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    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History

    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf on Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:34 pm

    In 19th century it was common to make medals made of old enemy rifles and cannons. Maybe you serbs should make medals made of F-117, F-16, AH-64, Tornado, Phantoms and whatever you have shot down. That would be far greater honor to the owner then having the medal itself, but made of the rest of pieces of our all enemy.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:39 pm

    Werewolf wrote:In 19th century it was common to make medals made of old enemy rifles and cannons. Maybe you serbs should make medals made of F-117, F-16, AH-64, Tornado, Phantoms and whatever you have shot down. That would be far greater honor to the owner then having the medal itself, but made of the rest of pieces of our all enemy.

    We Serbs did something abit different which reminds alot of what you just said. Hope you find it amusing.

    Oplenac is church where members of your Karadjordjevic Royal family members are being buried. In that church there is one huge chandelier in shape of crown put upside down it has 9m in diameter and weights 1500kg, its symbol of our defeat in 1389. aganist Turks, however other symbolism is fact that it was made from broze taken out of our enemy guns during 1912-1918. wars. Symbolism of our rise.

    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History 75976181251adcd63c1a4a091923116_v4%20big

    Our military graveyard in Greece, Thessaloniki named Zejtinlik also has similar item in its chapel, just made out of shell casings.

    But i like your idea, we have quite a few parts of F117A and F16 left around for it Smile Even Predator Very Happy

    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History F-16_tail

    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History BAM-60-F-117A_Night_Hawk

    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History Predator_uav
    KiloGolf
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    Post  KiloGolf on Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:18 am

    Militarov wrote:Our military graveyard in Greece, Thessaloniki named Zejtinlik also has similar item in its chapel, just made out of shell casings.

    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History ZEITENLIK-20

    Interesting story and photos on Georgios Michailovits, the last Serbian soldier and guard of the Serbian sector of the Allied Tomb in Thessaloniki. His father was married to a Greek woman and he is also married to a Greek woman. "I will stay till I close my eyes, because if I leave it will be treason" he said.

    Read here: http://www.vice.com/gr/read/teleutaios-servos-stratiotis
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    Post  Guest on Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:56 pm



    Where The Yellow Lemon Blooms documentary movie about Serbian army retreat though Albania during WW1.
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:54 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    Where The Yellow Lemon Blooms documentary movie about Serbian army retreat though Albania during WW1.

    Well at least they are on par with MSTA-B... Rolling Eyes
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    Post  Guest on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:54 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    Where The Yellow Lemon Blooms documentary movie about Serbian army retreat though Albania during WW1.

    Well at least they are on par with MSTA-B... Rolling Eyes

    Truly amusing.

    Ways of operation havent changed much compared to Snaiders 75mm M7 p.D.M. that we operated back then tho. Everuting manual, minus horses for towing.

    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History Serbian75mmM1906
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    Post  Guest on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:54 pm

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    Post  Guest on Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:20 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Militarov wrote:Our military graveyard in Greece, Thessaloniki named Zejtinlik also has similar item in its chapel, just made out of shell casings.

    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History ZEITENLIK-20

    Interesting story and photos on Georgios Michailovits, the last Serbian soldier and guard of the Serbian sector of the Allied Tomb in Thessaloniki. His father was married to a Greek woman and he is also married to a Greek woman. "I will stay till I close my eyes, because if I leave it will be treason" he said.

    Read here: http://www.vice.com/gr/read/teleutaios-servos-stratiotis

    Visited it and talked with Mihalović, he speaks funny Serbian with obvious Greek accent. Great man, great Serb.
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Sun May 08, 2016 12:07 am

    SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

    what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

    On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

    The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

    The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
    My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



    On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

    Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



    You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
    -  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

    - openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

    - a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


    At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
    The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


    I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.


    Your claims are based on what?


    You are comparing the Royal Yugoslav Army, which offered minimal resistance to the Germans, with the heroic Yugoslav Partisans?

    There is not even a real comparison between these two!


    If they were all pardoned then what is the whining about Bleiburg about?


    About Germans read here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204160/Darkest-atrocities-Nazis-laid-bare-secretly-recorded-conversations-German-prisoners-war.html


    That the Germans and Italians used proxies makes these two innocent?
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 08, 2016 12:41 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

    what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

    On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

    The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

    The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
    My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



    On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

    Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



    You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
    -  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

    - openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

    - a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


    At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
    The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


    I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.


    Your claims are based on what?


    You are comparing the Royal Yugoslav Army, which offered minimal resistance to the Germans, with the heroic Yugoslav Partisans?

