Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Share
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:28 pm

    They need to lay down more boats soon if the 2020 plan has any chance of being met, let alone more boats.
    I think it is safe to say at this point the 2020 date for 8 boats will not be met.

    Hachimoto

    Posts : 148
    Points : 162
    Join date : 2013-02-08
    Age : 32

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Hachimoto on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:51 pm

    This sierra upgrade is a good thing but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen and pretty much any new design .. whichi is kind of sad knowing the russian history
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:16 pm

    Hachimoto wrote:This sierra upgrade is a good thing but it also proof they have big troubles in mass production of Yasen and pretty much any new design .. whichi is kind of sad knowing the russian history

    Funny thing is that the same thing could be said about the Borei class, until only recently, but now Russia is trying to make all 8 of them

    by 2018 which is 2 year before schedule.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:56 pm

    All submarines of Akula project 971 class will be repaired and modernized.


    So by 2020 we can expect:

    - 8 boats of project 885 (Yassen)
    - 11/12 boats of project 971(Akula) (does anyone know the right number - my guess is 11 or 12)
    - 4 boats of project 945 (Sierra)
    - 4 boats of project 671 (Victor)
    - 8 boats of project 949/A (Oscar) (I think 8 boats as I counted)

    So by 2020 we can expect these numbers of attack submarines to pass modernization and be built.

    Count number: 35/36

    Rather high number of capable boats.


    All submarine project "Pike-B" will be the average repair



    "Defense has decided to hold the third-generation submarine repair. Speaking specifically about the 971 project, the world two years ago and successfully defended a project to repair the ships," - said Dorofeyev.


    MOSCOW, March 19 - RIA Novosti. All nuclear submarines of project 971 (code "Pike-B") will be the average repair and with the "clear" the group will form the basis of multi-purpose submarines of the Navy of Russia in the next decade, according to RIA Novosti General Director of JSC "St. Petersburg Naval Machinery Bureau" Malachite "Vladimir Dorofeev.

    "Defense has decided to hold the third-generation submarine repair. Speaking specifically about the 971 project, the world two years ago and successfully defended a project to repair the ships. Now the first ship is already on the" star ", raised in the shop, and did are repairs, "- said Dorofeyev.

    The need for such measures due to the fact that during the existence of nuclear submarines of the third generation of multi-purpose, none of these ships did not pass the average depot repair, said Dorofeyev. By the summer of experts "Malachite" finished all the drawings for the repair and modernization of 971 project. First of all, the boats will be equipped with new electronic weapons complexes.

    "Contractions now is not one ship, but on a series of ships - in order to provide a clear program of the plant, group purchasing of the equipment. Appointed the following ships of the series. Upgraded 971 project will be a new quality. These boats, along with submarines under construction, Project 885 form the basis of a general-purpose naval forces of the domestic Navy "- said Dorofeyev


    LINK


    There are some reports about 7 and not 8 of the project 885 Yassen being build but all are unconfirmed.

    We could expect all project 885 contract signed up this year or in 2014 so this might be some pressure exhorting to lower the price

    as those boats are damn expensive.

    Anyway 6 is the smallest number we have heard and 8 is the maximum. So no surprises there.

    3/19/13 SEVEN AND NOT EIGHT SUBMARINES WILL BE IN "CLEAR"
    March 19 2013.

    RIA Novosti . A series of submarine project 885 "Yasen" will consist of seven instead of eight submarines of this class, said in an interview with RIA Novosti Director General of "St. Petersburg Naval Machinery Bureau" Malachite "Vladimir Dorofeev.

    Previously, the command of the Navy of the Russian Federation has stated its intention to order the eight multi-purpose submarine project 885 "Yasen". However, in the beginning of the year, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that the Navy until 2020 will get seven boats of this project.

    "Now, the first ship of the series" Severodvinsk "is the factory sea trials and this year should be necessarily passed the Defense Ministry. Second," Kazan ", is now on the stocks," Sevmash. "We will build five more ships modernized series," - said Dorofeyev .

