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    Peresvet laser complex

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:51 am

    Satellites have been "out of range" until now. But it can change soon.

    Satellites are different.

    To remain in orbit that is not geostationary (above the equator and very high up) satellites have to move so there is no way you could have GPS or GLONASS satellites that don't overfly most of the surface of the earth (eventually)... they go around every 90 minutes of so in a big spiral...

    If you shoot down satellites over your territory then you damn yourself and everyone else to not have GPS or satellite communciations of all kinds which is just too valuable to risk.

    And satellites are easy to kill... if you can launch a satellite into orbit (the soviets did it first remember) then you can launch a satellite on the opposite orbit and it will eventually collide and destroy both objects... shooting down satellites is as easy as launching them is.

    It is funny to see you comparing the use of an engineering weapon of a nature similar to the electronic warfare, making minimal phisical damage to unmmaned intelligence satellites, in order to dissable them, with the September 11 of 2001 attack, that caused 3000 civilian deaths in the heart of the US. To note that not even this attack caused a nuclear answer, despite Afghanistan and Irak were considered responsible of the attacks.

    Your point means that all I need do is change the use of an anti ship missile to a blinding laser that burns out the eyes of the crew of the US ship... blinding them is only doing minimal physical damage afterall, but the laser is intended to disable the satellites optical systems... not just dazzle them.

    The Peresvet systems seems to be a projection of the Electronic Warfare to the space, and like the Electronic Warfare seems oriented to cause a mal function of the systems and weapons of the enemy, not to destroy them phisically, despite in some cases, the mal function created can lead to the destruction of the foreign system/weapon.

    You make it sound like a jammer that just blocks the signals the satellites use temporarily... that is not the case... it would have been possible to make such a system in the 1970s if that was all that was wanted...

    next version will be hand held Peresvet

    And the version after that.... IS BEHIND YOU!!!
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:39 pm



    lets choose the sound for peresvet !
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:45 am

    Hole wrote:Today they could use the reactor developed for Poseidon. Small and light enough to fit into a trailer.

    Gas turbine? Whats with the doubts of if it's nuclear powered? It's already been stated that it is, check at the 5:20 mark:



    1 Mega Watt should provide plenty of power.
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    Post  Hole on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:57 am

    This is Burevestnik. We were talking about the powr source for the laser.
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    Post  eehnie on Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:13 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Satellites have been "out of range" until now. But it can change soon.

    Satellites are different.

    To remain in orbit that is not geostationary (above the equator and very high up) satellites have to move so there is no way you could have GPS or GLONASS satellites that don't overfly most of the surface of the earth (eventually)... they go around every 90 minutes of so in a big spiral...

    If you shoot down satellites over your territory then you damn yourself and everyone else to not have GPS or satellite communciations of all kinds which is just too valuable to risk.

    And satellites are easy to kill... if you can launch a satellite into orbit (the soviets did it first remember) then you can launch a satellite on the opposite orbit and it will eventually collide and destroy both objects... shooting down satellites is as easy as launching them is.

    It is funny to see you comparing the use of an engineering weapon of a nature similar to the electronic warfare, making minimal phisical damage to unmmaned intelligence satellites, in order to dissable them, with the September 11 of 2001 attack, that caused 3000 civilian deaths in the heart of the US. To note that not even this attack caused a nuclear answer, despite Afghanistan and Irak were considered responsible of the attacks.

    Your point means that all I need do is change the use of an anti ship missile to a blinding laser that burns out the eyes of the crew of the US ship... blinding them is only doing minimal physical damage afterall, but the laser is intended to disable the satellites optical systems... not just dazzle them.

    The Peresvet systems seems to be a projection of the Electronic Warfare to the space, and like the Electronic Warfare seems oriented to cause a mal function of the systems and weapons of the enemy, not to destroy them phisically, despite in some cases, the mal function created can lead to the destruction of the foreign system/weapon.

