sepheronx wrote:The other option as well besides private loaners or credit unions, is China as they are swimming in liquidity, and I do believe the Russians have access to Chinese banks but this wont solve the long standing issue.
Reliance only on China will not solve the issue.
Russia should diversify successfully, not simply divert dependency from one partner onto another.
Therefore some reliance on the West is actually usefull. What's not useful is when they're the only ones Russia can rely upon as interconnection with them has outstripped the pace of integration with everyone else
As well, your idea of integrating more with western systems in military is both sad to hear even from you and as well, sickening. All it would have amounted to is more Russian reliance on them as well as more pressure against them. Cable laying ships or such technology isnt new nor hard.
It is not hard at all, nor is it particularly sensitive technology. So when there is an opportunity to split the costs evenly with a partner and share expertise in order to come up with a vessel that can be used by the navies of both countries, and perhaps jointly-produced - then why not?
There was always some kind of comm equipment JV too. That would probably have been French involvement in building new comms for Russian military use. Perhaps too sensitive to leave to them.
Cheap sub and helicopters from Italy?
The sub is designated the S-1000. It's a farily cheap diesel-electric sub, with apparently mostly Italian components - and was designated not for service in either navy, but as a budget option for 3rd countries. Could have been a good business opportunity and of course extra hands-on experience is always welcome.
And the maritime patrol aircraft is not a helicopter, think A-40 or A-42 instead. In fact if I were to hazard a guess, then it would be exactly a revival of the A-42 project they were talking about; they said that it would be a Russian aircraft but fitted with Italian equipment.
Again, this would be a product for the export market.
Finally there was some talk of the Italians modernizing the Be-200 too. If that project went ahead, it would have opened the doors for the Be-200 to be more widely exported to Europe - this is a class of aircraft that's quite clearly in demand in Europe and has been bought by a few countries already. A Euro modernization would make it more acceptable for purchase.
That would have taken more money away from local developers much like KRET is now having to save your sorry asses in avionivs because you guys simply imported rather than use them, your own developers. I am sorry, but none of those projects you mentioned would have amounted for much if anything and oil and gas in Russia is being explored anyway at your own expenses and other investors. Instead of relying on someone else to do things for you, maybe it is time you guys started doing it yourselves like once before. Much may have been lost, but you will never gain it by simply hoping someone else would have done it for you.
The problem is that if you do everything yourself, you take all the risk and investment upon yourself too.
It makes more sense to find a partner and split the risks with them. You can learn something from them too.
It's the same principle as with the many military-industrial JVs with India, China, South Korea, etc... yet you wouldn't say that those are amounting to nothing or a mistake, would you?
Same with the oil/gas. Russia has plenty of JVs already; operating not only with European and US majors, but Vietnamese, Venezuelan, Chinese, Turkish and so on. What's wrong with that?
Mind telling me as well which civil projects in high tech has been cancelled? Most important one in your country, the rusnano project with the dutch in making lithography tech, is still ongoing. All other JV are simply ways for someone else to bring the tech to you, and not impossible to do yourselves. Recent example is Rusnano and the french company making MRAM in Russia. People cried the end was nigh when the US company denied them the tech to manufacture the RAM due to sanctions. Rusnano simply purchased the same equipment from China.
That's great but there is a lot of nuance and details in any such deals. It might well be possible to get the tech from China instead, but it might also not match the specifications exactly or be produced to the same quality.
You gave an example - I'm sure there are plenty more too, for every one we might hear about there might be others that we don't.