    There is not even a real comparison between these two!


    If they were all pardoned then what is the whining about Bleiburg about?


    About Germans read here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204160/Darkest-atrocities-Nazis-laid-bare-secretly-recorded-conversations-German-prisoners-war.html


    That the Germans and Italians used proxies makes these two innocent?

    Royal Yugoslav army was destroyed from the inside, mostly by Croats. My grand-grand father that was mobilised at that time, said that supply trains that came to Montenegro from Croatia to resupply their advance towards Italians to aid the Greeks were literally sabotaged. Shells came without fuses, boots were all cut, only crates of handgrenades came with nothing inside, ammunition that came was not coresponding with rifles they had. So, they had to halt operations after only 3 days due to lack of everything, as nearest major supply centers were in Croatia, which delivered junk. On purpose naturally.
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Sun May 08, 2016 12:44 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

    what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

    On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

    The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

    The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
    My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



    On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

    Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



    You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
    -  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

    - openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

    - a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


    At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
    The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


    I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.


    Your claims are based on what?


    You are comparing the Royal Yugoslav Army, which offered minimal resistance to the Germans, with the heroic Yugoslav Partisans?

    There is not even a real comparison between these two!


    If they were all pardoned then what is the whining about Bleiburg about?


    About Germans read here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204160/Darkest-atrocities-Nazis-laid-bare-secretly-recorded-conversations-German-prisoners-war.html


    That the Germans and Italians used proxies makes these two innocent?

    Royal Yugoslav army was destroyed from the inside, mostly by Croats. My grand-grand father that was mobilised at that time, said that supply trains that came to Montenegro from Croatia to resupply their advance towards Italians to aid the Greeks were literally sabotaged. Shells came without fuses, boots were all cut, only crates of handgrenades came with nothing inside, ammunition that came was not coresponding with rifles they had. So, they had to halt operations after only 3 days due to lack of everything, as nearest major supply centers were in Croatia, which delivered junk. On purpose naturally.


    Only that they put up hardly any fight in Serbia itself.

    You cannot blame everything on the Croat separatists.
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 08, 2016 12:54 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

    what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

    On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

    The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

    The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
    My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



    On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

    Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



    You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
    -  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

    - openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

    - a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


    At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
    The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


    I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.


    Your claims are based on what?


    You are comparing the Royal Yugoslav Army, which offered minimal resistance to the Germans, with the heroic Yugoslav Partisans?

    There is not even a real comparison between these two!


    If they were all pardoned then what is the whining about Bleiburg about?


    About Germans read here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204160/Darkest-atrocities-Nazis-laid-bare-secretly-recorded-conversations-German-prisoners-war.html


    That the Germans and Italians used proxies makes these two innocent?

    Royal Yugoslav army was destroyed from the inside, mostly by Croats. My grand-grand father that was mobilised at that time, said that supply trains that came to Montenegro from Croatia to resupply their advance towards Italians to aid the Greeks were literally sabotaged. Shells came without fuses, boots were all cut, only crates of handgrenades came with nothing inside, ammunition that came was not coresponding with rifles they had. So, they had to halt operations after only 3 days due to lack of everything, as nearest major supply centers were in Croatia, which delivered junk. On purpose naturally.


    Only that they put up hardly any fight in Serbia itself.

    You cannot blame everything on the Croat separatists.

    Commander of the defence in my city for an example was Slovenian, he told soldiers to lay weapons and go homes. He himself went to greet advancing Germans, one his unit rejected orders and shot two German soldiers on motorcycle.. only two German victims in very wide area.

    Yugoslav army had people of various nations serving everywhere across the country, you have some shiny examples of Croats fighting actually, but very few. On other hand you have many examples like one i stated above. And overall defence doctrine of Yugoslav army was wrong, rushing to borders to defend them... there is a book "Pad Kraljevine Jugoslavije", 3 volumes, explaining why and how it happened, would take ages to rephase it.
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Sun May 08, 2016 1:08 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

    what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

    On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

    The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

    The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
    My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



    On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

    Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



    You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
    -  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

    - openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

    - a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


    At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
    The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


    I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.


    Your claims are based on what?


    You are comparing the Royal Yugoslav Army, which offered minimal resistance to the Germans, with the heroic Yugoslav Partisans?

    There is not even a real comparison between these two!


    If they were all pardoned then what is the whining about Bleiburg about?


    About Germans read here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204160/Darkest-atrocities-Nazis-laid-bare-secretly-recorded-conversations-German-prisoners-war.html


    That the Germans and Italians used proxies makes these two innocent?

