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    Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:32 am

    Project 667BDR/Delta III submarines are alive and well

    On 5 July 2016, Svyatoy Georgiy Pobedonosets, a Project 66BDR/Delta III class submarine, returned to its base in Vilyuchinsk after a combat patrol.

    It is quite remarkable that these submarines are still in service--K-433 Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets was accepted for service 1980, so it is 36 years old. Even accounting for the fact that she spent most of its service life at a pier, she is an old submarine. The R-29R missiles are getting old too, of course, but they are probably replaced regularly. The Soviet Union produced a lot of SLBMs, so Russia will not run out of missiles for quite some time. We know that there were 4.3 missiles produced for each R-29R launcher, so at some point Russia had almost 1000 missiles of this type. Even though several hundred were probably expended in flight tests over the years, it should be possible to find enough missiles to put on the three Project 667BDR submarines that still remain in service. And they seem to be in good shape - K-223 Podolsk launched its R-29R missile during the exercise in October 2015.

    Delta III submarines will probably retire after new Project 955 Borey submarines take their place in the Pacific. But there are plans to keep at least some old submarines in service -- Ryazan has been undergoing overhaul and will return to the fleet in some capacity.
    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/08/project_667bdrdelta_iii_submar.shtml



    New schedule for submarine construction

    According to an industry source quoted by TASS, the new Project 955 submarine Knyaz Vladimir will be accepted for service in 2018--a year later than planned. Construction of the submarine began in July 2012. The Kazan multipurpose submarine of the Project 885M class will also join the fleet in 2018. Kazan and Knyaz Vladimir are expected to be launched in December 2016 and March 2017 respectively.

    Knyaz Vladimir is the fourth submarine of the Project 955 class (it is also often classified as Project 955A). The fifth submarine, Knyaz Oleg, is expected to join the fleet in 2019 (it was laid down in July 2014), the sixth and seventh Generalissimus Suvorov (December 2014) and Imperator Alexander III (December 2015) will follow in 2020. The eighth and final Project 955 Borey submarine (to be laid down in December 2016) is expected to begin service in 2021.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/07/new_schedule_for_submarine_con.shtml

    Honesroc

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Honesroc on Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:17 am

    Interesting analysis on Russia's Arctic ambitions and capabilities. This article touches on special purpose-built submarines as well as a planned Arctic sonar-net similar to SOSUS

    http://www.hisutton.com/Analysis%20-Russia%20seeks%20submarine%20advantage%20in%20Arctic.html
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:38 pm

    ..WTF?

    Russia is "turning the Arctic into Russia's own back yard."

    Geography lesson for the idiot that wrote that article the Arctic IS Russias back yard... read a fucking atlas.... geez!!!


    Honesroc

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Honesroc on Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:..WTF?

    Russia is "turning the Arctic into Russia's own back yard."

    Geography lesson for the idiot that wrote that article the Arctic IS Russias back yard... read a fucking atlas.... geez!!!


    Gary takes extreme exception to an article's title... As for myself, I'm not bothered by such trivial matters.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:46 am

    Garry takes exception to ignoring western propaganda and just accepting western views as reality.

    If you want to ignore it it will never change and actually only get worse...

    "Aggressive Russia turning to militarise the Black sea by spending money upgrading their military forces in occupied Crimea"

    "Aggressive Russia spending money on military facilities in occupied Japanese islands in northern pacific."

    Now they are spending money in their northern territories... the aggressive bastards... but lets ignore that crap because the articles have nice pictures...

    Singular_trafo

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Singular_trafo on Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:43 pm

    Honesroc wrote:Interesting analysis on Russia's Arctic ambitions and capabilities. This article touches on special purpose-built submarines as well as a planned Arctic sonar-net similar to SOSUS

    http://www.hisutton.com/Analysis%20-Russia%20seeks%20submarine%20advantage%20in%20Arctic.html

    I think the Kilos and the sonar network interrelated.

    The kilos are very quiet in electric mode, means they are ideal rocket/torpedo carrier platform, the sonar network gives the targeting information for the long range eqipment, and bingo, a torpedo carrier rocket can kill any ship/submarine in the sonar network.


