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    PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:48 am

    It's probably going to be a total of 250 aircraft overall. Or maybe just 200.

    First 12 has been mentioned to death what they are - training and introduction for pilots. You should know this by now if you read the thread.

    It will end up like Su-35 - build while ago, introduced much later cause of need.....

    At this point, like Armata, it will be token forces and Russia will end up forever "upgrading to 70% modern forces" just because they want to save a few Rubles.

    Unless Borisov is trying to play difficult in order to get producers to reduce overall costs, which the manufacturers have done to save internal cash, but still charging same for end product.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:37 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:

    yes, tho this add doubts into 0.3 sqm.  as it introduce surface discontinuities.  Plus i believe outer pylons also introduce discontinuities due to different materials.

    It is covered in the same RAM coat and angled to bounce radar.  It is an impediment but the nose of Rafale is smaller than other aircraft in its class to begin with. The outer pylons are housing Mica missiles that are made of carbon composites.


    Last edited by Vladimir79 on Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Stealthflanker

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Stealthflanker on Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:35 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:

    It is covered in the same RAM coat and angled to bounce radar.  It is an impediment but the nose of Rafale is smaller than other aircraft in its class to begin with.


    still, it's introduce discontinuities.

    Nose tho is a different subject. You can have small nose but if the antenna inside is oriented straight forward, you can still have considerable frontal aspect RCS, thus why we see JSF AESA or Superhornet AESA canted bit upward. What one can do is to treat the edge of the nose..thus why we see pyramidal stuff near the edge of Su-57 or MiG-29K's. Do we have same thing for Rafale or do the structure of antenna itself designed to absorb radar.

    On the bottom line, I found it's hard for Rafale or others like Typhoon (they do offer Stealth kit to Indonesia BTW) to go Tomahawk RCS in X-Band. Maybe if they fly clean we can see it but with their combat configuration.. kinda hard to believe it.

    mnztr

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  mnztr on Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:53 pm

    Who knows what the probe is made of, maybe it has some exotic coating and is composite. I wonder if a field removable probe would be better, when max stealth is requred they just take it off and put a panel over. When the mission is lower risk and they need the capabilty, then they install it.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  dino00 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:47 am

    The film crew of the "Military Acceptance" went to the Kubinka suburb near Moscow to show the exposition of the "Army-2018" forum first. Viewers of the program will visit the closed show of the newest modification of the Su-57


    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201808171058-rfbf.htm
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:39 am

    https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/110885/

    OBC based on the principles of integrated modular avionics weapons systems for the I & C su-57
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    Luq man

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Luq man on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:07 am

    India, Russia continue joint development of 5th generation fighter jet

    "I hope very much our talks will be ultimately crowned by the designing stage and we will develop our joint fifth generation aircraft," UAC CEO said

    India is not withdrawing from the joint project with Russia for the development of a fifth generation fighter jet, Yuri Slyusar, president of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), said on Sunday.

    "We continue to discuss with India joint development of a fifth generation fighter jet. The topic is not closed. It has been said that India is withdrawing from this project. No, they are not," he said in an interview with the Deistvuyushchiye Litsa (Political Actors) program on the Rossiya-1 television channel.

    "I hope very much our talks will be ultimately crowned by the designing stage and we will develop our joint fifth generation aircraft," he added.

    India’s Economic Times newspaper said earlier that India planned to withdraw from the joint project with Russia for the development of a fifth generation fighter jet as India’s Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) claimed there was every possibility to develop corresponding technologies independently.

    An agreement on such a project was reached in 2007. The fifth generation fighter jet is being developed on the basis of the Russian Su-57 fighter jet with account of the Indian side’s technical requirements. It is planned that the launch customer will be India’s Air Forces. Later on, such jets will be sold to third countries.

    http://tass.com/defense/1017788
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    Luq man

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Luq man on Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:58 am

    T-50-5 with T220 Targeting pod


    source: http://www.strizhi.ru/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1534688073/0#0

    Tingsay

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Tingsay on Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:45 pm

    Luq man wrote:India, Russia continue joint development of 5th generation fighter jet

    "I hope very much our talks will be ultimately crowned by the designing stage and we will develop our joint fifth generation aircraft," UAC CEO said

    India is not withdrawing from the joint project with Russia for the development of a fifth generation fighter jet, Yuri Slyusar, president of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), said on Sunday.

    "We continue to discuss with India joint development of a fifth generation fighter jet. The topic is not closed. It has been said that India is withdrawing from this project. No, they are not," he said in an interview with the Deistvuyushchiye Litsa (Political Actors) program on the Rossiya-1 television channel.

