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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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    Austin

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Tue May 15, 2012 7:30 am

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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:43 pm

    Putin: Russian Navy to Recommission Mothballed Subs

    Russian Navy's submarine fleet will be reinforced not only with new subs but with decommissioned ones as well, reports Izvestiya referring to Russian president Vladimir Putin. As for him, it is impermissible that large number of submarines stay in reserve pending scheduled repairs. The president did not specify what submarines are in question. About 20 nuclear-powered and diesel subs are presently mothballed in Russia.

    As was reported in Sept 2011, Russian defense ministry decided to write off all Project 941 Akula strategic nuclear submarines by 2014. Russian Navy operates one sub of this class at the time – trial submarine SSBN Dmitry Donskoy. Other two such subs are in reserve; they are SSBN Severstal and SSBN Arkhangelsk. Basic weapons of Akula-class submarines – ballistic missiles R-39 and R-39U - are no longer in production.

    Later on, Russian defense ministry confuted reports about writing off the subs saying their future had not been determined so far. However, ITAR-TASS reported in March 2012 referring to a source in defense ministry that repair and modernization of Akula-class submarines would not be performed due to high cost comparable to construction of two new Project 955 Borei subs.

    According to different sources, there are five nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines, five nuclear-powered cruise missile submarines, seven nuclear-powered torpedo submarines, and three diesel electric submarines in reserve at Russian Navy. Putin said that State Arms Program 2011-2020 implied procurement of eight new Borei-class submarines and 16 multipurpose subs.

    Financing of the Navy rearmament program is evaluated as RUR 4.5 trillions. It is planned to build 51 surface ships.

    Fourth Borei-class nuclear submarine was laid down on July 30, 2012 in Severodvinsk under the improved Project 955A. Two Boreis have been already built (SSBN Yury Dolgoruky and SSBN Alexander Nevsky) and the third sub is currently under construction (SSBN Vladimir Monomakh).

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15513

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:32 pm

    Russian fifth-generation nuclear submarines will be after 2030

    Series production of nuclear submarines in the Russian fifth generation will begin after 2030. On Wednesday, December 19, RIA Novosti reported with reference to the Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov.

    Now the Navy submarine are the third generation. They were replaced in the near future will come fourth generation nuclear submarine project 955 "Borey" and 885 "Ash."

    According Chirkova, quoted by "Interfax", the first submarine of the "Northwind" - "Yuri Dolgoruky" - can be put into service until the end of 2012. "Subject to the completion of the final phase of testing of individual systems, which is currently carried out, signed acceptance certificate will be possible until December 30," - said the admiral.

    Earlier adoption of the "Yury Dolgoruky", which is armed with intercontinental ballistic missile R-30 "Bulava", repeatedly postponed. Until the end of 2012 as planned to complete state tests second submarine of project 955 "Alexander Nevsky".

    The lead ship of the "Ash", the submarine "Severodvinsk", according Chirkova, will join the Navy in 2013. Now, said the admiral, the submarine is a full-scale test. In November, the first submarine cruise missiles to shoot "Calibre" on ground targets. According Chirkova, submarine project "Ash" can engage ground targets in 1.5 thousand kilometers from the coast.

    Total Navy planned in 2020 to arm ten ships of the "Northwind". By 2021, as anticipated seven ships of the "clear."

    In the course of talking to journalists Viktor Chirkov also spoke about the construction of surface ships for the Navy. The admiral said that in the medium term basis naval surface forces in the far-and near-sea area of ​​the project will amount to 2235.0 frigates and corvettes Project 2038.0. According to the draft 2038.0 built three ships ("Guarding", "Savvy" and "Courageous"), two of which are accepted for service.

    The main ocean-going ships, according to Viktor Chirkov, in the medium term will be the destroyer of the new project. The ship will have a large impact and defensive capabilities, including in the field of missile defense.

