Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 2893
    Points : 2891
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:31 am

    As I was saying-"train in the Black Sea":
    It is highly advisable to have in the Black Sea Fleet a training aircraft carrier, created as soon as possible on the basis of a large civilian vessel. .."Kuznetsov" in the repair, and the cost of its operation is very high. Therefore, we really need to have a “ship's desk” (training aircraft carrier) to handle deck aircraft. http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2018-12-06/6_1025_sky.html
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22039
    Points : 22583
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:29 am

    Errr... don't they now have access to the training facility in the Crimea that was used in Soviet times to train for carrier operations?

    Sputnik: Nitka

    Of course there is nothing there... just look at the map:

    Saki Airfield
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 2893
    Points : 2891
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:14 am

    They do, but shipboard flight ops qualifications need to be trained for.
    The USN had training carriers on the Great Lakes during WWII. Unlike the White Sea & Lake Baikal, the Black Sea doesn't freeze in winter & has year round better weather, the best on Russia's coasts.
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3238
    Points : 3270
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  franco on Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:Errr... don't they now have access to the training facility in the Crimea that was used in Soviet times to train for carrier operations?

    Sputnik: Nitka

    Of course there is nothing there... just look at the map:

    Saki Airfield

    My sarcasm meter is not working however if you go into your Saki Airfield link and from the red cursor go up that runway to your right you can see the practice aircraft carrier lift.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 2893
    Points : 2891
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:47 pm

    Look at SW corner of the airfield. 3 Su-33s parked to the NE of the practice area: https://www.google.com/maps/search/%D0%90%D1%8D%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BC+%D0%A1%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B8/@45.0857175,33.5897588,1277m/data=!3m1!1e3

    They also have NITKA  at Eisk:
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%95%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA,+%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9+%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9,+%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F/@46.6754851,38.1811994,310m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x40e42c3bc1a9aa8b:0x62be386c32f0bc0e!8m2!3d46.6825784!4d38.2702941
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3238
    Points : 3270
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  franco on Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:52 pm

    Believe those 3 aircraft are Su-30SM's.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 2893
    Points : 2891
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:20 pm

    Could be, their paint scheme is similar:
    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 KnAAPO-Su-33-1

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=875&bih=379&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=XuEKXMv3Ko7c_wSxvo6YDQ&q=Su-30SM&oq=Su-30SM&gs_l=img.12..0j0i30l6j0i5i30j0i30l2.66127.67032..69385...0.0..0.683.1356.5-2......0....1..gws-wiz-img.fFp03SpO0Ro

    They were probably loaned by the AF for training purposes.
    https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/russia-to-upgrade-su-30sm-fighter-jets-in-2018/
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3238
    Points : 3270
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  franco on Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:10 pm

    No, Russian Naval Aviation has 24 Su-30SM's on order. First 12 are at Saki Airfield.
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3638
    Points : 3722
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:27 pm

    https://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12153428@egNews

    Очередная партия палубных истребителей Су-33 оборудована специальной вычислительной подсистемы СВП-24-33 в рамках модернизации.
    В результате проведенной модернизации они смогут с высокой эффективностью работать не только по воздушным, но также по наземным и морским целям.

    A new batch of naval fighters Su-33 are equipped with SVP-24-33 during modernisation. After modernization, they could highly effectively work against targets in the air, on the ground and on the sea.

    This text is written in the way, that SVP-24-33 subsystem could be just a part of modernisation, not the whole modernisation.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22039
    Points : 22583
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:16 am

    It is normal for inservice aircraft and vehicles to get upgrades to keep them relevant... they cost money to keep in service so it makes sense to spend a little more to keep them useful.

    Also upgrades can replace old equipment that will get harder to maintain over time.

    If you don't understand this... think about trying to buy a Video cassette tape of a new movie coming out now... it is easier and cheaper to buy a flash RAM compatible TV than to get the movie and record it onto video tape to play on an old video tape recorder.

