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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5

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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:53 am


    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 15 DyPKr-jX0AAjDaj?format=jpg&name=900x900
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:04 am

    WTF US needs repaint F-16 again? DAT is trolling lol1 ` lol1 lol1
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:12 am

    That frost bluish/white is sexy as hell if I say so myself.
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    Post  DerWolf on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:49 pm

    Is there any pic of Su-57 with type 30 engines?
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:12 am

    Only with one engine, prototype two is being used for tests
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 15 Wedcxm10
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:08 am

    Kinda odd we haven't seen more pics or promo's of it.
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    Post  marcellogo on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:47 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:Kinda odd we haven't seen more pics or promo's of it.

    Because they are not interested in showing it: the things is actually in full military control and they have not any convenience in showing it around.
    Plane is actually in phase of first serial production: it means the Sukhoi design bureau is in the last phase of its own direct involvement in the project and so has not any need to push for it further, while KnAAPO has not serial assembly plant ready so either them have no interest of promote something that's not ready and that they cannot actually produce.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:46 pm

    The Su-57 is shown enough and demoed (for one reason or another) enough almost every week (at least once a month). I'm talking about the prototype with the product-30 engine specifically.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:16 am

    Maybe they are busy actually testing it, or perhaps it has other things in test that they don't want photographed... they control what is getting photographed and can decide which photos to release.

    They also control the schedule for testing so they might be testing at times and from places where unofficial photographers can't get good photos so they aren't posting the ones they do get of this specific topic.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:36 am

    Yeah if they're withholding they probably have their reasons. Maybe it's just coincidental that other prototypes get the airtime.

    Just wanted to see if they're testing under twin config, and not a solo.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:13 pm


    Why China Loves and Hates Russia's Su-57 Stealth Fighter

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-china-loves-and-hates-russias-su-57-stealth-fighter-43047



    National Interest articles by Peck and Episkopos are surprisingly light on BS

    Stuff written by Axe however will instantly cause brain damage but fortunately you can identify those by headlines alone
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    Post  Hole on Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:23 pm

    Without reading the article I try and give an answer to the question: China loves the Su-57 because it is a cool and capable design, but they hate it, because it will be expensive to buy.
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:42 pm

    a lot of bias here in these articles. I personally am sceptical about stealth aircraft most of the time there not really needed and when I heard Russia wanted 195 su-57 I doubted it. I expect around 50 for me they have there uses but that many (195) would be a waste of money especially with 6th gen coming along and the push towards UAV systems. 

    what I always see in articles is russian economy bad and lack of funds they all fail to realise that Russia’s economy is actually doing quite well under the sanctions in fact I always laugh at sanctions the west never learn just look at Cuba and north Korea they haven't given up after half a century lol. in fact north Korea was more modern that the media portrays when I spent 10 days there visiting various parts of the country  (with guide of course) all sanctions do is turn the country into self reliance mode which is great less imports needed and boosts local trade, jobs, creates new industries and sometimes offers new export items as well as form closer ties with allies. So sanctions don't actually work.  They also fail to see the difference in usa defence budget and Russian budget if roles were reversed what state would usa military be in???? one article I read said that the difference in budgets was still hard to realise how this would effect procurement in Russia as you get more rubles for the dollar yeah okaaay the man was a moron like usa having a a budget at least ten times more than Russia hasn't got something to do with the fact usa can procure more expensive items and equipment in Russia isn't 10 times cheaper. people write this garbage are mad. 

    war is boring and national interest is written by bias puppets who have no clue what their talking about some of the article's are completely embarrassing and some look like they have been written by 10 year olds.

    your views on the su-57 future / this so called news?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHaPZdrielk&app=desktop

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/rip-russias-stealth-fighter-why-su-57-serious-trouble-43542
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    Post  marcellogo on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:59 pm

    What's is absolutely missing in the article is the reason because the Su-57 should be considered less stealthy than J-20, that have the same round engines exhaust + canards and ventral fins.
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    Post  LMFS on Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:53 pm

    @d_taddei2:

    Yeah, latest NI stunt is 100% unsalvageable crap. They just keep regurgitating their anti Russian propaganda regularly, because Russia is the enemy and hence it is to be harassed and weakened until it gives up and can be destroyed. Their course is set, nobody should reasonably host hopes of a settlement with US unless a cataclysmic change takes place among their leadership.