    By 2016, according to the Commander, Navy will also receive six frigates of Project 1135.6. In 2013, the system will enter a large landing ship (LST) "Ivan Gren" Project 1171.1. BDK descent to the water is scheduled for May.
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:02 pm


    That does not mean we wont see another 4th generation SSN Very Happy Very Happy in 5000t-8000t class.

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:10 am

    Viktor wrote:

    That does not mean we wont see another 4th generation SSN Very Happy Very Happy in 5000t-8000t class.

    I think this and next decade they will build more Yasen class that is what they hinted at
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:28 pm

    They need to lay down more boats soon if the 2020 plan has any chance of being met, let alone more boats.
    I think it is safe to say at this point the 2020 date for 8 boats will not be met.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Hachimoto on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:51 pm

    This sierra upgrade is a good thing but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen and pretty much any new design .. whichi is kind of sad knowing the russian history
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:16 pm

    Hachimoto wrote:This sierra upgrade is a good thing but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen and pretty much any new design .. whichi is kind of sad knowing the russian history

    Funny thing is that the same thing could be said about the Borei class, until only recently, but now Russia is trying to make all 8 of them

    by 2018 which is 2 year before schedule.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:28 pm

    but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen

    I don't think that is a fair assumption. T-90AMs can easily be produced in numbers yet they upgrade T-72s.

    Most of it has to do with what they already have.

    Ti hulled vessels would be horrendously expensive to make now, so rebuilding them makes a lot of sense in terms of value for money.

    There will be issues with developing the Yasen, just as there were issues with developing the Lada and Lada-M... that is perfectly normal, and just shows these are brand new vessels rather than just warmed over upgrades... which is a very good thing in terms of performance.

    If you look at the air force they are making Su-30SMs as well as Su-35S and PAK FAs, and they are buying Mig-35s, which suggests they are prepared to spend money to get a good product into service.

    The total number of platforms is reducing so the new platforms have to perform the role of several old platforms, plus upgrades have a place too. A Mig-29SMT can perform the mission of the Mig-23 and the Mig-27 combined... in fact it can do both jobs even better than the previous generation aircraft. The Su-34 will replace 2-3 Su-24s each.

    The difference with the navy is that previously each ship had a customised set of sensors, propulsion, and weapons for its job. The Udaloy and Sov classes were similar sizes but had different weapons, different sensors, and even different propulsion systems. New and upgraded vessels will have multipurpose sensors, weapons, and propulsion and will be produced in larger production runs. The result will be cheaper to operate and maintain, cheaper training and repair, and much more formidable sensors and weapons loads.


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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:56 pm

    All submarines of Akula project 971 class will be repaired and modernized.


    So by 2020 we can expect:

    - 8 boats of project 885 (Yassen)
    - 11/12 boats of project 971(Akula) (does anyone know the right number - my guess is 11 or 12)
    - 4 boats of project 945 (Sierra)
    - 4 boats of project 671 (Victor)
    - 8 boats of project 949/A (Oscar) (I think 8 boats as I counted)

    So by 2020 we can expect these numbers of attack submarines to pass modernization and be built.

    Count number: 35/36

    Rather high number of capable boats.


    All submarine project "Pike-B" will be the average repair



    "Defense has decided to hold the third-generation submarine repair. Speaking specifically about the 971 project, the world two years ago and successfully defended a project to repair the ships," - said Dorofeyev.


    MOSCOW, March 19 - RIA Novosti. All nuclear submarines of project 971 (code "Pike-B") will be the average repair and with the "clear" the group will form the basis of multi-purpose submarines of the Navy of Russia in the next decade, according to RIA Novosti General Director of JSC "St. Petersburg Naval Machinery Bureau" Malachite "Vladimir Dorofeev.

    "Defense has decided to hold the third-generation submarine repair. Speaking specifically about the 971 project, the world two years ago and successfully defended a project to repair the ships. Now the first ship is already on the" star ", raised in the shop, and did are repairs, "- said Dorofeyev.