    But in the artic you can't use kilos (but you haven't got surface ships as well) , means that the small reactors feed not only sonars, but torpedo mines as well.


    It means that the exclusive economic zone a no go land for any foreign warship/submarine.


    It gives a different view for the chinese misland building activity.

    The main purpose of the chinese sea islands is to protect and control the underwater sonar system.



    nastle77

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:52 am

    GarryB wrote:Garry takes exception to ignoring western propaganda and just accepting western views as reality.

    If you want to ignore it it will never change and actually only get worse...

    "Aggressive Russia turning to militarise the Black sea by spending money upgrading their military forces in occupied Crimea"

    "Aggressive Russia spending money on military facilities in occupied Japanese islands in northern pacific."

    Now they are spending money in their northern territories... the aggressive bastards... but lets ignore that crap because the articles have nice pictures...

    I agree it's like saying why is US building military bases in Caribbean or UK patrolling the English channel
    all the time western media ignores the military resurgence of Japan

    Project Canada

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    In Russia, we created a new sound-absorbing coating for "Boreas" and "Ash"

    Post  Project Canada on Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:30 pm




    In Russia, we created a new sound-absorbing coating for "Boreas" and "Ash"

    External noise absorbing coating disperses submarine sonar signal and thus provides protection against anti-enemy

    "Tehmash" Concern has launched production of a new special sound-absorbing coating for the fourth-generation submarines, said on Tuesday in the Group.

    "New industrial rubber production will ensure the release of special coatings with improved acoustic performance for modern submarine of the fourth generation of boats. Technical plates, which we launched on the basis of the Cheboksary Production Association named after Chapaev, favorably differ from Western models the ability to absorb the acoustic signals of a wide range and high performance" - are reported words of the general director Sergey Rusakov concern.



    External noise absorbing coating submarine, in particular sonar signal scatters and thus provides protection against anti enemy forces.

    Now several submarines of the fourth generation are in the Russian Navy - a nuclear submarine type "Northwind" and "Ash", as well as non-nuclear "Lada".

    https://defence.ru/issledovanie-materialov/v-rossii-sozdali-novoe-zvukopogloschayuschee-pokritie-dlya-boreev-i-yasenei/

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Austin on Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:24 am

    The sea component of the nuclear triad will be one of the priorities of the new state program of armaments - the Russian military-industrial complex
    02/12/2016 9:30:31
    http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=434259

          
    Viña del Mar (Chile). December 2nd. Interfax-AVN - Development of sea-based strategic nuclear forces (SNF) will be one of the main points of the new state armament program (SAP) in the years 2018-2025, "Interfax-AVN" member of the board of the Military-Industrial Commission (VPK) Vladimir Pospelov.

           "By itself, the construction of naval strategic nuclear forces is a top priority and at the same time it organically drawn to the development of the entire fleet categories, types and branches of the Armed Forces, which provide the strategic nuclear forces." - V.Pospelov said.

           He said that we are talking about all the components of the Russian nuclear triad.

           "This also applies to ground strategic nuclear forces, and aviation This orbital grouping, and bringing combat control teams, and many other things that, ultimately, a single system comprehensively solve the problem." - V.Pospelov said, who heads the Council MIC board on shipbuilding.

           Proceeding from this logic, he said V.Pospelov, takes into account various proposals for specific projects of ships, supply vessels, aircraft, other military equipment, which is created in the interest of the development of the naval component of the strategic nuclear forces.

           He stressed that the Russian army entered the twenty-first century with the priorities of national security, that formed a little earlier.

           "It is definitely possible to say that today, first of all it is the strategic nuclear forces provide the global interests of Russia and several other countries of the world. US, UK, France, Germany and some other countries This is - an absolute element of stability on a global scale," - he said in .Pospelov.

           According to him, since the emergence of the nuclear triad development of its sea, air and land component is a priority in the "vёrstkah" SAP. "It was yesterday, is today, and I am sure, will continue in the foreseeable future is the priority that is guaranteed to ensure the protection of our national interests in any of the scenarios." - V.Pospelov said.

