57, until 2020, the RIA Novosti correspondent reports from the signing ceremony.

    Currently, there are 10 aircraft in trial operation, which are tested in the air and on the ground. By the end of 2020, the military department will have 12 such aircraft, the last two of which will be pre-series.

    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20180822/1527026593.html

    KUBINKA (Moscow region), Aug. 22 - RIA Novosti. The first serial fighter of the fifth generation of the Su-57 will arrive in the VKS in 2019, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko told journalists on Wednesday.

    "I especially wanted to note the signed contract for the Su-57 airplane, the first production aircraft will appear in the Armed Forces next year," he said.

    Krivoruchko noted that the work to improve this machine, which went through all kinds of tests, including combat use, will continue.


    РИА Новости https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20180822/1527038598.html
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    franco

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  franco on Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:17 am

    Another view...

    In his turn, speaking on August 22 at the forum "Army-2018", Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexey Krivoruchko said that a contract was signed for the delivery of the first serial cars Su-57. "The first serial aircraft Su-57 will arrive in the VKS in 2019. Taking into account the received test results, including the positive verification of the aviation complex in Syria, the Ministry of Defense of Russia plans to receive 15 serial cars in the near future, "said Alexey Krivoruchko.

    Speaking about the Su-57 aircraft with the engines of the second stage, the deputy head of the military department noted that the Russian Defense Ministry is awaiting the start of serial deliveries of aircraft with new engines since 2023.

    The bmpd comment. Thus, according to known data, the contract signed for another two Su-57 (T-50) fighters brings the total number of the first serial (actually pre-series) Su-57 fighters to four, acquired in the Russian military aviation market, taking into account the existing "Dry" contract for the first two serial Su-57 (in the form of T-50S), which should be delivered in 2019. The delivery of two additional aircraft is scheduled, presumably, for 2020. In the future, according to available information, it is possible to purchase 11 more Su-57 serial fighters in the form of the first stage in 2021-2022, with plans to switch from 2023 to purchase as small batches of modernized Su-57 aircraft with a second-stage engine.

    Thus, the Ministry of Defense of Russia is quite cautious line for long-term development and development of the Su-57 fighter. As our blog has already written, in all likelihood, really large-scale mass production of the Su-57 for the Armed Forces of Russia will be started beyond the limits of the current State Armaments Program for 2018-2027, that is, not earlier than in 2028-2030.
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:02 am

    franco wrote:Another view...

    In his turn, speaking on August 22 at the forum "Army-2018", Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexey Krivoruchko said that a contract was signed for the delivery of the first serial cars Su-57. "The first serial aircraft Su-57 will arrive in the VKS in 2019. Taking into account the received test results, including the positive verification of the aviation complex in Syria, the Ministry of Defense of Russia plans to receive 15 serial cars in the near future, "said Alexey Krivoruchko.

    Speaking about the Su-57 aircraft with the engines of the second stage, the deputy head of the military department noted that the Russian Defense Ministry is awaiting the start of serial deliveries of aircraft with new engines since 2023.

    The bmpd comment. Thus, according to known data, the contract signed for another two Su-57 (T-50) fighters brings the total number of the first serial (actually pre-series) Su-57 fighters to four, acquired in the Russian military aviation market, taking into account the existing "Dry" contract for the first two serial Su-57 (in the form of T-50S), which should be delivered in 2019. The delivery of two additional aircraft is scheduled, presumably, for 2020. In the future, according to available information, it is possible to purchase 11 more Su-57 serial fighters in the form of the first stage in 2021-2022, with plans to switch from 2023 to purchase as small batches of modernized Su-57 aircraft with a second-stage engine.

    Thus, the Ministry of Defense of Russia is quite cautious line for long-term development and development of the Su-57 fighter. As our blog has already written, in all likelihood, really large-scale mass production of the Su-57 for the Armed Forces of Russia will be started beyond the limits of the current State Armaments Program for 2018-2027, that is, not earlier than in 2028-2030.

    Are they referring to T50-12 and maybe 13? T-50s are prototypes and built accordingly AFAIK dunno
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:55 am

    Bit non-plussed about that targeting pod, I thought it had bomb targeting gear built-in, kinda chunky also

    A targeting pod is a clever idea... it is easier to update... it gives your aircraft better navigation and targeting and aiming capabilities... and if it is not stealthy you don't have to carry one.

    The whole point is that only a few aircraft will likely carry them, especially as they already have onboard targeting equipment, but the example of the Su-34 is an obvious one.

    The Platan system on the Su-34 is capable enough but does not have the latest generation super high tech thermal imager that a podded targeting pod could carry.

    For most targets the Platan system is easily good enough, together with radar targeting at night and in bad weather... only very occasionally a better thermal imager would be useful... and on those occasions an external pod can be used.

