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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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    Vann7

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:38 pm

    George1 wrote:
    Austin wrote:President Putin stated yesterday that 8 Borei and 8 Yasen will be built , so its no more 7 Yasen but 8 Smile

    russia doesnt need more SSNs? USA has about 60 in service

    At the moment submarines numbers between US and Russia are not that different..
    Russia have at the moment more than ~60 attack/ballistic submarines.. US have 71.

    (2012)

    http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Russia
    http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=United-States-of-America

    Most Russia subs are electric-diesel ,but they still can sink an Aircraft carrier or warship.. or another Submarine.
    Specially when their upgraded Kilos and next gen Yasen use same missiles.

    calripson

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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force

    Post  calripson on Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:36 pm

    In my opinion by far the most useful ship in the Russian navy is the Yassen class. In the history of naval warfare there is very little value in a "second best" surface fleet. The US navy has by far the greatest number of surface warfare combatants and is really the only navy with overwhelming conventional global capabilities. The one area that mitigates that advantage is submarine warfare and that has been true over a century. Kilo and successor classes provide a nice littoral counterforce problem for the US, but in a global respect only nuclear attack subs suffice. That is one reason the US puts such emphasis on its submarine anti-submarine capabilities. In a real world scenario (not showing the flag or for national pride) surface vessels like Slava Class ships have only a first strike value. They would be on the bottom of the ocean pretty quick in any naval conflict with the US via subs or aircraft. Of course, no one here knows just how good Russian subs are when compared to their NATO counterparts.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:51 am

    i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
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    navyfield

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  navyfield on Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:41 pm

    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:03 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.

    yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:37 pm

    George1 wrote:
    navyfield wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.

    yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive

    Don't bother with navyfield, he so far has not managed to post one worthwhile post.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:29 am

    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

    As I remember from some old edition of MDB, Russian Navy will go for lighter SSN.

    etaepsilonk

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:36 pm

    George1 wrote:
    navyfield wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.

    yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive

    You can pretty much say the same for every warship being built nowadays.

    And, personally, I don't think small SSN is a good idea.

    Today, almost every new boat is either SSBN, or SSGN/multipurpose. So, for the latter being larger means being more capable  russia 
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    collegeboy16

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:55 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Today, almost every new boat is either SSBN, or SSGN/multipurpose. So, for the latter being larger means being more capable  russia 
    I agree small nuke sub is not needed. Its not like Russias subs has to patrol the worlds oceans and guard carrier groups round the clock 24/7.
    If the murican navy could have its own way they would have seawolfs instead of virginias. And everyone would agree that a Seawolf is a much better analogue to Yasen than virginia could ever be.

    etaepsilonk

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    i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:11 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    If the murican navy could have its own way they would have seawolfs instead of virginias. And everyone would agree that a Seawolf is a much better analogue to Yasen than virginia could ever be.

    No. In fact, Virginia, all-round, is more capable than Seawolf.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:24 am


    Austin

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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force:2

    Post  Austin on Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:33 am


    So life increased by half would be 12-15 years after modernisation

    The exact number is 12 Submarine will be modernised

    6 Akula , 4 Oscar 2 , 2 Sierra-2  and 8 new Yasen class.

    So if all goes according to plans and funding provided , Russia will have 20 SSN/SSGN by 2020

    I just hope after what has happened in Ukraine they dont reduce defence funding for SAP 2020 and SAP 2015-2025 even if they have to eat grass.

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:53 pm

    Wooooo Interview withCEO CB "Malachite" Vladimir Dorofeev on Severdvinisk/Yasen Sub   thumbsup 


    http://www.rg.ru/2014/06/17/yasen-site.html
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    Flyingdutchman

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:19 pm

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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:38 pm

    what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:11 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?
    What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

    The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...
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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:47 am

    Mike E wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?
    What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

    The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:56 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Mike E wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?
    What is the 1/3? Akula's can fire em', the Sierra as well... - Don't forget that all subs with a 533 mm torpedo tube can fire the RK-55, or the Klub (GarryB?).

    The 65 has a range of 100 km, by the way...

    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.
    Anything with a 533 mm tube, or so I've heard... Any one else want to add on?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:24 am

    what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

    Subs and Ships of the Soviet Navy tended to have very specialised weapons.

    the main exception was the SS-N-14 which has a torpedo on a missile with a warhead and IR seeker.

    It was designed to fly to the target area under rocket propulsion at subsonic speed and then drop the torpedo into the water near where the enemy sub was expected.

    In the later models however there was a switch where the torpedo is not dropped and the whole weapon searches for and locks on to a ship using an IR sensor. There is a 300kg warhead on the rocket, plus the weight of the torpedo and its fuel make an excellent anti ship weapon... subsonic, but passive homing and very powerful payload.

    Most other weapons were single purpose... anti Ship or anti sub and none were land attack AND conventionally armed.

    New Russian Subs and ships and upgraded subs and ships have the UKSK system... or universal cruise missile launch system... which can carry land attack cruise missiles, subsonic and supersonic anti ship missiles and anti sub ballistic rocket delivery systems that deliver a torpedo out to about 40-50km.

    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

    Both can launch SS-N-21 Granat, which is the old nuclear armed Kalibr, which suggests Kalibr can also be carried and fired. It also says it can carry SS-N-15 and SS-N-16... which are 533mm and 650mm calibre ballistic rockets delivering a torpedo or depth charge for ASW use.


