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    Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

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    Vladimir79

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    Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:15 pm

    Thing of the week: Rafale
    24/08/2009

    The latest French fighter Rafale was the only foreign novelty MAKS-2009, and indeed the only Western combat aircraft, represented as a party demonstration flights in the cabin. True, and consider it to be only in the air, among the exhibits for the public it is not.

    This uniqueness can be regarded as a symbol of a sudden started last year, military-technical rapprochement between Russia and France. Particular interest is aroused in talks to buy Russian amphibious assault ship Mistral, which is essential for the national Navy is extremely doubtful.

    Soon, apparently, will discuss another purchase - French complex Felin. This outfit infantryman of the future, making him look like a robot: it will be equipped with the latest means of communication, navigation and defense. There is talk about joint production of matrices for thermal imagers. Apparently, all these projects will be much more in demand than the Mistral: Land in Russia's armed forces will always be more work than at sea.

    Deepening the Russo-French military ties, in honor of whom had flown Rafale, is undoubtedly connected with the main domestic event MAKS - Air Force Russia an unprecedented order: 64 aircraft, Sukhoi, the contract amount - 80 billion rubles. Military procurement in time of crisis become a key form of support for the aerospace and general high-tech industry, and, last but not least, for the first time for Russia's military industry is the main customer of the army.

    Another hero of the salon was Russo-Ukrainian civilian airliner An-148, which increasingly resembles a commercial product: the number of contracts and pre-contract agreements on the plane has reached fifty units. Once the An-148 was considered the main rival to Russia's civil aviarazrabotki - Sukhoi Superjet, but at this MAKS both new peacefully coexist.

    Alexei Nikolsky

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    sepheronx

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:10 pm

    Interesting.

    Question though. During the time when Russia was needing Thermal imagers for the T-90 tanks, didn't a Russian company have a working thermal imager (albeit it was not up to the standards)? Cause if that was the case, why not work more on it?

    Second. Why work further on land based projects? The mistral was a good idea. Feline project? Not so much. Russia is better off just contracting the small tech development company (cant remember the name, they made the smallest voice recorder and video recorder), to create military based equipment like communications and basic imagers for troops (there is no need for high end thermals for basic troops).
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    Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:47 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Interesting.

    Question though. During the time when Russia was needing Thermal imagers for the T-90 tanks, didn't a Russian company have a working thermal imager (albeit it was not up to the standards)? Cause if that was the case, why not work more on it?

    Based on obsolete set of technologies. It would require whole new method costing hundreds of millions just to get it off the ground.

    Second. Why work further on land based projects? The mistral was a good idea. Feline project? Not so much. Russia is better off just contracting the small tech development company (cant remember the name, they made the smallest voice recorder and video recorder), to create military based equipment like communications and basic imagers for troops (there is no need for high end thermals for basic troops).

    High end thermals are necessary to give weapons their maximum range in all weather conditions day and night. I am sure you can see the value of this.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:35 pm

    Yes and No.

    In aspect, it is good to have advanced technologies to your troops. But in the end, is the cost and performance going to justify the purchase for the troops? It makes sense for these types of equipment for lets say: Snipers, Special Forces, Interior troops. But for regular troops? I can see the use of GPS and advanced communication devices for squad leaders.

    I have mixed feelings about these.

    And I guess it is a win win for Russia and France in the development of Thermal technologies: Russia gets state of the art thermal technology and capabilities to develop it without the R&D cost, and France gets money.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:53 pm

    I think you are confused about the size of this camera. They are only going on front line armour elements such as T-90S, BMP-3, and BTR-80. It is mainly for long range target acquisition for ATGMs and provided for command/recon vehicles to have comprehensive look at the battlefield. They are not going to individual soldiers . We make suffucient equipment in that area.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:54 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:I think you are confused about the size of this camera. They are only going on front line armour elements such as T-90S, BMP-3, and BTR-80. It is mainly for long range target acquisition for ATGMs and provided for command/recon vehicles to have comprehensive look at the battlefield. They are not going to individual soldiers . We make suffucient equipment in that area.

    But the Feline system you made mention from the article is a combat system for troops, not armor systems. Which I will say again, why bother with it when Russia has the tech to create their own?

