Russian Liberal Opposition

There are rumblings of a Maidan in Russia to "unseat Putin". Here are some considerations for such events:

1) One person, one vote means that no street mob gets to act as the de facto proxy for all the people not clogging the
streets or squares. It does not matter if 1 million (exaggerated) malcontents prance around with placards denouncing
Putin in English. These clowns do not get to cast an additional 70 to 100 votes.

2) It is obvious that any street mob represents only a part of the views of the electorate and not the full spectrum.
For every anti-Putin useful rent-a-crowd idiot there are dozens who do not share the same opinion and in fact
share an opposing opinion. The propaganda shtick of NATO to recognize the opinions of this tiny rent-a-crowd minority
is to directly violate the democratic rights of the vast majority.

3) NATO propagandists and their narratives are not God's word. Even if they are partly right (and they are not),
democracy implies the choice of the electorate. If voters can be hoodwinked in Russia, they sure as Hell can
be hoodwinked in the precious NATO west. There is nothing genetic that makes westerners immune to hoodwinking. In
fact, it is apparent that NATO citizens are brainwashed 24/7/365 with anti-Russian hate propaganda. NATO is the
last outfit that should be deciding on the legitimacy of Russian votes. By the mere fact that it supports a fringe
opposition, it exposes its anti-Russian bias. If NATO had respect for Russian democracy, it would abide by the
choice of the Russian majority.

4) NATO propaganda notwithstanding, Russian voters have way more access to anti-"regime" viewpoints and information than
NATO citizens. I can vouch for this personally. In Russia, people can read mainstream newspapers and watch TV news that
is openly pro-NATO and anti-Putin. That you can find dissenting voices in the fringe internet media in the west does
not make things equal. The NATO MSM is monochrome pro-NATO and rabidly anti-Russian. So Russian voters are vastly
more informed than western voters. By voting for Putin, they make the right choice. NATO's ambitions do not get to
preempt the choice of Russian voters. The notion that Russian must vote for approved pro-western clowns like Navalny
is grotesque dictatorial abuse that has nothing in common with democracy.

Well, Sobol isn't gonna be able to run now in Moscow Duma because she broke rules in the votes needed for her to be able to even be a candidate. She apparently had votes from dead people, votes from people of other regions who don't have the right to vote in the Moscow Duma elections, and people from other countries (Ukraine). So because of such violations, she was booted from running. Of course a protest ensued by Navalny against the commission but only a hundred or so showed up. Was really pathetic to say the least.

https://antimaidan.ru/news/18490

So protest yesterday had something around 12,000 people showed up. Of course opposition and fake news Twitter claim 22,000. Now we don't know exactly if these are supporters of these dolts overall or if they were bussed in or what (still pathetic turnout for a city of 13M). But anyway, the commission stated they will not adhear to blackmail and will uphold the law because they have proof of the libtards opposition of falsifying signatures which is a criminal offense.

So Navalny is demanding people to continue to protest till their people get to run in elections (even though they were caught red handed and did something illegal, which means is anti democratic if they demand to break the law so they can still partake in elections). Anyway, since majority of the other protests were small this one indicates (since sanctioned) it was all opposition that partook (communists, etc).

Anyway, this may actually force Russian authorities hands to act and actually dismantle Navalny.

miketheterrible wrote:https://antimaidan.ru/news/18490

So protest yesterday had something around 12,000 people showed up. Of course opposition and fake news Twitter claim 22,000.  Now we don't know exactly if these are supporters of these dolts overall or if they were bussed in or what (still pathetic turnout for a city of 13M).  But anyway, the commission stated they will not adhear to blackmail and will uphold the law because they have proof of the libtards opposition of falsifying signatures which is a criminal offense.

So Navalny is demanding people to continue to protest till their people get to run in elections (even though they were caught red handed and did something illegal, which means is anti democratic if they demand to break the law so they can still partake in elections).  Anyway, since majority of the other protests were small this one indicates (since sanctioned) it was all opposition that partook (communists, etc).  

Anyway, this may actually force Russian authorities hands to act and actually dismantle Navalny.

