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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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    GarryB
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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:47 am

    Actually that is a factor... manouvering warhead...

    Why talk about a manouvering warhead... as opposed to a terminally manouvering missile.

    I suspect the fact that Oniks is not hypersonic, and Oniks II/Brahmos II is not operational let alone even in tests yet that they might be talking about the supersonic version of Klub where the body is a subsonic cruise missile and they payload is a supersonic warhead with control surfaces and seeker and of course large HE payload.

    The export models have a range of about 220km but their performance is restricted by various export agreements that limit range and payload of exported missiles.

    The domestic Klub cruise missile has a range of 2,500km... compared with the 290km range of the export equivalent, so would it be logical to assume therefore that the domestic version of the supersonic Klub has a range of 1,000km when the export missile can reach 220km?

    This of course raises targeting issues and worst case is a target 1,000km away that is steaming at full speed (they normally wont because that makes too much noise and their supporting vessels like subs are not very effective at detecting targets when they are doing 30knts+ so a more normal speed might be 25knts which is very fast compared with civilian traffic... ironically it will make military vessels stand out from civilian vessels of course and it will mean any support vessels will be left behind fairly quickly.

    A more realistic speed might be 16knts so lets do then both... 16 and 25.

    25knts is about 47km/h and 16knts is just under 30km/h.

    A Klub cruise missile has... according to its spec sheet a cruise speed of 240m/s so if we assume it climbs to medium altitude to maximise range and flys to 700km from the target area at 220m/s in a fuel saving throttle setting to maximise range and then drops down to low altitude and continues towards the target at full throttle for max speed at 240m/s then when it gets to 50km from the target the rocket stage is launched and accelerates up to "at least" 700m/s. Most references I have seen have quoted mach 2.9 though this claim of hypersonic would require mach 5 or faster though it might just be that hypersonic has become fashionable like stealth in terms of marketing.

    So (700km divided by .220) plus (250km divided by .240) plus (70km divided by (320 times 2.9)) = time in seconds from launch to impact. So that is 3182 + 1042 + 54 = 4278 seconds which is about 71 minutes.

    now in 71 minutes a ship travelling at 25 knots can cover about 57km and a ship travelling at 16knts can cover about 35.5km.

    Is that a problem? Not really. Ships are not sports cars and cannot change direction very quickly, and unless they are in open ocean their options in terms of directions they can sail s not infinite. When first detected and identified as targets their speed would be recorded so it is not like the missile would be launched to hit them where they were and arrive to find they are 57km away. If operating at 16knts when the missile is launched the missiles will be guiding initially to a point about 35km in front of where they are currently... if at that moment the whole group decides to accelerate to 25 knots and if the missiles launched get no further information when the missiles flying at medium height start looking for targets they will simply be 25km closer than they expected... the missile will still drop down but will accelerate to max speed and launch its warhead earlier than if the target had been further away.

    I would rather suspect that they if they are going to put 72 missiles into a single Oscar II that they could have one subsonic anti ship Klub fly high at full throttle on a dogleg path so it approaches the enemy vessels from a false direction (ie not the direction back to the sub that launched the missiles and more importantly not the direction the supersonic missiles are going to be arriving from). This high flying subsonic missile could listen for targets and onces it is close it could scan for targets with its radar and transmit its radar picture back to the supersonic missiles behind it (they will be behind it because not being a full throttle and flying lower it will take them longer to reach the target area). Even if the enemy shoots down the first missile it should have time to pass on critical target data live to the supersonic missiles, so they will have up to date information about the enemy ships which will now have to deal with 71 missiles screaming over the horizon at wavetop height at over 950m/s... and in a few years there will be Oniks-2/Brahmos-2

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Wed May 09, 2012 8:36 am

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?212191-9th-Virginia-class-SSN-delivered-a-year-ahead-of-Schedule&p=6164728&viewfull=1#post6164728

    A good example of why MP.net is a joke, and the expertise levels of "western sub fans".

    LOL! This guy knows more about Severodvinsk than Russian navy.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed May 09, 2012 8:48 am

    I replied to him but didnt want to pursue further.

    Most of the rumours of yasen is spread with respect to old ONI reports released in early 90's that compared Yasen broad band sound with Sea Wolf and rated it higher in broad band sound. This one



    Yasen has since then gone through atleast 2 design changes and the Yasen-M is 4+ class SSGN.

