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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

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    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:22 am

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201811131419-5mml.htm

    Surpasses all analogues: the developer revealed the features of the engine Su-57

    the General Designer-Director “OKB im. A.M. Cradles "Yevgeny Marchukov.

    “I would say that this generation 5+ is slightly ahead of the fifth one. It is to this generation that the engine corresponds to specific gravity, specific consumption and specific gravity, ”Marchukov said. Marchukov noted that the engine surpasses all foreign analogues in terms of specific gravity, is a completely new product and has nothing to do with the engine of the Su-35 fighter.
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    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:23 am

    what does specific gravity means , I think its the translation error
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    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:19 am

    Austin wrote:what does specific gravity means , I think its the translation error

    It reads as "specific thrust" at least once on the site according to Chrome translator. I suspect its a product of an ignorant and careless journalist.
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:55 pm

    It seems "specific thrust" indeed. Remembering that in the last interview with Marchukov it was specified that this metric is to be understood as thrust / flow. If this was related to dry settings it would mean the engine has a higher operating temperature and/or lower BPR than F119, meaning superior technology and confirming VCE design, since in the other hand we know that SFC is similar to that of a AL-31F, but I think this is considered with A/B in operation so it is not that clear to me how to make conclusions about the engine core. Some engines seem to have more A/B thrust than they should if you only consider thrust augmentation due to the amount of bypass air being used in the afterburner (F135) and others have more (AL-41F1), so it is not clear to me what is more efficient to create wet thrust for a given engine diameter, a higher or a smaller BPR. If anyone can clarify it would be great
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:07 pm

    «Я бы сказал, что это поколение 5+, немного опережающее пятое. Именно этому поколению соответствует двигатель по удельной тяге, удельному расходу и удельному весу», - рассказал Марчуков.


    1) specific thrust

    2) (Brake ?)-specific fuel consumption

    3) specific weight
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    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:28 am

    LMFS wrote:Su-57: an innovative solution TsAGI

    In early 2010, the air first flew the prototype aircraft T-50. Russian multi-role fighter of the fifth generation, developed by OKB imeni P. O. Sukhoi within the framework of the project "PAK FA" (Promising aviation complex tactical aviation), now is called su-57.

    In the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute named after Professor N. E. Zhukovsky new aircraft started to be developed in the framework of scientific research in 1999. Professionals leading center of aviation science in cooperation with the Sukhoi design Bureau was to create a fighter with a number of unique features that have properties, the implementation of which are mutually contradictory. It was necessary to develop aircraft system with functions of fighter, interceptor and attack aircraft. The high combat effectiveness of the PAK FA should be provided with technical solutions in the field of aerodynamic layout, stability and controllability, control systems, propulsion, radar and infrared visibility, avionics and weapons.

    Together with employees of the Sukhoi design Bureau and TSAGI scientists have developed the aerodynamic shape of the aircraft that meets the requirements of the fifth generation fighter. Were created not having analogues in the world adjustable stealth intake, which ensures steady operation of the engine on all flight modes. The specialists of the Institute developed a control system for maneuvering the aircraft is statically unstable in the lateral and longitudinal control channels. Ensuring the strength of the airframe with the widespread use of new and composite materials is another challenge that scientists TSAGI has successfully solved. The result was requirements met to the weighted design parameters of the aviation system, the weight of perfection of the aircraft. In a short time carried out work in the areas of safety from flutter, aeroelasticity, design and shimmy of the wheels.

    Specialists of the Institute conducted a unique research design the layout of a fighter. In wind tunnels of TSAGI were investigated 28 different models of aircraft; the total number of trials exceeded 32 thousand. Successfully completed testing of new materials and design elements.

    After the first flight of the prototype studies for improvement of flight of the machine continued. So, over the next nine years in TSAGI refined the aerodynamic characteristics of the complex were compared with the results of flight tests, worked out the safety of the new aircraft armament. In the process of preparing and conducting flight tests were carried out frequency of tests all created for this aircraft.

    http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/news/4264/

    Can any one in simple English help us understand based on what TSAGI said about PAK-FA layout , Unstable aerodynamic characteristics etc

    How is this design different from Eurofighter , Rafale or F-22 Design approach. Any key differentiating factor and how PAK-FA could be better or not so better compared to these designs ?
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    Post  marcellogo on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:57 am

    Austin wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Su-57: an innovative solution TsAGI

    In early 2010, the air first flew the prototype aircraft T-50. Russian multi-role fighter of the fifth generation, developed by OKB imeni P. O. Sukhoi within the framework of the project "PAK FA" (Promising aviation complex tactical aviation), now is called su-57.