With such pathetic "political action", Navalny is a useful idiot for Russia. He makes the non-systemic opposition a joke or at least makes this feature more apparent.

What needs to happen is for Russian political talk shows and commentators to highlight the fact that street mobs cannot trump the ballot box. If Russia is to be
a democracy, then demonstrators cannot be considered proxies for faceless millions of voters. And demonstrators need to abide by the law. Any random street
theater needs to have prison time applied. That will not make martyrs of the revolution, it will shut down all the kiddies and geriatrics and yuppies who think they
can be rent-a-crowds without any consequence. Russia is making a serious mistake by slapping them on the wrist when they break the law.

higurashihougi wrote:The true problem is the ones funding such mess. Catching the pawn may make them silence for a while, but the masterminds will soon brainwash other people to turn them into other pawns.

It is clear that clowns like Navalny cannot make a name without somebody funding him. The problem is, which kind of social power is benefited from Navalny. Inside and outside Russia, who want to use Navalny for what benefit. And how Russian people deal with these masterminds.

There were tangible results from the listing of many NGOs as foreign agents a few years ago. Many of them closed up shop, which demonstrated that they
were regime-change fronts and not honest NGOs. Now NATO tries to find other ways to fund Navalny and assorted other parasites. This should be treated
as mafia or organized crime activity. If these "heroes of democracy" cannot survive without NATO money, they have no business being in Russia in the first
place. Democracy means support from the Russian people and not hostile foreign powers. A rather obvious fact that many saps fail to grasp.

Apparently he pays a lot of his stuff in Bitcoin.

So there is a place to start looking.

miketheterrible wrote:Apparently he pays a lot of his stuff in Bitcoin.

So there is a place to start looking.

I suspect that BitCoin is a western intelligence agency operation. It allows payments in non-official currencies and pretty much every
internet maggot I am aware of who tries to extort money demands BitCoin. It is basically a dirty money pool with anonimity benefits.

Russia should be "regressive" and ban this crap. Gifts of foreign market instruments should be illegal in Russia.

Yes, that's the major problem, the system allows to dillute the votes by flooding it with candidates.

Democracy+Universal Suffrage is terrible.
Eventually the voters will figure out they could have it all by voting for politicians who promise more Welfare.
Or the politicians will figure out they could just open the border and import voters to put them in power.

This is why the "Privilege" to vote must be restricted, to only those that contribute.

Russia is gonna face this problem eventually.

calripson wrote:First, having studied bitcoin it is clear that it was not developed by some unknown Japanese guy.

Secondly, the strategy of targeting local Moscow elections is an intelligent one. There is a flaw in the Russian electoral process that allows multiple candidates to dilute the vote and to allow an opposition backed candidate to make it to the second round. There are sufficient populations of "liberals" in parts of Moscow and Saint Petersburg to elect those candidates. Once in office, the can grandstand for media attention and cause trouble. As Lenin noted, it's the capital that counts in a revolution. Nobody cares what is happening in the hinterlands.

There are three possible solutions to this problem:

1. Gerrymandering - districts must be drawn to dilute the liberal vote as much as possible
2. Military bases (were the vote is overwhelmingly pro-government) can be created and included in such a way to allow those personnel to vote in liberal districts
3. The current system of dozens of candidates progressing until one first passes 50% must be changed

The fourth option is to create controlled opposition liberal parties but my feeling is the Navalny people are too smart for this

Disallowing candidates is a short term solution that feeds into the propaganda loop of a authoritarian government that does not allow dissent and which creates over time more liberal supporters.

In the U.S. system they have no trouble marginalizing threatening candidates (with the exception of the bombastic Trump) like Ron Paul. In Trump's case they had to act to triangulate him after the fact with the whole Russia-gate nonsense. Trump was unique in his wealth and celebrity status.

Excellent points. The first past the post system is a ridiculous joke. Once again, Russia imports western "ideas" but has no
f*cking clue what they mean. We have this UK style system in Canada and I hate it. It means that candidates with from parties
with low popular support can win if there is a split of the vote among several candidates from the same end of the political
spectrum. I believe in a mixed proportional representation system where legislative seats are assigned by the total vote plus
party lists. This would terminate all fringe elements from winning anything.