           Noting the effectiveness and powerful strategic nuclear forces, which are an essential element of strategic stability, the agency drew attention to the need to improve information support for automated control systems of marine component of the nuclear triad of state. ".. This applies, in particular, to ensure the stability of the combat groups of marine strategic nuclear forces This is the maritime component of general purpose forces and there are a number of other issues that will be emphasized in the new LG" - V.Pospelov said.

           Responding to questions about the financial security of the SAP - 2018-2025, he noted that participated in the formation of three state programs arms.

           "Financial assets never is never too much: no matter how much to offer - they always will learn Certain limitations are present today in our country, and in many other countries." - V.Pospelov said.

           As an example, he cited a number of heads of the Navy Latin American region, which spoke at the International Naval Exhibition "EKSPONAVAL 2016" in Chile.

           "They have a dilemma: they are the commanders of the Navy, we would like one, and countries leadership says it we can, and that - no starts selection options for the development of national Navy The main task here - to competently distribute those funds.. that they can give the state to most effectively achieve the goals set by the leadership of the country ", - said V.Pospelov.

           He stressed that the development of the Russian Navy for many years now goes to the "eye" in the vastness of the oceans, but today it is particularly relevant in view of the current geopolitical situation.

           "Not every country having serious navy, capable of entering the expanses of the oceans We objectively." Imprisoned "at the matter from the time of Peter the First, and always try to match - and the shipbuilding industry, and those federal executive bodies that are involved in . these tasks management of the Ministry of Defence, the leadership of the Military-industrial Commission clearly see and understand the challenges that exist today, and properly respond to them, "- said V.Pospelov.

           New LG spokesman said, takes into account all these factors. 



    nastle77

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:33 pm

    Bump
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:07 pm

    Russian submariners to get new escape gear

    According to the Navy’s spokesman, the escape equipment will allow working outside a submarine at depths of up to 20 meters

    MOSCOW, March 13. /TASS/. The crews of nuclear-powered submarines under construction for the Russian Navy will get the submariner’s improved escape gear, Navy spokesman Igor Dygalo said on Monday.

    "The crews of nuclear-powered and diesel-electric submarines will be supplied with the submariner’s improved escape gear designated for the personnel’s individual escape from a stricken submarine from depths of up to 220 meters," Dygalo said.

    The submariner’s escape gear has undergone operational evaluation at the Research Institute of Rescue Works and Underwater Technologies of the Navy’s Military Training and Research Center, the spokesman said.

    "The submariner’s improved escape gear is planned to be supplied to the crews of nuclear-powered strategic and multipurpose submarines that are under construction for the Russian Navy, as well as to the crews of Project 636.3 diesel-electric submarines, a series of which comprising six underwater cruisers will be built for the Pacific Fleet," the Navy’s spokesman said.

    Simultaneously, there are plans to supply the improved escape gear to the crews of submarines already operational with the Russian submarine force.

    The submariner’s escape gear comprises an insulating respiratory system and an escape and immersion suit. It can also be supplied with the PP-2 parachute system to brake the submariner’s surfacing and prevent Caisson’s disease (the decompression sickness).

    According to the Navy’s spokesman, the escape equipment will allow working outside a submarine at depths of up to 20 meters.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/935227
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Isos on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:30 pm

    Future russian SSN, Kashka (according to french spoutnik)

    https://fr.sputniknews.com/defense/201703171030506038-forces-sous-marines-russes/



    Arrow

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Arrow on Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:27 am

    Interesting why Russia doesn't use pump jet propulsion which generate less noise. All modern nuclear submarine use this propulsor. Astute, Virgina, Borey, Le Triomphant.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:09 am

    The Russians have plenty of experience with pump jets... they tested them on a modified Kilo class sub for several years...

    Arrow

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  Arrow on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:21 am

    But the pump jet generate loss noise than screw. Russia use this propel in project 955. Of course this is more expensive.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:29 am

    Arrow wrote:Interesting why Russia doesn't use pump jet propulsion which generate less noise. All modern nuclear submarine use this propulsor. Astute, Virgina, Borey, Le Triomphant.

    Pump jets are a method to avoid the cavitation noise from propellers.
    Cavitation noise is inversely proportional to depth at which the submarine sails.