    Royal Yugoslav army was destroyed from the inside, mostly by Croats. My grand-grand father that was mobilised at that time, said that supply trains that came to Montenegro from Croatia to resupply their advance towards Italians to aid the Greeks were literally sabotaged. Shells came without fuses, boots were all cut, only crates of handgrenades came with nothing inside, ammunition that came was not coresponding with rifles they had. So, they had to halt operations after only 3 days due to lack of everything, as nearest major supply centers were in Croatia, which delivered junk. On purpose naturally.


    Only that they put up hardly any fight in Serbia itself.

    You cannot blame everything on the Croat separatists.

    Commander of the defence in my city for an example was Slovenian, he told soldiers to lay weapons and go homes. He himself went to greet advancing Germans, one his unit rejected orders and shot two German soldiers on motorcycle.. only two German victims in very wide area.

    Yugoslav army had people of various nations serving everywhere across the country, you have some shiny examples of Croats fighting actually, but very few. On other hand you have many examples like one i stated above. And overall defence doctrine of Yugoslav army was wrong, rushing to borders to defend them... there is a book "Pad Kraljevine Jugoslavije", 3 volumes, explaining why and how it happened, would take ages to rephase it.


    That Slovene was by any chance the rabid anti-Communist Rupnik?

    All the generals in the Royal Yugoslav Army were either Serbs or Montenegrins, with the exception of a single Slovene, and that was Rupnik, and he was only a brigadier-general.

    The Royal Yugoslav Army was heavily dominated by the ethnic Serbs at the top. You cannot blame some Slovene for the minimal resistance it offered to the Germans in 1941.
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 08, 2016 2:04 am

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:

    That Slovene was by any chance the rabid anti-Communist Rupnik?

    All the generals in the Royal Yugoslav Army were either Serbs or Montenegrins, with the exception of a single Slovene, and that was Rupnik, and he was only a brigadier-general.

    The Royal Yugoslav Army was heavily dominated by the ethnic Serbs at the top. You cannot blame some Slovene for the minimal resistance it offered to the Germans in 1941.

    No, he was colonel i belive, and i do not recall his name, he was infantry colonel that was commander of local military facility, batallion lvl with attached artillery company.

    That actually is not completely true:

    "Out of 24 separate command centers directly under General Staff only one was directly under officer that was Serban by nationality, rest were either directly under Croats or "Ex Austrohungarian officers". Kingdom was separated in 6 administrative zones, which matched army sections, only one had Serbian commander (Mirko Bogićević), two were under Croats (Romuald Manola and Eugen Kurelec) and three under Slovenians (Branko Tominshek, Danilo Tranpush and Ignjac Furlan).

    Royal Air force had 4 brigades, which of two had Croatian commanders (Dragutin Rupčić and Nikola Obuljen - both joined Ustaša movemen during first days of war). Out of 8 airforce squadrons, 6 were commanded by Slovenians and Croats, all of which except certain Ferd Gradišnik surrendered to the Germans or joined "Croatian" army during first days of the war.

    Royal Guard had two cavalary squadrons and both were commanded by ex Austro-Hungarian officers, certain Kokalj and Kraus, both joined Ustaša movement after 11th april.

    Out of 6 engineering batallions all 6 were commanded by Croats. Similar situation repeats itself in the rest of the armed forces"

    Source is book (rather a script) named "National structure of Royal Yugoslav Army" written by Branko Jevtić.

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    marat

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    Post  marat on Sun May 08, 2016 10:21 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Commander of the defence in my city for an example was Slovenian, he told soldiers to lay weapons and go homes. He himself went to greet advancing Germans, one his unit rejected orders and shot two German soldiers on motorcycle.. only two German victims in very wide area.

    Yugoslav army had people of various nations serving everywhere across the country, you have some shiny examples of Croats fighting actually, but very few. On other hand you have many examples like one i stated above. And overall defence doctrine of Yugoslav army was wrong, rushing to borders to defend them... there is a book "Pad Kraljevine Jugoslavije", 3 volumes, explaining why and how it happened, would take ages to rephase it.

    And why soliders lisned to him and didn fight? Most soliders were Serbs, most officers were Serbs, but almost none of them didint figh, nither Serbs nither Croats or Slovenians. Whole units staffed with mostly Serbs didnt fight at all, Belgrade was captured by recce squad. All towns in Serbia also fall to Germans without any fight.


    You really cannot blame Croats or Slovenians. And Slovenians acctually were quite loyal.