    As for the other equipment. It is good and all, but I still think investments in their own industries (or at least to the bank in order to then lend to small industries) to develop the equipment is better, as it will bring tech advancement and foreign investments into the country.

    Example is UAV's. Everyone was saying Russia was incapable of building decent UAV's and they need to buy from other countries. Then there was the showing the Dozor-600, which is capable of flying and landing like an aircraft, has advanced optics and can use missiles. It is comparable to western UAV's/UCAV's and it was built in Russia.

    Just because the industries don't have the exact know how to build it, does not mean that they are completely incapable of doing it. Just takes some funds and time.

    Key to having a powerful economic nation: Agriculture (being able to feed your people and provide food to other nations for a price), Industry (Being able to create and research nearly everything, also Fabrication facilities to turn raw material into something useful), Infrastructure (in order to meet new demands in development in technology, you will need the equipment. At that, facilities need to be upkept so no failures can happen), Social networks (Good to be able to keep everyone happy with providing for your citizens. Providing entertainment and various other systems to keep moral up, will decrease crime and keep production running).

    Now if you invest in various other countries, it does give you some power and international recognition. But if you do not invest in your own country, then moral will be low, production will be low, and jobs will be more scarce.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:15 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    But the Feline system you made mention from the article is a combat system for troops, not armor systems. Which I will say again, why bother with it when Russia has the tech to create their own?

    We will not be buying it. Even the US has forgone most of their future kombat soldier programme.

    As for the other equipment. It is good and all, but I still think investments in their own industries (or at least to the bank in order to then lend to small industries) to develop the equipment is better, as it will bring tech advancement and foreign investments into the country.

    Problem with that is, the state owns all defence enterprises and small industries have nothing to do with it. It is all part of the state machine. For it to bring FDI, they would need to sell off stocks. For it to be competitive on the global arms market, it has to be of such high quality that it would cost billions to overcome the competition which would be unfeasable given our economic situation.

    Example is UAV's. Everyone was saying Russia was incapable of building decent UAV's and they need to buy from other countries. Then there was the showing the Dozor-600, which is capable of flying and landing like an aircraft, has advanced optics and can use missiles. It is comparable to western UAV's/UCAV's and it was built in Russia.

    UAVs are a good example to the contrary. We bought Israeli UAVs so we can incorporate certain technologies we cannot economically develop into Dozor-600.

    Just because the industries don't have the exact know how to build it, does not mean that they are completely incapable of doing it. Just takes some funds and time.

    Two things which we do not have.

    Key to having a powerful economic nation: Agriculture (being able to feed your people and provide food to other nations for a price), Industry (Being able to create and research nearly everything, also Fabrication facilities to turn raw material into something useful), Infrastructure (in order to meet new demands in development in technology, you will need the equipment. At that, facilities need to be upkept so no failures can happen), Social networks (Good to be able to keep everyone happy with providing for your citizens. Providing entertainment and various other systems to keep moral up, will decrease crime and keep production running).

    All that you speak of talks of a closed economy. This is not how the world operates today. Today it is all about comparitive advantage, that which you can make better and/or cheaper than anyone else. This especially applies to the defence sector which sells mostly abroad. The French have sold us production rights to the Catherine thermals, with this we have been able to obtain orders for over a thousand T-90S. Su-30s could not have been sold in many cases without French products installed. Since we have such high orders for it, why should we bother reinventing the wheel when we can buy and produce it for much less with production rights? We now have Catherine thermals and Domacles targetting pods being produced at Ural Optics going on all new tanks and bombers. It is a huge leap in technology and ability for pennies compared to what it would cost to develop it ourselves. Since we have the machines to build it, no one can cut us off. Our security is not threatened.

    As far as basic economics, providing everything in your own country decreases quality of life for your citizens since you do not have comparative advantage in everything. The price of your good would be so expensive, few people could afford them. This is why trade has made the West so wealthy.

    Now if you invest in various other countries, it does give you some power and international recognition. But if you do not invest in your own country, then moral will be low, production will be low, and jobs will be more scarce.