    Over a series of Project 885 submarines modernized definitely do not plan to make significant changes to the set of weapons and other systems, "clear", said Dorofeyev.

    "The issue of the third tab" Ash "is discussed, and it is, to some extent, a political question. From a technical point of view, the construction of the ship began the day after the signing of the contract, at the moment is a specific section on the stocks, technical readiness of over 10 percent. A bookmark can be done this year, "- he added.

    LINK

    avatar
    TheArmenian

    Posts : 1683
    Points : 1844
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:12 pm

    I believe by 2020, most or all of the 671 (Victor III) boats will be decommissioned.

    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:43 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:I believe by 2020, most or all of the 671 (Victor III) boats will be decommissioned.


    Who knows, but who would have expected to see 4 Sierra boats back in the service and modernized. Sierras was that one class,

    most of us thought would be decommissioned and scraped. Now Victor class is cheapest of all attack boats to operate with good attack

    and and other qualities. If Russian navy needs numbers Victor class is a good bang for the buck.
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    russian nuclear submarine force

    Post  TR1 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:45 pm

    I also see the 671RTMKs to be the first to go before 2020. No modernizations are planned for them AFAIK.
    Also I suspect we will see closer to 9 modernized and operational 971s by 2020, not the entire "nominal" fleet today.
    949 is unclear, but by 2020 the oldest may very well be withdrawn. I see the fleet shrinking steadily by 2020, but maintaining core capability. By that time new subs should be arriving that older ones can be decommission anwyays.
    And ofc I am absolutely convinced 8 885s in service by 2020 will not be met. Laid down maybe, hopefully all launched.

    dionis

    Posts : 63
    Points : 64
    Join date : 2012-12-13

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  dionis on Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:03 am

    Well if they're keeping these around, they had better be working on more 650mm torpedoes. The Oscars aren't going anywhere for a while either..

    Austin

    Posts : 6190
    Points : 6596
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:49 am

    These days with minuturisation of Electronics , Development of Power Motor powered by high density Li Ion battery , a 533 mm torpedo is as or far more capable then the 80's developed 650 mm Torpedo.

    So torpedoes current and future will be 533 mm type and newer submarine will come only with 533 mm Torpedoes.

    They can use Liners in 650 mm TT to fire 533 mm Torpedoes
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16172
    Points : 16803
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:58 pm

    These days with minuturisation of Electronics , Development of Power Motor powered by high density Li Ion battery , a 533 mm torpedo is as or far more capable then the 80's developed 650 mm Torpedo.

    Which means a modern 650mm torpedo would be even better today.

    The primary function of the heavies was a standoff capability against carrier groups etc, a mission as relevant today as it was in the 1980s... the potential for improved performance however is enormous.

    At the end of the day however, the main feature of the 650s was their much larger and heavier warhead which could do enormous damage to even very large vessels.

    Experience has shown that even multiple hits on large civilian vessels have trouble in sinking them... cargo vessels don't have vulnerable weapons and ammo stores or large fuel storage areas, and the biggest risk to most vessels is fire when using anti ship missiles.

    Using torpedoes on the other hand, a good solid hit should be able to sink even the biggest civilian vessel, and carriers would be far more vulnerable to half a dozen long range torpedoes than a similar number of anti ship missiles.


    Their best defence would be high speed, which makes them easier to detect and track from long range due to the noise that would make...

    An added bonus is that a 650mm torpedo tube is easier for divers to climb out of, and could provide a much larger and more useful under water vehicle for divers to approach enemy waters...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:12 am

    I haven't heard anything about new 650mm torpedo production.
    Safe to count that out.

    Austin

    Posts : 6190
    Points : 6596
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:25 am

    GarryB wrote:Which means a modern 650mm torpedo would be even better today.

    Yes but its not needed when a 533 mm can do the job equally well and with less heavier and more smaller dimension a sub can carry more number of the same torpedo then say bigger 650 mm types.

