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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Isos on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:18 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.....
    So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13
    .....


    And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

    Huge picture, 7776x4848:

    Yasen will start coming in really big numbers. They have modernized soviet era nuclear attack subs. Future diesel subs will have AIP so much more usefull than diesel subs they have now. And Oscar will get their new uksk vls.

    The russian navy will be much more powerfull than the soviet probably in 6 years because all their ships will be able to lunch kalibr oniks and tzirkon.

    walle83

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  walle83 on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:09 am

    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.....
    So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13
    .....


    And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

    Huge picture, 7776x4848:

    Yasen will start coming in really big numbers. They have modernized soviet era nuclear attack subs. Future diesel subs will have AIP so much more usefull than diesel subs they have now. And Oscar will get their new uksk vls.

    The russian navy will be much more powerfull than the soviet probably in 6 years because all their ships will be able to lunch kalibr oniks and tzirkon.

    Will Yasen-class start to come in "really big numbers"? Care to explain how this will happen?
    Yes Russia do overhaul and upgrade some of its older nuclear subs. But its going really slow, and most probably wont return to service before 2020-2025.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Isos on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:22 am

    walle83 wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:.....
    So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13
    .....


    And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

    Huge picture, 7776x4848:

    Yasen will start coming in really big numbers. They have modernized soviet era nuclear attack subs. Future diesel subs will have AIP so much more usefull than diesel subs they have now. And Oscar will get their new uksk vls.

    The russian navy will be much more powerfull than the soviet probably in 6 years because all their ships will be able to lunch kalibr oniks and tzirkon.

    Will Yasen-class start to come in "really big numbers"? Care to explain how this will happen?
    Yes Russia do overhaul and upgrade some of its older nuclear subs. But its going really slow, and most probably wont return to service before 2020-2025.

    They are building 6 of them if I'm not wrong. So they will be put into service one after the other really quickly. Now they don't have them but they will get those being build and that will change drasticly the level of technology of sub forces. While the old one are being upgraded also right now so they will come back with the yasen. So the number of subs will increase if they keep the old ones and get new ones.

    6 is a big number for sub forces. Specially if it is about Yasen class. But what's important here is that they will put into service all of them in the same period which should be 2020-2025.

    2025 will be the year where old rusty russian navy will no exist anymore. They will have plenty of new ships and far less old ships. Like new kilo, new yasen, new borei, and husky will be start in the shipyards.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:57 am

    I think we can forgett about the last Akula submarine. It just used for missile tests and for show off. Yes it can fire the Bulava missile but i think only one or two of its missile tubes was modified for that use. And all SS-N-20 missiles have been scrapped by now.

    The last Akula sub used for testing should not be forgotten... it would be ideal for testing a range of weapon and system types that would not require taking an operational sub off the line to do the same work.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue May 29, 2018 7:10 pm


    Podmoskovye spy sub, fresh photos with dorsal payload cradle:







    More photos: https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/107655/
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:25 am

    Construction schedule of Borei-A, Yasen and Husky



    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/193283.html
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:54 pm

    George1 wrote:Construction schedule of Borei-A, Yasen and Husky

    https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/navy_korabel/63221775/62442/62442_900.jpg

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/193283.html


    So 7-8 year build speed on average. Slower than USA but faster than France and UK.

    Boreis are definitely winners here, decent pace, lots of hulls and fortunately SSBN fleet is well stocked so no need to rush things.

    But that 5 year gap (at best) between last Yasen and first Husky is really concerning. Is Russian SSN fleet numerous and capable enough to absorb delivery gap that big? Seriously asking.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:00 pm


    Gepard almost ready


    hoom

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  hoom on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:37 pm

    At first I was like Suspect whats with that mast (?!), then I was all 'oh its just a rudder' Neutral
    but then I was Shocked


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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:04 am

    hoom wrote:At first I was like Suspect whats with that mast (?!), then I was all 'oh its just a rudder' Neutral
    but then I was Shocked
    .....

    Ahhh the good old Typhoon screwing around with people's sense of scale as usual.... Smile

    Also, I just noticed how massive Akulas are, usually they look like chunkier Kilo subs when on the surface. But here you can see how ginormus they are.

    This always happens to me when I look at subs, I always forget that 2/3 of them are underwater.