    For example:
    At a given depth, cavitation noise is generated once the speed reaches a certain level.
    At lower depths, the same cavitation noise will start only at higher speeds.
    At 500 m depth there is virtually no cavitation noise even at high speeds.

    For strategic subs (SSBNs) who have to go to shallow depths to fire their Ballistic Missiles, pump-jets are a good idea (although they penalize performance). Hence, the Russians are equipping their Borey class SSBNs with pump-jets.
    Attack submarines (SSNs), usually operate at lower depths where cavitation noise is a much lesser problem. In order not to sacrifice performance, the Russians are staying away from pump-jets in the Yasen class submarines.


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    Singular_Transform

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    Interesting why Russia doesn't use pump jet propulsion which generate less noise.

    Post  Singular_Transform on Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:42 am

    TheArmenian wrote:
    Arrow wrote:Interesting why Russia doesn't use pump jet propulsion which generate less noise. All modern nuclear submarine use this propulsor. Astute, Virgina, Borey, Le Triomphant.

    Pump jets are a method to avoid the cavitation noise from propellers.
    Cavitation noise is inversely proportional to depth at which the submarine sails.

    For example:
    At a given depth, cavitation noise is generated once the speed reaches a certain level.
    At lower depths, the same cavitation noise will start only at higher speeds.
    At 500 m depth there is virtually no cavitation noise even at high speeds.

    For strategic subs (SSBNs) who have to go to shallow depths to fire their Ballistic Missiles, pump-jets are a good idea (although they penalize performance). Hence, the Russians are equipping their Borey class SSBNs with pump-jets.
    Attack submarines (SSNs), usually operate at lower depths where cavitation noise is a much lesser problem. In order not to sacrifice performance, the Russians are staying away from pump-jets in the Yasen class submarines.




    Pump jet has an optimal speed, above that the prupulsion will generate more noise than without it, and will slow done the submarine.

    Additionaly the Russian akula/yassen submariens operating around 1000 meters deep, the others are operating half of this deep.

    The only exeption is the Seawolf, that could go as deep as the akulas/yassens.

    The Los angeles is inferrior compred to the seawolf/akula/yassen. Only advantage is it is cheaper .
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:06 am

    Korolev on New Submarines
    Posted on March 31, 2017 | 1 Comment

    At today’s launch of Russia’s first proyekt 885M or Yasen-M SSN Kazan, Navy CINC Admiral Vladimir Korolev said the third Yasen-M, Krasnoyarsk, will be launched in 2019. But he didn’t mention the second, Novosibirsk.

    According to RIA Novosti, Korolev also indicated that the sixth Yasen-M (seventh Yasen overall) will be laid down this summer, and will be named Ulyanovsk.

    Korolev also said the first modernized proyekt 955A or Borey A SSBN Knyaz Vladimir will be launched this summer. It will be the fourth Borey overall, and will carry the improved Bulava-M SLBM.

    At the launch ceremony for Kazan, the Navy CINC reported that:

    “Last year we reached the same number of underway days which existed before the post-Soviet period. That is more than 3,000 days at sea for Russia’s submarine fleet. It’s a wonderful indicator.”

    While launch is a very significant milestone in submarine production, Kazan still faces a lengthy period of pierside fitting out, factory trials, and state testing.

    https://russiandefpolicy.blog/2017/03/31/korolev-on-new-submarines/
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  George1 on Thu May 25, 2017 2:27 am

    "Russia's naval nuclear forces have nine strategic submarines that provide continuous military patrols in the sea. The Russian Navy is also planning to increase the number of strategic nuclear submarines to 13, including seven 'Boreys' with 'Bulava' missiles," Shoigu said.

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201705241053929379-russia-strategic-submarines/

    nastle77

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    SLBM in anti-ship role

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:03 am

    Is it atleast theoretically possible to use SS-N-20 and SS-N-23 missiles of the Delta IV and Typhoon class SSBN in the anti-ship role ?

    From what I could find their CEP is 500 m , this may not be accurate enough to hit an individual shipon the high seas but what about exploding it about the location of the SAG, knocking out the ECM and making it more vulnerable to cruise missile strikes ?

    These SLBM had multiple MIRV, could they increase the changes of having a nuclear blast as close to the location of a SAG as possible ?

