Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon May 04, 2015 11:56 pm

    medo wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Vann... My gosh man... 

    Tanks are NOT about how they look, at ALL. It is completely un-relevant to how will they perform in battle. 

    "Fluidity in design" means nothing.

    THe turret also looks really fragile.. is not only looks..  how is the T-14 turret going to survive
    a direct hit of a sabot round with such small turret with holes and spaces? it looks like the
    turret was not made to survive a tank direct hit..  anyway enough of rant.. just a little disappointed with the design decisions of the tank.

    Actually the turret looks very good, it will be up-armored with a full suite of either applique armour or downright ERA array. This is what makes me like this tank, the design is one of prospective combat, drop in turret with several levels of up-armouring. Nevermind this tank is going to evolve, so far it is being a real technology show with Russia mustering they're not behind, at all when it comes to fielding up to date technologies.

    The armata tank turret looks good ,yes.. even stealthy ..but also looks very fragile too ,because is tiny ,have holes and spaces and seems like sheet armor covers the turret ,and this is my major complain.. weak turret .

    the  body looks ok but with very bad ergonomics.. ie.. the extended grill , dangerous for people near when tank in motion.  So if i had to choose one..ill prefer they make a more stronger turret.. like western latest tanks.

    Armata turret doesn't have crew inside. It have armor around gun, ammunition and vital parts, but why to place armor to protect empty space and increase weight, where it is not needed? Those tinner plates just make a shape of turret and maybe help to reduce thermal and radar picture, but protect nothing.

    You will need extra armour (roughly 2 more tons) to ensure the frontal arc of the turret isn't butter to a cutter. I agree that for most logical threats (bar Tank on tank engagements) the T-14 has it all, APS, radar etc, but when it will come down to taking out another tank, the goal will be to be able to take a hit and survive.

    So there will be a heavier turret, that's for sure.

    Why? Outside turret is only the gun and it have armor around. All other vital components are under gun inside vehicle and protected by vehicles armor. On the sides of the gun is nothing, empty space, because there is no crew in turret. The frontal size of turret against other tanks is very small, only gun. On the sides of the gun are just tin plates and if enemy tank hit those side plates, nothing will happened, because there is nothing behind to be destroyed. This is the point to have a crewless turret.

    Once again, light armour on turret frontal arc isn't an optimum, since the tank needs to be able to operate at all costs. Crewless turret only takes out the human cost of the penetration, but if your turret gets penetrated at each engagement, leading to loss of operational capability (IE you can't fight back), the result is the same as you losing the crew to a penetration. So yes, I fully expect the turret to be able to withstand a hit and keep firing.

    Plus the turret looks well armoured when you take into account the absence of crew. Those top down shots, wow, SUPER Sexy.


    Last edited by KoTeMoRe on Mon May 04, 2015 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5251
    Points : 5454
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on Mon May 04, 2015 11:58 pm

    For those who haven't noticed like me. The T-15 has same smoke grenade launchers at its back which we believed to be APU, it is not.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 GNshu
    Viktor
    Viktor

    Posts : 5766
    Points : 6401
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 39
    Location : Croatia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Viktor on Tue May 05, 2015 12:08 am

    I like T-14 brutal and formidable look. It reminds me of KV-1 Very Happy thumbsup
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 5714
    Points : 5843
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  kvs on Tue May 05, 2015 12:38 am

    For an unmanned turret, it is actually rather large. Perhaps this was due to aesthetic choices. But if form follows function then
    what is taking up the space?
    avatar
    Orocairion

    Posts : 11
    Points : 13
    Join date : 2015-04-22

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Orocairion on Tue May 05, 2015 12:42 am

    Viktor wrote:I like T-14 brutal and formidable look. It reminds me of KV-1 Very Happy thumbsup

    It actually has a T-34-85 flair to it, particularly from the front.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 WiCZX

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 M02015042400001
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5251
    Points : 5454
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on Tue May 05, 2015 12:44 am

    kvs wrote:For an unmanned turret, it is actually rather large.   Perhaps this was due to aesthetic choices.   But if form follows function then
    what is taking up the space?  