    I am told by some one who served in Russian Navy that the Akula can hold against any thing out there in its own territorial waters.

    Yasen gives Russian Navy a big assymetric advantage in Blue Seas of Pacific and Atlantic and can take on USN CBG

    If you read the book by Norman Polmar , when he showed ONI estimates to Russian Submarine Designer he laughed looking at it and said to him why do you think we will not get better than that Smile

    Norman Polmar concludes that Russian 4th Gen Subs will beat US submarine on Noise Level and exceeds its quiteness.

    But I should add one thing here submarine warfare is far more than quiteness and quiteness is just one critical of the 4-5 parameter at tactical level to compare two subs ......this whole myth of quiteness being every thing was created by US navy and its media because thats the only advantage they held for long , while Soviet Russian submarine were superior in Depth , Speed , Weapons , Nonacoustic sensors and Hydrodynamics.

    I am sure when US comes to know yasen is better in quiteness , they would turn back and say quiteness is not every thing Laughing

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Wed May 09, 2012 8:58 am

    Yeah, don't waste your time.

    gems like :

    "Akula-II at or below tactical speed is potentially quieter than a 688(i) at or below tactical speed, but her sonar is absolutely terrible compared to that of the American boat."
    "A Seawolf at its tactical speed is quieter than Severodvinsk at 10 knots, if she slows down the advantage only grows, and worse news for the Russian skipper is that his sonar is a few generations behind."

    -betray a person who probably read cold war era American (or British, whatever) literature, and though with great relief that in the 1980s the F-16 could handle any SOviet fighter thrown at it.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 11, 2012 3:52 am

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?212191-9th-Virginia-class-SSN-delivered-a-year-ahead-of-Schedule&p=6164728&viewfull=1#post6164728

    A good example of why MP.net is a joke, and the expertise levels of "western sub fans".

    LOL! This guy knows more about Severodvinsk than Russian navy.

    Just went to that link and had a short read and I was a little surprised at you Austin...

    artjomh , those db figures are from real world but those are just estimates ...just read up on Noise of Submarine on FAS and you will get more info.

    To be honest the only opinion in that thread I have any respect for is Artjomh.

    Artjomh to the Soviet and Russian Navy is like SOC to US intelligence... and for the same reasons.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri May 11, 2012 6:34 am

    Arjtomh is good no doubt but he is not infallible.

    He can be more courteous if he think he knows more than the rest rather then bombarding with unkind words.

    On the topic , you have to read lot of open source material available like those presented in US congress and from know unbaised author like Norman Polmar etc and then draw your own conclusion.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 11, 2012 12:38 pm

    The Severodvinsk hasn't been in the water all that long and her improved sister ships have not even hit the water yet, yet the US is giving performance information out like they know more than the Russian Navy does.

    It is nothing personal... I don't believe US information about how stealthy an F-22 really is or how stealthy they think the PAK FA might be either.

    Artjomh is certainly not infallible... no one is... not even me. angel

    But even when I don't agree with his opinions I still respect them... as with Vlad and SOC and Jonesy from Keypublishing. They served and have an idea of what they are talking about from personal experience...

    I am told by some one who served in Russian Navy that the Akula can hold against any thing out there in its own territorial waters.

    If you listen to this person... why don't you listen to Artjomh?

    On the topic , you have to read lot of open source material available like those presented in US congress and from know unbaised author like Norman Polmar etc and then draw your own conclusion.

    The Americans are perfectly happy to lie when it suits them.

    Look at the WMD debacle with Iraq as an example of using information and "estimates" that suited their agenda.

    Added to that the very strong US believe in its technical superiority and US strong propaganda and I really don't rate the information coming from the US. They will likely happily manipulate the evidence one way or the other to suit their current needs so I will not put much trust in the figures and charts they release.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri May 11, 2012 6:35 pm

    GarryB wrote:The Severodvinsk hasn't been in the water all that long and her improved sister ships have not even hit the water yet, yet the US is giving performance information out like they know more than the Russian Navy does.

    Those are estimates or trends what the ONI believes could be broadband noise quitening ..... but those are not gospel truth and things might not be as black and white as US Intelligence thinks.

    If you listen to this person... why don't you listen to Artjomh?

    Because he served on Russian SSBN for some time and had vast experience in the Navy on Surface Ships .....Artjomh opinion i do respect a lot but like i said he is not infallible.....no one is for that matter.