    You make it sound like a jammer that just blocks the signals the satellites use temporarily... that is not the case... it would have been possible to make such a system in the 1970s if that was all that was wanted...

    Do you remember the US destroyer dissabled by electronic warfare in the Black Sea right? It caused not a war. Some systems of Electronic Warfare do temporary mal function, others do permanent mal function, with some small phisical damage. In a ship, or in a land system habitually the damage is small and is not difficult to repair, but on air platforms (including space) the repairs are much more difficult and the damage by electronic warfare can cause a crash.

    From what we know, it seems that this is the form in which the Peresvet laser system can be used.

    At this point Russia knows perfectly which satellites are doing intelligence work and which are not. Maybe from hostile countries, or even of hostile private companies.

    I do not expect Russia doubt in the use of new available systems like the Peresvet to cut the hostile intelligence work against Russia. If the GPS (as example) space infrastructure is used to do hostile intelligence work against Russia, I do not think Russia would doubt damaging it.

    I
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    Post  Hole on Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:41 pm

    They won´t use the laser to physicaly damage a satellite, this could be seen as starting of hostilities, but use it do temporarily blind the optics. Like some idiots use laser pointers to irritate pilots.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:44 pm

    Hole wrote:This is Burevestnik. We were talking about the powr source for the laser.

    You didn't watch the video did you? I even gave you the time stamp (5:20), they clearly state that "The laser is powered by a miniature nuclear system", it can't get anymore clear than that.
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    Post  Hole on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:14 pm

    pwnd cry Embarassed
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    Post  Hole on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:17 pm

    By the way… the version of Peresvet in the video (on the flat-bed truck) seems to be the modernised complex an article on Sputnik talked about. Smaller and more mobile.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:15 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    Hole wrote:This is Burevestnik. We were talking about the powr source for the laser.

    You didn't watch the video did you? I even gave you the time stamp (5:20), they clearly state that "The laser is powered by a miniature nuclear system", it can't get anymore clear than that.

    so far it is to bling as they say " any airborne targets"  I wonder if there will be version that will keep burning stuff too. lol1 lol1 lol1




    Hole wrote:By the way… the version of Peresvet in the video (on the flat-bed truck) seems to be the modernised complex an article on Sputnik talked about. Smaller and more mobile.

    power cable for the other truck?
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    Post  Hole on Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:04 am

    Look at 5:10.
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    Post  eehnie on Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:48 am

    At 5:34 there is one example of how it works.

    Not the Star Wars model of use of laser technologies.

    In overall terms this is an engineering system, basically other form of Electronic Warfare. There is not a projectile to consider this an air defense system.

    Despite it, this system can be a game changer by its capability of electronic warfare projection in the long range.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:06 am

    Yet another confirmation it has a nuclear power plant:

    The first combat laser systems "Peresvet" took over on duty this fall. Peresvet is one of the most mysterious items in the army’s arsenal. It is known that the basis of the system is a nuclear power plant. It is the NPP that provides the unique power capacity of the new system. At the same time, there is still no answer to the most important question: what tasks does the combat laser solve?

    Peresvet laser complex - Page 6 Lazernyii_kompleks_peresvet-pki1vc7g-1546453810.t

    There are only a few assumptions. The laser burns out the optoelectronic intelligence systems installed on airplanes, helicopters and UAVs. Perhaps Peresvet’s power will be enough to bring out or at least blind for some time the optics of satellite reconnaissance aircraft.