    Actually it is not that big just room for one person, the rest is electronics, autoloader, AESA radars, ammunition bustle and all that wiring and extra electronics coming from the periscopic sight. It looks larger than it is.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 IMG_722762146
    Viktor
    Viktor

    Posts : 5766
    Points : 6401
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 39
    Location : Croatia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Viktor on Tue May 05, 2015 12:51 am

    And it seems a two man crew - as promised Very Happy
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 05, 2015 12:56 am

    kvs wrote:For an unmanned turret, it is actually rather large.   Perhaps this was due to aesthetic choices.   But if form follows function then
    what is taking up the space?  

    Probably Full length shell arrangement with telescopic rammer as autoloader.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 ASM_-_Heavy_Chassis

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Tumblr_nkyw64zcAl1tm0v69o1_500

    Don't start screaming it is only a guess and only for illustrative purposes.

    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 05, 2015 1:01 am

    TheArmenian wrote:Do you guys see a coaxial machine gun on the T-14?

    Small cutaway on the right side of the turret.
    Viktor
    Viktor

    Posts : 5766
    Points : 6401
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 39
    Location : Croatia

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Viktor on Tue May 05, 2015 1:04 am

    Rollling down the streeat thumbsup

    https://youtu.be/JVSbm7p6xjI
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 05, 2015 1:09 am

    Viktor wrote:Rollling down the streeat  thumbsup

    https://youtu.be/JVSbm7p6xjI

    Nothing says better "we'll whoop yer a**" than the whole motorcade there.
    Siempre_Leal
    Siempre_Leal

    Posts : 174
    Points : 189
    Join date : 2015-05-04

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Siempre_Leal on Tue May 05, 2015 1:31 am

    Awesome pics & videos, Although I expected the Armata MBT to be abit different.
    avatar
    Guest
    Guest

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Guest on Tue May 05, 2015 1:36 am

    The T-14 looks great. As was mentioned earlier, I love the T-34ish flair to it and it looks like a very formidable machine as do all the rest of the Armata based vehicles.

    Is the T-15 built on a long wheelbase version of the chassis or is it just a illusion?
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5251
    Points : 5454
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on Tue May 05, 2015 2:05 am

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 14307756873830
    This chart describes two ERA tiles, the first is exploding based on the magnetic field from incoming projectiles, the 2nd ERA tile destroys the remains of the projectile/ATGM/RPG.

    The second picutre shows protection with a magnetifield generator that lifts a couple of magnetic field up to 100m altitude which fool HEAT charges from cluster bombs that have magnetic fuze and they detonate at safe distance.

    The aerosol is multibandwidth that camoflauges from top attack weapons at 140° angle and clouds itself beneath. Aerosol blocks IR and Radar spectrum.
    higurashihougi
    higurashihougi

    Posts : 2268
    Points : 2359
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue May 05, 2015 4:56 am

    Anybody knows why people put this block in a place not really in-line with the surrounding ones

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 11164780_464779993698575_2203331734598168288_n
    alexZam
    alexZam

    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  alexZam on Tue May 05, 2015 5:20 am

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 3069781_6f662c4363543fcc369c75221fc5d04d
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 T14
    alexZam
    alexZam

    Posts : 343
    Points : 399
    Join date : 2015-04-23
    Location : SoCal

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  alexZam on Tue May 05, 2015 5:21 am

    higurashihougi wrote:Anybody knows why people put this block in a place not really in-line with the surrounding ones

    Just a theory: it's mounted on hinges, so it can be "flipped down" for access for something underneath. Dunno.
    BKP
    BKP

    Posts : 472
    Points : 481
    Join date : 2015-05-02

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  BKP on Tue May 05, 2015 5:34 am

    Damn it, I'm late to the unveiling! Well, I agree with Ivan; all the new armor looks pretty damn impressive to me. Thanks for all the pics and videos guys!

