Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Share
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18648
    Points : 19204
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:17 am

    It is just a sub machine gun... it can take box mags (32 rounds) or helical mags (64 rounds).

    What I don't like about it is the bar above the barrel... you pull it back to cock the weapon... puts your fingers close to the muzzle to ready the weapon... very ambidextrous, but I don't think it is very clever.

    Personally I would prefer the Klin/Kedr, or Kashtan for size, or the SR-2 for firepower (9x21mm).

    Would like to see a definitive PP-19-01 Vityaz in 9x21mm as well...
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 470
    Points : 502
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:48 am

    It would realy be nice if they made a steel version built in a similar way to the PPS-43 that fired the 9x21mm rould as a cheap but effective close range bullet hose type weapon for internal troops and the increased weigh would help with recoil.

    Anyway as far as assault rifles go won't the front part of a plastic reciever get too hot in combat? I have seen AKs getting very hot after only a few magazines.

    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18648
    Points : 19204
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:57 am

    Most soldiers only carry about 300 rounds into combat with them as their official load of ammo... that equates to about 10 full magazines which shouldn't be enough to cause cook offs or other problems.

    More importantly few soldiers will burn off ten mags all that fast... short bursts is more likely over a period of time rather than empty the rifle as fast as poss.

    The vast majority of shooting should be single shots aimed at targets or short bursts at enemy positions to keep their heads down.

    If you start spraying the area any sensible enemy will just take cover and wait for you to either run out of ammo or need to reload and then get you.... they wont have to guess where you are firing from.

    Modern resin polymers are no more flammable than wood... the inside of the wooden stock on my FN FAL has a sheet metal like tin foil on it to resist heat.

    There is no need for guns to be heavy... for high rate of fire weapons like the PKM the ammo is often heavier than the weapon carried... about 7kgs for the weapon and about 7kgs for every 200 round belt.... so three or four belts weighs rather more than the weapon that fires them.

    In terms of heating very hot plastic parts you can't touch is no better nor any worse than very hot metal parts that burn you when you touch them.

    More importantly in arctic areas metal parts will burn exposed skin while plastic parts become very brittle. Of course resin parts don't burn you and don't become brittle and are better than either...

    avatar
    Cheetah

    Posts : 50
    Points : 54
    Join date : 2016-11-26
    Location : Australia

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Cheetah on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:52 pm

    I recall a great many Youtube videos of trigger happy Americans testing the endurance of various guns under consecutive fire. Naturally, they'd most likely be using some AK rip-off, or modified civilian model, so take the results with a grain of salt.

    In one particular instance, both the AR and the AK that were being tested took ~850-950 rounds before deforming and becoming useless. In the case of the AR, the hand-guard material caught fire and the gas tube deformed and separated, making the gun unusable. In the case of the AK, a similar story. At the 800 round mark, the hand-guard caught fire, however, unlike the AR, it failed due to a deformation of the barrel, which lead to an improper seal for the gas piston. I recall the uploader attempted to bend the barrel back into place and got about a dozen more shots off. Interestingly, the AK never cooked off.

    The point being, in a worse case scenario, with fully automatic fire and no breaks, a modern, civilian-accessible assault rifle can get off about 850 rounds before some kind of serious failure.

    In short, firing a small arm at fully auto for a long time is a lot like rev-ing your car in the red zone for a long time. In both cases the mechanism will operate to some degree, but ultimately you are spelling a short life expectancy for a marginal increase in efficiency / power.

    EDIT:
    I ought to add that the uploader was dressed in thick material, with a welding helmet and welding gloves, and still managed to comment on the heat emanating from the gun.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18648
    Points : 19204
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:41 am

    Should be added that if you do have thousands of zombies coming at you and you have thousands of rounds already loaded into magazines ready to fire then you could probably maintain a rather higher rate of fire simply by having a barrel of cold water handy to dip your rifle into every 30 rounds or so to help deal with the heat.

    Firing full auto continuously is also rather wasteful... single shots to the head you could probably fire several thousand rounds before you start getting heating problems simply because you are already reducing the heat being applied by the ammo to the gun and also adding more time for the heat to be released into the air.

    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 470
    Points : 502
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:20 am

    GarryB wrote:Should be added that if you do have thousands of zombies coming at you and you have thousands of rounds already loaded into magazines ready to fire then you could probably maintain a rather higher rate of fire simply by having a barrel of cold water handy to dip your rifle into every 30 rounds or so to help deal with the heat.

    Firing full auto continuously is also rather wasteful... single shots to the head you could probably fire several thousand rounds before you start getting heating problems simply because you are already reducing the heat being applied by the ammo to the gun and also adding more time for the heat to be released into the air.


    Thousands of brainwashed ukropian traitors coming at you? there is somthing for that its called a tctical nuclear device or that bigh thermobaric bomb that Russian has if on your own soil.

    Also you could just be in a helicopter where thay cant get you becaus western propaganda has eroded their brains too mutch for them to use a gun.