    "I hope very much our talks will be ultimately crowned by the designing stage and we will develop our joint fifth generation aircraft," he added.

    India’s Economic Times newspaper said earlier that India planned to withdraw from the joint project with Russia for the development of a fifth generation fighter jet as India’s Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) claimed there was every possibility to develop corresponding technologies independently.

    An agreement on such a project was reached in 2007. The fifth generation fighter jet is being developed on the basis of the Russian Su-57 fighter jet with account of the Indian side’s technical requirements. It is planned that the launch customer will be India’s Air Forces. Later on, such jets will be sold to third countries.

    http://tass.com/defense/1017788

    Does Russia really wanna go through this? Thought they passed the Indian procurement headache down to France?
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    Luq man

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Luq man on Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:14 pm

    Tingsay wrote:
    Luq man wrote:India, Russia continue joint development of 5th generation fighter jet

    "I hope very much our talks will be ultimately crowned by the designing stage and we will develop our joint fifth generation aircraft," UAC CEO said

    India is not withdrawing from the joint project with Russia for the development of a fifth generation fighter jet, Yuri Slyusar, president of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), said on Sunday.

    "We continue to discuss with India joint development of a fifth generation fighter jet. The topic is not closed. It has been said that India is withdrawing from this project. No, they are not," he said in an interview with the Deistvuyushchiye Litsa (Political Actors) program on the Rossiya-1 television channel.

    "I hope very much our talks will be ultimately crowned by the designing stage and we will develop our joint fifth generation aircraft," he added.

    India’s Economic Times newspaper said earlier that India planned to withdraw from the joint project with Russia for the development of a fifth generation fighter jet as India’s Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) claimed there was every possibility to develop corresponding technologies independently.

    An agreement on such a project was reached in 2007. The fifth generation fighter jet is being developed on the basis of the Russian Su-57 fighter jet with account of the Indian side’s technical requirements. It is planned that the launch customer will be India’s Air Forces. Later on, such jets will be sold to third countries.

    http://tass.com/defense/1017788

    Does Russia really wanna go through this? Thought they passed the Indian procurement headache down to  France?
    France doesn't produce any 5th generation fighter and India has an procurement need for 5th generation fighter jets since their neighbor China is in the process of final development with their 5th gen jets. Any joint work with India for an Indian Su-57 variant will come to benefit for the domestic Russian fighter (e.g. better stealth capability, faceted IRST, minor design changes, ect) just like the Su-30mki resulted in the Su-30SM for Russia. The only downside is that negotiating with Indian officials is a real pain in the ass as the French have already experienced.
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Hole on Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:05 pm

    Better stealth from cooperation with India? Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Luq man

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Luq man on Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:19 pm

    Hole wrote:Better stealth from cooperation with India? Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Based on India's specific needs the Su-57 might evolve into a stealthier airframe by wich then Russian engineers can apply to the domestic jets if VKS requires it.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:02 pm

    So, further evidence the program is being cancelled: contract for the first batch of Su-57 to be signed at 2018 Army forum

    http://tass.com/defense/1017791

    Sad for the ladies and gentlemen that jumped through the window following recent "news" that the program was going to be cancelled. Life goes on for the rest of us... Rolling Eyes
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:11 pm

    The FGFA not dead...? Article on Sputnik:

    KHABAROVSK (Russia) (Sputnik) - Moscow and New Delhi are going ahead with discussions on the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) project despite media reports on India’s withdrawal, Yury Slyusar, the president of the Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), said on Sunday.

    "We have not closed the topic, we continue to discuss with India the joint development of the fifth generation [aircraft]. The topic is not closed. It was reported quite intensely that the Indians are exiting this project – they are not withdrawing from it, they just ask a really large number of questions, to which, in our opinion, we give exhaustive answers. As before, we proceed from the premise that the amount of technology that we are ready to transmit to India, no other country is not ready to transfer," Slyusar told the Rossyia 1 broadcaster.

    First Stage of Tests of Russian 5th Generation PAK FA Fighter Jet Ends
    In April, Director for International Cooperation at Russia's Rostec Viktor Kladov told Sputnik that Moscow had not received any notification from India on New Delhi's alleged withdrawal from FGFA, thus denying media reports about India's intention to leave the project.

    The project implies that India will not only acquire new generation fighter jets, but will also launch their licensed production, according to the executive. Slyusar expressed his hope that the sides would switch to the design stage soon.