    George1
    George1

    Posts : 13765
    Points : 14258
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:26 am

    The crisis state of the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy

    Article by Maxim Klimov: "The fiery sky of the Russian fleet. Without an effective and strong naval aviation, there can be no modern Navy" criticizing the development of the aviation component of the current Russian Navy.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3446895.html

    I would emphasize as one of biggest problems the lack of a multi-role naval helicopter. Ka-27 is an outdated machine
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2268
    Points : 2266
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Hole on Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:53 am

    Realy interesting that this BS "articles" are coming now and not ten years ago. Today they are out of date, with new Su-30SM and MiG-29K´s delivered, Il-38 and Ka-27 modernised and plans to modernise the Tu-142.
    eehnie
    eehnie

    Posts : 2476
    Points : 2487
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  eehnie on Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:18 am

    It is very interesting to note the high correlation between the recent words of I Kozhin and the Russian Maritime Doctrine of 2015:

    http://redstar.ru/po-puti-obnovleniya/

    - Igor Sergeyevich, if possible, indicate, please, the prospects for the development of naval aviation for a long period of time, for example, until 2050.
    - As I have already mentioned, in naval aviation it is planned to modernize the existing fleet of aircraft and their phased replacement with promising aviation complexes.

    The daily routine of sea pilots.  Photo Vadim Savitsky.

    At the first stage (until 2020), an active modernization of the existing aircraft fleet is carried out.  We are also talking about the replacement of special aircraft with new types of aircraft, the inclusion of assault and transport-assault ship-based helicopters (Ka-52K), naval unmanned aerial vehicles into the combat strength of the naval fighter aircraft units (MiG-29K / KUB).  In total, up to 2020 it is planned to supply more than 100 aircraft to the naval aviation of the Navy.

    At the second stage (2021–2030), the modernization of the entire fleet of naval aviation aircraft and helicopters and the re-equipment of coastal-based fighter-assault aviation aircraft will be continued. home base. Naval aircraft of the radar patrol, ship-based unmanned aerial vehicles, and a promising naval aviation complex should come into service with naval aviation.

    At the third stage (2031–2050), naval aviation is expected to switch to a new generation of multifunctional aircraft and adopt a new generation of high-precision air-based weapons systems; and patrol plane far zone.  Search and rescue helicopters of the amphibious class of the far zone will be created, including for operations in the Arctic and offshore Arctic seas.

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7032p50-state-armament-program-2018-2027#211908

    Naval Aviation

    For the Russian Naval Aviation the focus in the first phase will be the development and serial production of an advanced maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) by 2020.

    Additionally, Russia will look to develop and produce a new shore/ship-based multirole helicopter (to replace the Ka-27) and acquire a ship-based combat helicopter (the Ka-52K). Russia will also seek to develop advanced airborne strike systems.

    The second phase will see the deployment of the new Russian ship-based radar surveillance aircraft, ship-based UAVs, and ship-based strike aircraft. The 2021-2030 period will see the Russian Naval Aviation transition to optionally piloted aircraft, including those derived from existing manned aircraft. Obsolete aircraft are to be replaced by modern, multirole manned and unmanned aircraft.

    During the 2031-2050 phase naval aviation focus will switch to a new generation of multirole aircraft and UAVs and field a new generation of airborne precision weapon systems.

    Fairly coincident, despite what many people has been saying against the enforcement of the Russian Maritime Doctrine of 2015. This is the right way to work.

    Habitually, the Russian Naval Aviation has not the best funding, something that makes difficult to keep the step of other branches, specially, the Russian Aerospace Forces, in terms of procurement of modern warfare.

    New technologies are opening many new options in the refered to the shipborne aerial platforms, both manned and unmanned. The Russian Naval Aviation must keep them at the best level. No-one else will do. In the future, the shipborne component of the Russian Naval Aviation will be much more important than until now.

    To turn strongly toward the new shipborne aerial platforms very likely will mean a strong impulse to the modernization of the Russian Naval Aviation and to raise strongly the capabilities of the Russian Naval Aviation.