    Of course you want to invest in your own country, but only in what you will have a comparative advantage in, or something that is a national necessity you cannot rely on others to obtain. Food and energy may fall into these catagories if there is some global catastrophe, but not at present. Russia is actually self sufficient in both at subsistence levels.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:51 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Problem with that is, the state owns all defense enterprises and small industries have nothing to do with it. It is all part of the state machine. For it to bring FDI, they would need to sell off stocks. For it to be competitive on the global arms market, it has to be of such high quality that it would cost billions to overcome the competition which would be unfeasible given our economic situation.
    I don't quite understand. Even if the defense industries may have large amounts of stock which is held by the state, and if sold off for private use, then why would anything change? Russia already operates in the high tech industry. The way you make it sound like, is that your country is backwards, which it is not (develops competitive technology like USA, UK, Germany, France, Japan, China, etc). The defense industry being one of the largest. If Russia decided to privatize it, it would open even more possibilities with various other investments from various other countries and alike.

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    All that you speak of talks of a closed economy. This is not how the world operates today. Today it is all about comparitive advantage, that which you can make better and/or cheaper than anyone else. This especially applies to the defence sector which sells mostly abroad. The French have sold us production rights to the Catherine thermals, with this we have been able to obtain orders for over a thousand T-90S. Su-30s could not have been sold in many cases without French products installed. Since we have such high orders for it, why should we bother reinventing the wheel when we can buy and produce it for much less with production rights? We now have Catherine thermals and Domacles targetting pods being produced at Ural Optics going on all new tanks and bombers. It is a huge leap in technology and ability for pennies compared to what it would cost to develop it ourselves. Since we have the machines to build it, no one can cut us off. Our security is not threatened.

    As far as basic economics, providing everything in your own country decreases quality of life for your citizens since you do not have comparative advantage in everything. The price of your good would be so expensive, few people could afford them. This is why trade has made the West so wealthy.

    Not really. After the end of the second world war, USA decided to "lend" a hand in re-development of infrastructure of countries whom where attacked by Germany and are not part of the USSR aftermath. In doing so, Europe and Asia owed a large dept (and still do) to USA, and to which, gave USA such a huge credit rating. And that is what makes one country have a higher GDP then another, credit. If the country has industry and various other systems that makes it worth a lot to loan out, then that country has a higher GDP. It was not necessarily trade that gave USA the advantage, it was the fact that everyone owed USA money, and USA opened American industries around the world. The imports was goods that cost very little, and where still gained through industries which are owned by the USA.

    The advantage that Russia has, it has pretty much every known resource in the world, on her land. There is a huge amount of land that is good for agriculture and since there are around (and somewhat above) 1 billion people who starve in this world, food is a commodity that is much needed. But what would make things even better, is the facilities to create new items that can be sold as specialized items to various countries. Yes, cost of food and other gadgets will go up, but that is why you still purchase food and various other commodities from other countries. You can sell high quality beef, chicken, corn, wheat, etc to other countries, and import for your own people. It is like the relationship between USA and Canada here. We sell oil, Beef, natural resources to USA. They sell us: Beef, Technology, and fabricated oil. See what I am getting at (we (Canada) used to have our own fabrication facilities for our Oil, but most of them where sold off to USA. We only have a couple left, and one of them is in Edmonton Alberta).

    Edit: Anyway, by the sounds of things, Medvedev sure knows what he is doing. He is being honest (best policy in any job) and is telling the truth. Once the truth gets out their, they know the president is angry, and in doing so, will fix the problems. Russia is a country with over 100M people, vast land with tons of natural resources which are needed on a global scale. There is possibly no way Russia can screw up. This economic downturn is an eye opener and proof that what Russia was doing would not last forever, and they know it. So, they are taking other actions and doing other stuff in order to make sure that 1) this does not happen again and (2) That the GDP will be back at a large growth rate.
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    Purchases of Foreign military equipment: Positives & Negatives

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:36 pm

    This is regarding in Russia purchasing technology from France.  As smart as it is to have development costs reduced in purchasing systems that are already out in the market and may be proven, is it really worth it when they know what tech you use?

    Here is a quote based on the FELIN system that France showed off at MAKS and Russia eyed it:
    Russia considers buying French infantry combat suits

    France's FELIN infantry combat suit shown at the MAKS-2009 air show in Zhukovsky near Moscow has attracted the attention of the Russian Defense Ministry, which may consider buying it.