    In the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute named after Professor N. E. Zhukovsky new aircraft started to be developed in the framework of scientific research in 1999. Professionals leading center of aviation science in cooperation with the Sukhoi design Bureau was to create a fighter with a number of unique features that have properties, the implementation of which are mutually contradictory. It was necessary to develop aircraft system with functions of fighter, interceptor and attack aircraft. The high combat effectiveness of the PAK FA should be provided with technical solutions in the field of aerodynamic layout, stability and controllability, control systems, propulsion, radar and infrared visibility, avionics and weapons.

    Together with employees of the Sukhoi design Bureau and TSAGI scientists have developed the aerodynamic shape of the aircraft that meets the requirements of the fifth generation fighter. Were created not having analogues in the world adjustable stealth intake, which ensures steady operation of the engine on all flight modes. The specialists of the Institute developed a control system for maneuvering the aircraft is statically unstable in the lateral and longitudinal control channels. Ensuring the strength of the airframe with the widespread use of new and composite materials is another challenge that scientists TSAGI has successfully solved. The result was requirements met to the weighted design parameters of the aviation system, the weight of perfection of the aircraft. In a short time carried out work in the areas of safety from flutter, aeroelasticity, design and shimmy of the wheels.

    Specialists of the Institute conducted a unique research design the layout of a fighter. In wind tunnels of TSAGI were investigated 28 different models of aircraft; the total number of trials exceeded 32 thousand. Successfully completed testing of new materials and design elements.

    After the first flight of the prototype studies for improvement of flight of the machine continued. So, over the next nine years in TSAGI refined the aerodynamic characteristics of the complex were compared with the results of flight tests, worked out the safety of the new aircraft armament. In the process of preparing and conducting flight tests were carried out frequency of tests all created for this aircraft.

    http://www.tsagi.ru/pressroom/news/4264/

    Can any one in simple English help us understand based on what TSAGI said about PAK-FA layout , Unstable aerodynamic characteristics etc

    How is this design different from Eurofighter , Rafale or F-22 Design approach.  Any key differentiating factor and how PAK-FA could be better or not so better compared to these designs ?

    Adjustable stealth intakes probably means that they are both variable and stealth ones something that no other VLO or LO plane got (F/A-18E and F-22 got fixed intakes, F-35 and J-20 have DSI).

    With the exception of the horizontal and vertical unstable thing, that I would list just as a redundant specification, nothing on the article is actually a new, just a confirmation of what they always stated and that just a bunch of 'murica's fanboys actually contested.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:00 pm

    An interview with Manturov, longer of course but |I only quoted Su-57 part. Would it be possible to export Su-57? This would be awesome, guaranteed client for 30 next years + blocking US form selling own stuff sales yes sir yes sir yes sir



    The head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation spoke about the bestsellers of Russian aviation in the arms market, the export prospects of the Su-57 and potential customers of the MS-21 abroad

    https://www.interfax.ru/interview/655441

    It was reported about plans to bring the Su-57 to the export market - does it have potential buyers in the countries of Southeast Asia? How would you generally evaluate the export prospects of the Su-57? Will he be able to withstand competition with fifth-generation American fighters?

    - First of all, we are focused on meeting the needs of the Ministry of Defense. At the same time, the fifth-generation Russian combat aircraft has outstanding characteristics, and this makes it possible to consider export prospects in the future. For example, we are open to working with India on this program. India is traditionally the largest partner of Russia in the aircraft industry. This trend should continue in the future.

    As for competition, when acquiring such weapons, not only the price or individual characteristics of each particular aircraft are considered. Although these are very important parameters, we have something to offer here. Nevertheless, one of the most important circumstances in the arms market is the level of confidence on the part of the buyer to the supplier. In this regard, Russia is pursuing a very consistent and pragmatic policy, not trying to connect unrelated things, without setting itself the task of influencing other countries through sanctions or some other similar measures.
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    Post  Isos on Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:15 pm

    When are they going to deliver the first su-57 ? It was planed for 2019.
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    Post  George1 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:03 pm

    Isos wrote:When are they going to deliver the first su-57 ? It was planed for 2019.