    The Americans are perfectly happy to lie when it suits them.

    Look at the WMD debacle with Iraq as an example of using information and "estimates" that suited their agenda.

    Added to that the very strong US believe in its technical superiority and US strong propaganda and I really don't rate the information coming from the US. They will likely happily manipulate the evidence one way or the other to suit their current needs so I will not put much trust in the figures and charts they release.

    It is true that USN might just inflate the threat to get budgets or simply might not have all the intelligence information they need to get the right information even if they do a honest assessment.

    But i have read many documents on this subjects from reputed US Authors , Critiques and Russian Navy Literature .....suffice to say this is a classified subject and its simply not possible to compare one is to one for any submarine even if information were to be available there are just too many variables.

    But if you ask my opinion i would say that Akula is a formidable enemy both in its own backyard and in open seas , there are many aspects to submarine performance both at tactical and strategic level and Noise is one of them.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 11, 2012 7:32 pm

    Wait, I never heard of Artjomh serving on a SSBN. Proof?

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri May 11, 2012 7:35 pm

    TR1 wrote:Wait, I never heard of Artjomh serving on a SSBN. Proof?

    Not Artjomh but the other guy is what i am talking about

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri May 11, 2012 9:21 pm

    Woops, reading fail on my part.

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    russian nuclear submarine force

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 12, 2012 2:27 am

    Those are estimates or trends what the ONI believes could be broadband noise quitening ..... but those are not gospel truth and things might not be as black and white as US Intelligence thinks.

    In other words guesses from an organisation with a very high opinion of itself... better than nothing but not much better.

    Because he served on Russian SSBN for some time and had vast experience in the Navy on Surface Ships .....Artjomh opinion i do respect a lot but like i said he is not infallible.....no one is for that matter.

    I was under the impression that Artjomh served in the Soviet/Russian navy.

    But if you ask my opinion i would say that Akula is a formidable enemy both in its own backyard and in open seas , there are many aspects to submarine performance both at tactical and strategic level and Noise is one of them.

    We know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the ocean depths. To suggest a Seawolf will always prevail is to assume your enemy is an idiot. Even the noisiest sub known to man can sit in its home port with its reactor shut down safely for hours with no noise emissions at all... tactics can compensate for a lot of perceived problems.

    I vaguely recall an incident that occurred during the cold war when Soviet Subs were ordered to go somewhere and changed to "war mode" and managed to slip past western ASW defences undetected... it is not impossible for there to be a noise maker fitted to Russians subs that gives them a distinctive signature and lull the west into a false sense of security, but when the brown stuff hits the fan can be turned off. Not the first surprise the Soviets played on the west.

    On a side note. Why doesn't one of you guys just invite artjomh to join this forum.
    I haven't posted in mp.net for a long while, and I don't even remember my password.

    My log in on MP.net doesn't work, otherwise I would be happy to give him a PM invite to come here.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sat May 12, 2012 10:36 am

    Artjomh AFAIK is not a serving or retd Military Officer

    The only one i know on mp.net was SmoothieX12 , unfortunately he was banned for petty reasons ( typical mp.net ) his resume that he shared is mentioned below


    I graduated in 1985 Caspian High Naval (Red Banner--only two of them existed in USSR) Academy of S.M.Kirov. Navigational faculty, specialist in gyro-inertial navigational complexes of the strategic missile systems (basic projects of SSBNs 667B-BD) but went on to serve on the surface fleet. One dive in the project 613 SSK was enough to convince me that I had enough of subs (although later I spent a lot of time on them, thankfully, mostly in the surface mode). As to give You impression who graduated my alma-mater, from Hero Of The Soviet Union (actually more than 30 of them graduated in different times) Admiral Zhiltsov to Admiral Arkhipov (You should now him as CS of 69 BRPL in Caribean Crisis) to Admiral Turilin and the list goes on and on. Even Evgenii Primakov studied for a couple of years in our alma-mater.

    Any one interested in Russian Submarine development and how it fares against US/NATO please read the thread below SmoothieX12 has provided some good details on this thread.