    FELIN (Integrated Equipment and Communications Infantryman) combines a modified FAMAS rifle with a host of other electronics, clothing, pouches, and body armor. The integral SPECTRA helmet is fitted with a real-time positioning and information system and light amplifiers for night vision.

    The Russian military is in talks with France's Sagem of the Safran group, which developed FELIN, on the possibility of buying the suits, the newspaper has learned from a source in the Russian Defense Ministry and an employee of an aircraft manufacturing company close to Sagem.

    A Russian officer said that the French body armor and other individual protection systems are inferior to U.S. or German-made systems, but FELIN's electronic elements are extremely attractive. According to his information, the French have expressed a readiness to Russify the software and adjust the electronic systems to Russian tactical norms and designations.

    The purchase of FELIN suits would be reasonable only if Russia also gets the related technology, said Mikhail Barabanov, an editor at the Moscow Defense Brief magazine.

    Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, said the French partners could agree to turn over the technology, and that this would not damage France's security even though it is a NATO member.

    However, there was a case when the purchase of French weapons damaged the importer. During the Falklands War in 1982, France disclosed to Britain the codes for the anti-ship missiles it had supplied to Argentina. However, it did so only after its closest ally put powerful pressure on it, and this in a highly dramatic situation.

    Pukhov said that France would not do this for Georgia or any other post-Soviet country where weapons incorporating French systems could be used.
    Source

    Now, take a good look at the bold comment; tell me you do not see anything wrong with this?

    OK, yes I am being somewhat pessimistic in thinking that Russia will have direct conflict with NATO (it is not that far fetched).  But what if Russia came into a physical contact with another country whom France deems an ally or is part of some alliance with them?  At this point, it would bring pressure to France to give away the tech secretes the Russian's use if they did indeed buy this system, to the Thermal imagers used in the tanks all the way up to the Mistral class helicopter carriers.

    The plus side though is, Russia bypasses R&D in the long aspect, and only needs small amount of funds and R&D for alternatives to the systems used in the ships, combat system and thermal imagers.  But at what point would it make it different to that used by France?

    Software is the key to making even the standard of hardware act and perform differently (As seen in basic house hold computers.  Systems using Linux, Windows, Unix, MAC OSX, Sun OS, etc will operate differently depending on coding and hardware support).  Now, If Russia changed the software, it would take away that advantage that France has.  But in the same sense, what about the telecommunication systems?  Since modern systems are software based rather then a basic radio signal, then encrypting the systems with your own devices would hold quite well.

    Does Russia possess the capabilities of these?  I would suppose so.  Since Russia develops their own military tech and software to boot, then my only guess they would develop alternatives to western based systems with their own.  But at what cost?

    As long as these projects come in a "barebone" kit (much like PC's can be done), then I guess there is no harm done.  At least Russia saves hundreds millions on R&D on the core shell.

    Take all this with a grain of salt.  As I read further and learn more about various countries, I still do not quite know what all the industries are in Russia.  Or even the full capabilities of the country in overall.  Maybe I am just being paranoid?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:12 pm

    FELIN Infantry Combat Suite

    http://defense-update.com/features/du-2-07/felin.htm

    Now, take a good look at the bold comment; tell me you do not see anything wrong with this?

    Looks like a pretty good kit. 30,000 costs $800 million. It would cost $10 billion to arm our ground forces so that obviously isn't going to happen. I assume it would be for a select few spetsnaz units. There is no threat to national security from it. The software code is not important unless they can hack our network which will be ours, not French. GLONASS will be ours, communications will be ours and there is nothing the French will have to give them to get into that.


    OK, yes I am being somewhat pessimistic in thinking that Russia will have direct conflict with NATO (it is not that far fetched). But what if Russia came into a physical contact with another country whom France deems an ally or is part of some alliance with them? At this point, it would bring pressure to France to give away the tech secretes the Russian's use if they did indeed buy this system, to the Thermal imagers used in the tanks all the way up to the Mistral class helicopter carriers.