    You can imagine how I freaked out when I saw Oscar class in dry dock. Unlike Typhoons that look huge even when not submerged, Oscars look average sized at best on the surface but the whole thing is insane when seen in full.
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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Hole on Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:47 am

    Like a swimming sumo wrestler. Laughing

    hoom

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  hoom on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:05 am

    Those late Soviet subs really are THICC.

    Even Kilos are Kardashian ass scale wide.
    Kilo 9.9m beam is nearly as wide as LA/Virginia 10m, German Type 212 is only 6.8m.

    Akula 13.5m is fatter than Ohio 13m.

    I never forget a series of pierside comparisons I once saw:
    VictorIII (about same size as LA) looking tiny next to Akula
    Akula looking tiny next to Oscar
    Oscar looking tiny next to Typhoon

    slasher

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  slasher on Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:16 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Gepard almost ready



    When was this pic taken?

    hoom

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  hoom on Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:26 am

    Showed up on Balancer forum with this caption
    The submarine "Gepard" in PD-50
    Severomorsk, June 2018. Photo: Svyatoslav Morozov.

    slasher

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  slasher on Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:09 pm

    Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.

    nastle77

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:48 pm

    If the soviets wanted could they use the SSBN like Yankee and Delta I as backup SSN in the 80s ?
    I mean these boats had decent torpedo capacity like 18 each
    but could they be used against SSN against ships that might not have the best ASW weapons like older ASROC armed destroyers?
    I know they didnt need to but was it even possible ?

    Ned86

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Ned86 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:52 am

    slasher wrote:Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.
    It was in dry dock for a short period of time.
    Probably to fix some tiny problems and refresh the hull and make it quieter.
    It had similar "repair" at the same time last year in Nerpa.

    Northern Fleet has 9 active nuclear subs + Kazan in trials, which is definitely not low number of operational subs.
    Not to mention, Diesel electric subs, special purpose subs and SSBNs in Northern Fleet.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  slasher on Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:38 am

    Ned86 wrote:
    slasher wrote:Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.
    It was in dry dock for a short period of time.
    Probably to fix some tiny problems and refresh the hull and make it quieter.
    It had similar "repair" at the same time last year in Nerpa.

    Northern Fleet has 9 active nuclear subs + Kazan in trials, which is definitely not low number of operational subs.
    Not to mention, Diesel electric subs, special purpose subs and SSBNs in Northern Fleet.

    Thanks for the clarification @Ned86. However, according to Wikipedia.ru, these eight SSNs below are listed as currently operational. Is this correct and if so which would be the ninth?

    Project 971 - Active: 3 (K-317 Pantera, K-154 Tigr, K-335 Gepard)
    Project 945 - Active: 1 (B-276 - Kostroma)
    Project 945A - Active: 2 (B-534 Nizhny Novgorod, B-336 Pskov)
    Project 671RTMK - Active: 2 (B-138 Obninsk, B-414 Daniel Moskovsky)

    With regards to my initial observation, it was in reference to the fact that of the 10/11 Project 971 SSNs in hand, I was wondering, having seen the pic of the Gepard in dry dock, if that would have made it just three of these currently operational for the entire Navy. Also, units of the other older models are being/have been retired. 

    The Navy has indeed been addressing the issue of improving the quantity and quality of their SSN fleet though, with upgrades and new builds after having reached a critical state. Things are however expected to turn around in a couple years according to plans.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  franco on Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:14 pm

    slasher wrote:
    Ned86 wrote:
    slasher wrote:Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.
    It was in dry dock for a short period of time.
    Probably to fix some tiny problems and refresh the hull and make it quieter.
    It had similar "repair" at the same time last year in Nerpa.

    Northern Fleet has 9 active nuclear subs + Kazan in trials, which is definitely not low number of operational subs.
    Not to mention, Diesel electric subs, special purpose subs and SSBNs in Northern Fleet.

    Thanks for the clarification @Ned86. However, according to Wikipedia.ru, these eight SSNs below are listed as currently operational. Is this correct and if so which would be the ninth?

    Project 971 - Active: 3 (K-317 Pantera, K-154 Tigr, K-335 Gepard)
    Project 945 - Active: 1 (B-276 - Kostroma)
    Project 945A - Active: 2 (B-534 Nizhny Novgorod, B-336 Pskov)
    Project 671RTMK - Active: 2 (B-138 Obninsk, B-414 Daniel Moskovsky)

    With regards to my initial observation, it was in reference to the fact that of the 10/11 Project 971 SSNs in hand, I was wondering, having seen the pic of the Gepard in dry dock, if that would have made it just three of these currently operational for the entire Navy. Also, units of the other older models are being/have been retired. 