AlfaT8 wrote:Democracy+Universal Suffrage is terrible.
Eventually the voters will figure out they could have it all by voting for politicians who promise more Welfare.
Or the politicians will figure out they could just open the border and import voters to put them in power.

That is exactly the plan of the globalist centre left coalition (that stopped being the worker's party decades ago) in Italy.

This is why the "Privilege" to vote must be restricted, to only those that contribute.

Russia is gonna face this problem eventually.

It's not easy to find a good compromise about it, and the introduction of welfare has been a positive fact. The problem is when something given to help the citizen is abused, and when it is used from criminal politicians just to get more votes from people without thinking about the consequences.

In some places welfare and benefits have been used to "dumb down" the population and make them sort of slaves. In addition it is a disincentive to honest work, when unemployment "benefits", including loadging and money are given almost without control and without time limit. In some cases (e.g. in England) people prefer stay at home and do nothing, than work for a minimum wage, because they can achieve the same or a better lifestyle doing nothing.

In addition giving the same welfare to people that are just new to a country and never worked and paid taxes there is wrong and creates a lot of social unrest. In Switzerland a non citizen coming to work has unemployment protection only after obtaining permanent resident status, that means at least 5 years of work and contribution inside the swiss federation.

Unfortunately in many parts of the world we lost the understanding of the importance of personal responsibilities, and don't understand anymore than nothing is given for free, but there is always a price associated, even if we don't see it.

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" (TANSTAAFL).

In addition, the new left equalized really important welfare conquests (paid sick days, a decent number of paid vacations per year, contributions for children, parental leave and employment protection in the first couple of months to help people get on their feet and land a new job,etc) with other kind of "benefits" that are detrimental to the state and the population in the long run.

Helping honest workers and taxpayers with partial tax exemption for each of their children is one thing, and it s of extreme importance.
Maintaining indefinitely people that do not want to work, but can exercise the same political rights is simply wrong.

No citizen should receive money and welfare from the state without working and paying taxes first, unless they have a temporary injury or a permanent condition that prevent them from working or from having a normal life.

Even in that case, there should be a limit on the amount of time they could be receiving money without working before something like a temporary restriction in voting right is applied, to avoid exploiting the system.

(Of course there would be exceptions, e.g retired citizens that worked and paid taxes their all life should maintain voting right for the rest of their life or at least until they are in full possession of their own mental faculties)."

Probably is also wrong that every citizen acquires the right of voting when he or she turns 18 without any other prerogatives. Maybe they should first work smd pay taxes for three years and then pass a citizenship test (similar to those for foreigners who wants to acquire the citizenship by naturalization).

higurashihougi wrote:@Rodion: my opinion is that these problem you address cannot be solved unless Western ruling class still receives enough profits and are still able to keep enough citizens under control so that risk of an uprising is insignificant.

The Western ruling class only care about their ruling position and their ability to extract profit from the society. Which means, hiring immigrant workers and moving "jobs" to other countries with cheaper labor price is acceptable even in the expense of increasing unemployment at the homeland.

We so far only criticized lazy unemployed people as parasites. But we haven't move to this questions: why the "job providers" hire cheap labors in other countries, why "job providers" mistreat and exploit immigrant workers instead of giving these jobs to the local unemployed people ?

And why don't these unemployed people stand up and demand that they would like to work in these job AND receive good payment so that immigrant workers and foreign labour forces will no longer be exploited and mistreated by Western "job providers" ?

What I means is, we usually put the blame on unemployed people, but we haven't ask the question, why the system generates such a phenomenon and why the system managers i.e. the ruling class let that happen ?

And actually, Western powers already carry out a number of, quite barbaric, policies to force welfare receivers to work. We already heard about the one-Euro-job. We already heard about a certain 80 yrs old German lady have to work to earn her welfare. Even the most uncivilized country does not dare to mistreat such an old lady, but these kinds of mistreatment is normal in "civilized" West. No surprise when Western people tends to be mind broken.

