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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:43 pm

    Isos wrote:......
    Akula are very good. I still can't understand that they gave one of their best Akula to India while they needed it.

    Renting one Akula pays for construction of one brand new Yasen

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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:50 pm

    1. Sierra's aren't worth keeping they are junk, They are WELL past their prime and upgrading them is pointless has said by the Russian's themselves but hey internet experts know best.

    2. The Los class's active sensors were off the Kilo evaded the passive's, we do not know what would have changed if the Active Sensors where on.

    3. Oscar's aren't better than Los Class, the Oscar's weren't designed to deal with other subs, they would be detected and sunk fairly easy by a hostile attack submarine and Sierra's aren't more advance a single Los would wreck a sierra. Saying fanboy but then posting such a fanboy statement is cute. Oscar's and Sierra's would be destroyed verse a Los, the akula 1 would stand a fair chance, akula 2's are a bit better and the akula three is better, the Yasen are better.

    "cold war relic" last I checked the majority of the Russian fleet is "Cold War Relics" that are old and in need of vast upgrades, lol this is biased statement alright.

    4. It should be noted there are different flights of Los class submarines, The first flight, second and third each different.

    5. sierra's can go as deep as they want, they won't be able to hide, they are too loud and too old, that is why Russia stopped trying to upgrade them they seen it was just a huge waste of money.

    6. Los Angeles isn't a "60"s sub, first one was commissioned in 1972, and none of the first flight versions remain in active service, well some are used has training subs only Second and Third Flight versions remain all of which was built past the 80's with better subsystems. Ignorance at it's best.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:44 pm

    Some retarded statements and fake news:

    -Sierras are noisy
    -Sierras are junk
    -Virginias are nuclear powered Kilos
    etc. etc.

    Reality:

    -Russia is keeping two of the Sierras, the other two would cost too much to modernize (as much as building a new one)
    -Deeper diving depth means less cavitation noise (means a sub can travel faster at deeper depth without making too much noise). Sierras are employed with different tactics than Akulas or American subs
    -Oscars are hard to detect
    -Virginia is less capable than Seawolf only in some aspects, in other aspects it is just as good
    -Virginia built rate started slow (1 per year), the rate is building up to be 2 per year
    -Los Angeles class is still useful but will fade away quickly as they are getting old and will cost too much to maintain/upgrade them




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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Isos on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:51 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:......
    Akula are very good. I still can't understand that they gave one of their best Akula to India while they needed it.

    Renting one Akula pays for construction of one brand new Yasen


    They could have gave one older. Seriously plus those indians let US sailors on bord. They should take it back.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:29 pm

    As far as I know, modernization of Sierras isn't cancelled. They've modernized the third last year and the forth is about to enter Zvezdochka.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:02 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:As far as I know, modernization of Sierras isn't cancelled. They've modernized the third last year and the forth is about to enter Zvezdochka.

    You are correct. I confused myself with 2 other subs.
    I just updated my information:

    The two later pr.945A class (Sierra 2) are in service.
    The two earlier pr.945 class (Sierra 1) are not. The Karp is still in modernization at Zvezdochka, the Kostroma is expected to undergo modernization afterwards.

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    Hole

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Hole on Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:17 pm

    The building rate concerned: Amiland isn´t building SSBN´s or SSK´s, like Russia is doing. From this perspective, their rate of 1 - 2 Virginias (Los Angeles III) isn´t so impressive.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:34 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:
    -Virginia is less capable than Seawolf only in some aspects, in other aspects it is just as good
    -Virginia built rate started slow (1 per year), the rate is building up to be 2 per year




    -virginia cheaper, has better computers , has VLS , but can't dive as deep and not as fast as the seawolfs.

    So, a seawolf is effective to hunt down virginias, and the virginia is effective to attack targets on land: )

    It is similar like to say a 2018 BMW is way better in many aspect than a T-72 tank.
    It is true, but irrelevant.

    -They would like to increase the number of commissioned Virginias. Like the US wanted to introduce the F-35 half decade earlier into the service then its actual delivery date.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Isos on Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:48 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:
    TheArmenian wrote:
    -Virginia is less capable than Seawolf only in some aspects, in other aspects it is just as good
    -Virginia built rate started slow (1 per year), the rate is building up to be 2 per year




    -virginia cheaper, has better computers , has VLS , but can't dive as deep and not as fast as the seawolfs.

    So, a seawolf is effective to hunt down virginias, and the virginia is effective to attack targets on land: )

    It is similar like to say a 2018 BMW is way better in many aspect than a T-72 tank.
    It is true, but  irrelevant.

    -They would like to increase the number of commissioned Virginias. Like the US wanted to introduce the F-35 half decade earlier into the service then its actual delivery date.

