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    "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

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    Hole

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:42 am

    But all russian AAA systems have the capability and are used to fire at ground targets. The 2S38 won´t be an exception.
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    eehnie

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  eehnie on Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:38 am

    LMFS wrote:Guess that AA-specific vehicle would not be the T-15 but some lighter, cheaper one with more ammo.

    For every platform surely it will be a development for Air Defense and BMPT purpose. The development for Air Defense and BMPT role on the Armata platform is not the T-15 (IFV for infantry role), is this one:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7566p50-derivation-57mm-aa-gun-development#181106

    Austin wrote:
    "Terminator 3" will receive two powerful 57-mm automatic gun
    The latest fighting vehicle fire support "Terminator 3" based on heavy tracked "Armata" platform will receive as the main armament just two 57-mm automatic cannon.

    Information about this is available in the blog of the famous Russian historian and expert Alexei Hlopotova tank. He, in turn, as a primary source refers to the book "Ural Railway Car Plant 80 years" S.V.Ustyantseva.
    Also doubles powerful 57-mm guns, advanced anti-tank guided missiles will be installed in "Terminator 3". Perhaps it is a third-generation products, which operate on the principle of "shot - forgot", ie, have a homing systems.
     Military experts ambiguously received this information, there is the opinion that weapons of "Terminator 3" is redundant and one 57-mm gun on the combat unit "Baikal" type would be enough. In any case, the new version of the combat vehicle fire support firepower will not be equal.


    http://vpk-news.ru/news/33827Подробнее: http://vpk-news.ru/news/33827
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    LMFS

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  LMFS on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:30 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    LMFS wrote:Guess that AA-specific vehicle would not be the T-15 but some lighter, cheaper one with more ammo.

    For every platform surely it will be a development for Air Defense and BMPT purpose. The development for Air Defense and BMPT role on the Armata platform is not the T-15 (IFV for infantry role), is this one:

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7566p50-derivation-57mm-aa-gun-development#181106

    I just see the levels of protection and firepower in a T-15 more than sufficient, given the advantage in numbers they would count on, compared to specialised variants. Basic rationality would mean avoid developing the BMPT-3 if it is not necessary. But of course, Russian military may see it different and I would not complaint! Not sure the BMPT-3 would double as AD variant though, is that what you are saying?
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    Hole

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  Hole on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:49 pm

    The thing with the unified platform Armata is that you can easily develop new versions. The BMPT-3 (T-17?) will supplement the T-15. Both vehicles will have optics and radars (for the APS) and data-link so they could also be used in air defence with the help of a decent radar vehicle.
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    LMFS

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  LMFS on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:58 pm

    Hole wrote:The thing with the unified platform Armata is that you can easily develop new versions. The BMPT-3 (T-17?) will supplement the T-15. Both vehicles will have optics and radars (for the APS) and data-link so they could also be used in air defence with the help of a decent radar vehicle.

    You cannot let a BMP-2 to face the threat of antitank crews, even if only armed with RPGs or even heavy machineguns / small calibre cannons. And its firepower is also not enough against strong fortifications. A BMPT makes complete sense to complement it. But with T-15 this is more questionable.

    The radars for the APS... maybe I am wrong but I understand their design is not meant for AD at all, are they expected to operate as fire control for the cannon? But in any case yes, the new 57 mm reinforces the organic AA capacity which is a very powerful resource against PGMs, UAVs, helos etc. as illustrated in its thread.

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    GarryB

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:25 am

    There are several turret designs... one is the AU-220 or whatever designed to replace the turret on a PT-76 amphibious vehicle.

    Another is to be used in air defence units and does not have any missiles on it it appears.

    The third is the one with Ataka missiles on it and it is intended for mounting on the Armata, the kurganets, and the boomerang as a turret for an IFV.

    The second one with EO sensors but no missiles will also likely be mounted on armata, and kurganets and boomerang chassis, but will be used in air defence units like they currently use BMP-2s with gripstocks for MANPADS inside.

    Remember the job of an IFV is to have a main gun armament able to deal with anything on the battlefield except tanks and to engage tanks with ATGMs... to reliably penetrate modern NATO IFVs (some of which weigh 32+ tons with heavy armour) requires a gun that is rather more potent than a 30mm gun.

    But all russian AAA systems have the capability and are used to fire at ground targets. The 2S38 won´t be an exception.

    Indeed the Shilka, and BTR-40 and Tunguska have been used in the ground to ground fire support role... that is where the BMPT idea came from... normally the troops ripped out the radar and electronics and added extra ammo...

    With BMPT ideas, I suspect the practise will no longer be needed in the future however.

    My understanding of the radars on the armata is that it is short range for detecting incoming threat for the afghan APS system.

    An air defence vehicle would operate with other vehicles with missiles... no doubt TOR and Pantsir etc, so good EO systems and a datalink to nearby vehicles should actually be plenty without making it too expensive.

    Ironically the concept of a BMPT is a vehicle with an armament optimised to deal with threats other than enemy tanks... but that pretty much describes the armament of an IFV with tank level armour.

    The armata family of vehicles are the tank level armoured vehicles so they get the designation of T...

    hoom

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  hoom on Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:03 am

    Couple of interesting diagrams


    So the one shown on the Armata chassis was the top version, minimal hull penetration and 80 rounds, the one on BMP3 chassis is full penetration with 148 rounds.

    But they're both called AU-220M scratch
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    LMFS

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  LMFS on Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:10 am

    @hoom:

    thanks, you just solved some of my existential doubts about the Au-220M thumbsup

    Makes much sense now

    volna

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  volna on Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:54 am

    Is this one a radar antenna?


    hoom

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  hoom on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:07 am

    There is some kind of antenna on the Derivation (BMP3) version above the gunner sight

    Its tilts vertically but its fixed in azimuth & small so its not a search radar, I presume its something like a ranger/shell tracker.

    volna

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    Re: "Derivation" 57mm AA gun development

    Post  volna on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:02 am

    Oh!Thank you!This is what I ask.
    My photo doesn’t work.

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