    According to another version, the Peresvet beam heats the body and the structure of the aircraft. This disables the control system, onboard electronics and engines, and leads to fires. As a result, a drone, plane or cruise missile in a matter of seconds fails and falls to the ground.

    https://vpk.name/news/239990_zaglyanuli_za_gorizont_novoe_rossiiskoe_oruzhie_operedilo_vremya.html
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:18 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:Yet another confirmation it has a nuclear power plant:

    with NPP Peresvet is likely to be not only "blind sensors". All problems with US "flying ABM lasers waer power supply AFAIK. Russians sorted out power supply nothing prevents Russia now form mounting lasers on ships or even "ABM Il-476"

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    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:52 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:Yet another confirmation it has a nuclear power plant:

    with NPP Peresvet is likely to be not only "blind sensors". All problems with US "flying ABM lasers waer power supply AFAIK. Russians sorted out power supply nothing prevents Russia now form mounting lasers on ships or even "ABM Il-476"


    Agreed, if I has that much juice then it can put some serious pain on targets

    I assumed that size of that truck trailer was due to large power generator since laser itself is always compact device but nuclear reactor would also explain the size
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    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:53 pm

    All laser systems Peresvet to enter duty in December 2019

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1045603
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    Post  nemrod on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:09 pm

    GarryB wrote:This laser system is not intended to replace all the sams in Russian service from Verba to S-500.
    Do U have clues if this system could be embedded in fighter like the SU-24, or SU-35 ? If so it would be the end of the air-air missiles 'adventure. Russia does have the answer.
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    Post  x_54_u43 on Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:53 pm

    What's the point of a nuclear reactor of only 1 MW electrical output? A gas turbine generator could quite easily provide that amount of power for a long period of time while being far cheaper and easier to manage than a fucking land based mobile nuclear power plant. Being nuclear powered wouldn't even make it that special, it's all about the power output and efficiency of the actual laser projector. 1 MW of nuclear power isn't very interesting other than having a land based mobile nuclear power plant, it could be 1 MW of hydropower, solar, etc.
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:33 am

    nemrod wrote:
    GarryB wrote:This laser system is not intended to replace all the sams in Russian service from Verba to S-500.
    Do U have clues if this system could be embedded in fighter like the SU-24, or SU-35 ? If so it would be the end of the air-air missiles 'adventure. Russia does have the answer.



    did you see size of truck? no this class lasers re nto suited fo fighters. US isplying with 50-100kW power lasers thus it should be sfafe to assume Russian DEW would be round this parameters.
    .
    Somehow i dotn see killing other fighters with laser, since range is an issue here . AA missile self defense? yes this is definitely an advantage but no silver bullet Im afraid .


    AFAIK Russians are planning to use MW weapons instead of lasers on fighters/drones

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    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:05 am

    Do you remember the US destroyer dissabled by electronic warfare in the Black Sea right? It caused not a war. Some systems of Electronic Warfare do temporary mal function, others do permanent mal function, with some small phisical damage. In a ship, or in a land system habitually the damage is small and is not difficult to repair, but on air platforms (including space) the repairs are much more difficult and the damage by electronic warfare can cause a crash.

    What I am suggesting is that if US remote sensing satellites and GPS satellites over Russia keep failing, then the US is going to suspect there is something about to happen.

    It is one thing to make a single ship go doolally in the Black Sea near Russian waters... they are hardly going to start WWIII by attacking a ship like that.

    Blinding all US satellites that are intended to warn of a strategic nuclear missile attack however suddenly becomes rather more serious... what are they trying to hide by blinding US satellites over Russia and disabling GPS satellites over Russia too?

    There were no agreements regarding space... before sputnik the US could just as easily state that US airspace goes out into space so any satellite travelling over US territory is an invasion of US property and will be shot down.

    They did not do that because they realised at the time they knew almost nothing about the Soviet Union and being able to launch satellites that flew over the SU would be enormously valuable to them to both plan and prepare.

    They learned a lot of critical information from their early satellites and spy aircraft overflights... the missile gaps and the bomber gaps were real... but actually favoured the west... as you would naturally expect considering how WWII went and ended... they didn't release such information and went ahead and spent enormous amounts of money on new missiles and new bombers... before they were going for what they thought was parity because they thought the Soviets had a huge advantage... when they found they already had the advantage they changed policy and went for dominance and massive superiority... the ability to strike an initial killing blow to win a nuclear war... the peace and freedom loving west created the cold war arms race... and the Soviets knuckled down and they caught up and surpassed the west in the early 1980s to oblige them their stupid wasteful weapon race...