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?185135-Russian-subs-stalk-UK-SSBN-in-echo-of-Cold-War-*

    Garry you should get lot of answers on this thread.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sun May 13, 2012 11:11 am

    As far as ASW battle goes between NATO/US and Russia , We just know one side of the story and from US side . Russian Navvy does not offically comment on what it thinks about USN Submarine fleet and how/if there could be tracked etc ....one side of story no matter how real just gives you half of picture.

    I just wished RuN/MOD released some basic information on Noise level and what they think of USN threat , US makes a big noise when Akula visits US coast , RuN should also release information of USN submarine patrol in Russian waters and make a noise via media

    Any ways here is a 1997 report of USN think about Russian Submarine fleet , it may be old but it gives a good idea on how capable Russian submarine are and its gone better .......ofcourse 1997 was also the time when Gepard was not commisioned which took Akula class to the next level of technology advancement

    http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1997-07/catch-quiet-ones

    Despite denials that their submarines operate out of area, declassification of several recent Russian submarine deployments proves otherwise. 5 Akula-class submarines conducted unprecedented operations off our submarine bases at both Kings Bay, Georgia, and Bangor, Washington, in an attempt to detect and track our SSBNs. Oscar II submarines in both the Pacific and Atlantic conducted intercepts of our transiting aircraft carrier battle groups and amphibious ready groups. More recently, a Victor III submarine disrupted a major NATO exercise off the coast of Britain. These partings of the ASW curtain provide just a small glimpse of current frontline Russian nuclear submarine operations against our forces. They do not begin to address how difficult it is to detect and track the modern Russian nuclear-powered submarine.

    Russian advances in submarine quieting are well documented, but published estimates tend to emphasize a general impact on overall noise levels. 6 If we consider the submarine's median detection range (MDR)—the distance at which there exists a 50% probability of target detection on a single sonobuoy—we get a more accurate illustration of the challenge: Russian submarine MDRs are only a third of what they were ten years ago. Search patterns that once were spaced several miles apart today are spaced in yards. Individual sonobuoy contact time that once was measured in minutes now is measured in seconds. Reduced MDRs also have made dual aircraft operations nearly mandatory to increase the probability of detection on large-area search patterns to acceptable levels. It also is important to note that the high-speed capabilities of Russian submarines are of less concern to the ASW tactician, because MDRs increase significantly as speed increases. Slow-speed operations, however, are lethal. The MPA community myth regarding the short MDR Russian submarine may be somewhat inflated, but no one, including our allies, tracks an Akula class submarine at patrol speeds for long.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sun May 13, 2012 11:13 am

    I think the crux of matter as far as Akula submarine goes and it has beeen proven last year when US media released leaks of Akula patrolling US coast and then it was found in Canada and then it dissapeared etc

    No one can track an Akula for long at tactical speed , you can track it for some time but then it simply vanished without trace ..... not good if you look at from opponent perspective.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Tue May 15, 2012 7:30 am

    Makes an informed read

    Soviet and Russian nuclear submarine of the 4th and 5th generations Part 1

    Soviet and Russian nuclear submarine of the 4th and 5th generations. Part 2

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:43 pm

    Putin: Russian Navy to Recommission Mothballed Subs

    Russian Navy's submarine fleet will be reinforced not only with new subs but with decommissioned ones as well, reports Izvestiya referring to Russian president Vladimir Putin. As for him, it is impermissible that large number of submarines stay in reserve pending scheduled repairs. The president did not specify what submarines are in question. About 20 nuclear-powered and diesel subs are presently mothballed in Russia.

    As was reported in Sept 2011, Russian defense ministry decided to write off all Project 941 Akula strategic nuclear submarines by 2014. Russian Navy operates one sub of this class at the time – trial submarine SSBN Dmitry Donskoy. Other two such subs are in reserve; they are SSBN Severstal and SSBN Arkhangelsk. Basic weapons of Akula-class submarines – ballistic missiles R-39 and R-39U - are no longer in production.

    Later on, Russian defense ministry confuted reports about writing off the subs saying their future had not been determined so far. However, ITAR-TASS reported in March 2012 referring to a source in defense ministry that repair and modernization of Akula-class submarines would not be performed due to high cost comparable to construction of two new Project 955 Borei subs.

    According to different sources, there are five nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines, five nuclear-powered cruise missile submarines, seven nuclear-powered torpedo submarines, and three diesel electric submarines in reserve at Russian Navy. Putin said that State Arms Program 2011-2020 implied procurement of eight new Borei-class submarines and 16 multipurpose subs.