    This bashing of the Su-57 is a very interesting phenomenon, devoid of any technical merit or basic honesty, that continues unabated since the very beginning of the program, changing the arguments as they are busted but keeping the actors and the general tone of the thing. As of late it is very amusing to see the usual suspects struggling to cope with the fact that USAF seems to be planning to order F-15 again, after having mocked Russian VVS for still buying gen 4++ fighters and considered them useless junk in the modern warfare. Apart from how embarrassing it would be closing the line of the F-22 and then ordering its predecessor instead (and what it says about the F-22 as a weapon system itself), it is very interesting seeing them justifying the movement by the fact that ANG should only be tasked with air space defence missions and stealth is not necessary for it... yeah but Russia is desperately keen on attacking CONUS or something similar needing stealth right? On the other hand, F-22 seems too good to be ordered further but Su-57 cannot be considered unnecessary by Russia by now, sure.

    Regarding the future numbers and use of PAK-FA, I guess it is still not 100% decided. They said and it is true that they need to use and understand 5G before jumping to 6G. So Su-57 will be produced and used, at least in some modest numbers before 2030. But it is true too that early 5G (F-22) were expensive toys while late 5G (F-35, Su-57) seem to be just a short lived effort before 6G appears. So to say, not much came out of 5G due IMO to US conceiving it under a partially flawed philosophy and influencing other countries expectations and requirements through it. Planes that ended up being expensive, frail (F-22) and relying excessively on stealth and superiority of the technologies and not of the airframe (F-35), forcing USAF to rush into 6G. Hence the Russian intent on using Su-57 as a way into 6G. Is this possible? To a certain extent I think so, since the airframe is considerably more advanced than other 5G designs and a good step in direction to what we see from 6G (small rudders, advanced aero, big weapon bays, long range, distributed apertures) and then most of what seems will be the defining characteristics of 6G (unmanned operation, variable cycle engines, connectivity & smart sensors, DEW, interaction with UCAVs etc.) should depend on discrete subsystems that would logically be possible to retrofit on an existing platform. Due to size, philosophy and layout the Su-57 is considerably more apt to remain actual after such upgrades than for instance F-35, limited by cooling capacity, range, weapon bays size and lacklustre aero performance for a fighter. And now with the creation of UCAVs this capacity to remain actual will be increased even more, because the UCAVS themselves offer the possibility of being tailored to different missions and theatres, from more to less permissive, from strike to AD or interception. In that case of course the number of actual Su-57 being deployed would be affected by two novel factors:

    > On the one hand, one fighter is said to be coupled with up to 30 UAVs, meaning numbers of Su-57 wouldn't need to be big to command a powerful UCAV airforce
    > On the other, the flexibility granted by the UCAVs would allow the Su-57 to substitute the great majority of current fighter-like planes in VVS.

    So in short, a very long term program, but not a failed one IMO, except in the West's wildest dreams.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:14 pm

    LMFS wrote:...
    Regarding the future numbers and use of PAK-FA, I guess it is still not 100% decided....

    Su-57 will be getting same treatment as Flanker series: gradual acquisition over long period of time with constant upgrades and modifications. It's not going anywhere.

    Expect to see Gen 5++ version of Su-57 in several decades, same as how Su-27 became Su-35.

    LMFS wrote:...They said and it is true that they need to use and understand 5G before jumping to 6G....

    Basis or first specimen of 6-gen will be new interceptor (''MiG-41''), not Su-57.

    LMFS wrote:...USAF seems to be planning to order F-15 again....

    F-15X is one of best ideas USA had in ages and if they are smart they will be buying it in bulk.

    Hopefully Russia follows similar approach and come up with ''Su-30X'' down the road

    Desired fighter air fleet should be Su-57 for air superiority & fancy work and Su-30 in huge numbers for everything else.

    LMFS wrote:...closing the line of the F-22....

    This is without a doubt one of dumbest things USA has ever done. I read all the reasons for it but I still can't wrap my head around it.

    But whatever, USA loss is someone else's gain...
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    Post  Hole on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:30 pm

    To much bla bla. Very Happy

    PICS!!!

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 15 24486310
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #5 - Page 15 24486410
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    Post  LMFS on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:11 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Su-57 will be getting same treatment as Flanker series: gradual acquisition over long period of time with constant upgrades and modifications. It's not going anywhere.