    The need for such measures due to the fact that during the existence of nuclear submarines of the third generation of multi-purpose, none of these ships did not pass the average depot repair, said Dorofeyev. By the summer of experts "Malachite" finished all the drawings for the repair and modernization of 971 project. First of all, the boats will be equipped with new electronic weapons complexes.

    "Contractions now is not one ship, but on a series of ships - in order to provide a clear program of the plant, group purchasing of the equipment. Appointed the following ships of the series. Upgraded 971 project will be a new quality. These boats, along with submarines under construction, Project 885 form the basis of a general-purpose naval forces of the domestic Navy "- said Dorofeyev


    LINK


    There are some reports about 7 and not 8 of the project 885 Yassen being build but all are unconfirmed.

    We could expect all project 885 contract signed up this year or in 2014 so this might be some pressure exhorting to lower the price

    as those boats are damn expensive.

    Anyway 6 is the smallest number we have heard and 8 is the maximum. So no surprises there.

    3/19/13 SEVEN AND NOT EIGHT SUBMARINES WILL BE IN "CLEAR"
    March 19 2013.

    RIA Novosti . A series of submarine project 885 "Yasen" will consist of seven instead of eight submarines of this class, said in an interview with RIA Novosti Director General of "St. Petersburg Naval Machinery Bureau" Malachite "Vladimir Dorofeev.

    Previously, the command of the Navy of the Russian Federation has stated its intention to order the eight multi-purpose submarine project 885 "Yasen". However, in the beginning of the year, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the Navy until 2020 will get seven boats of this project.

    "Now, the first ship of the series" Severodvinsk "is the factory sea trials and this year should be necessarily passed the Defense Ministry. Second," Kazan ", is now on the stocks," Sevmash. "We will build five more ships modernized series," - said Dorofeyev .

    Over a series of Project 885 submarines modernized definitely do not plan to make significant changes to the set of weapons and other systems, "clear", said Dorofeyev.

    "The issue of the third tab" Ash "is discussed, and it is, to some extent, a political question. From a technical point of view, the construction of the ship began the day after the signing of the contract, at the moment is a specific section on the stocks, technical readiness of over 10 percent. A bookmark can be done this year, "- he added.

    LINK

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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:12 pm

    I believe by 2020, most or all of the 671 (Victor III) boats will be decommissioned.

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    Viktor

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:43 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:I believe by 2020, most or all of the 671 (Victor III) boats will be decommissioned.


    Who knows, but who would have expected to see 4 Sierra boats back in the service and modernized. Sierras was that one class,

    most of us thought would be decommissioned and scraped. Now Victor class is cheapest of all attack boats to operate with good attack

    and and other qualities. If Russian navy needs numbers Victor class is a good bang for the buck.
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    TR1

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    russian nuclear submarine force

    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:45 pm

    I also see the 671RTMKs to be the first to go before 2020. No modernizations are planned for them AFAIK.
    Also I suspect we will see closer to 9 modernized and operational 971s by 2020, not the entire "nominal" fleet today.
    949 is unclear, but by 2020 the oldest may very well be withdrawn. I see the fleet shrinking steadily by 2020, but maintaining core capability. By that time new subs should be arriving that older ones can be decommission anwyays.
    And ofc I am absolutely convinced 8 885s in service by 2020 will not be met. Laid down maybe, hopefully all launched.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  dionis on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:03 am

    Well if they're keeping these around, they had better be working on more 650mm torpedoes. The Oscars aren't going anywhere for a while either..

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:49 am

    These days with minuturisation of Electronics , Development of Power Motor powered by high density Li Ion battery , a 533 mm torpedo is as or far more capable then the 80's developed 650 mm Torpedo.

    So torpedoes current and future will be 533 mm type and newer submarine will come only with 533 mm Torpedoes.

    They can use Liners in 650 mm TT to fire 533 mm Torpedoes
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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:58 pm

    These days with minuturisation of Electronics , Development of Power Motor powered by high density Li Ion battery , a 533 mm torpedo is as or far more capable then the 80's developed 650 mm Torpedo.

