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Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion
George1- Posts : 11928
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GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 3185
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- Post n°277
Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion
GunshipDemocracy on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:20 am
George1 wrote:Karp and Kostroma will not be repaired
If funds go for more Husky or Yasen then good option was chosen
George1- Posts : 11928
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The naval composition and construction of the Naval Strategic Nuclear Forces of the Russian Navy as of 01.01.2018
https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/180062.html#cutid1
https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/180062.html#cutid1
George1- Posts : 11928
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The ship's composition and construction of the Naval Strategic Nuclear Forces of the Russian Navy as of 01.02.2018
Bryansk scheduled for upgrade post March 2018
https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/181768.html
Bryansk scheduled for upgrade post March 2018
https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/181768.html
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 860
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Good recap: http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/192560/?cba=1
If modifying the Typhoons wasn't so expensive, they too could be modified for Calibres. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon-class_submarine#History
Meanwhile, the Borey #s may eventually be cut to save more $.
If modifying the Typhoons wasn't so expensive, they too could be modified for Calibres. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon-class_submarine#History
Meanwhile, the Borey #s may eventually be cut to save more $.
PapaDragon- Posts : 7082
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Tsavo Lion wrote:...................
Meanwhile, the Borey #s may eventually be cut to save more $.
They will never cut Boreis before they develop replacment it's the only SSBN they have in production
The very idea of it is nonsense
Tsavo Lion- Posts : 860
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Time will tell! The US will soon build more BMD sites, incl. on the E. Coast, to cover all vectors. The new fad is "non-nuclear deterrence", so
costly Boreys r redundant & a burden on the budjet!
As I mentioned on another tread, sea bottom based BMs r enough & lake Baikal could host those &/ smaller subs with Sineva SLBMs as well. Such subs won't need any torpedoes, countermeasures & personnel to defend itself.
costly Boreys r redundant & a burden on the budjet!
As I mentioned on another tread, sea bottom based BMs r enough & lake Baikal could host those &/ smaller subs with Sineva SLBMs as well. Such subs won't need any torpedoes, countermeasures & personnel to defend itself.
PapaDragon- Posts : 7082
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Tsavo Lion wrote:Time will tell! The US will soon build more BMD sites, incl. on the E. Coast, to cover all vectors.
You do realize that they will never be able to intercept enough missiles to prevent extermination of population? Those sites are irrelevant for Russian naval planning.
Tsavo Lion wrote:...The new fad is "non-nuclear deterrence", so
costly Boreys r redundant & a burden on the budjet!
This is ehhenia level nonsense....
What is next? USN will scrap their CVNs?
Tsavo Lion wrote:As I mentioned on another tread, sea bottom based BMs r enough & lake Baikal could host those &/ smaller subs with Sineva SLBMs as well. Such subs won't need any torpedoes, countermeasures & personnel to defend itself.
Lake Baikal? Are you kidding me?
They already have something better in that region, it's called Topol-M and Yars.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 3185
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- Post n°284
Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion
GunshipDemocracy on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:14 am
PapaDragon wrote:Tsavo Lion wrote:As I mentioned on another tread, sea bottom based BMs r enough & lake Baikal could host those &/ smaller subs with Sineva SLBMs as well. Such subs won't need any torpedoes, countermeasures & personnel to defend itself.
Lake Baikal? Are you kidding me?
They already have something better in that region, it's called Topol-M and Yars.
Baikal not but sea-bottom it is already being implemented.
Bondarev: Russian Armed Forces have hypersonic "Zircon" missiles and Skif sea-bottom based missiles
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4746647
"According to open sources, developmental work "SKIF" involves the creation of transport-launch container for ballistic missiles, which will allow you to run them with great depth"
Подробнее на ТАСС
Skiff - Wiki
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Скиф_(ракета)
"Scythian" is a promising ballistic missile of the sea-bottom basing. It is developed by the design bureau "Rubin" and the State Missile Center named after Academician Makeev , commissioned by the Defense Ministry. The "Skif" ballistic deep-sea rocket is capable of being in standby mode on the sea or ocean floor before receiving the launch command. [1]
PapaDragon wrote:Tsavo Lion wrote:Time will tell! The US will soon build more BMD sites, incl. on the E. Coast, to cover all vectors.
You do realize that they will never be able to intercept enough missiles to prevent extermination of population?
If AMD can stop enough warheads to have "acceptable extermination" of population then it is a successful project and no strategical balance.
Kimppis- Posts : 506
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How exactly would they cut the Borei numbers? From the current 8? Or from the total 12, 4 of which (Borei-B) won't be built anytime soon anyway? PapaDragon is totally correct, that won't happen.
Peŕrier- Posts : 291
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Russia is likely pursuing to maintain a 12 to 16 SSBNs fleet.
They are obviously quite on track and there is no reason they would cut Borei's numbers.
The project is sound and build time is after all reasonable.
the first eight are all nearing completion, and at least the Delta III should in a few years start to be retired if Russia plans for a 12 boats SSBN fleet.
If the Delta III would not be retired within the next few years,it would mean Russia is aiming at an even greater number of SSBNs.
Any cut under the 12 boats SSBN fleet limit is just not possible.
They are obviously quite on track and there is no reason they would cut Borei's numbers.
The project is sound and build time is after all reasonable.
the first eight are all nearing completion, and at least the Delta III should in a few years start to be retired if Russia plans for a 12 boats SSBN fleet.
If the Delta III would not be retired within the next few years,it would mean Russia is aiming at an even greater number of SSBNs.
Any cut under the 12 boats SSBN fleet limit is just not possible.