    Or maybe all those US information about Seawolf being a super sub are lies and they found out that for its super price the seawolf is not that much better than virginia, probably on the same lvl, and they stoped its construction for a more economical sub. It's not like they would say to people that one of their military stuff is bad. Same with Zumwalt they probably found out it isn't that great and Burkes had much more advantages. It's not only about weapons. Those things are size of buildings that need to work 24/7.
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    Singular_Transform

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:18 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Or maybe all those US information about Seawolf being a super sub are lies and they found out that for its super price the seawolf is not that much better than virginia, probably on the same lvl, and they stoped its construction for a more economical sub. It's not like they would say to people that one of their military stuff is bad. Same with Zumwalt they probably found out it isn't that great and Burkes had much more advantages. It's not only about weapons. Those things are size of buildings that need to work 24/7.

    ?

    It is not two competing design , it is the dame design team and same manufacturer delivered two, different weapon system ,developed in sequence.

    Your logic can be true for say grippen vs mig vs sukhoi comparison .


    The story of the Zumwalt is simple: The recognised that the special, nice gun projectile cost as much as per piece as a tomahawk, it rendered the whole zumwalt thingy into an oversized, funky shaped burke. Costing way more than the burkes.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:41 pm


    Can anyone type a quick list of RuN nuclear attack subs and number of them per class (just class and number, not individual ships) that are in service now and those that are undergoing overhaul?

    We have Sierras, Akulas, Oscars and Yasens but how many of each exactly right now?

    I am getting lost in those spreadsheets in Russian....
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  franco on Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:46 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Can anyone type a quick list of RuN nuclear attack subs and number of them per class (just class and number, not individual ships) that are in service now and those that are undergoing overhaul?

    We have Sierras, Akulas, Oscars and Yasens but how many of each exactly right now?

    I am getting lost in those spreadsheets in Russian....

    Top figure is total, check individual fleets to see those submarines operational.

    http://russianships.info/eng/today/
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:51 pm

    Minus first two Pacific fleet submarines - Podolsk and Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets, as they were decomissioned last month.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  franco on Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:28 pm

    verkhoturye51 wrote:Minus first two Pacific fleet submarines - Podolsk and Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets, as they were decomissioned last month.

    Don't believe they have been decommissioned yet, but the tender to dismantle them after they are, was put out.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:28 pm

    franco wrote:
    Top figure is total, check individual fleets to see those submarines operational.
    http://russianships.info/eng/today/
    verkhoturye51 wrote:Minus first two Pacific fleet submarines - Podolsk and Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets, as they were decomissioned last month.


    Okay so according to this website I am coming up with following numbers of nuclear submarines in use, correct me if I'm wrong:


    SSBN: 10 total (3 Borei-class + 7 Delta-class) 2 Deltas are in overhaul, I am not counting last Typhoon-class since it's just there for testing

    SSGN: 9 total (8 Oscar-class + 1 Yasen-class) 2 Oscars are in overhaul but are not slated for decommission unlike Akulas

    SSN: 13 total (4 Sierra-class + 2 Victor-class + 7 Akula-class) I have no idea what exactly here is slated for repair and what for decommission so I'll just count ones in use now



    So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13


    Is this right?
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:35 pm

    [quote="PapaDragon"]
    franco wrote:So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13


    Is this right?

    Pretty much.
    And looking at the SSN numbers begs the question, is it enough?

    Don't think so, for the size of patrol areas of Russia.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:50 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:.......
    Pretty much.
    And looking at the SSN numbers begs the question, is it enough?

    Don't think so, for the size of patrol areas of Russia.


    Yeah it's bit anemic but that gap can be plugged by spamming non-nuclear subs like Kilos (and later ones). Work the littoral area with those and send SSNs further out.

    I still wonder if they plan on pursuing SSN version of Husky or will they just skip it go with all SSGN fleet like USA did (Los Angeles and Virginia) That seems to be target approach given Yasen design.

    But as long as SSBN and SSGN numbers are stable then it's all pretty much okay. If gap shows up there there is no way to plug it with Kilos so they better keep eyes on the ball. Fortunately they seem to be doing it.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  franco on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:13 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    franco wrote:
    Top figure is total, check individual fleets to see those submarines operational.
    http://russianships.info/eng/today/
    verkhoturye51 wrote:Minus first two Pacific fleet submarines - Podolsk and Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets, as they were decomissioned last month.


    Okay so according to this website I am coming up with following numbers of nuclear submarines in use, correct me if I'm wrong:


    SSBN: 10 total (3 Borei-class + 7 Delta-class) 2 Deltas are in overhaul,  I am not counting last Typhoon-class since it's just there for testing

    SSGN: 9 total (8 Oscar-class + 1 Yasen-class) 2 Oscars are in overhaul but are not slated for decommission unlike Akulas

    SSN: 13 total (4 Sierra-class + 2 Victor-class + 7 Akula-class) I have no idea what exactly here is slated for repair and what for decommission so I'll just count ones in use now



    So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13


    Is this right?