    Which means a modern 650mm torpedo would be even better today.

    The primary function of the heavies was a standoff capability against carrier groups etc, a mission as relevant today as it was in the 1980s... the potential for improved performance however is enormous.

    At the end of the day however, the main feature of the 650s was their much larger and heavier warhead which could do enormous damage to even very large vessels.

    Experience has shown that even multiple hits on large civilian vessels have trouble in sinking them... cargo vessels don't have vulnerable weapons and ammo stores or large fuel storage areas, and the biggest risk to most vessels is fire when using anti ship missiles.

    Using torpedoes on the other hand, a good solid hit should be able to sink even the biggest civilian vessel, and carriers would be far more vulnerable to half a dozen long range torpedoes than a similar number of anti ship missiles.


    Their best defence would be high speed, which makes them easier to detect and track from long range due to the noise that would make...

    An added bonus is that a 650mm torpedo tube is easier for divers to climb out of, and could provide a much larger and more useful under water vehicle for divers to approach enemy waters...


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:12 am

    I haven't heard anything about new 650mm torpedo production.
    Safe to count that out.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:25 am

    GarryB wrote:Which means a modern 650mm torpedo would be even better today.

    Yes but its not needed when a 533 mm can do the job equally well and with less heavier and more smaller dimension a sub can carry more number of the same torpedo then say bigger 650 mm types.

    The primary function of the heavies was a standoff capability against carrier groups etc, a mission as relevant today as it was in the 1980s... the potential for improved performance however is enormous.

    Agreed but that was 60'70'80 , today you can punch more bang for the same warhead and try to finish the job , may be at best for a big carrier like Nimitz 2 torpedoes of UGST-M would be good enough to slowly sink it. Even a single hit may be a mission kill and the carrier may end up being static at sea making it a happy target for other assets or more torpedoes.

    An added bonus is that a 650mm torpedo tube is easier for divers to climb out of, and could provide a much larger and more useful under water vehicle for divers to approach enemy waters...

    Well yes its more comfortable to swim out of a 650 mm Tube but the Americans swim out via VLS tube so perhaps with Yasen having VLS tube they can do that as well.
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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:02 am

    I haven't heard anything about new 650mm torpedo production.
    Safe to count that out.

    Perhaps if it was secret then you might also not have heard anything, so it becomes safe to count on it as fact... Smile Razz

    One has to ask oneself why production was stopped... if it was because there was no money and most of the subs with that calibre tube were not available for service then once they are upgraded then both of these reasons disappear...


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:26 pm

    Secret or not but Yasen does not have 650 mm tube and the last Akula by Russian Navy Gepard does not have 650 mm Tube both have 533 mm TT.

    Thats a good indication we might not see the likes of 650 mm Torpedoes in the future
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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:47 am

    AFAIK one of the main useful features of the 650mm tube was the other weapons it could fire like the Grannat (SS-N-21) and I think either the SS-N-15 or 16.

    With the upgrades they will likely either replace them with 533s or perhaps they might explore larger weapons.

    I suspect the main reason for dropping them would be it is cheaper and easier to have VLS missiles for weapons like the Kalibr family.


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    Austin

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    PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA VLADIMIR PUTIN: Colleagues,

    Post  Austin on Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:40 am

    Meeting on developing the Navy

    Vladimir Putin held a meeting on developing nuclear submarine forces. Taking part in the meeting were Navy Commander Viktor Chirkov and heads of a number of defence enterprises.

    PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA VLADIMIR PUTIN: Colleagues,


    We will continue our meeting [on strategic missile forces] in reference to the Navy. I don’t need to talk about how important the naval component is within our three-pronged strategic nuclear deterrence forces. In Russia the Armed Forces, including strategic nuclear deterrence forces, must be balanced; for this reason we intend to and shall pay appropriate attention to the Navy in general, and its strategic component in particular.