    The point is that the ability to see what was happening anywhere in the world it was decided that action would not be taken against enemy satellites to ensure nothing was done to yours. The removal of the ABM treaty means ballistic missiles but also therefore satellites are fair game again... so there is a risk of being blinded... which could lead to the belief they are under attack and if they don't launch a full retaliation that the attack hidden by the blinding of your sensors could lead to you losing the capacity to attack at all.

    The old use it or lose it argument...

    What's the point of a nuclear reactor of only 1 MW electrical output? A gas turbine generator could quite easily provide that amount of power for a long period of time while being far cheaper and easier to manage than a fucking land based mobile nuclear power plant. Being nuclear powered wouldn't even make it that special, it's all about the power output and efficiency of the actual laser projector. 1 MW of nuclear power isn't very interesting other than having a land based mobile nuclear power plant, it could be 1 MW of hydropower, solar, etc.

    Nuclear means fully portable and reliable... it could be used underwater, or in aircraft or space craft or anywhere.

    The Soviets developed a system called Topaz that weighed about 350kgs and generated a 5 KW power for 3-5 years... it was tested on satellites, but had promise for use on space bases as having a reliable power supply that is not too heavy is critical. Most importantly it generated heat as a by product but for a base on the Moon or Mars a lot of power would be needed for heating the base so waste heat could be used for heating leaving the power generated for other purposes...
    I would expect progress to be made and power levels to increase, size and weight to decrease and efficiency to improve over time too.
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    Post  kvs on Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:21 am

    x_54_u43 wrote:What's the point of a nuclear reactor of only 1 MW electrical output? A gas turbine generator could quite easily provide that amount of power for a long period of time while being far cheaper and easier to manage than a fucking land based mobile nuclear power plant. Being nuclear powered wouldn't even make it that special, it's all about the power output and efficiency of the actual laser projector. 1 MW of nuclear power isn't very interesting other than having a land based mobile nuclear power plant, it could be 1 MW of hydropower, solar, etc.

    We have precisely zero details on this powerplant. How do you know it is not a direct electricity generator?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon-intermediate_direct_energy_conversion

    https://fusion.gat.com/pubs-ext/AnnSemiannETC/A23593.pdf

    Russian nuclear engineering plays second fiddle to nobody. If they chose to use a nuclear power plant for this laser, then they had
    a bloody good reason for it.

    I am getting tired of hearing how anything produced by Russia is garbage generated by congenital idiots. Western ubermenschen
    have only now "broken" a rocket technology record set by the USSR 40 years ago.

    https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-engine-breaks-russian-record-extraordinary-test-series/

    The twits who wrote the article are unaware that the RD-180 is half the RD-170. And the RD-170 was developed from the late
    1970s to the early 1980s.
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    Post  Hole on Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:23 am

    Point of the NPP is that it is fully mobile compared to a wind farm or the number of solar panels you would need to "harvest" 1MW of power. Compared to a gas turbine it can generate energy much longer without the need to be refuelled which means the laser work much longer.
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    Post  x_54_u43 on Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:58 pm

    kvs wrote:
    x_54_u43 wrote:What's the point of a nuclear reactor of only 1 MW electrical output? A gas turbine generator could quite easily provide that amount of power for a long period of time while being far cheaper and easier to manage than a fucking land based mobile nuclear power plant. Being nuclear powered wouldn't even make it that special, it's all about the power output and efficiency of the actual laser projector. 1 MW of nuclear power isn't very interesting other than having a land based mobile nuclear power plant, it could be 1 MW of hydropower, solar, etc.

    We have precisely zero details on this powerplant.   How do you know it is not a direct electricity generator?  

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon-intermediate_direct_energy_conversion

    https://fusion.gat.com/pubs-ext/AnnSemiannETC/A23593.pdf

    Russian nuclear engineering plays second fiddle to nobody.   If they chose to use a nuclear power plant for this laser, then they had
    a bloody good reason for it.    