    But as far as conventional weapons go MosinNagant<PPSH-41<ZSU-23-4 Shilka volume and explosions is best.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5974
    Points : 6001
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Militarov on Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:Most soldiers only carry about 300 rounds into combat with them as their official load of ammo... that equates to about 10 full magazines which shouldn't be enough to cause cook offs or other problems.

    More importantly few soldiers will burn off ten mags all that fast... short bursts is more likely over a period of time rather than empty the rifle as fast as poss.

    The vast majority of shooting should be single shots aimed at targets or short bursts at enemy positions to keep their heads down.

    If you start spraying the area any sensible enemy will just take cover and wait for you to either run out of ammo or need to reload and then get you.... they wont have to guess where you are firing from.

    Modern resin polymers are no more flammable than wood... the inside of the wooden stock on my FN FAL has a sheet metal like tin foil on it to resist heat.

    There is no need for guns to be heavy... for high rate of fire weapons like the PKM the ammo is often heavier than the weapon carried... about 7kgs for the weapon and about 7kgs for every 200 round belt.... so three or four belts weighs rather more than the weapon that fires them.

    In terms of heating very hot plastic parts you can't touch is no better nor any worse than very hot metal parts that burn you when you touch them.

    More importantly in arctic areas metal parts will burn exposed skin while plastic parts become very brittle. Of course resin parts don't burn you and don't become brittle and are better than either...


    Here you carry 150 rounds for your rifle as part of combat package as they call it. 4 magazines in your vest and 1 in your rifle.

    Cyrus the great

    Posts : 278
    Points : 286
    Join date : 2015-06-12

    It would be great if Kalashnikov

    Post  Cyrus the great on Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:42 am


    It would be great if Kalashnikov created an assault rifle variant of their new SVK rifle; it uses the same short-stroke piston of the AK-400, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure what the differences are between a reverse short-stroke piston and a conventional short-stroke piston, but the SVK seems to tick all the boxes. It has an easily accessible magwell, it's ergonomic and can easily be modified into an assault rifle with the further inclusion of certain features like an ambidextrous charging handle.

    Cyrus the great

    Posts : 278
    Points : 286
    Join date : 2015-06-12

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Cyrus the great on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:28 am

    Information on the Svch rifle is scant but I presume that it has an adjustable gas block like a lot of recent Russian firearms. Am I wrong to think that it could serve as an assault rifle with some minor changes like a reciprocating charging handle? Russia might not adopt it as an assault rifle but it would probably sell pretty well in international markets.
    avatar
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3982
    Points : 3999
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:44 pm

    Cyrus the great wrote:Information on the Svch rifle is scant but I presume that it has an adjustable gas block like a lot of recent Russian firearms. Am I wrong to think that it could serve as an assault rifle with some minor changes like a reciprocating charging handle? Russia might not adopt it as an assault rifle but it would probably sell pretty well in international markets.


    It is based on the Dragunov MA so yes it is going to be presented as an assault rifle.

    Cyrus the great

    Posts : 278
    Points : 286
    Join date : 2015-06-12

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Cyrus the great on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:55 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:Information on the Svch rifle is scant but I presume that it has an adjustable gas block like a lot of recent Russian firearms. Am I wrong to think that it could serve as an assault rifle with some minor changes like a reciprocating charging handle? Russia might not adopt it as an assault rifle but it would probably sell pretty well in international markets.


    It is based on the Dragunov MA so yes it is going to be presented as an assault rifle.

    Excellent! Thanks KoTeMoRe. russia

    Questions:

    What is a reverse short-stroke? And what differentiates it from a regular short-stroke?

    I noticed that the early AK-12 had an ambidextrous charging handle but this feature was removed in subsequent variants. Do you know why they removed this feature?

    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 7253
    Points : 7347
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:47 pm


    National Guard, pay attention to guy on the right with MG:
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18648
    Points : 19204
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:03 am

    Nice.... a PKP with a backpack feed.

    The Russians went from WWII with a drum feed DP-28 or DPM, to the RP46 which could use either drum or belt feed, but then they changed to the RPD in a belt feed and reduced size round, then to the same round in an enlarged box magazine in the RPK, then finally the smaller calibre higher velocity 5.45mm round in the RPK74 in 45 round mags.

    Many units seem to have replaced the RPK-74 with the PKP version of the PKM... it will be interesting if weapons like the RP-16 with its 95 round drum can make it into units or if the PKP with its more powerful ammo are used instead. A belt fed 5.45mm is more complicated and heavy while not adding the firepower of the 7.62 x 54mm.

    Perhaps the new belt fed gun in 6x49mm might be the best of both worlds... or perhaps a version of the RP16 in 6x49mm....
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18648
    Points : 19204
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:06 am

    Interesting that the guy to the left of the guy in front also has a PKP but has a normal mag...

    Perhaps the guy with the normal mag represents the replacement for the RPK-74 in being more mobile, while the guy with the back pack feed system is the PKM replacement for sustained fire power?

    I personally would like to see the RP-16 make it in there...
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 470
    Points : 502
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:41 am

    Well the man on the right that has the backpack feed has what apears to be a night sight usualy seen on heavy and tripod mounted MGs so this seems to support Garrys theory that the backpack is meant for fire support.



    avatar
    Cyberspec

    Posts : 2348
    Points : 2505
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:24 am

    GarryB wrote:Nice.... a PKP with a backpack feed.