    The Navy has indeed been addressing the issue of improving the quantity and quality of their SSN fleet though, with upgrades and new builds after having reached a critical state. Things are however expected to turn around in a couple years according to plans.

    A better source http://russianships.info/eng/today/


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Ned86 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:57 am

    slasher wrote:

    Thanks for the clarification @Ned86. However, according to Wikipedia.ru, these eight SSNs below are listed as currently operational. Is this correct and if so which would be the ninth?

    Project 971 - Active: 3 (K-317 Pantera, K-154 Tigr, K-335 Gepard)
    Project 945 - Active: 1 (B-276 - Kostroma)
    Project 945A - Active: 2 (B-534 Nizhny Novgorod, B-336 Pskov)
    Project 671RTMK - Active: 2 (B-138 Obninsk, B-414 Daniel Moskovsky)
    Wikipedia is not good source of info.
    Regarding nuclear attack and cruise missiles SUBs operational are:

    Northern Fleet:

    Project 949A OSCAR II - Active 3
    Project 885 SEVERODVINSK- Active 1 + 1 in trials

    Project 945A SIERRA II- Active 2
    Project 971 AKULA- Active 2
    Project 671 VICTOR III-Active 1

    Pacific Fleet:
    Project 949A OSCAR II - Active 2
    Project 671 AKULA - Active 1

    Source
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    verkhoturye51

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    Russian navy composition in early October

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:10 pm

    Russian navy composition in early October

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/200105.html

    Note that number of operational SSNs dropped over summer from 6 to 4. Only 4 inactive ones will definitely be modernised, so basically, Russian underwater defence relies on Kilo class, until Husky boats start coming.

    Ned86

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Ned86 on Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:19 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:Russian navy composition in early October

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/200105.html

    Note that number of operational SSNs dropped over summer from 6 to 4. Only 4 inactive ones will definitely be modernised, so basically, Russian underwater defence relies on Kilo class, until Husky boats start coming.
    Don't try to spin facts and show things like Ru Navy has only 4 SSN + KILO class.

    Reality is:
    5 x Oscar II
    1 x Severodvinsk
    1 x Kazan (sea trials, soon)
    2 x Akula class (Gepard was just temporary in dry dock after long patrol, maybe is already fully active)
    2 x Sierra II class
    1 x Victor III class

    -----------------------------
    so, at this moment you have 12 Attack + Cruise missile nuclear subs ready to sail.

    plus by the end of the year we could have:
    2 x Akula
    K - 157 Vepr, (final stage of upgrade)
    K - 328 Leopard (deep modernization)

    1x Victor III
    B - 448 tambov (upgrade)

    1x Oscar II Omsk (overhaul)
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:37 am

    The SSN's primary role is ASW, that's why they r called hunter-killers in the USN. Other Russian subs such as SSGNs & SSKs r multi-role with land & anti-ship attack primary missions, they r poor substitutes for SSNs. The submarine fleet must be balanced, but it's not now.

    Ned86

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Ned86 on Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:06 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The SSN's primary role is ASW, that's why they r called hunter-killers in the USN. Other Russian subs such as SSGNs & SSKs r multi-role with land & anti-ship attack primary missions, they r poor substitutes for SSNs. The submarine fleet must be balanced, but it's not now.  

    Severodvinsk and Kazan submarines are listed as SSGN in that table, but they are far better than any other SSN in the Ru Navy and maybe even in the world.
    The fact that they have 8 missiles tubes and carry 32 missiles, doesn't downgrade their anti submarine capabilities.
    They are definitely the best subs in Ru navy. Their Sonars system, data processing and weapons systems are all new generation ones.
    Kilo class is primary anti submarine platform, only recent one have ability to fire missiles at ships and coastal targets.

    Point is, Ru navy doesn't  have only 4 nuclear attack subs. Roughly, right now there are around 40 operational subs in total, SSBN+SSGN+SSN+SSK. Others are in overhaul or modernization
    It is important to look at sub fleet in total, only then you can realize true size and power.

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