    Can't say I agree with some that the T-14 turret looks "too big." Maybe some were beguiled by that 3D mock-up that circulated for so long. But, you had to suspect the turret couldn't look exactly like that; it was flat as a pancake. There was no way all the necessary mechanical and electronic stuff was going to fit inside something like that.

    I like the T-14 hull. Pretty simple and boxy, more or less. That part reminds me of the way a glock looks; it's no more or less than it needs to be. The turret shape is more of a puzzle. I too am intrigued by its asymmetric shape. Looks good though, I think, and pretty bad ass!

    I agree, too, that the T-15 IFV is the most eye-catching and futuristic-looking of all the vehicles. In that one video, the group of them look like a menacing herd of giant alien beetles trundling up the street.

    It's going to be interesting to see which are the right guesses about what functions various gaps and openings in the T-14 turret fulfill.

    I suppose the only thing that I'm really not liking about what we've seen is the fact that none of these vehicles will be serial produced in appreciable quantity for quite some time yet. They'll be "testing" and then "field testing" for what seems an eternity. I'm pretty sure we're talking 4-5 years to go yet. *SIGH*

    If anyone is disappointed with anything they're seeing now, who knows, the actual finished product may end up quite different when all is said and done. So cheer up, emo kid! cheers
    KoTeMoRe
    KoTeMoRe

    Posts : 3990
    Points : 4007
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue May 05, 2015 5:38 am

    BKP wrote:Damn it, I'm late to the unveiling! Well, I agree with Ivan; all the new armor looks pretty damn impressive to me. Thanks for all the pics and videos guys!

    Can't say I agree with some that the t-14 turret looks "too big." Maybe some were beguiled by that 3D mock-up that circulated for so long. But, you had to suspect the turret couldn't look exactly like that; it was flat as a pancake. There was no way all the necessary mechanical and electronic stuff was going to fit inside something like that.

    I like the t-14 hull. Pretty simple and boxy, more or less. That part reminds me of the way a glock looks; it's no more or less than it needs to be. The turret shape is more of a puzzle. I too am intrigued by its asymmetric shape. Looks good though, I think, and pretty bad ass!

    I agree, too, that the T-15 IFV is the most eye-catching and futuristic-looking of all the vehicles. In that one video, the group of them look like a menacing herd of giant alien beetles trundling up the street.

    It's going to be interesting to see which are the right guesses about what functions various gaps and openings in the T-14 turret fulfill.

    I suppose the only thing that I'm really not liking about what we've seen is the fact that none of these vehicles will be serial produced in appreciable quantity for quite some time yet. They'll be "testing" and then "field testing" for what seems an eternity. I'm pretty sure we're talking 4-5 years to go yet. *SIGH*

    If anyone is disappointed with anything they're seeing now, who knows, the actual finished product may end up quite different when all is said and done. So cheer up, emo kid! cheers

    Actually I'm impressed, because it looks really like the Russian MIC has finally delivered something ground breaking. Yes the concept had been floating both in East and West about a modular platform and unmanned turret, but this is the first time we see one fielded. So if it really is a workable doctrine, expect upgunning and uparmmouring from the usual suspects. At some point we'll see 100 ton NATO behemoths.
    BKP
    BKP

    Posts : 472
    Points : 481
    Join date : 2015-05-02

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  BKP on Tue May 05, 2015 5:47 am

    ^ Agreed, KoTeMoRe. This "modularity" concept really strikes me as being the way forward, and they seem to have taken it further than anyone yet.
    collegeboy16
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1145
    Points : 1146
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 23
    Location : Roanapur

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  collegeboy16 on Tue May 05, 2015 6:04 am

    turret protection is fine as is - you can pierce it with sabots all day but all you will get at most is a firepower kill when you hit the gun itself, its mounting, or shot out both optics. and all three targets are highly unlikely to be hit in a fight, esp. in a tank duel with distance bet. a km or two or so.

    avatar
    Swede55

    Posts : 17
    Points : 22
    Join date : 2014-08-28

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Swede55 on Tue May 05, 2015 6:12 am

    Yes, I think that the T-14 turret is just a thin armoured shell and if it is seriously hit they will just put the vehicle into reverse, drive to the rear and fix it.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7091
    Points : 7359
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 30
    Location : Canada

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 05, 2015 6:14 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    BKP wrote:Damn it, I'm late to the unveiling! Well, I agree with Ivan; all the new armor looks pretty damn impressive to me. Thanks for all the pics and videos guys!