    The primary function of the heavies was a standoff capability against carrier groups etc, a mission as relevant today as it was in the 1980s... the potential for improved performance however is enormous.

    Agreed but that was 60'70'80 , today you can punch more bang for the same warhead and try to finish the job , may be at best for a big carrier like Nimitz 2 torpedoes of UGST-M would be good enough to slowly sink it. Even a single hit may be a mission kill and the carrier may end up being static at sea making it a happy target for other assets or more torpedoes.

    An added bonus is that a 650mm torpedo tube is easier for divers to climb out of, and could provide a much larger and more useful under water vehicle for divers to approach enemy waters...

    Well yes its more comfortable to swim out of a 650 mm Tube but the Americans swim out via VLS tube so perhaps with Yasen having VLS tube they can do that as well.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16172
    Points : 16803
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:02 am

    I haven't heard anything about new 650mm torpedo production.
    Safe to count that out.

    Perhaps if it was secret then you might also not have heard anything, so it becomes safe to count on it as fact... Smile Razz

    One has to ask oneself why production was stopped... if it was because there was no money and most of the subs with that calibre tube were not available for service then once they are upgraded then both of these reasons disappear...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin

    Posts : 6190
    Points : 6596
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:26 pm

    Secret or not but Yasen does not have 650 mm tube and the last Akula by Russian Navy Gepard does not have 650 mm Tube both have 533 mm TT.

    Thats a good indication we might not see the likes of 650 mm Torpedoes in the future
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16172
    Points : 16803
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:47 am

    AFAIK one of the main useful features of the 650mm tube was the other weapons it could fire like the Grannat (SS-N-21) and I think either the SS-N-15 or 16.

    With the upgrades they will likely either replace them with 533s or perhaps they might explore larger weapons.

    I suspect the main reason for dropping them would be it is cheaper and easier to have VLS missiles for weapons like the Kalibr family.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Austin

    Posts : 6190
    Points : 6596
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA VLADIMIR PUTIN: Colleagues,

    Post  Austin on Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:40 am

    Meeting on developing the Navy

    Vladimir Putin held a meeting on developing nuclear submarine forces. Taking part in the meeting were Navy Commander Viktor Chirkov and heads of a number of defence enterprises.

    PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA VLADIMIR PUTIN: Colleagues,


    We will continue our meeting [on strategic missile forces] in reference to the Navy. I don’t need to talk about how important the naval component is within our three-pronged strategic nuclear deterrence forces. In Russia the Armed Forces, including strategic nuclear deterrence forces, must be balanced; for this reason we intend to and shall pay appropriate attention to the Navy in general, and its strategic component in particular.

    As you know, in January 2013 the new nuclear-powered missile cruiser Yury Dolgoruky was commissioned into the Navy. Next year, in the near future, two more boats – Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh – will be commissioned in, and by 2020 eight nuclear-powered submarines will be deployed.

    What would I like to draw attention to? To deadlines, prices, and harmonising work to build and modernise the fleet, with that related to weapons. Weapons must become available simultaneously with the release of the carriers themselves, the submarines. And of course, coastal infrastructure too; but we talked about this with the Navy Commander and the Defence Minister, and today we’ll discuss it in even more detail.

    I would like Mr Vilnit to say a few words, and then Mr Dorofeyev.

    Please go ahead.

    CEO OF RUBIN CENTRAL DESIGN BUREAU FOR MARINE ENGINEERING IGOR VILNIT: Mr President,

    The Borei class strategic submarine cruiser has been built. The lead ship under this project has been commissioned into the Navy.

    The first serial Borei class ship has completed the necessary tests, including state ones, and today is being prepared for deployment in the Navy.

    The second ship under this project is currently undergoing sea trials; once those are finished it will undergo state tests later on this year.

    At present, work is underway to create the new modernised Borei-A project, which provides for a whole range of improvements for Borei design ships.