    Another factor of course is that with an external pod there is potential for using internal and podded laser target markers which could allow multiple target engagement depending upon the targets involved... for instance some targets could be tracked using radar, while others might give off their own emissions (ie anti radiation missile targets)... it is only the stealthy quiet targets that you need the onboard EO systems and podded systems to hit and much of the time the internal systems would be enough.

    I rather suspect the pod would be carried later on when external weapons are also carried to hit ground targets, though there is no reason why an external pod could not be used against air targets too.

    Hard as it is to imagine... an external targeting pod marking targets with a laser, and having the four wing pylons equipped with S-130 rocket pods for 20 heavy laser guided rockets....

    Work is now under way to develop conceptual models and prototypes, "Yuri Borisov said at the Army 2018 forum.

    They have been down this road before and it was a bit of a waste of time and money, but I guess it makes sense to have a plan B.

    The problem is that the only aircraft that would actually need an EMALS to get airborne is AWACS aircraft as the new fighters they have now can STOAL (ie short take off but arrested landing)... so newer fighters will be even better able to do so... so it is not even a very good plan B alternative.

    Individual fighters on the helicopter decks of Destroyers makes absolutely no sense because a fighter is not a helicopter... so really this new aircraft is only useful for perhaps a couple on a Helicopter carrier and a couple on a fixed wing carrier slightly bigger than the K.

    They better make them cheap and semi disposable because they are fragile with a high crash rate... the only good thing is that experience with Yak-38s is probably the reason the Soviets/Russians have such good ejection systems.

    "A new fleet of aircraft will be needed for all aircraft carriers, which is why various technologies are used that make it possible to provide shortened takeoffs and landings or simply vertical take-off," Borisov said.

    Vertical takeoffs are pointless gimmicks... sure you get airborne, but with a tiny fuel load and a tiny weapon load... what is the point?

    On the official website of the OKB im. Yakovlev noted that the aircraft Yak-141 "far ahead of its time." It also reports that "the government's decision to stop the development program for this aircraft in 1992 was taken at the height of its flight tests." After the termination of tests the Yak-141 was first demonstrated at the Farnborough air show in 1992.

    During landing tests the prototype was coming down and the sea pushed the ship up in what amounted to a heavy landing... the rear wheels collapsed and ruptured a main fuel tank and boom.... odds are the engine likely lost thrust because it sucked in some hot air from the exhaust of one of its engines and stalled.

    It is not a problem that is going to go away...
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:17 pm

    Interesting... from an interview to Yuri Slyusar in Interfax:


    http://www.interfax.ru/interview/626416


    Another expected soon, the plane is su-57. Since the start of the program was more than 15 years, when the military will have experienced, and serial fighters?

    - We signed a contract with the defense Ministry, and begin to deliver planes in VCS already from 2019. It directly to the serial car, which will not take part in the trials, and are already in operation. All we have in the short term, 15 cars will be delivered.

    - Aircraft delivered under Arrow (development work), are now in experimental troop operation and has already been in Syria. How they performed in combat?

    - Indeed, proved. Was in Syria, received a so-called baptism of fire, all problems were solved and the aircraft and armament that was used. Inherent features confirmed. We certainly got a large amount of information - the nuances and subtleties that would be difficult to obtain during the tests and flights here in Russia, in a peaceful environment. This amount of data intensified.
    - That is, in serial form will have some changes according to the results of the Syrian experience?


    - Change of the aircraft are always. The plane, which has ceased to change, has ceased to modernize - it's a dying plane, even if it is not already entered service. There are new weapons, new versions of the software and other various systems. In this way, the meaning of modularity. It suggests the possibility of modernization without replacement of large amounts of iron.

    Su-57 is a plane highly intelligent, automated, to a large extent this flying artificial intelligence, which solves for the pilot a large number of tasks and allow him to focus on combat tasks, where a person is difficult to replace.

    So the plane evolving in time, and during these 15 years, he has greatly evolved. Well, then stop it will not. Su-57 is a promising platform for creating new aircraft in different versions.

    - It was stated that mass production of the su-57 is not planned, apparently it's limited to a small party. This is due to its high cost?

    I think the best answer is given signed a contract with the defense Ministry. But, of course, su-57 has an entirely other possibilities. This requires a smooth transition from fourth generation aircraft to the fifth.

    We are now at the stage of a replacement aircraft of the third generation the fourth aircraft - the su-35, MiG-35, su-30SM, su-34. At a later stage, they will more and more be replaced by aircraft of the fifth generation. To break this sequence from the mass shipments of fifth generation aircraft is probably not quite right. In our opinion, the question here is not so much financial as in ensuring this smooth transition.

    And, in General, we believe that the fifth generation fighter, the su-57 and a light fighter MiG-35 are the best offers in its class in terms of flight performance of aircraft combat capabilities and prices.

    - And what after all is the fundamental difference between the fifth generation from the same su-35, for example?