    You're right on zero details on the powerplant, I was only speaking about the hypothetical IDEA of a nuclear powerplant for this laser, and also that while mobile nuclear powerplant is impressive in of itself, it means little to the laser and it's performance compared to domestic or Western projects.

    I am getting tired of hearing how anything produced by Russia is garbage generated by congenital idiots. Western ubermenschen
    have only now "broken" a rocket technology record set by the USSR 40 years ago.

    https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-engine-breaks-russian-record-extraordinary-test-series/

    The twits who wrote the article are unaware that the RD-180 is half the RD-170. And the RD-170 was developed from the late
    1970s to the early 1980s.

    Dude wtf is your problem? I merely state Peresvet being nuclear powered wouldn't mean much from the PERSPECTIVE of the LASER weaponry department, and you go on about rockets and ubermenschen.

    Hole wrote:Point of the NPP is that it is fully mobile compared to a wind farm or the number of solar panels you would need to "harvest" 1MW of power. Compared to a gas turbine it can generate energy much longer without the need to be refuelled which means the laser work much longer.

    Good points, though I was only speaking of hydro/solar/etc as to the point that the laser or it's performance does not care as to what produces the power for it. If I had to bet money on what powerplant it uses, I would bet gas turbine, for one, 1 MW of electrical power would not require a large generator setup at all, to give an idea, Armata's engine has more than a MW of mechanical power, 1MW being 1341 horsepower. To the endurance of a nuclear reactor compared to gas turbine, I completely agree, but we must consider the uses of this laser, from most reported sources, it is intended to blind satellites from the moment of ICBM launch, meaning this could easily conveniently powered from gas turbines and not requiring a nuclear reactor to constantly provide it power, as this laser is not going to be on constant ready to fire status at all. Plus, with gas turbine, it becomes FAR cheaper and safer, and it is not like it will be on the front lines where supply of fuel could become an issue.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:57 am

    The amazing thing about a nuclear power generation system that generates a lot of power in a fixed size is revolutionary... a bit like the internal combustion engine radically changed the horse and cart and made possible the fixed and rotary winged aircraft, a compact but also quite powerful energy source could make some things that were previously not possible actually rather viable.

    Previously lasers were not considered to replace missiles because lasers are expensive and use exotic materials and require enormous amounts of power... you could use a gas turbine but it could take a long time to generate enough power for a decent shot... and how do you store that power while you are building up a charge etc etc.

    Having a seriously powerful energy generation system makes all sorts of new things rather more practical especially if it can do it for years without burning enormous amounts of fuel etc.

    Just considering a tank, there are new plans for EM boosted or assisted guns with enormous penetration performance... there is electrical armour where the inner surface and an outer surface have millions of volts running through them with insulation in between... a thing trying to penetrate from the outside completes the circuit... whether it is a plasma made up of exotic metals from a HEAT warhead or a metal penetrator like an APFSDS round crosses the circuit and billions of volts surge through the penetrator instantly vapourising it and stopping the penetrator from entering the vehicle... the inner and outer components of the circuit could be the front and the back of a NERA block attached to the outside of the vehicle...

    A future where power is diverted from the shields to the gun to fire and then back to the shields or the active camouflage for a cloaking effect is not that far away...

    On a ship they could use this power for EMALS launch of aircraft or projectiles....

    Very powerful energy sources in a relatively compact size will be very very useful... you could use one in a ship to replace the engines and transmissions and just have an engine pod with a nuclear power source with no big heavy shafts or transmissions etc... the pods could turn 360 degrees and be removed every 20 years for refuelling... in 20 years time you can use a more powerful model with a more efficient propeller etc etc 2 at the front and 2 at the back and you would not need tug boats any more...
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    Post  George1 on Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:56 am

    Peresvet laser complexes in Sarov

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