Poisoning citizens against each other by class association is one of the main games of western elites. Divide and conquer. Moron
citizens will always fantasize about the rich while they trample on their poor neighbors. This grovelling to the western elites is
utterly grotesque. The elites slide a big one in the rear end of the citizens and the citizens look for the less advantaged to
pass onto the abuse. That is why there are elites in the first place. The proles are too busy hating on their neighbors to organize
and focus on the real problem.

https://www.rt.com/russia/465086-atlantic-council-russia-undesirable/

You can expect many liberals getting arrested in the next few weeks. It seems that patience has ran out.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-29/doctor-says-russian-opposition-leader-may-have-been-poisoned

1) Poisoned but still alive. Anybody who believes that Putin did is a certifiable retard. If the goal was
to kill, then that is very easy to do with a large number of methods. It is clear that this "failed"
poisoning crap is a propaganda ploy staged by the anti-Russian malcontents themselves. Like with Yuschenko
who got chloracne but is still alive and kicking 18 years later.

2) Unsanctioned protests are violations of the law. EU-tards can bleat all they want, but look what happens
to protestors in Spain, France and the USA when they start acting like the Navalny drones. Police brutality
in full force and mass arrests. EU-tard screeching about human rights has zero credibility.

nero wrote:https://www.rt.com/russia/465086-atlantic-council-russia-undesirable/

You can expect many liberals getting arrested in the next few weeks. It seems that patience has ran out.

from the report..

John Richardson called for more American aggression toward Russia and China, saying that when it comes to defending key waterways around the world, the US should become more “muscular,” should “strike first” and force Russia to “respond to our first move.”  

What Richardson (a zionist JEW) ,really is saying..
is that United States navy should hire terrorist /sea Pirates /Ukrainians,on boats ,with modern torpedos ,kamikazi suicide drones , mines that US sell to other countries in the zone.. and target Russian Navy..when it pass over certain zones..  to strike first.. and force Russia to retaliate without having any shred of evidence that Americans did it..  It could also means to provide Ukraine with lethal torpedos to sink Russian warships in Crimea.. to encourage a war between Russia and Ukraine..

This is Because even a pig like RIchardson ,that will not dare in using nukes against
IRAN ,will not dare to openly attack Russia anywhere in the world in any way , knowing
the response will be much more worse for them... And later they will have no way to defend
their actions and explains the loss of hundreds of American sailors , when Russia strike back.

The point of all this Jewish Zionist Scum  , their  provocations on Russia..
Is to Humiliate Russia ... but also provoke them into a war with a third party
nation ,if possible that damage relations with Europe , and or slowdown Russia economy.
Something like Russia full scale invasion on Ukraine ,will be what US and UK have hoped to happen , but Russia didn't fall for the bait..

So whether is US provocations on Russia through Ukraine ,in azov sea...
Or US provocations in Syria ,through Alqaeda and their Suicide drones ..
the objective is the same ,to hit Russia hard , humiliate them..let them know in private
they did it.. but with a Russia with no way to proof , Americans or british did it in Public.
This is because for NATO do anything .. it needs to have a clear strategy ,that could be
achieved and that is worth of it.  Fighting a war ,directly with Russia ,that they know they can't win ,is NOT an objective .. So this is why US ,neither Britain will ever directly declare war on Russia..   In my opinion.. it will be the other way.. US and UK will continue provocations ,and one day Russia patience will be over ,and they will strike back hard at them ,with thousands of americans killed..  Something that already happened in Eastern Ghoutta.. in Syria , if we are to believe in Chinese military newspapers..

and thats the major reason for Trump , positive behavior with Putin ,to calm down the Tensions between Russia and US military.

So going back to the Pig Richardson , He will never do an aggression on Russia ,that
he understand will end them ,the ones humiliated.. when Russia respond.. This is why
zionist PIGS like Richardson will have to hide behind terrorist ,behind pirates ,behind Ukrainians or even Georgians or anyone from the baltics,  to attack by proxy , Russia  with
their assistance.