    Financing of the Navy rearmament program is evaluated as RUR 4.5 trillions. It is planned to build 51 surface ships.

    Fourth Borei-class nuclear submarine was laid down on July 30, 2012 in Severodvinsk under the improved Project 955A. Two Boreis have been already built (SSBN Yury Dolgoruky and SSBN Alexander Nevsky) and the third sub is currently under construction (SSBN Vladimir Monomakh).

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15513

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:32 pm

    Russian fifth-generation nuclear submarines will be after 2030

    Series production of nuclear submarines in the Russian fifth generation will begin after 2030. On Wednesday, December 19, RIA Novosti reported with reference to the Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov.

    Now the Navy submarine are the third generation. They were replaced in the near future will come fourth generation nuclear submarine project 955 "Borey" and 885 "Ash."

    According Chirkova, quoted by "Interfax", the first submarine of the "Northwind" - "Yuri Dolgoruky" - can be put into service until the end of 2012. "Subject to the completion of the final phase of testing of individual systems, which is currently carried out, signed acceptance certificate will be possible until December 30," - said the admiral.

    Earlier adoption of the "Yury Dolgoruky", which is armed with intercontinental ballistic missile R-30 "Bulava", repeatedly postponed. Until the end of 2012 as planned to complete state tests second submarine of project 955 "Alexander Nevsky".

    The lead ship of the "Ash", the submarine "Severodvinsk", according Chirkova, will join the Navy in 2013. Now, said the admiral, the submarine is a full-scale test. In November, the first submarine cruise missiles to shoot "Calibre" on ground targets. According Chirkova, submarine project "Ash" can engage ground targets in 1.5 thousand kilometers from the coast.

    Total Navy planned in 2020 to arm ten ships of the "Northwind". By 2021, as anticipated seven ships of the "clear."

    In the course of talking to journalists Viktor Chirkov also spoke about the construction of surface ships for the Navy. The admiral said that in the medium term basis naval surface forces in the far-and near-sea area of ​​the project will amount to 2235.0 frigates and corvettes Project 2038.0. According to the draft 2038.0 built three ships ("Guarding", "Savvy" and "Courageous"), two of which are accepted for service.

    The main ocean-going ships, according to Viktor Chirkov, in the medium term will be the destroyer of the new project. The ship will have a large impact and defensive capabilities, including in the field of missile defense.

    By 2016, according to the Commander, Navy will also receive six frigates of Project 1135.6. In 2013, the system will enter a large landing ship (LST) "Ivan Gren" Project 1171.1. BDK descent to the water is scheduled for May.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:02 pm

    Austin wrote:Russian fifth-generation nuclear submarines will be after 2030

    That does not mean we wont see another 4th generation SSN Very Happy Very Happy in 5000t-8000t class.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:10 am

    Viktor wrote:
    Austin wrote:Russian fifth-generation nuclear submarines will be after 2030

    That does not mean we wont see another 4th generation SSN Very Happy Very Happy in 5000t-8000t class.

    I think this and next decade they will build more Yasen class that is what they hinted at

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:28 pm

    They need to lay down more boats soon if the 2020 plan has any chance of being met, let alone more boats.
    I think it is safe to say at this point the 2020 date for 8 boats will not be met.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Hachimoto on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:51 pm

    This sierra upgrade is a good thing but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen and pretty much any new design .. whichi is kind of sad knowing the russian history

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:16 pm

    Hachimoto wrote:This sierra upgrade is a good thing but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen and pretty much any new design .. whichi is kind of sad knowing the russian history

    Funny thing is that the same thing could be said about the Borei class, until only recently, but now Russia is trying to make all 8 of them

    by 2018 which is 2 year before schedule.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:28 pm

    but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen

    I don't think that is a fair assumption. T-90AMs can easily be produced in numbers yet they upgrade T-72s.

    Most of it has to do with what they already have.

    Ti hulled vessels would be horrendously expensive to make now, so rebuilding them makes a lot of sense in terms of value for money.

    There will be issues with developing the Yasen, just as there were issues with developing the Lada and Lada-M... that is perfectly normal, and just shows these are brand new vessels rather than just warmed over upgrades... which is a very good thing in terms of performance.

    If you look at the air force they are making Su-30SMs as well as Su-35S and PAK FAs, and they are buying Mig-35s, which suggests they are prepared to spend money to get a good product into service.