    The Russian Naval Aviation must not fear standardization with the Russian Aerospace Forces. They can find advantages on it.
    Tsavo Lion
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 2893
    Points : 2891
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Russian Naval Aviation

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:00 pm

    The first heavy Russian drone passed flight tests: exclusive shots
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201809102300-w76k.htm
    https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2018/9/11/11930/?h

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B8%D1%80_(%D0%91%D0%9F%D0%9B%D0%90)#%D0%A2%D0%A2%D0%A5

    It's size is comparable with the E-2 & Yak-44:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_E-2_Hawkeye#Specifications_(E-2C/D)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-44#Specifications_(Yak-44E)

    The C-2 COD can carry even less cargo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_C-2_Greyhound#Specifications_(Reprocured_C-2A)

    They could be navalized & modified as AWACS & COD for for future UDKs/CVNs.
    franco
    franco

    Posts : 3238
    Points : 3270
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  franco on Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:04 pm

    Russia strengthened its air grouping near Kaliningrad

    February 02, 2019

    Russia has strengthened the military grouping in the Kaliningrad region by the Fighter Aviation Regiment in response to the buildup of NATO forces in the Baltic Sea region, a source familiar with the situation told Interfax on Saturday.

    “As part of the naval aviation of the Baltic Fleet (BF), a fighter regiment has been formed, which is armed with Su-27 aircraft,” he said.

    According to the interlocutor of the agency, the assault air regiment formed earlier is also part of the said compound.

    As previously reported by the press service of the Baltic Fleet, the other day “pilots of the fighter regiment of the naval aviation of the Baltic Fleet in the Kaliningrad region have mastered the piloting technique and elements of air combat on Su-27 aircraft.”

    In particular, the Su-27 fighters "discovered the target and worked out actions for the forced landing of a conditional enemy aircraft on the airfield."

    Earlier it was reported that the ground component of the forces in the Kaliningrad region — the 11th Army Corps of the Coastal and Land Forces of the Baltic Fleet — was reinforced by a tank regiment. Last year, the missile brigade near Kaliningrad was reequipped for Iskander-M operational tactical missile systems.

    NOTE:has been just a squadron over the past few years. Obviously a second squadron has been raised most likely from the best of the aircraft being replaced at Besovets by Su-35S's.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1397
    Points : 1391
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  LMFS on Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:48 am

    The defense Ministry told about the modernization of the deck fighter su-33

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201903110119-lb54.htm

    "The first round of upgrades done and now ready for a second, after which there will be increased engine power, improved detection systems, etc. su-33 will be truly multi-purpose",
    flamming_python
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3557
    Points : 3641
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:06 pm

    LMFS wrote:The defense Ministry told about the modernization of the deck fighter su-33

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201903110119-lb54.htm

    "The first round of upgrades done and now ready for a second, after which there will be increased engine power, improved detection systems, etc. su-33 will be truly multi-purpose",

    They'll need a working carrier for it though.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1397
    Points : 1391
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  LMFS on Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:33 pm

    They are overhauling the Kuznetsov as far as I know, not scraping it
    miketheterrible
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 3859
    Points : 3839
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:06 pm

    I think he is referring the uncertain aspect of after the floating dock sunk. Little news since. Even though zvezda yard could handle it.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1397
    Points : 1391
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  LMFS on Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:35 pm

    Ok I see. MoD said the schedule was not severely affected by the incident and that they had several options to handle the situation. In any case the K is planned to remain in operation for the foreseeable future so both MiG-29K and Su-33 will have a carrier from which to operate.

    I wonder what the updates for the Sukhois will be. Probably AL-41F1S TVC engines, maybe Irbis-E radar? Avionics should be revamped, probably unifying with Su-35S too? The resulting plane would be a naval fighter of serious capabilities. BTW using the data of the AL-41F1S and 33 tonnes as MTOW, together with F-18 derived aero data, plane could take off fully loaded from a short springboard TO run. Of course aero data is the flimsy part of the analysis but given the Su-33 has lifting body + canards my guess is that the low speed characteristics should not be much worse. If anyone has factual data about the following parameters it would be great:

    Optimal Speed (knots):
    Optimal AoA:
    Lift To Drag Ratio:
    Maximal Pitch Rate (deg/s):
    AoA Limit:

    On the other hand, not tragically relevant for A2A or the kind of A2G loadouts we have seen until now...
    medo
    medo

    Posts : 3638
    Points : 3722
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  medo on Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:30 pm

    Russia already restarted production of new AL-31F3 engines for Su-33, so those engines will be installed. New engines are not the same as those from nineties, but upgraded as the new AL-31F engines, what means FADEC, lower fuel consumption, longer service life. Most probably they could also increase the power of engines. AL-31F3 is navalized engine with better anti corrosion protection. Regarding radar, there is a good question, if they will upgrade existing radar to N001VEP level or replace it with a new radar. Engines are strong enough to operate Bars-R radar from Su-30SM. I think there is enough space for it and that Bars-R os not that much heavier than old N001 radar. After all, Bars-R is PESA radar and far better than Zhuk-M radar in MiG-29K.