    I think that the 2 SSBN's that the tender for their demolition was announced last month are still active. The tender process was started while awaiting the arrivals of their replacements.
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:23 pm

    SSBN: there are 8 Deltas in comission, 7 Delta IV and 1 Delta III, all finished overhaul. Dmitry is part of the fleet and is able to fire Bulavas

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul) OK

    SSN: 4 Sierra (3 active, 1 in modernization)+ 3 Victor (active) + 11 Akula (6 active, 5 in modernization) = 18.


    Right now total numbers are 14 + 9 + 18 + Kilos and Ladas = 63 + reserve fleet > US submarine fleet
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:01 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:

    Cost saving is the idea behind Husky, but I still hope they'll make a SSBN version quieter and more resistant against torpedo hits, a SSN faster and deeper diving and so on.

    indeed making "up-armored" SSBN/SSN version could make fairly resistant against smaller torpedoes ... something like T-34 against 37mm guns.





    verkhoturye51 wrote:Nice!

    Weird thing in the bow doesn't really resemble VLS. Current trends in Russian submarine building favour big sonars in the bow and torpedos/missiles in the middle of the boat anyway.

    So all in all it's just 8 VLSs in the middle of a hull or half of Yasen's capacity, which is consistent with official releases, signaling size much under Yasen's.

    And that pump jet propulsor looks stealthy, too. Can't wait too see her get wet in 2-3 years!


    agree bad ass looks - especially "bondisch" sail's windows. Whether it's smaller than Yasen? unlikely - loom as size of sail's doors or VLS for Calibrs - Calibr is ~8 m long.
    Torpedo tubes are visible (in higher res) in front upper part of


    Is should have also some hidden modules to store robots or perspective weaponry.


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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    verkhoturye51

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:16 am

    5- hull Typhoon was able to survive a torpedo hit.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:43 am

    verkhoturye51 wrote:SSBN: there are 8 Deltas in comission, 7 Delta IV and 1 Delta III, all finished overhaul. Dmitry is part of the fleet and is able to fire Bulavas

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul) OK

    SSN: 4 Sierra (3 active, 1 in modernization)+ 3 Victor (active) + 11 Akula (6 active, 5 in modernization) = 18.


    Right now total numbers are 14 + 9 + 18 + Kilos and Ladas = 63 + reserve fleet > US submarine fleet

    Some corrections and additions for subs in service:

    SSBN:
    1 Typhoon class - Dimitry Donskoi
    3 Borei class - Dolgoruky, Nevsky and Monomakh
    6 Delta IV class - Verkhoturye, Ekaterinburgh, Tula, Bryansk (in modernization), Karelia and Novomoskovsk
    3 Delta II class - Podolsk, Georgy Pobedanosetz, Ryazan (2 of them will be retired soon)

    SSGN
    1 Yasen class- Severodvinsk
    8 Oscar class - Voronezh, Smolensk, Tver, Orel, Tomsk, Irkutsk, Chelyabinsk and Omsk (the last 3 are in modernization)

    SSN
    2 Sierra I class - Kostroma and Karp (in modernization)
    2 Sierra II class - Zubatka and Okun
    11 Akula class - Kashalot, Bratsk, Magadan, Kuzbass, Samara, Panthera, Volk, Leopard, Tigr, Vepr and Gepard (7nof them are in modernization)
    3 Victor III class - Obninsk, Danil Moskovsky and Tambov

    SSK
    20 Kilos class (approximate)

    Special Submarines
    1 Podmoskovye (ex- Delta IV class)
    1 Orenburg (ex- Delta III class)
    1 Sarov
    ? Losharik
    ? etc.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:07 am

    franco wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:............

    So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13


    Is this right?

    I think that the 2 SSBN's that the tender for their demolition was announced last month are still active. The tender process was started while awaiting the arrivals of their replacements.

    I know, I already deducted those two


    Last edited by PapaDragon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:02 pm; edited 2 times in total

    walle83

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  walle83 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:11 am

    I think we can forgett about the last Akula submarine. It just used for missile tests and for show off. Yes it can fire the Bulava missile but i think only one or two of its missile tubes was modified for that use. And all SS-N-20 missiles have been scrapped by now.
    Also the submarine had its overhaul in 2002 so it will soon need major repairs and overhaul again. Doubtfull Russia will pay for that once again when they can spend that money on new Borei subs insted.
    Just like Kirovs cruisers this Soviet killer is just a wounderfull sight, but in reality it belongs in the past and not in the modern Russian navy. Scrap it and spend the money on something better.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:.....
    So in use at the moment:

    SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

    SSN: 13
    .....


    And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

    Huge picture, 7776x4848:

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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