    Expect to see Gen 5++ version of Su-57 in several decades, same as how Su-27 became Su-35.
    That seems the idea indeed. But as I discussed further, weight of Su-57 fleet vs. other planes & UCAVs will depend on future developments of air power. I think they will be able to cope will new developments, do not buy that the new Western 6G UFO proposals are going to materialise as soon and as marvellous as published.

    Basis or first specimen of 6-gen will be new interceptor (''MiG-41''), not Su-57.
    Volume of work on Su-57 by now seems to be orders of magnitude above anything else, let's wait for MiG-41 to go its way. It is not clear  what characteristics it will have or in what generation it will be classified. Not that it matters too much though. But in any case officials have clearly mentioned the Su-57 as a plane that will be developed into next gen...

    Hopefully Russia follows similar approach and come up with ''Su-30X'' down the road
    They have that strategy already at work isn't it? (this was what these monkeys were mocking in the first place, until they had to swallow the notion  that their almighty USAF may emulate it  lol1  lol1 ). The Su-30SM and Su-35S fleets are quite new and the former is slated for modernization soon. They will be there for 20+ years to come.

    This is without a doubt one of dumbest things USA has ever done. I read all the reasons for it but I still can't wrap my head around it.
    It is so dumb that I am inclined to suspect the plane having some serious flaws in terms of practical operation, export ban does not help to dispel that suspicion. That, or the MIC killing any possible rival of JSF. In any case it was produced in very little numbers for an US plane while appears that it will be both outlasted by its predecessor and substituted soon by the PCA after being declared the best and most dominant fighter of all times Embarassed
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:27 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    F-15X is one of best ideas USA had in ages and if they are smart they will be buying it in bulk.

    Hopefully Russia follows similar approach and come up with ''Su-30X'' down the road

    Looks like they will buy at least 200 of them on a one for one replacement of their F-15C/D fleet, the youngest of which is over 30 years. The new ones will have a 20,000 hour life so could be around for the next 50 years. Boeing offered a fixed price contract at a low price. Win win for the USAF. Two seat version in the deal as well.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:12 am

    The thing is that anything the Americans decide to do will be amazing and anything the Russians have will be crap or a copy...

    The F-22 was ended to prevent them going back to it because the US MIC wanted as much pork to be spent on the F-35 as a do everything fighter as they could manage.

    The fact that they screwed it up so badly gives me great confidence that any revival of any F-15X will become a super hornet fiasco... where they will try to make it stealthy which will make it more expensive to buy and to maintain and to operate and likely reduce most performance parameters than improve them...

    The simple fact is that the Russians don't need 3,000 fighter aircraft, they will likely end up with a balanced mix of 4+ and 5th gen fighters including a few hundred Su-35s, a few hundred MiG-35s, a few hundred Su-30s, plus their air defence forces will have a mix of MiG-31s and a growing number of MiG-41s when they are ready, and in the end I suspect they will get Su-57 into service with maybe 150-200 aircraft... and by 2030 they will be introducing light 5th gen fighters that will be STOL, and might be STOVL but I personally doubt that... they will buy perhaps 150 of those because they will be more expensive than the 4th gen aircraft and only superior in some areas for some missions...

    They will likely put S-400 and S-500 missiles on aircraft in the long range air to air and anti satellite roles, and will likely add unmanned platforms to support and supplement manned aircraft over the next few decades.

    The US MIC is in control and wants to make a lot of money and don't really care how they get it.

    The Russian MIC doesn't have that sort of power and basically makes offers to the Russian military who decide what they want and what they don't want.

    I am pretty sure that improvements in sensor technology and new gen radars will make stealth a minor technology... you would still check your RCS and try to minimise it but you wont spend an enormous amount on it and you wont totally compromise the design in favour of the lowest possible stealth figure...
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:52 pm

    All good points and yes the usa will go back to F-15 basis although they will still likely make it expensive and plagued with faults it what they do to milk the money. F-15 is a good aircraft though.

    and yes Su-30/34/35 along with mig-35 & 31 upgrades and slow introduction of su-57, mig-41 as I said I see stealth a niche role a one trick pony so to speak and yes GarryB spot on with advancements in sensors and radar stealth aircraft will be short lived a bit like the mini disc concept it only lasted a few years it also seems it's cheaper to invest in new sensors and radar than it is to invest in stealth technology. so although as u say it's good to reduce rcs but don't spend too much money on it or worry about it too much. It's a bit like the whole tank and better armour saga it was always cheaper and easier to develop an anti tank missile to defeat the new armour, armour technology couldn't keep up and they knew it was a losing battle hence new focus on soft and hard kill systems.
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    Post  Hole on Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:21 pm