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    Mike E

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    what about the fact that 2/3 of russian attack subs only have ASW missiles, no AShMs?

    Post  Mike E on Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:26 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I thought the schukas and karps could fire only torpedos and ASW missiles. Well, I guess wikipedia fooled me this time.

    Both can launch SS-N-21 Granat, which is the old nuclear armed Kalibr, which suggests Kalibr can also be carried and fired. It also says it can carry SS-N-15 and SS-N-16... which are 533mm and 650mm calibre ballistic rockets delivering a torpedo or depth charge for ASW use.
    That is what I was thinking... If it can fire the Granat, it should be able to fire the very similar Kalibr. - Which would add a ton of flexibility to the subs.
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:49 pm


    par far

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    Borei-class SSΒΝ vs Virginia-class and Ohio-class SSBNs

    Post  par far on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:19 am

    How does the Borei class stack up against the American Virginia class and Ohio class submarines?

    Are Russian Submarines better than the American ones or is it the other way around?

    Also where does the Yasen class submarine rank?

    Can some please tell me all the submarines that Russia operates right and what submarines will Russia operate in the future?

    Will Russia export any submarines soon?

    par far

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  par far on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:21 am

    What future class submarines is Russia planning? I think that the Americans are building new submarines.

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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Mike E on Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:10 am

    par far wrote:How does the Borei class stack up against the American Virginia class and Ohio class submarines?

    Are Russian Submarines better than the American ones or is it the other way around?

    Also where does the Yasen class submarine rank?

    Can some please tell me all the submarines that Russia operates right and what submarines will Russia operate in the future?

    Will Russia export any submarines soon?
    The Virginia is a completely different kind of submarine, it should be excluded... As should the Yasen, this thread will get too cluttered with two different kinds of submarines. 

    No one can really say, though the Borei is a much newer and (currently) more advanced than the Ohio. There is a reason that the US is trying to replace the Ohio-class with a stop-gap ASAP. Borei should be much quieter, but at the same time is holds a smaller number of missiles (albeit more advanced missiles). 

    Virginia's are a much more recent development than the Ohio, so the age-gap between that and the Yasen is lesser than the one between the Ohio and Borei. The Virginia is a nice design, and a very potent one, but the Yasen should still be quieter (which is one of the most important aspects of a sub). Another thing to keep in mind is their armaments... Both countries use rather old and dated torpedoes, but Russia's heavy torp has a longer range than its uS counterpart. That being said, both subs' torp armament isn't very great and is pretty similar in general. The one advantage of the Yasen and Russian subs in general, is that they can fire the ridiculously fast Shkval super-captivating torpedo, which doesn't have a US counterpart. As for missiles, I believe that the Virginia is stuck to land-attack Tomahawks while the Yasen can carry multiple Kalibr's (land attack, anti-ship, ASW etc) including the ASW models (which out-range all US and Russian torpedoes). 

    As of right now, they are using the...

    SSBN's; Borei (2 active though one more is ready), Delta IV (six active), Delta III (3 active, will be outed soon) and one p.941 Typhoon.

    SSN's; Akula (9 in service, though this needs to be checked), Oscar (5 active AFAIK), Sierra (3 active, once again, this needs checking), and the Victor (4 active). 

    SSK's; Kilo (16?), Kilo 636 (1, but second model is almost ready), and the one Lada (more on the way).

    I'm sorry if some of these figures are wrong, it is a royal-pain-in-the-%$@ to find these numbers, at least it is for myself... 

    Anyway, in the near-future (decade from now)...

    You can expect the left-over Delta III and p.941 Typhoon model(s) to be decommissioned and scrapped at a later date. In their place, their will be the coming Borei's (eight ordered so far).

    The Victors will probably be thrown-out (so to speak), with the Sierra's still in service along with most of the Akula's, the phased-out subs will be replaced by the Yasen's (seven ordered, though hopefully some more can be added).

    The older Kilo's will be getting the boot, with the 636's and Lada's replacing them (Lada orders are not significant as of right now, though they will grow). - Maybe some 636's (I hope)...

    Amur will be exported.

    They are exporting the Kilo and 636 Kilo right now, and the Amur orders should be coming in soon, there is also the one Akula SSN under rent (something like that) in India right now.

    Russia is already beginning work on the Borei-replacement (long ways away), the Yasen-replacement is unknown... Finally, the Lada and maybe an upgrade of it will occur in large numbers. The US is only working on a cheaper (and much less effective) Virginia-class variant (for land-attack, hence the downgrades) and the stop-gap Ohio replacement (which should be fine).
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:31 am

    There are in reality only several 971s (Akula) active. The state of the fleet is terrible. Several are nominally active but not really ready to go to sea. 3-4 active at best today I would estimate.

    As for 945s (Sierra), only the Nizhn Nogorod is active. Though the Pskov is on factory trials after being repaired, so it should be back in service soon.

    Only 1 RTMK is in service, though two others might rejoin the fleet if Nerpa can get their shit together. The last (Petrazavodsk) has been essentially a donor vessel for some time.

    5 BDRMs are in service, Yekaterinburg is not back in fleet service yet.
    Dmitry Donskoy is only a test vessel, not a true combat ship anymore.

    As for actual characteristics and comparisons, beside "hard" info (missile types, number, age, etc) don't expect to find anything serious online.

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