    Can't say I agree with some that the t-14 turret looks "too big." Maybe some were beguiled by that 3D mock-up that circulated for so long. But, you had to suspect the turret couldn't look exactly like that; it was flat as a pancake. There was no way all the necessary mechanical and electronic stuff was going to fit inside something like that.

    I like the t-14 hull. Pretty simple and boxy, more or less. That part reminds me of the way a glock looks; it's no more or less than it needs to be. The turret shape is more of a puzzle. I too am intrigued by its asymmetric shape. Looks good though, I think, and pretty bad ass!

    I agree, too, that the T-15 IFV is the most eye-catching and futuristic-looking of all the vehicles. In that one video, the group of them look like a menacing herd of giant alien beetles trundling up the street.

    It's going to be interesting to see which are the right guesses about what functions various gaps and openings in the T-14 turret fulfill.

    I suppose the only thing that I'm really not liking about what we've seen is the fact that none of these vehicles will be serial produced in appreciable quantity for quite some time yet. They'll be "testing" and then "field testing" for what seems an eternity. I'm pretty sure we're talking 4-5 years to go yet. *SIGH*

    If anyone is disappointed with anything they're seeing now, who knows, the actual finished product may end up quite different when all is said and done. So cheer up, emo kid! cheers

    Actually I'm impressed, because it looks really like the Russian MIC has finally delivered something ground breaking. Yes the concept had been floating both in East and West about a modular platform and unmanned turret, but this is the first time we see one fielded. So if it really is a workable doctrine, expect upgunning and uparmmouring from the usual suspects. At some point we'll see 100 ton NATO behemoths.

    If that happens, they will have one difficult time having those behemoths even moving around even in Ukraine if need be.
    Werewolf
    Werewolf

    Posts : 5251
    Points : 5454
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Werewolf on Tue May 05, 2015 6:17 am

    collegeboy16 wrote:turret protection is fine as is - you can pierce it with sabots all day but all you will get at most is a firepower kill when you hit the gun itself, its mounting, or shot out both optics. and all three targets are highly unlikely to be hit in a fight, esp. in a tank duel with distance bet. a km or two or so.


    That is the problem here. You can't armor the hull to withstand everything but leave the turret unarmored. Tanks have duties to fullfil and that are tactical and operational level duties which a firepower killed vehicle can not accomplish, meaning the turret needs armor and easiest and best way to armor something with weight saving is ERA/NERA tiles.

    It needs armor and i am certain it will get it.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7091
    Points : 7359
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 30
    Location : Canada

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  sepheronx on Tue May 05, 2015 6:19 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    collegeboy16 wrote:turret protection is fine as is - you can pierce it with sabots all day but all you will get at most is a firepower kill when you hit the gun itself, its mounting, or shot out both optics. and all three targets are highly unlikely to be hit in a fight, esp. in a tank duel with distance bet. a km or two or so.


    That is the problem here. You can't armor the hull to withstand everything but leave the turret unarmored. Tanks have duties to fullfil and that are tactical and operational level duties which a firepower killed vehicle can not accomplish, meaning the turret needs armor and easiest and best way to armor something with weight saving is ERA/NERA tiles.

    It needs armor and i am certain it will get it.

    Of course it will. Look at all previous tanks in Soviet/russian inventory. Prior to ERA, they usually had none, and then they did within a year or two.

    Sponsored content

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2 - Page 26 Empty Re: [Official] Armata Discussion thread #2

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:50 pm