    Well, the western block has to reduce the RCS because of the dense network of russian air defence systems. Also the B-2 and F-22 were designed to bring guided bombs close to the target (10km or so). On the other hand the "stealthiness" of the Su-57 and (soon) Okhotnik are more then enough for the much weaker western (ground-based) air defences. Plus the russian jets/drones will mainly use AGM´s (Kh-59M2, Kh-58UShK) and glide bombs.
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    Post  LMFS on Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:49 pm

    Hole wrote:Well, the western block has to reduce the RCS because of the dense network of russian air defence systems. Also the B-2 and F-22 were designed to bring guided bombs close to the target (10km or so). On the other hand the "stealthiness" of the Su-57 and (soon) Okhotnik are more then enough for the much weaker western (ground-based) air defences. Plus the russian jets/drones will mainly use AGM´s (Kh-59M2, Kh-58UShK) and glide bombs.
    US is developing and ordering as many stand-off weapons as they can, all while mocking Russia fake stealth with their usual duplicity. So much for pretending they can come 10 km of a SAM site without being observed lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:53 am

    Some of you lads were saying about Su-57 becoming with time 5+ or 5++ class. I say Su-57 is already ahead of what was defined originally as V gen. F-2 is tech form 80-90s, Su-57 ws "born" 20 years later.

    It's distributed radar, drone engagement, DEW weapons ( which project is now underway), STOL, range, specific weight/thrust for engines izd 30 - places it rather closer to 6 gen than F-22.




    GarryB wrote:The thing is that anything the Americans decide to do will be amazing and anything the Russians have will be crap or a copy...

    what else would you expect from  a country  gas-filling-station? huh  lol1  lol1  lol1



    GB wrote:I suspect they will get Su-57 into service with maybe 150-200 aircraft... and by 2030 they will be introducing light 5th gen fighters that will be STOL, and might be STOVL but I personally doubt that... they will buy perhaps 150 of those because they will be more expensive than the 4th gen aircraft and only superior in some areas for some missions...

    Technically the Su-57 is already STOL so the new one for navy must be STOLler or VSTOL. Otherwise why to bother? BTW  likely new fighters will become more unmanned plnes - no need to worry about pilots replacement and you have alredy expert fighter pilots after software upload.




    LMFS wrote:
    US is developing and ordering as many stand-off weapons as they can, all while mocking Russia fake stealth with their usual duplicity. So much for pretending they can come 10 km of a SAM site without being observed lol1 lol1 lol1

    but Afghanistan aggression is the best example they can lol1 lol1 lol1
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    Post  LMFS on Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:27 pm

    Found this source with technical characteristics of the Su-57:

    https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/dfnc.ru/katalog-vooruzhenij/istrebiteli-i-perehvatchiki/su-57-pak-fa/

    It comes from New Defence Order Strategy, which I considered a serious source, but I am not very convinced, since Russia has not made public essentially any technical data of the plane.

    Any thoughts about credibility of these data??

    The crew - 1 person
    Length - 19,7 m
    Wingspan 14 m
    Height - 4.8 m
    Wing area - 82 sq. m
    Wing sweep is 48 degrees

    Takeoff weight - 37000 kg
    Takeoff weight normal - 30610 kg
    Empty weight - 18500 kg
    Thrust-to-weight - 0,98-1,13
    The mass of the fuel - 11100 kg (in internal tanks)
    The payload mass up to 10000 kg

    The maximum speed is 2,600 km/h (at altitude)
    Cruising speed besforsazhny - 1.47 M

    Operating ceiling of 20,000 m

    The flight range (without refueling):
    ◊ with the FTB - 5500 km
    ◊ without PTB - 4300 km

    The run - 350-400 m
    Mileage is 350-400 m

    Maximum operating overload - 10-11 G
    Also thrust of izd. 30 is stated 17-18 t.

    BTW, here:

    http://dfnc.ru/katalog-vooruzhenij/aviatsionnye-rakety-i-bomby/9-a-7660-kinzhal/

    They also state that Kinzhal will be compatible with Su-57... Suspect

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