    Work to create such a ship is underway. All enterprises involved know their tasks and are ready to supply the appropriate weapons. Ongoing work to build these ships is proceeding according to plan.

    Today non-nuclear ships are also being built for our Navy. All the work to build 636 and 677 Lada class submarines is being carried out according to plan.

    Simultaneously, work is underway to establish a special air-independent propulsion power plant for these vessels, in order to significantly improve their capacities for future fifth-generation ships.

    VLADIMIR PUTIN: Thank you.

    CEO OF MALACHITE CENTRAL DESIGN BUREAU FOR MARINE ENGINEERING VLADIMIR DOROFEYEV: Mr President,

    This year state tests of the Severodvinsk multipurpose nuclear submarine, the lead ship of the Project 885 [Yasen class] submarines, have been completed. Ongoing state tests are now finished.

    During these tests we successfully simulated missile launches, both cruise missiles designed to destroy surface ships, and those designed to destroy long-range coastal targets.

    Once this ship is deployed, our Navy, Defence Ministry, and the state will be able to use it to carry out a new function, namely non-strategic nuclear deterrence through the use of high-precision long-range cruise missiles.

    Dozens of industrial enterprises and scientific organisations participated in building this ship, which was done at the Sevmash shipyard. That was my report.

    VLADIMIR PUTIN: In October some submarines left the shipyard docks. In general, everything went very well. How would you evaluate this work?

    RUSSIAN NAVY COMMANDER ADMIRAL VIKTOR CHIRKOV: Comrade Commander-in-Chief,

    Under your leadership, we carried out strategic military exercises to manage our strategic nuclear forces. During these we conducted missile firing exercises in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the Barents Sea. Shooting exercises were completed normally, and all deviations were also within normal limits. Personnel accomplished the tasks they were set. The goals of these exercises were achieved.

    VLADIMIR PUTIN: Good, thank you.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10063
    Points : 10553
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:51 am

    i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    avatar
    navyfield

    Posts : 193
    Points : 148
    Join date : 2013-05-27

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  navyfield on Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:41 pm

    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10063
    Points : 10553
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:03 pm

    navyfield wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.

    yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive
    avatar
    TR1

    Posts : 5699
    Points : 5735
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:37 pm

    George1 wrote:
    navyfield wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.

    yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive

    Don't bother with navyfield, he so far has not managed to post one worthwhile post.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:29 am

    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

    As I remember from some old edition of MDB, Russian Navy will go for lighter SSN.

    etaepsilonk

    Posts : 715
    Points : 697
    Join date : 2013-11-19

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:36 pm

    George1 wrote:
    navyfield wrote:
    George1 wrote:i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra
    no money.

    yes thats the reason i asked. Yasen is too expensive

    You can pretty much say the same for every warship being built nowadays.

    And, personally, I don't think small SSN is a good idea.

    Today, almost every new boat is either SSBN, or SSGN/multipurpose. So, for the latter being larger means being more capable  russia 
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:55 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    Today, almost every new boat is either SSBN, or SSGN/multipurpose. So, for the latter being larger means being more capable  russia 
    I agree small nuke sub is not needed. Its not like Russias subs has to patrol the worlds oceans and guard carrier groups round the clock 24/7.
    If the murican navy could have its own way they would have seawolfs instead of virginias. And everyone would agree that a Seawolf is a much better analogue to Yasen than virginia could ever be.

    etaepsilonk

    Posts : 715
    Points : 697
    Join date : 2013-11-19

    i wonder if Russia will go also for a lighter SSN as a successor class to "hunters" alpha and sierra

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:11 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:
    If the murican navy could have its own way they would have seawolfs instead of virginias. And everyone would agree that a Seawolf is a much better analogue to Yasen than virginia could ever be.

    No. In fact, Virginia, all-round, is more capable than Seawolf.
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5670
    Points : 6319
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Viktor on Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:24 am

    Nice  thumbsup 

    Russian Navy by 2020 will add to more than 10 modernized attack submarines

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:42 pm