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:34 pm

    nastle77 wrote:Is it atleast theoretically possible to use SS-N-20 and SS-N-23 missiles of the Delta IV and Typhoon class SSBN in the anti-ship role ?

    .........


    Theoretically yes (a lot of stuff is possible in theory) but practically why bother?

    You have far better platforms for dealing with surface threats (nukes and all) and Deltas have more important roles to fulfill.

    They do have 3 older Deltas that are deemed too noisy even for SSBNs but it would make more sense to convert them into land attack ships by installing Kalibr LACMs instead of ICBMs. Far better than scraping them (they still sail and dive no problem)

    It would also trim down their crew complement significantly, probably operational costs as well. They would be very useful for dealing with low priority third world issues.

    nastle77

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:29 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Is it atleast theoretically possible to use SS-N-20 and SS-N-23 missiles of the Delta IV and Typhoon class SSBN in the anti-ship role ?

    .........


    Theoretically yes (a lot of stuff is possible in theory) but practically why bother?

    You have far better platforms for dealing with surface threats (nukes and all) and Deltas have more important roles to fulfill.

    They do have 3 older Deltas that are deemed too noisy even for SSBNs but it would make more sense to convert them into land attack ships by installing Kalibr LACMs instead of ICBMs. Far better than scraping them (they still sail and dive no problem)

    It would also trim down their crew complement significantly, probably operational costs as well. They would be very useful for dealing with low priority third world issues.

    Would it not be worth it if an entire SAG is wiped out by a single and couple of SSN20 missiles
    Esp if other platforms have been destroyed by the enemy like slava sovermenny nanuchka etc
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:47 pm

    nastle77 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Is it atleast theoretically possible to use SS-N-20 and SS-N-23 missiles of the Delta IV and Typhoon class SSBN in the anti-ship role ?

    .........


    Theoretically yes (a lot of stuff is possible in theory) but practically why bother?

    You have far better platforms for dealing with surface threats (nukes and all) and Deltas have more important roles to fulfill.

    They do have 3 older Deltas that are deemed too noisy even for SSBNs but it would make more sense to convert them into land attack ships by installing Kalibr LACMs instead of ICBMs. Far better than scraping them (they still sail and dive no problem)

    It would also trim down their crew complement significantly, probably operational costs as well. They would be very useful for dealing with low priority third world issues.

    Would it not be worth it if an entire SAG is wiped out by a single and couple of  SSN20 missiles
    Esp if other platforms have been destroyed by the enemy like slava sovermenny nanuchka etc

    What you describe is full blown nuclear war. If it comes to that Navies will be pretty irelevant.

    nastle77

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  nastle77 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:00 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    nastle77 wrote:Is it atleast theoretically possible to use SS-N-20 and SS-N-23 missiles of the Delta IV and Typhoon class SSBN in the anti-ship role ?

    .........


    Theoretically yes (a lot of stuff is possible in theory) but practically why bother?

    You have far better platforms for dealing with surface threats (nukes and all) and Deltas have more important roles to fulfill.

    They do have 3 older Deltas that are deemed too noisy even for SSBNs but it would make more sense to convert them into land attack ships by installing Kalibr LACMs instead of ICBMs. Far better than scraping them (they still sail and dive no problem)

    It would also trim down their crew complement significantly, probably operational costs as well. They would be very useful for dealing with low priority third world issues.

    Would it not be worth it if an entire SAG is wiped out by a single and couple of  SSN20 missiles
    Esp if other platforms have been destroyed by the enemy like slava sovermenny nanuchka etc

    What you describe is full blown nuclear war. If it comes to that Navies will be pretty irelevant.
    Not if the other side has no nukes
    Is it possible militarily?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:27 pm

    nastle77 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:....................
    What you describe is full blown nuclear war. If it comes to that Navies will be pretty irelevant.

    Not if the other side has no nukes
    Is it possible militarily?

    I don't think any side out there has navy that big without nukes other than Japan. But going full Armageddon on some medium sized navy would be total overkill.

    I mean if they wanted to they could incinerate region of the ocean where targets are with either nuke sub or land based ICBM without a problem but why? Especially if it is a non-nuclear military.

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