    Kingdom was rotten and nobody didnt wanted to fight for it. And thats applied to Serbs too not just for Croats.
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    Post  Guest on Thu May 19, 2016 10:46 pm

    marat wrote:
    Militarov wrote:    
    Commander of the defence in my city for an example was Slovenian, he told soldiers to lay weapons and go homes. He himself went to greet advancing Germans, one his unit rejected orders and shot two German soldiers on motorcycle.. only two German victims in very wide area.

    Yugoslav army had people of various nations serving everywhere across the country, you have some shiny examples of Croats fighting actually, but very few. On other hand you have many examples like one i stated above. And overall defence doctrine of Yugoslav army was wrong, rushing to borders to defend them... there is a book "Pad Kraljevine Jugoslavije", 3 volumes, explaining why and how it happened, would take ages to rephase it.

    And why soliders lisned to him and didn fight? Most soliders were Serbs, most officers were Serbs, but almost none of them didint figh, nither Serbs nither Croats or Slovenians. Whole units staffed with mostly Serbs didnt fight at all, Belgrade was captured by recce squad. All towns in Serbia also fall to Germans without any fight.


    You really cannot blame Croats or Slovenians. And Slovenians acctually were quite loyal.

    Kingdom was rotten and nobody didnt wanted to fight for it. And thats applied to Serbs too not just for Croats.

    You expect from common peasants without officers and supplies to fight German army in 1941? And achieve what?

    Serbs did fight on many places during that war but they were isolated, betrayed, ill equiped, without supplies, they would give resistance for day, two and then retreat or go home, try to hide service rifle for later. You cant expect from people to fight frontline war without officers and real chain of command.

    And no, majority of officers were not Serbians at least not in units that really count in case of whar, airforce, navy, artillery... Serbs were majority in infantry that couldnt do much on its own.
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    Post  SturmGuard on Fri May 27, 2016 3:10 pm

    Well, the Germans certainly knew who had resisted and who had the potential to be an actual troublemaker.

    They took almost 200 000 RYA prisoners to camps in Germany. Gestapo HQ in Serbia had more than 5000 files and the vast majority of resources and manpower dedicated to JVuO and Chetniks. In contrast, the Yugocommunists weren't even deemed worthy of Gestapo bother, being relegated to Nedić auxiliary government (which had minimal authority as Serbia was placed under direct German military rule).

    For all this "brave Yugo partisan resistance nonsense", their actual impact was negligible when it comes to Germans and Italians. Something like 10 000 German KIAs, most of it during Axis operations to eliminate Partisans. No concentration camps attacked, no offensives started, no resource and logistic attacks. They "liberated" some Yugoslav cities when Hitler was already dead and Soviet flags were raised in Berlin, Vienna, Prague. They only excelled in sacrificing their people en masse to save the incompetent leadership and scum Tito, forcefully mobilising common people and suffering huge losses. I almost forgot, they also excelled in provoking retributions against civilians, for example Vojnić region, due to actions of some "Heroes of the people".

    And just to remind you all, the Yugocommunists greeted the foreign invasion, proclaiming it a perfect opportunity for their revolution, among others. I won't go into further details about their writings and ideas. The consequences of their disastrous rule are evident to this day, as are the consequences of the thorough indoctrination and propaganda campaign.

    I cringe when I read foreign texts on Yugoslav partisan resistance against invaders and proclamations about the "greatest resistance movement". In reality, they are right there next to French. Unfortunately, we can't make 'Allo 'Allo because of the many tragic events during and after the war.

    Btw, I really like this talk of "weak Yugoslavia so no resistance". What can be said about SFRJ then? Was it attacked from multiple fronts by leading militaries in Europe? Where were you all dedicated and convinced Yugoslavs and Yugocommunists? That's right, hiding and keeping quiet, "minding your own business", just like the opportunistic, treasonous and cowardly lot you and your ancestors were.


    Serf mentality and ruthless opportunism; few good and brave people.


    Bleiburg is just the most media exposed case. Politicide, mass executions, ethnic cleansing (Volks and Italians), forced labour camps, elimination of "enemies of people" took place on a large scale.


    Last edited by SturmGuard on Fri May 27, 2016 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:19 am

    SturmGuard wrote:Well, the Germans certainly knew who had resisted and who had the potential to be an actual troublemaker.

    They took almost 200 000 RYA prisoners to camps in Germany. Gestapo HQ in Serbia had more than 5000 files and the vast majority of resources and manpower dedicated to JVuO and Chetniks. In contrast, the Yugocommunists weren't even deemed worthy of Gestapo bother, being relegated to Nedić auxiliary government (which had minimal authority as Serbia was placed under direct German military rule).