    Under the Russian-Indian FGFA project, both sides would invest $4 billion each at the developmental stage, while the total cost of constructing 127 fighter jets is estimated to amount to $25 billion. In the project, the Russian side is represented by the Sukhoi aircraft manufacturer and the Indian side by Hindustan Aeronautics. The initial FGFA agreement was signed in 2007, the final agreement, which will include the project's financing conditions, is yet to be signed.

    Yep, nothing surprising here.  The $@#&Fing wobble-heads are simply sh*t-canning the Su-57 solely to strengthen their hand in commercial negotiations, ie how much it will cost them and how much Russian-origin technology they can pocket along the way.  This is the way the Indians always roll.  Endless nit-picking about details and constant demands over getting more for less.  I've had first hand experiences of these clowns on past projects, and for someone with a Dilbert-esque engineering outlook with zero tolerance for BS, its an excruciating process.  I feel sorry for Sukhoi and Rus gov officials who must deal with the shit-show behind closed doors.

    Anyway, that will hopefully put a damper on the HATOstani fake-exuberance about "failed FGA" or "cancelled Su-57" russia (but I kinda doubt it)...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:31 pm


    Oh will they just put those freeloaders​ on ignore list until monkey version of Su-57 ready and then​ send them the pricelist with options

    I am not interested in another 10 seasons of Bollywood soap opera about this HAL fantasy project

    Let French deal with them, they wanted in on the contract anyway...
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:45 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Oh will they just put those freeloaders​ on ignore list until monkey version of Su-57 ready and then​ send them the pricelist with options

    I am not interested in another 10 seasons of Bollywood soap opera about this HAL fantasy project

    Let French deal with them, they wanted in on the contract anyway...

    hahaha!!!  Well said! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    George1

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  George1 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:52 am

    The suspended container 101KS-H was developed for the Su-57 (T-50) aircraft of the JSC "Production Association" Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant "named after ES Yalamov" as a compound part of the optico-electronic integrated system (OEIS) 101KS of this aircraft for R&D "Atoll". Officially, the 101KS-H container is designated as a "multi-channel optical sighting system of a hanging type intended for the detection and identification of ground targets, as well as for ensuring the use of aircraft means of destruction on them."





    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3310686.html
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:47 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Oh will they just put those freeloaders​ on ignore list until monkey version of Su-57 ready and then​ send them the pricelist with options

    I am not interested in another 10 seasons of Bollywood soap opera about this HAL fantasy project

    Let French deal with them, they wanted in on the contract anyway...

    Why do you want to put the specialists for dealing with Indians out of work? They have families to support!
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:38 am

    Hole wrote:Why do you want to put the specialists for dealing with Indians out of work? They have families to support!

    ..because they tend to die early, suffer much higher rates of depression and suicide, and often turn to alcohol or narcotics. No-one should have to deal with this sort of sh&t in ones short time on this earthly rock. A civilized Christian society acts to protect its vulnerable citizens... Very Happy
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:52 am

    Then send them on vaccation (paid by the state) in a nice, warm country with friendly people like... Iraq. There they could relax. Cool
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    JohninMK

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:44 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Yep, nothing surprising here.  The $@#&Fing wobble-heads are simply sh*t-canning the Su-57 solely to strengthen their hand in commercial negotiations, ie how much it will cost them and how much Russian-origin technology they can pocket along the way.  This is the way the Indians always roll.  Endless nit-picking about details and constant demands over getting more for less.  I've had first hand experiences of these clowns on past projects, and for someone with a Dilbert-esque engineering outlook with zero tolerance for BS, its an excruciating process.  I feel sorry for Sukhoi and Rus gov officials who must deal with the shit-show behind closed doors.

    A gold * for mentioning Dilbert. Laughing

    hoom

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  hoom on Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:57 am

    Interesting, I guess French/US offers turned out inferior afterall unshaven

    Bit non-plussed about that targeting pod, I thought it had bomb targeting gear built-in, kinda chunky also Suspect
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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:09 am

    I don't know if it was already posted here. But nice pics of Pak-fa stealth work. We can see on the last one, a prototype flying with radar reflectors which means they have hard time tracking it during test with normal radars from airports.







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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  LMFS on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:53 am

    hoom wrote:Bit non-plussed about that targeting pod, I thought it had bomb targeting gear built-in, kinda chunky also Suspect

    Don't see a big problem with having an external pod, even when I admit that would be the "ideal" option. Those are for guiding ordnance being very close to the target, record the effects of the attack and so on. For that you would be already within detection and engagement range of enemy AD irrespective of the pod, so the external unit does not make any relevant difference in that regard and allows to save the costs and weight on the aircraft. The thing weights like 200 kg so its not something you want to carry all the time. Besides, Russians do not use laser guided bombs that often, there are many guided and unguided weapons for the job, plus a bunch of stand-off ones, which are the proper option for dealing with well defended targets.