    Russia’s Southern Military District to receive first batch of Su-57 aircraft in 2020

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1050431

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    Post  dino00 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:06 pm

    George1 wrote:
    Isos wrote:When are they going to deliver the first su-57 ? It was planed for 2019.

    Russia’s Southern Military District to receive first batch of Su-57 aircraft in 2020

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1050431


    I think (and hope) the Southern Military District was not the first to get the su-57.
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    Post  LMFS on Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:22 pm

    It was stated that the first unit would come this year and the second in 2020

    "If we speak about the Su-57 program, we are today at the stage of manufacturing the first serial panes. In 2018, we completed the manufacture and the delivery of a batch of prototype planes that are now undergoing trials. Under the existing contract with the Defense Ministry, we have two planes in the production process, with the timeframe for the delivery of the first aircraft in 2019 and the second plane in 2020," the Sukhoi deputy chief executive said.

    "I am confident that we will cope with the task and the first serial-produced plane will be delivered this year," he added.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1046407
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:25 pm

    Rostec intends to present the export version of the su-57 at an Airshow in Dubai

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/https/iz.ru/861767/2019-03-28/rostekh-nameren-prezentovat-eksportnuiu-versiiu-su-57-na-aviashou-v-dubae
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:10 pm

    LMFS wrote:Rostec intends to present the export version of the su-57 at an Airshow in Dubai

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/https/iz.ru/861767/2019-03-28/rostekh-nameren-prezentovat-eksportnuiu-versiiu-su-57-na-aviashou-v-dubae

    Hopefull it's a monkey version

    It would be truly hilarious if Chinese grabbed an order for it now after Indians have been dragging their asses and been little twats about it lol1
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    Post  medo on Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:12 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Rostec intends to present the export version of the su-57 at an Airshow in Dubai

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/https/iz.ru/861767/2019-03-28/rostekh-nameren-prezentovat-eksportnuiu-versiiu-su-57-na-aviashou-v-dubae

    Hopefull it's a monkey version

    It would be truly hilarious if Chinese grabbed an order for it now after Indians have been dragging their asses and been little twats about it lol1

    It would be even more interesting if Pakistan order them. That would be a real pain in the ass for India. Twisted Evil
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:16 am

    medo wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Rostec intends to present the export version of the su-57 at an Airshow in Dubai

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/https/iz.ru/861767/2019-03-28/rostekh-nameren-prezentovat-eksportnuiu-versiiu-su-57-na-aviashou-v-dubae

    Hopefull it's a monkey version

    It would be truly hilarious if Chinese grabbed an order for it now after Indians have been dragging their asses and been little twats about it lol1

    It would be even more interesting if Pakistan order them. That would be a real pain in the ass for India. Twisted Evil

    Maybe the Honey Moon period is over with Trumpet as prez, because before they were slowly burying Rus-Ind relations, but because of the shaved Orangutans trade war, they're now going out their way to buy Venezuelan Oil and willing to get sanctioned for buying Iranian Oil and S-400's....they even stand to completely nullify their encirclement of China. I think will buy Su-57's off the shelf but with no foreign software/hardware installed, whatever leverage they had is gone.
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:56 am

    The 2nd stage engines for instance... I would not sell them to the Chinese unless they pay a REAL fortune. Actually many of the other features, like the intellectual support assistant, RAM coatings, EW and RADAR are not really for export. Only to get that airframe should cost really expensive. And then, Russia would also guarantee also the selling of the weapons designed for internal carriage. Otherwise, Su-35s for everyone Razz
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:12 am

    I'd say level of "monkeyness" of export also depends on strategic value of Su-57 export contract. Russia would not offer something that is not going to sell.
    Besides if tomorrow say India signs contract. Passing docs/tech building factories is 10years project?

    Then Russia starts testing of 6gen fighters.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:16 am

    They could tailor the model to the customer... in fact some customers might want foreign products in their aircraft... why not... a chance for Russia to get their hands on foreign hardware and have a play while integrating it... never hurts to look.

    For a country like Turkey they could offer to let Turkey make a lot of the components they are not ready to export yet... hell they could probably make quite a few bits and pieces for other export sales too.

    Would solve their issues with the 100 F-35s the Americans don't want to sell them...

    The point is that by making an export model with monkey Russian parts or third party components, or MiG-35/Su-35 and MiG-29M2/Su-30M, they will have a range of aircraft they can sell that would cover the range of prices a customer is likely to want to pay from relatively cheap 4+ gen, through 4++ to what equates to -5 gen... for a fraction of the cost of developing it themselves...