So if the US military increase the provocations , i do see ,more advanced lethal weapons provided to third party forces  used against Russia , against their bases ,planes or warships..  lethal weapons like Torpedos , Biological warfare , chemical weapons , advanced mines..  I also do see ,much more stronger and violent protest from the Liberals crap , (zionist JEWS) who live in Russia. and do see , ethnic provocations between Muslims and Christians.. is the Empire what is at risk.. and they will try any trick to try to get European baltics or Turkey into a major war with Russia. and so provoke a split in relations...  completely breaking relations between Europe and Russia is fundamentally important in order to defeat Russia ,by isolating its economy.  China could replace one day Europe energy business ,but that will take a couple of decades for Russia to completely end their
dependence on Europe energy business.

higurashihougi wrote:The true problem is the ones funding such mess. Catching the pawn may make them silence for a while, but the masterminds will soon brainwash other people to turn them into other pawns.

It is clear that clowns like Navalny cannot make a name without somebody funding him. The problem is, which kind of social power is benefited from Navalny. Inside and outside Russia, who want to use Navalny for what benefit. And how Russian people deal with these masterminds.

I think the character of the pro-Western liberal movement in poorer non-Western countries that aren't part of the club, can pretty much be summed up by the following paragraphs, out of Trotsky's 'History of the Russian Revolution' https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/ch02.htm
Explains well the character of Yeltsin's Russia too, as well as those of today's regimes in Eastern Europe and many others besides:

India participated in the war both essentially and formally as a colony of England. The participation of China, though in a formal sense “voluntary,” was in reality the interference of a slave in the fight of his masters. The participation of Russia falls somewhere halfway between the participation of France and that of China. Russia paid in this way for her right to be an ally of advanced countries, to import capital and pay interest on it – that is, essentially, for her right to be a privileged colony of her allies – but at the same time for her right to oppress and rob Turkey, Persia, Galicia, and in general the countries weaker and more backward than herself. The twofold imperialism of the Russian bourgeoisie had basically the character of an agency for other mightier world powers.

The Chinese compradors are the classic type of the national bourgeoisie, a kind of mediating agency between foreign finance capital and the economy of their own country. In the world hierarchy of the powers, Russia occupied before the war a considerably higher position than China. What position she would have occupied after the war, if there had been no revolution, is a different question. But the Russian autocracy on the one hand, the Russian bourgeoisie on the other, contained features of compradorism, ever more and more clearly expressed. They lived and nourished themselves upon their connections with foreign imperialism, served it, and without their support could not have survived. To be sure, they did not survive in the long run even with its support. The semi-comprador Russian bourgeoisie had world-imperialistic interests in the same sense in which an agent working on percentages lives by the interests of his employer.

...

In the matter of military supplies and finances, Russia at war suddenly finds herself in slavish dependence upon her allies. This is merely a military expression of her general dependence upon advanced capitalist countries, but help from the Allies does not save the situation. The lack of munitions, the small number of factories for their production, the sparseness of railroad lines for their transportation, soon translated the backwardness of Russia into the familiar language of defeat – which served to remind the Russian national liberals that their ancestors had not accomplished the bourgeois revolution and that the descendants, therefore, owed a debt to history.

Indeed I noticed among the liberals in Russia, that for all their blindness about world affairs, and for all their lip-service to liberal or 'Western' or 'European' values - the norm is that they hold very much backward views in private. It's no surprise that someone like Navalny inserts nationalistic and chauvinistic sentiment towards people from the Caucasus and Central Asia in some of his rhetoric. It's surely the expected behaviour for a group of people, who crave the status of borgouise equals (as opposed to poor cousin paupers from a backward homophobic country) in Paris, Berlin, among the historic architecture of Vienna or the beaches of Naples - striking up friendships and contacts among their middle class counterparts from the rich EU states.
They see themselves as of a different mold than the masses of Russians, more educated, more sophisticated, worldly; and of course with knowledge of the prized English language - as Russia's representitives to the outside world and vice-versa. So along with the division of class, the xenophobic divisions according to ethnicity, religion, etc... go hand in hand for many of them.

Dox the doxers!

The liberast 5th column in Russia is attempting to pull the same trick as during the Maidan in Ukraine. They are doxing the police
and their families. But there is a backlash and one of the prime doxers has been doxed himself. These vermin even attack
those in the anti-Putin camp who are more sane and point out that doxing is hardly making the "anti-regime activists" popular.