    So it's been accepted for service?

    ---

    Here's another novelty...Pecheneg-SP....comes with a silencer





    More here (in Russian)
    Arrow http://zonwar.ru/pulemet/Pesheneg-SP.html

    .
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 18648
    Points : 19204
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:11 am

    Or it could just be that that guy got a hold of one and is allowed to use it for testing purposes...

    Those new pictures of the new PKP is interesting... they seem to have moved the bipod back to the gas tube.... in fact looking at the site you got those photos from these images look more like the older PKM when you look at the photos of the PKP.

    These images look larger and heavier while the PKP photos make it look more like a light machine gun.

    For ages the Americans have claimed the bipod on the muzzle improves accuracy, but of course means shooting at moving targets or changing targets is not so easy.

    And the obvious problem that if you have a MG with removable barrels if you carry a spare barrel you also carry a spare bipod whereas the bipod on the gas cylinder on the PKM meant one bipod with the gun and lighter spare barrels...

    To be honest these new photos seem to suggest they have gone back to a removable barrel with a mid mounted bipod.

    BTW the folding buttstock is interesting... especially in the backpack feed arrangement for a compact but full power MG fire power package...
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2763
    Points : 2745
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:15 pm

    https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 470
    Points : 502
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:25 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.

    So the AEK-971/A-545 and AK-12 will be adopted.

    Exelent news no plastic guns! Yet another day free of polymer and carbon fiber and all of the asociated garbage.

    A great victory has been won metal is once more victorious.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2458
    Points : 2452
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:17 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.

    What's wrong with the Ak-74 that they need a replacement ?

    I just saw details for those new rifles and they are very similar, what makes them want both if they share the same parameters ? Are the rifles so different that they need both ?
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 470
    Points : 502
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:47 pm

    Isos wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:https://amp.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2981637&2981637&2981637=&__twitter_impression=true

    As Kote said, they will be adopting both.

    Turns out, he was right. AK-12 has been accepted for regular troops and AEK-971 for special forces.

    What's wrong with the Ak-74 that they need a replacement ?

    I just saw details for those new rifles and they are very similar, what makes them want both if they share the same parameters ? Are the rifles so different that they need both ?

    The AK-74M provides insatisfactory levels of tacticality and thus needs a replacement.

    And the AEK has a counterbalance recoil system aswell as a higher fire rate or 900 mounds per minute two very clear advantages.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2763
    Points : 2745
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:51 pm

    Ak-74M was rather fine, especially it has a lot of upgrade options to it like the tt1000 rail and the other attachments. But AK-12 offers all that pre built into the system, more ergonomic (apparently) and has a lot better recoil management system to it. It's based off of the AK-400 apparently.
    avatar
    Isos

    Posts : 2458
    Points : 2452
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:46 pm

    And the AEK has a counterbalance recoil system aswell as a higher fire rate or 900 mounds per minute two very clear advantages.

    Do you really see the difference when you have only 30 rounds ready to fire ? It's not an anti air machine gun. Most of time they will fire 1, 2 or 3 rounds. After that every weapon become unprecise and I don't think soldiers fires full auto. I m not really interested in small arms, that's why I ask. I know nothing about that.

    If the soldiers are trained well they don't need better arms specially if it is almost the same like the previous one.
    avatar
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 470
    Points : 502
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:50 pm

    Isos wrote:
    And the AEK has a counterbalance recoil system aswell as a higher fire rate or 900 mounds per minute two very clear advantages.

    Do you really see the difference when you have only 30 rounds ready to fire ? It's not an anti air machine gun. Most of time they will fire 1, 2 or 3 rounds. After that every weapon become unprecise and I don't think soldiers fires full auto. I m not really interested in small arms, that's why I ask. I know nothing about that.

    If the soldiers are trained well they don't need better arms specially if it is almost the same like the previous one.

    Actualy 900 rounds per minute is more controllable because the higher rate of fire gives it smoother less jackhammer like recoil and it has a counterbalance system.
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 3048
    Points : 3080
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  franco on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:07 pm

    The newest RPK-16 machine gun goes to the troops

    The concern Kalashnikov and the Defense Ministry signed a contract for the supply of the newest RPK-16 machine guns, the company's general director Alexei Krivoruchko said.

    "There are", - said Krivoruchko, answering the question about the conclusion of the contract, TASS reports.

    In March 2017 it was reported that the serial production of the RPK-16 machine guns is planned for 2018.

    The light machine gun Kalashnikov RPK-16 caliber 5.45 mm was created on the basis of the experience of modern armed conflicts. He was presented at the arms exhibition "Army-2016". Thanks to the possibility of replacing the barrel, the weapon can be used both as a manual machine gun and as an assault rifle.

    Specially for the machine gun developed a new disk store of increased capacity - 96 rounds. It can also be used for Kalashnikov assault rifles.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Assault Rifles & Machine Guns Thread: #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:56 am