George1- Posts : 11928
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Project 667BDR (Delta III) SSBNs - K-223 Podolsk, K-433 Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets, removed from service
This leaves only one operational Project 667BDR/Delta III submarine - Ryazan, which returned from overhaul in February 2017.
http://russianforces.org/blog/2018/03/two_project_667bdr_submarines.shtml
This leaves only one operational Project 667BDR/Delta III submarine - Ryazan, which returned from overhaul in February 2017.
http://russianforces.org/blog/2018/03/two_project_667bdr_submarines.shtml
PapaDragon- Posts : 7082
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George1 wrote:Project 667BDR (Delta III) SSBNs - K-223 Podolsk, K-433 Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets, removed from service
This leaves only one operational Project 667BDR/Delta III submarine - Ryazan, which returned from overhaul in February 2017.
http://russianforces.org/blog/2018/03/two_project_667bdr_submarines.shtml
Removed for overhaul or removed permanently?
George1- Posts : 11928
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PapaDragon wrote:
Removed for overhaul or removed permanently?
A few days ago Rosatom put out a request for tenders for "unloading spent nuclear fuel from decommissioned submarines of the Project 667BDR class, Nos. 395 and 397" (h/t @7FBTK). These submarines are K-223 Podolsk and K-433 Svyatoy Georgiy Pobedonosets respectively. I take it these two submarines have been withdrawn from service.
GarryB- Posts : 18153
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So there are two Delta IIIs in service... the one SSBN you mention after its overhaul and the one that was modified into a mothership for mini subs and other undersea "research"...
George1- Posts : 11928
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Naval composition and construction of the Naval Strategic Nuclear Forces of the Russian Navy as of 01.04.2018
https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/186982.html
https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/186982.html
verkhoturye51
verkhoturye51- Posts : 96
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- Post n°292
Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion
verkhoturye51 on Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:04 pm
Can someone translate what's going on with Tula and Bryansk?
George1- Posts : 11928
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verkhoturye51 wrote:Can someone translate what's going on with Tula and Bryansk?
Τula completed overhaul in late December and its in phase of entering back in service. Bryansk entered overhaul after Tula
PapaDragon- Posts : 7082
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Man, I want them to order another Yasen SSGN so hard.
Seriously what's the holdup? They need it and I know they are good for it...
Big_Gazza- Posts : 1336
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Yasen are usually laid down in July (5 of 6 of the 855Ms have been) , I assume because its the Northern summer? I guess we'll find out soon-ish if a 7th hull is in the works...
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- Post n°296
Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion
verkhoturye51 on Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:16 am
Chances for another Yasen are insignificant, because seven were initially planned:
They are the most expensive sumarines made in the recent history, even more than Seawolf class. Even US navy couldn't afford 3,5 bn submarines, let alone Russia. Thus, they're getting ready for the first boat of new, cheaper Husky class, which should be laid down in 2020/2021
This summer, Malakhit will present the design.
They are the most expensive sumarines made in the recent history, even more than Seawolf class. Even US navy couldn't afford 3,5 bn submarines, let alone Russia. Thus, they're getting ready for the first boat of new, cheaper Husky class, which should be laid down in 2020/2021
This summer, Malakhit will present the design.
PapaDragon- Posts : 7082
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verkhoturye51 wrote:Chances for another Yasen are insignificant, because seven were initially planned:
They are the most expensive sumarines made in the recent history, even more than Seawolf class. Even US navy couldn't afford 3,5 bn submarines, let alone Russia. Thus, they're getting ready for the first boat of new, cheaper Husky class, which should be laid down in 2020/2021
This summer, Malakhit will present the design.
They planned more than seven
And while they are expensive they are also worth every cent
Waiting for Husky this long would be pretty dumb, it's 3 years away at earliest and that without taking into account mandatory delays that always occur, they should use those 3 years instead of wasting time
They finally warmed up production of Yasen class so they should take advantage of it while they still can, saving several hundred million on a product like SSGN is pretty insignificant given what you get in the end
Big_Gazza- Posts : 1336
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Get serious, the $3.5B "cost" of Kazan incorrectly includes all the R&D, design documentation and revised tooling for the entire 885M series ... the costs should be spread out over the full program to appreciate the true costs, not all lumped onto the lead vessel of the series.
Someone is playing dirty politics with this agitprop BS.
Someone is playing dirty politics with this agitprop BS.
Isos- Posts : 2183
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Big_Gazza wrote:Get serious, the $3.5B "cost" of Kazan incorrectly includes all the R&D, design documentation and revised tooling for the entire 885M series ... the costs should be spread out over the full program to appreciate the true costs, not all lumped onto the lead vessel of the series.
Someone is playing dirty politics with this agitprop BS.
It's not BS, the minister of defence at the time had concerns about the growing prices of this project and it had to do with corruption. The project shouldn't be that much expensive now. It has the design of Akula and the VLS are build in big numbers for all the ships of Russian forces so if they keep with Yasen the cost could be greatly reduced to a very good price.
Husky is supposed to be less capable than Yasen. It is actually the basis for a SSN ( cheaper and smaller and less capable than Yasen) and a SSGN which we don't know the number of missiles carried which is the principal capability of a SSGN.
The price for those two Husky variant should be great too and not that much diferent from Yasen so in my opinion they will make the same mistake as geting Sovs and Udaloys instead of 1 better destroyer. So instead of having 20 Yasen they could end up with 10 SSN husky and 10 SSGN husky.
PapaDragon- Posts : 7082
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Going with anything less capable than Yasen is flat out stupidity and criminal negligence
USA, China and Europe are not sitting on their asses (first two at least), there is no going back in this game
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