    What can you do to a thermal imager? You can't hack it. What can you do to a transfered LPD that is going to have Russian comms and systems... Nothing

    The plus side though is, Russia bypasses R&D in the long aspect, and only needs small amount of funds and R&D for alternatives to the systems used in the ships, combat system and thermal imagers. But at what point would it make it different to that used by France?

    Software is the key to making even the standard of hardware act and perform differently (As seen in basic house hold computers. Systems using Linux, Windows, Unix, MAC OSX, Sun OS, etc will operate differently depending on coding and hardware support). Now, If Russia changed the software, it would take away that advantage that France has. But in the same sense, what about the telecommunication systems? Since modern systems are software based rather then a basic radio signal, then encrypting the systems with your own devices would hold quite well.

    What difference does it make if we have a secure network? Anyone can hack software once you have access to it. The key is to keep them out of it.

    Does Russia possess the capabilities of these? I would suppose so. Since Russia develops their own military tech and software to boot, then my only guess they would develop alternatives to western based systems with their own. But at what cost?

    We have our own networks, several versions in fact. What we are trying to do is bring them up to the same digital standard. We have no problem making new software, the best programmers in the world are Russian.

    As long as these projects come in a "barebone" kit (much like PC's can be done), then I guess there is no harm done. At least Russia saves hundreds millions on R&D on the core shell.

    Take all this with a grain of salt. As I read further and learn more about various countries, I still do not quite know what all the industries are in Russia. Or even the full capabilities of the country in overall. Maybe I am just being paranoid?

    Programming is not a problem for us. If this is your only concern I would not be too worried about it. Our main concern is keeping a secure digital network.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:39 am

    I don't doubt in Russians not being the best in software development. I mean, one of the founders of google was a russian immigrant. Anyway, I understand about the networking and yes, I agree, keeping a secured network would prevent the enemy from gaining acess to military networks and systems. I would just like to see more coming from Russia in terms of software development. Especially in operating systems. It is a huge market that can make companies billions.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:24 pm

    Just found out they actually cost $45,000 for one kit. No way are we buying this shyte.
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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:25 pm

    Like I said, I wouldn't be too worried about it...

    Russia's Defense Ministry has denied plans to purchase imported equipment for soldiers

    Russia is not yet in talks with foreign companies on the procurement elements of equipment for the military. This, as reported by Interfax, said on Aug. 25 informed source in Russia's Defense Ministry, commented the early reports of the relevant negotiations with France.

    "With representatives of French industry, as well as with defense enterprises of other countries, negotiations on the purchase of items of military equipment to equip Russia's army is not maintained, - the interlocutor said Interfax.

    At the same time, he said, the Defense Ministry carefully studying the experience of leading countries of the world, including Europe, in individual soldier equipment. The source also said that the development of equipment for individual equipment of troops is one of the priorities of the state armament program, and Russia's defense industry has been actively working in this direction.

    Recall that the negotiations between Russia's military department and the French company Sagem to buy equipment infantryman of the future on Aug. 25 reported the newspaper Vedomosti, citing a source in the military. Officially, this information is not confirmed in the Defense Ministry, and in Sagem.

    According to the newspaper, a set FELIN (Fantassin a Equipements et Liaisons Integres) was demonstrated at the MAKS-2009. It includes built-in computer with information about the enemy and the situation of soldiers, helmet sight, navigation and radio communications, as well as other components. The cost of one set of FELIN, according to the previously published data, is about 45 thousand dollars.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2009/08/25/deny/
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    Russia buys 8 sets of FELIN future combat suits

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:55 pm

    General Staff of Russia confirmed the purchase of sets of "soldier of the future" in France
    28/08/2009

    Military departments of Russia buys abroad several sets of uniforms for the military. According to Interfax, on August 26, said Chief of General Staff of the Armed Forces, Army General Nikolai Makarov, commenting on previously published in the media information. "We want to buy a minimum quantity, may be eight sets of all, compared with our equipping", - said the general.

    Negotiations between Russia's Defense Ministry and the French company Sagem about buying kits FELIN (Fantassin a Equipements et Liaisons Integres) announced Aug. 25 the newspaper Vedomosti. However, as the same day, said in an interview to "Interfax" the anonymous source in the Defense Ministry of Russia, this information does not correspond to reality.