    It is more than clear, that NAVY more prefer Su-33 than MiG-29K. But MiG-29K will be the one, which will operate from Kuz carrier. Modernization of Kuz is exactly for MiG-29K integration. Maybe just a small number of Su-33 will still serve on carrier, the rest will operate from ground airbases. They build airbases on Arctic islands and deep modernized Su-33 is the best fighter to operate there. It have stronger structure, better anti corosion protection, naval navigation complex for over the sea operations, folding wings for smaller shelters, etc.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1397
    Points : 1391
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  LMFS on Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:43 pm

    Thanks medo!
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 22039
    Points : 22583
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:58 am

    I wonder what the updates for the Sukhois will be. Probably AL-41F1S TVC engines, maybe Irbis-E radar? Avionics should be revamped, probably unifying with Su-35S too? The resulting plane would be a naval fighter of serious capabilities.

    Yeah, don't expect too much with the Russian Navy... they wont spend a lot of money on an upgrade to a fighter that will be land based for the next 2-3 years.

    They could certainly spend a lot and make it a powerful fighter, but past experience suggests they just want a fighter that can reach out and touch and it can already do that pretty good.

    It is more than clear, that NAVY more prefer Su-33 than MiG-29K.

    Not sure how you can assert that... the Su-33s are getting an upgrade because they need one... MiG-29KR are not because they are still pretty much brand new...

    It is amusing though because in the US Navy there was the same bickering regarding the F-14 and the F-18... same arguments... quite amusing... except in this case these two aircraft are of the same generation.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 1397
    Points : 1391
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  LMFS on Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:39 am

    The explanation submitted by medo makes sense to me:
    - RuN has already two sqd. of the MiG-29K. They are brand new and enough for the Kuznetsov, in fact I don't know if it has ever carried more than 2 sqd. worth of fighters on board.
    - Turning Su-33 into a multirole fighter may allow it to cover the same roles of Su-30 but in the Arctic as exposed by medo. It would not be bad for covering the big Arctic coast to have planes that are based on land but can eventually use the K. And keeping them only as back-up for the K really makes no sense.

    In any case an update of the Su-33 means they have a lot of operational life in front of them, that is not what I expected.
    dino00
    dino00

    Posts : 1008
    Points : 1049
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 32
    Location : portugal

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  dino00 on Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:28 pm

    Aircraft one Mach: fighters induce hypersonic missiles

    Navy pilots will be taught to share information about potential targets with each other, ships and headquarters in real time


    The latest Russian missiles "Zircon", "Onyx" and "Caliber" will be aimed at the target deck fighters. Su-33 and MiG-29KR in real time will be able to transmit information about the likely enemy ships, ground bases and higher headquarters, as well as receive information from them, told "Izvestia" in the Ministry of Defense. Thanks to the new system, pilots will not only be able to hit air, sea and land targets on their own, but also direct cruise missiles to these objects. One fighter jet missile volley is capable of sending an enemy aircraft carrier to the bottom. The first phase of work will be completed at the end of this - the beginning of next year.

    After the introduction of a new aviation system, sea fighters will become effective reconnaissance aircraft: they will be able not only to warn ships and air defense systems in advance about the appearance of an air enemy, but also to provide target indications for cruise missiles, S-400, S-500 air defense systems and naval anti-aircraft missiles. MiG-29KR and MiG-29KUBR have already received information exchange systems, the Su-33 is currently preparing for modernization, told “Izvestia” in the military department.

    Full article
    https://iz.ru/855829/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/avianosetc-odnim-makhom-istrebiteli-navedut-giperzvukovye-rakety

    Sponsored content

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 20 Empty Re: Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:36 pm