    - Well, it's very different planes. In the first place - the stealth due to the different aerodynamic layout, the other glider, which is quite well-designed, plus unique, we have developed a radar absorbing coating. This new avionics (avionics - if), the new communications system, new on-Board defense system, new radar that allows you to "see" enemy planes at a greater distance than the fourth generation aircraft, which gives the advantage of launching rockets - they are all new!But most importantly, of course, is new weapons, new missiles, which also have excellent performance.

    - Are there any plans to create a deck version of the su-57? Or an entirely new fighter, vertical takeoff aircraft for the promising Russian aircraft carrier?

    - Some ideas we have on the aircraft vertical takeoff and landing - and from the Soviet era, and for the last time. Work on the ship options continues. From the military need to clear the task that we will perform.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  dino00 on Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:50 pm

    What is the payload of the su-57?
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:31 pm

    dino00 wrote:What is the payload of the su-57?
    If someone knows better they could post it, but my guess is 8 tons.

    Reason I think this is this is the official payload of the Su-35, being a heavy fighter it could probably go well beyond if this was considered very relevant for Russian military. So I assume for the Su-57 requirements are not far from that, which is more than reasonable considering that T-10 and probably T-50 platforms will not need to reserve much of that carrying capacity for external fuel tanks.

    Paralay has it 9 tons both for Su-35 and Su-57
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  dino00 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:38 pm


    Details about the engine of the second stage for the Su-57 are revealed

    The engines of the second stage will receive not only new serial aircraft, but also fighters delivered to the troops.

    The engine of the second stage of the "Type-30" is created in the same dimensions as the one already installed on the Su-57 AL-41F1, while its use on the Su-35 is unlikely
    , the deputy technical director of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft plant told Zvezda named after Gagarin Yuri Kondratiev.

    According to him, the planes that have already arrived in the army will also be replaced by engines.

    "The aircraft will be delivered with the engines of the first stage, because the engine of the second stage is only being tested. But in any case, after their tests and recommendations will be finalized to replace the engine in the operating parts, "- said Kondratiev.

    More:
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201809061155-x4ac.htm
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    GarryB

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:52 am

    This is excellent.

    Normally improved engines transform an aircraft... one of the best examples is with the F-14A and F-14D... the improved engines of the latter meant the D model had the same engine thrust in dry thrust as the A model had in full AB... so the D could take off in dry thrust if it wanted... or take off easier and safer with full power.

    The Su-57 getting its midlife upgraded more powerful engine that is supposed to compensate for weight growth of the aircraft just shortly after it enters service is impressive and will be good for the aircraft...

    If it is lighter and more powerful and with fewer parts and more reliable and all round better as they claim I don't see why they wouldn't put it in Flankers too... the Su-34 might benefit from it too.

    Of course it might be really really expensive, but producing it in greater numbers might actually help with that too... and having more in service should get any bugs worked out faster...

    Being a twin jet engine it would be safer to get it into service in numbers for operational use testing... compared with fitting it in a single engine setup... like on a MiG-23 for example... what a rocket that would be... Smile
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Su-57 getting its midlife upgraded more powerful engine that is supposed to compensate for weight growth of the aircraft just shortly after it enters service is impressive and will be good for the aircraft...

    If it is lighter and more powerful and with fewer parts and more reliable and all round better as they claim I don't see why they wouldn't put it in Flankers too... the Su-34 might benefit from it too.

    Of course it might be really really expensive, but producing it in greater numbers might actually help with that too... and having more in service should get any bugs worked out faster...

    Being a twin jet engine it would be safer to get it into service in numbers for operational use testing... compared with fitting it in a single engine setup... like on a MiG-23 for example... what a rocket that would be... Smile
    That is a positive effect of delaying the serial production of the plane, they can have the whole fleet with the same engines for a reduced cost. I wonder what will they do with the AL-41F-1, both in regards of units used in the T-50 and as an engine model. It should be a bit more advanced than the F-1S on Su-35 but not that much to justify replacing it.

    At the prices they are procuring the 4G fighters it seems unlikely that they will retrofit the Izd. 30. You can work out reliability with time or with money and Russians are patient. Unrealistically speaking, agree that it would be extremely cool on a legacy light single-engine plane. On a F-16 it would be insane, maybe they should buy some cheap airframes somewhere and make a Russian version (and of course sell it abroad cheaper than the US), now they are under all kinds of sanctions there is little revenge to fear lol1
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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  dino00 on Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:05 am


    The Su-57 fighter will receive an ultra-long-range air-to-air missile

    The aircraft will carry an air-to-air missile R-37M of long range on an external suspension.

    The fifth-generation fighter Su-57 (PAK FA) will receive the latest ultra-long-range R-37M missile. This was reported by Interfax with reference to Boris Obnosov, General Director of Tactical Missile Arms Corporation.

    "Well, yes, of course, on the external suspension," said Obnosov.

    The P-37M product is 4.06 meters long and weighs more than 500 kilograms. The maximum launch range is about 300 kilometers, the height of the targets being hit is from 15 meters to 25 kilometers.

    More
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201809261047-6tvm.htm

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