    At the same time, he reported that the Defense Ministry is studying the experience of other countries in the field of individual soldier equipment. Its development is one of the priorities of the state armament program, and Russia's defense industry has been actively working in this direction. "

    Recall that a similar situation in 2008, and unmanned aerial vehicles of the Israeli production, procurement which first reported in the State Duma Defense Committee, but on the same day, denied this information. Nevertheless, as a result of the deal between Russia and Israel was officially confirmed, although the military reported that the vehicle is purchased not for combat, but to study.

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    Last edited by Vladimir79 on Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Russian purchases of Foreign military equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:48 pm

    Russia's military will purchase from the national defense "only the most modern and sophisticated weapons - Deputy Defense Minister
    25.09.2009

    Moscow. September 23. Interfax-AVN - Russia's military establishment opposed to support the domestic military-industrial complex, buying unnecessary and obsolete weapons, said the chief armament of the Armed Forces of Russia - Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin.

    Army - I always said and will say - no social security. We should not just maintain our defense industry, we are called by the defense to claim that weapons, which would, if necessary, to defend the country "- said V. Savin, in an interview which is published in the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda on Wednesday.

    As an example he cited the situation of the elemental base in weapons systems.

    "Using imported or foreign element base for the strategic nuclear forces is prohibited. But the rest of the prohibitions do not. If we start everywhere only our domestic set, we will have failures. Yes, we do allow use of imported components, but the fighting and the import substitution program. If our electronics industry today is not able to do some circuits, calculators, etc., then we are forced to take them abroad. tomorrow, next day the situation will be different "- said the deputy minister.

    According to him, "now be closed from the outside world is impossible." "Even the most advanced countries import those or other types of weapons or their components" - said V. Savin.

    "Why we went to the purchase of" drones "in Israel?" We do not have such vehicles that meet modern requirements. And we're not talking about what we are buying them en masse and in their own work in this area stop. But we need to work out methods for their use, prepare personnel, to understand the place on the battlefield, they will take, what are the ways to apply them? And yet: who they should be subordinated to - either in the team, whether in the army, then they must be somewhere separately and attached to the gain. All these issues require working out. So we went out to purchase a limited number of these "drones" - 14 complexes ", - he said.

    At the same time, according to Deputy Minister, the Defense Ministry nor the penny did not reduce the state order for the development of domestic unmanned aircraft.

    Asked about the specific problems faced V. Savin as chief of armaments, he said: "is facing perhaps the effects of the crisis is the end of 1990 - early 2000's, when Gosoboronzakaz was very small, and basically all the money to go on repair of equipment and weapons.

    "And for those 10 years, we will consider in 1998, it turned out that the order grew and grew in parallel financing for repairs, and all the time we were trying to repair what we have. This situation should have been broken. And in general, the first steps for the state defense order in 2009 are made. About fifty planes army buys this year, acquired 38 helicopters and more than 100 tanks, about 300 units of other armored vehicles, "- said the deputy minister.

    According to him, had to reduce maintenance. "Maintaining on old equipment and arms has become impossible. It is not just worn out, it no longer meets the requirements of modern warfare. Because the last large-scale shipments to the armed forces were in the 1991 - 1992 years", - the deputy minister said.

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    Russian - French military cooperation:

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:27 am

    Russian police to buy French armored vehicles - business daily
    RIA Novosti

    16/02/201010:14

    MOSCOW, February 16 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's police force is holding talks with France's Panhard General Defense on the purchase of VBL light armored vehicles, a Russian business daily reported Tuesday.

    Kommersant reported that Russia's Interior Ministry was following the example of the Defense Ministry, which is considering whether to buy a $600-750 million Mistral-class amphibious assault ship from France. Buying arms and military equipment abroad is unusual for Russia, traditionally proud of its own weapons and military equipment.

    While experts say Russia already has domestically-made armored vehicles of the same class, Panhard chief executive Christian Mons said the Russian police are interested in the VBL vehicles' enhanced characteristics, including its maneuverability.

    VBL vehicles cost on average 250,000 euros ($340,000). They are considered outdated by France's armed forces and police and are being replaced with PVP vehicles, Kommersant reported.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100216-rianovosti01.htm


    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:48 pm

    MVD has denied such talks. We don't need outdated light vehicles when we make better.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:46 pm

    I read something similar on another forums, and yeah, it was denied already.