    For all this "brave Yugo partisan resistance nonsense", their actual impact was negligible when it comes to Germans and Italians. Something like 10 000 German KIAs, most of it during Axis operations to eliminate Partisans. No concentration camps attacked, no offensives started, no resource and logistic attacks. They "liberated" some Yugoslav cities when Hitler was already dead and Soviet flags were raised in Berlin, Vienna, Prague. They only excelled in sacrificing their people en masse to save the incompetent leadership and scum Tito, forcefully mobilising common people and suffering huge losses. I almost forgot, they also excelled in provoking retributions against civilians, for example Vojnić region, due to actions of some "Heroes of the people".

    And just to remind you all, the Yugocommunists greeted the foreign invasion, proclaiming it a perfect opportunity for their revolution, among others. I won't go into further details about their writings and ideas. The consequences of their disastrous rule are evident to this day, as are the consequences of the thorough indoctrination and propaganda campaign.

    I cringe when I read foreign texts on Yugoslav partisan resistance against invaders and proclamations about the "greatest resistance movement". In reality, they are right there next to French. Unfortunately, we can't make 'Allo 'Allo because of the many tragic events during and after the war.

    Btw, I really like this talk of "weak Yugoslavia so no resistance". What can be said about SFRJ then? Was it attacked from multiple fronts by leading militaries in Europe? Where were you all dedicated and convinced Yugoslavs and Yugocommunists? That's right, hiding and keeping quiet, "minding your own business", just like the opportunistic, treasonous and cowardly lot you and your ancestors were.


    Serf mentality and ruthless opportunism; few good and brave people.


    Bleiburg is just the most media exposed case. Politicide, mass executions, ethnic cleansing (Volks and Italians), forced labour camps, elimination of "enemies of people" took place on a large scale.



    I think that the Yugoslav Partisans killed:


    100 000 NDH troops and policemen.

    50 000 German troops and policemen.

    12 000 Italian troops and policemen.

    Some Bulgarians and Hungarians.


    On the other hand the Chetniks killed 10 000 NDH troops and policemen. They killed hardly any Germans, Italians, Bulgarians and Hungarians.


    WWII Chetniks:

    http://www.vojska.net/eng/world-war-2/chetniks/


    As far as attacking camps by Communist-led partisans, you may want to check this page:

    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-GL42.html


    There was an instance in Hungary when a local concentration camp was even evacuated because the Hungarians feared that it was to be attacked by the Yugoslav Partisans, albeit I guess that must have been somewhere close to the border.
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    Post  Grazneyar on Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:55 am

    Werewolf wrote:In 19th century it was common to make medals made of old enemy rifles and cannons. Maybe you serbs should make medals made of F-117, F-16, AH-64, Tornado, Phantoms and whatever you have shot down. That would be far greater honor to the owner then having the medal itself, but made of the rest of pieces of our all enemy.

    This ^^
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    Post  Katsudonsan on Thu May 25, 2017 1:36 pm

    Hello there,



    I recently purchased this Kingdom of Yugoslavia military issued pilot watch circa 1920/1930. Could I trouble somebody to tell me what the insignia stands for? As well as the wording around it. Thank you all! And sorry for any inconveniences caused.



    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History Img_6610
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 28, 2017 2:31 pm

    Katsudonsan wrote:Hello there,



    I recently purchased this Kingdom of Yugoslavia military issued pilot watch circa 1920/1930. Could I trouble somebody to tell me what the insignia stands for? As well as the wording around it. Thank you all! And sorry for any inconveniences caused.



    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History Img_6610

    It says: "We will protect Yugoslavia"

    VA - Acronyme for "Military Academy"

    5th Class
    Katsudonsan
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    Post  Katsudonsan on Sun May 28, 2017 7:18 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    Katsudonsan wrote:Hello there,



    I recently purchased this Kingdom of Yugoslavia military issued pilot watch circa 1920/1930. Could I trouble somebody to tell me what the insignia stands for? As well as the wording around it. Thank you all! And sorry for any inconveniences caused.



    Serbian/Royal Yugoslav Military History Img_6610

    It says: "We will protect Yugoslavia"

    VA - Acronyme for "Military Academy"

    5th Class


    Thanks again sir! You've been very helpful.
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    Post  Guest on Sun May 28, 2017 7:26 pm

    Katsudonsan wrote:Thanks again sir! You've been very helpful.

    You are welcome. If you have any further questions or anything regarding Serbia or Serbian military feel free to PM or ask me on topics.

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