    As you know, in January 2013 the new nuclear-powered missile cruiser Yury Dolgoruky was commissioned into the Navy. Next year, in the near future, two more boats – Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh – will be commissioned in, and by 2020 eight nuclear-powered submarines will be deployed.

    What would I like to draw attention to? To deadlines, prices, and harmonising work to build and modernise the fleet, with that related to weapons. Weapons must become available simultaneously with the release of the carriers themselves, the submarines. And of course, coastal infrastructure too; but we talked about this with the Navy Commander and the Defence Minister, and today we’ll discuss it in even more detail.

    I would like Mr Vilnit to say a few words, and then Mr Dorofeyev.

    Please go ahead.

    CEO OF RUBIN CENTRAL DESIGN BUREAU FOR MARINE ENGINEERING IGOR VILNIT: Mr President,

    The Borei class strategic submarine cruiser has been built. The lead ship under this project has been commissioned into the Navy.

    The first serial Borei class ship has completed the necessary tests, including state ones, and today is being prepared for deployment in the Navy.

    The second ship under this project is currently undergoing sea trials; once those are finished it will undergo state tests later on this year.

    At present, work is underway to create the new modernised Borei-A project, which provides for a whole range of improvements for Borei design ships.

    Work to create such a ship is underway. All enterprises involved know their tasks and are ready to supply the appropriate weapons. Ongoing work to build these ships is proceeding according to plan.

    Today non-nuclear ships are also being built for our Navy. All the work to build 636 and 677 Lada class submarines is being carried out according to plan.

    Simultaneously, work is underway to establish a special air-independent propulsion power plant for these vessels, in order to significantly improve their capacities for future fifth-generation ships.

    VLADIMIR PUTIN: Thank you.

    CEO OF MALACHITE CENTRAL DESIGN BUREAU FOR MARINE ENGINEERING VLADIMIR DOROFEYEV: Mr President,

    This year state tests of the Severodvinsk multipurpose nuclear submarine, the lead ship of the Project 885 [Yasen class] submarines, have been completed. Ongoing state tests are now finished.

    During these tests we successfully simulated missile launches, both cruise missiles designed to destroy surface ships, and those designed to destroy long-range coastal targets.

    Once this ship is deployed, our Navy, Defence Ministry, and the state will be able to use it to carry out a new function, namely non-strategic nuclear deterrence through the use of high-precision long-range cruise missiles.

    Dozens of industrial enterprises and scientific organisations participated in building this ship, which was done at the Sevmash shipyard. That was my report.

    VLADIMIR PUTIN: In October some submarines left the shipyard docks. In general, everything went very well. How would you evaluate this work?

    RUSSIAN NAVY COMMANDER ADMIRAL VIKTOR CHIRKOV: Comrade Commander-in-Chief,

    Under your leadership, we carried out strategic military exercises to manage our strategic nuclear forces. During these we conducted missile firing exercises in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the Barents Sea. Shooting exercises were completed normally, and all deviations were also within normal limits. Personnel accomplished the tasks they were set. The goals of these exercises were achieved.

    VLADIMIR PUTIN: Good, thank you.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:33 pm

    President Putin stated yesterday that 8 Borei and 8 Yasen will be built , so its no more 7 Yasen but 8 Smile
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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:05 pm

    Austin wrote:President Putin stated yesterday that 8 Borei and 8 Yasen will be built , so its no more 7 Yasen but 8 Smile

    russia doesnt need more SSNs? USA has about 60 in service
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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:26 pm

    George1 wrote:
    Austin wrote:President Putin stated yesterday that 8 Borei and 8 Yasen will be built , so its no more 7 Yasen but 8 Smile

    russia doesnt need more SSNs? USA has about 60 in service

    US Navy has a little over 50 active SSNs- but the number is going to go down. The Los Angeles boats are not being replaced 1-1 with Virginias, the final number will probably stabilize at around 35.

    Given the respective budgets, 8 Yasens is a fine number, especially considering they will serve alongside modernized 971s and 945s.
    Plus, RuNavy operates non-nuclear boats, US navy does not.

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