    What would be the point in having such an old and crappy vehicle when Russia makes various types of armored cars?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:42 am

    Any word on whether the Russian factory that was to make the Thales thermal imagers is ready to start licence production?

    I would expect production of the T-90 would be limited till the T-90 upgrade has been completed. I read that would be at the end of this year.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:35 am

    GarryB wrote:Any word on whether the Russian factory that was to make the Thales thermal imagers is ready to start licence production?

    I would expect production of the T-90 would be limited till the T-90 upgrade has been completed. I read that would be at the end of this year.

    They have already started production in Q1 2010.Production is 12 units a month and will ramp up to 30 by the end of the year. Problem is most of those are going to India.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:48 am

    Russia's Defense Ministry will buy armor for trucks and armored vehicles in Germany

    21:17 20/04/2010

    MOSCOW, April 20 - RIA Novosti. Russia's Defense Ministry will buy armor for vehicles and light armored vehicles in Germany, said Tuesday the head of the Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.

    "Defense Ministry in the procurement of new military equipment will be based on the need for security personnel", - said Serdyukov during his meeting with representatives of public organizations.

    "We made KAMAZ and other Russian companies to enter the contacts with foreign firms. They have already started to contact to purchase light armor and use it in automobiles intelligence, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and other vehicles," - he said.

    In particular, the minister said, we are talking about purchases of light armor in one of the Germanic companies.

    Buys Russian auto and armored vehicles in the form in which it is, we do not "- said Serdyukov.

    "But we want the Russian industry improved its production and began to create what we really need, and is dictated by the time" - he stressed.

    http://rian.ru/defense_safety/20100420/224775250.html
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:32 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:Russia's Defense Ministry will buy armor for trucks and armored vehicles in Germany

    21:17 20/04/2010

    MOSCOW, April 20 - RIA Novosti. Russia's Defense Ministry will buy armor for vehicles and light armored vehicles in Germany, said Tuesday the head of the Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov.

    "Defense Ministry in the procurement of new military equipment will be based on the need for security personnel", - said Serdyukov during his meeting with representatives of public organizations.

    "We made KAMAZ and other Russian companies to enter the contacts with foreign firms. They have already started to contact to purchase light armor and use it in automobiles intelligence, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and other vehicles," - he said.

    In particular, the minister said, we are talking about purchases of light armor in one of the Germanic companies.

    Buys Russian auto and armored vehicles in the form in which it is, we do not "- said Serdyukov.

    "But we want the Russian industry improved its production and began to create what we really need, and is dictated by the time" - he stressed.

    http://rian.ru/defense_safety/20100420/224775250.html

    I heard that it was wrong in saying armored vehicles, but just the development capabilities of light armor for vehicles like Tigr. Based on other Russian members from another forums.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:58 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    I heard that it was wrong in saying armored vehicles, but just the development capabilities of light armor for vehicles like Tigr. Based on other Russian members from another forums.

    It to is wrong. What is being done with Germany is a partnership with Kamaz and Daimler to produce new trucks. I also read on military cooperation with France includes land armaments from Panhard. Panhard makes the VBL.

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    sepheronx

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    Russia's Defense Ministry will buy armor for trucks and armored vehicles in Germany

    Post  sepheronx on Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:14 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    I heard that it was wrong in saying armored vehicles, but just the development capabilities of light armor for vehicles like Tigr. Based on other Russian members from another forums.

    It to is wrong. What is being done with Germany is a partnership with Kamaz and Daimler to produce new trucks. I also read on military cooperation with France includes land armaments from Panhard. Panhard makes the VBL.


    So far though, no purchases or nothing, just talk.

    Partnership would be good for Kamaz, as it could open itself up to international market within NATO countries a little bit easier, but I don't know.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Purchases of Foreign Military Equipment

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:08 am

    They have already started production in Q1 2010.Production is 12 units a month and will ramp up to 30 by the end of the year. Problem is most of those are going to India.

    That is excellent news.

    As they come to grips with mass production they will learn and improve.
    The more they make the cheaper they will be and the quicker they can expand production.

    ...they have a lot of sights to make...

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