    The total number of platforms is reducing so the new platforms have to perform the role of several old platforms, plus upgrades have a place too. A Mig-29SMT can perform the mission of the Mig-23 and the Mig-27 combined... in fact it can do both jobs even better than the previous generation aircraft. The Su-34 will replace 2-3 Su-24s each.

    The difference with the navy is that previously each ship had a customised set of sensors, propulsion, and weapons for its job. The Udaloy and Sov classes were similar sizes but had different weapons, different sensors, and even different propulsion systems. New and upgraded vessels will have multipurpose sensors, weapons, and propulsion and will be produced in larger production runs. The result will be cheaper to operate and maintain, cheaper training and repair, and much more formidable sensors and weapons loads.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:56 pm

    All submarines of Akula project 971 class will be repaired and modernized.


    So by 2020 we can expect:

    - 8 boats of project 885 (Yassen)
    - 11/12 boats of project 971(Akula) (does anyone know the right number - my guess is 11 or 12)
    - 4 boats of project 945 (Sierra)
    - 4 boats of project 671 (Victor)
    - 8 boats of project 949/A (Oscar) (I think 8 boats as I counted)

    So by 2020 we can expect these numbers of attack submarines to pass modernization and be built.

    Count number: 35/36

    Rather high number of capable boats.


    All submarine project "Pike-B" will be the average repair



    "Defense has decided to hold the third-generation submarine repair. Speaking specifically about the 971 project, the world two years ago and successfully defended a project to repair the ships," - said Dorofeyev.


    MOSCOW, March 19 - RIA Novosti. All nuclear submarines of project 971 (code "Pike-B") will be the average repair and with the "clear" the group will form the basis of multi-purpose submarines of the Navy of Russia in the next decade, according to RIA Novosti General Director of JSC "St. Petersburg Naval Machinery Bureau" Malachite "Vladimir Dorofeev.

    "Defense has decided to hold the third-generation submarine repair. Speaking specifically about the 971 project, the world two years ago and successfully defended a project to repair the ships. Now the first ship is already on the" star ", raised in the shop, and did are repairs, "- said Dorofeyev.

    The need for such measures due to the fact that during the existence of nuclear submarines of the third generation of multi-purpose, none of these ships did not pass the average depot repair, said Dorofeyev. By the summer of experts "Malachite" finished all the drawings for the repair and modernization of 971 project. First of all, the boats will be equipped with new electronic weapons complexes.

    "Contractions now is not one ship, but on a series of ships - in order to provide a clear program of the plant, group purchasing of the equipment. Appointed the following ships of the series. Upgraded 971 project will be a new quality. These boats, along with submarines under construction, Project 885 form the basis of a general-purpose naval forces of the domestic Navy "- said Dorofeyev


    LINK


    There are some reports about 7 and not 8 of the project 885 Yassen being build but all are unconfirmed.

    We could expect all project 885 contract signed up this year or in 2014 so this might be some pressure exhorting to lower the price

    as those boats are damn expensive.

    Anyway 6 is the smallest number we have heard and 8 is the maximum. So no surprises there.

    3/19/13 SEVEN AND NOT EIGHT SUBMARINES WILL BE IN "CLEAR"
    March 19 2013.

    RIA Novosti . A series of submarine project 885 "Yasen" will consist of seven instead of eight submarines of this class, said in an interview with RIA Novosti Director General of "St. Petersburg Naval Machinery Bureau" Malachite "Vladimir Dorofeev.

    Previously, the command of the Navy of the Russian Federation has stated its intention to order the eight multi-purpose submarine project 885 "Yasen". However, in the beginning of the year, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the Navy until 2020 will get seven boats of this project.

    "Now, the first ship of the series" Severodvinsk "is the factory sea trials and this year should be necessarily passed the Defense Ministry. Second," Kazan ", is now on the stocks," Sevmash. "We will build five more ships modernized series," - said Dorofeyev .

    Over a series of Project 885 submarines modernized definitely do not plan to make significant changes to the set of weapons and other systems, "clear", said Dorofeyev.

    "The issue of the third tab" Ash "is discussed, and it is, to some extent, a political question. From a technical point of view, the construction of the ship began the day after the signing of the contract, at the moment is a specific section on the stocks, technical readiness of over 10 percent. A bookmark can be done this year, "- he added.

    LINK


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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