    Keep all the best stuff for themselves and use the enormous money profit on export models to fun upgrades and replacements...
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:They could tailor the model to the customer... in fact some customers might want foreign products in their aircraft... why not... a chance for Russia to get their hands on foreign hardware and have a play while integrating it... never hurts to look.

    For a country like Turkey they could offer to let Turkey make a lot of the components they are not ready to export yet... hell they could probably make quite a few bits and pieces for other export sales too.
    Well, the Turkish case may have looked far fetched some time ago but US congress is looking seriously into blocking the transfer, Erdogan is challenging them to cut the crap and finally expel Turkey from the program so who knows. Turkey has lots of Western tech and may provide the avionics for the plane, they do AESAs, mission computers and many many other things, they could customize the plane almost completely. Best thing would be to help them develop the engines on their own, in the end Rolls Royce may not be the most reliable partner for the engines of the TF-X either and the Izd. 30 is too advanced IMO to be given away.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:56 am

    Wouldn't it be hilarious if, when the US stops sales of F-35 to Turkey that Turkey basically says to France and Germany... lets buy the Su-57 shell and fill it full of our engines and radar and avionics and make a heavy 5th gen plane that is better than the F-35 and much much cheaper and sell it to countries that realise the F-35 is a dog but had no alternative up until now...

    Of course France and Germany and Turkey working on a single project is like having three Gordon Ramseys... each speaking a different language... why not add Italy to the mix too...
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:01 am

    GarryB wrote:Of course France and Germany and Turkey working on a single project is like having three Gordon Ramseys... each speaking a different language... why not add Italy to the mix too...

    So too many chefs? Wink
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:02 am

    The fifth-generation Russian fighter has an export passport

    https://ria.ru/20190329/1552213182.html

    MOSCOW, March 29 - RIA News. A promising front-line aviation complex (PAK FA) already has an export passport, the government is considering a document due to the name change from T-50 to Su-57, an aviation industry source told RIA Novosti.
    Earlier, Janes’s publication, citing Viktor Kladov, director of international cooperation and regional policy at Rostec, reported that Rostec and United Aircraft Building Corporation (UAC) had transferred to the Russian government all the necessary documents for obtaining permission to export a fifth-generation fighter Su- 57E. According to the newspaper, the decision may be taken by the Russian leadership in the coming weeks.

    The PAK FA already has an export passport. Currently, the government is considering a document due to the change of the name of the complex from T-50 to Su-57,” the agency’s source said.
    Su-57 (formerly PAK FA, T-50) is a fifth-generation Russian fighter designed to destroy all types of air, ground and surface targets. First flew in 2010, the first production aircraft to be transferred to the Russian Aerospace System in 2019.

    ok now check your local dealer for brand new Su-57E
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:20 am

    GarryB wrote:Wouldn't it be hilarious if, when the US stops sales of F-35 to Turkey that Turkey basically says to France and Germany... lets buy the Su-57 shell and fill it full of our engines and radar and avionics and make a heavy 5th gen plane that is better than the F-35 and much much cheaper and sell it to countries that realise the F-35 is a dog but had no alternative up until now...

    Of course France and Germany and Turkey working on a single project is like having three Gordon Ramseys... each speaking a different language... why not add Italy to the mix too...
    Hahaha that would be mad!

    Turkey already has advanced plans for the TF-X, but actually using the Su-57 airframe instead would be much better. They could unify their fleet in one single true multirole plane at a fraction of the development cost and still have the stuffing of their own liking, pretty much a "do it yourself 5G fighter kit" from Sukhoi Razz
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    Post  marcellogo on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:16 am

    GarryB wrote:Wouldn't it be hilarious if, when the US stops sales of F-35 to Turkey that Turkey basically says to France and Germany... lets buy the Su-57 shell and fill it full of our engines and radar and avionics and make a heavy 5th gen plane that is better than the F-35 and much much cheaper and sell it to countries that realise the F-35 is a dog but had no alternative up until now...

    Of course France and Germany and Turkey working on a single project is like having three Gordon Ramseys... each speaking a different language... why not add Italy to the mix too...

    Well, if it was about real cooking adding Italy would be a very smart move!

    Out of jokes, only thing that's needed would be having a political class with a dorsal spine.
    So,something akin to a miracle as far Europe is involved. cry

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