    Anyone can comment on the possibility of using the IRST for detection and maybe attack of ground objects? It has some (reduced) visibility over the lower hemisphere AFAIK + IR channels + laser rangefinder at least. There is also an interesting additional EO sensor in the PAK-FA, the 101KS-P, whose capabilities I have not seen explained in depth.

    Austin

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    Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #5

    Post  Austin on Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:31 am

    Russia began work on creating a vertical takeoff plane, it can take up to 10 years - Deputy Prime Minister Borisov
    08/21/2018 13:31:00

    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=488563

    Kubinka (Moscow region). 21 August. INTERFAX-AVN - The work on creating a vertical takeoff plane began in Russia in 2017, Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov told reporters.
    "This work is really included in the State Arms Program, it is being conducted on behalf of the Supreme Commander." Work is now under way to develop conceptual models and prototypes, "Yuri Borisov said at the Army 2018 forum.

    "Conceptually, such work has already been carried out in the Defense Ministry since last year, the timing is determined by the technological cycle of creation, as a rule, this is 7-10 years, if we go into series." This is a new aircraft, "the Deputy Prime Minister said.

    He called such a technique the future of carrier aviation. "A new fleet of aircraft will be needed for all aircraft carriers, which is why various technologies are used that make it possible to provide shortened takeoffs and landings or simply vertical take-off," Borisov said.

    In December 2017, Sergey Korotkov, General Designer and Vice President for Innovation of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), told Interfax that the corporation has a scientific and technological basis for equipping prospective aircraft carriers with vertical take-off aircraft.

    "Indeed, such conversations are underway (about plans for the creation of vertical take-off aircraft - IF) .We still had good groundwork in Soviet times, I believe that these developments of Yakovlev's OKB are even now quite advanced. the corresponding order from the side of the Ministry of Defense, "- said S. Korotkov.

    He recalled that the design bureau them. Yakovlev developed prototypes of such aircraft and began their flight tests, but these works were suspended in the 1990s.
    "But these technologies for vertical takeoff are unique and are still of interest from the point of view of their application," the general designer believes.

    At the same time, he stressed that if the RF Defense Ministry orders to develop vertical take-off aircraft to equip prospective aircraft carriers, it will be necessary to conduct these works taking into account today's realities, since "something done in the past becomes mediocre today, eventually loses its relevance".

    "But everything depends on the doctrine of the Defense Ministry: if they see the need and need for this (the development of new aircraft for aircraft carriers - IF), then such a task will be put," said S. Korotkov.

    In August, during the forum "Army-2017" Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov announced plans of the department in the region of 2025 to begin construction of a new aircraft carrier and the creation of an aircraft for him, possibly with a short take-off or vertical take-off.

    At the end of November, he confirmed that the new state armament program (SPP) for 2018-2027 involves the development and laying of modern aircraft carriers.

    "Speaking specifically about aircraft-carrying cruisers, this is the end of the program, we plan to develop and lay down modern aircraft carriers," Borisov told journalists.
    He said that the project of the GPO laid down the work on creating a vertical takeoff aircraft to equip the new aircraft carriers.

    "It would be logical to assume that during that time those models, meaning the MiG-29 and Su-33, will morally become obsolete, and in 10 years, of course, the creation of a new aircraft will be required. or from a vertical take-off, "said Yury Borisov, answering the question whether work is being done to create a vertical takeoff aircraft for aircraft carriers.

    The Yakovlev Design Bureau is the only Russian aircraft designer who has experience in developing vertical takeoff and landing aircraft. Since the mid-1970s, the design bureau has been developing a multi-purpose supersonic all-weather decked aircraft for vertical / short takeoff and landing Yak-141. He made the first flight in 1987, and in 1991 for the first time landed on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

    Yak-141 was designed to provide cover for carrier-based communications from enemy aircraft, to gain and retain air supremacy, to conduct near maneuver and ranged combat, and to strike ground and surface targets.

    On the official website of the OKB im. Yakovlev noted that the aircraft Yak-141 "far ahead of its time." It also reports that "the government's decision to stop the development program for this aircraft in 1992 was taken at the height of its flight tests." After the termination of tests the Yak-141 was first demonstrated at the Farnborough air show in 1992.

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