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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:54 am

    The Russians do...

    The TOR was designed as a point defence system that operates with tank forces... so protecting armoured forces... well actually protecting air defence units from ARMs and Mavericks and Hellfires... it would not operate right up with the tanks, but its protective umbrella would be a circle 24km across, so it covers quite an area... it is a very capable system.

    It is also used at sea as a CIWS too... under the name Klintok.


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    Mindstorm

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:59 am

    Vann7 wrote:46 intercepted by Syrian soviet+pantsir air defenses
    37 missiles exploded in the sand somewhere else and went of course.. possibly because EW..
    and all the attacks on heavily defended military airports failed.. either through interception or EW..


    Vann you have misunderstood the declaration Wink

    The numbers refere exclusively to the interceptions conducted in the capital Damascus air defense Sector (including also the airfields of Dumali ,Dumayr, Beit Saham and Mezzeh )

    We know that the interceptions for those military airfields was respectively :


    Dumali 4 on 4 missiles

    Dumayr 12 on 12 missiles

    Beit 18 on 18 missiles

    Mezzeh 5 on 9 missiles


    for a total of 39 missiles destroyed for military installations (at defence of which was placed purposely for the attack the few most advanced SAM batteries usually changing position at cyclical rate in the pertinent area ).

    At those 39 is necessary to add the interceptions completed in the "civil" air space of the Syrian capital, where an initial assesments had credited 5 interceptions, while now data crossing and actual collection of parts have evidently increased that number to 7 succexful interceptions Wink








    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:18 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Interesting article and comments with current US view on EW in Syria. That is they don't like it and they are not seeing the full version.

    The Compass Call is supposed to be one of America’s foremost electronic warfare weapons, but the EC-130s flying near Syria are being attacked and disabled “in the most aggressive EW environment on the planet,” the head of Special Operations Command said here today.

    “Right now in Syria we are operating in the most aggressive EW environment on the planet from our adversaries. They are testing us everyday, knocking our communications down, disabling our EC-130s, etcetera,” Gen. Raymond Thomas told an audience of some 2,000 intelligence professionals.


    https://breakingdefense.com/2018/04/russia-widens-ew-war-disabling-ec-130s-in-syria/

    In find that report interesting.. is now being reported in RT.com .. so is a legit report by US military.
    What is interesting is that NATO commander breedlove was saying in a major report ,in 2015-2016 ,that
    was for NATO military allies to know.. about the investigations of their military on Russia army and Pro Russian rebels ,armed by Russia. about their military tactics in eastern ukraine... the very aggressive Electronic warfare use by Russia military against Ukraine ATO military.. that was blocking their communications completely.. he even though was surprised since is the first time they see such level of advance EW in a battle field.. But he told that US military have much more powerful communications ,that are not analog like the ukraine ones.. but fully digital and resistant to
    Electronic warfare and encrypted.. he basically was saying , that NATO have nothing to worry ,because their Communications are much better than the Ukrainian ones , and so made it look that Russia can't interfere with their most advanced communications... anyone remember this report? it was report of NATO general.. i think it was breedlove explaining in detail how Russia EW works ,how they use drones and artillery etc.. then he even though was
    surprised by Russia investment on Electronic Warfare.. and that was effective.. he made it look ,that they also have
    EW too. .and that their are immune to Russia hacking..

    Well... fast forward in time.. we have now a major High ranked military of US special forces of US ,explaining
    in a conference.. how Russia disable all their communications ,including no less than their state of the art spy plane.
    and blocking any kind of intelligence gather by US airforce and US special forces and advanced drones
    in Syria... lol1

    So if this report is correct.. This should be very bad news of NATO... because if their best communications are jammed
    in Syria ,including their AWACS and their drones in Syria... then this will be a real disaster for NATO ,if the fight was against Russia. Cool because they will be unable to coordinate anything with the people in the front line about were to go ,when to fight ,where Russian positions are located.. etc that means NATO forces will be blind ,in a war with Russia and will not have close air support and neither be updated over Russian positions. if Russia is jamming their communications.. Predator drones will neither flight and GPS weapons neither work well over long distances. Smile


    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:27 am

    Mindstorm wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:46 intercepted by Syrian soviet+pantsir air defenses
    37 missiles exploded in the sand somewhere else and went of course.. possibly because EW..
    and all the attacks on heavily defended military airports failed.. either through interception or EW..


    Vann you have misunderstood the declaration  Wink

    The numbers refere exclusively to the interceptions conducted in the capital Damascus air defense Sector (including also the airfields of Dumali ,Dumayr, Beit Saham and Mezzeh )

    We know that the interceptions for those military airfields was respectively :


    Dumali     4 on   4    missiles

    Dumayr  12 on 12    missiles

    Beit       18  on 18    missiles

    Mezzeh    5  on  9    missiles


    for a total of 39 missiles destroyed for military installations (at defence of which was placed purposely for the attack the few most advanced SAM batteries usually changing position at cyclical rate in the pertinent area ).

    At those 39 is necessary to add the interceptions completed in the "civil" air space of the Syrian capital, where an initial assesments had credited 5 interceptions, while now data crossing and actual collection of parts have evidently increased that number to 7 succexful interceptions  Wink

     


    you have to remember that missiles go off course and heading to crash in sand ,don't need to be intercepted..
    So if in Mezzeh    5  on  9    missiles intercepted .. the other 4 or 3 or 2, could be that crashed in the sand much earlier...before reaching the base.. So 5 of 9 could still be perfect score 100% interception if the other Missiles not intercepted were jammed before reaching the base.  

    So you need to add the Intercepted ones + missiles that don't exploded +missiles that lost their path
    and went elsewhere.

    Russia military told only ~22 missiles reached their targets.. from 105.. and this is what really matters.
    So where are the others missiles ? The others are Intercepted or went off course by the GPS jamming or
    crashed in the sand or were defective and did not exploded.. like one missiles that Syria army captured in
    good conditions.. possible damaged by Russia EW/EMP attack.  

    If it is true that only ~22 missiles hit their intended targets ,from 105.. then that will be near ~20% of
    efficiency.. from 105 missiles fired.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:51 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    So if this report is correct.. This should be very bad news of NATO... because if their best communications are jammed
    in Syria ,including their AWACS and their drones in Syria... then this will be a real disaster for NATO ,if the fight was against Russia. Cool  because they will be unable to coordinate anything with the people in the front line about were to go ,when to fight ,where Russian positions are located.. etc that means NATO forces will be blind ,in a war with Russia and will not have close air support and neither be updated over Russian positions. if Russia is jamming their communications..  Predator drones will neither flight and GPS weapons neither work well over long distances.  Smile

    In addition many NATO planes are short range and tanker dependent, this is not an issue when they have air superiority and little if any air defence to worry about but they now know just how bad a modern peer to peer conflict will be. Any tankers and AWACS that might still be flying, those not already destroyed or still have runways, will have to be so far back as to be useless. Nothing like the use of the infrastructure that they have carefully developed over the past 30 years that they are used to. Many aircraft, like the F-35, may not even be able to make it back to base due to lack of fuel, the concept of refuelling in theatre has gone.

    This should be causing a huge rethink in the West. Every program should be halted and revaluated against this paradigm. The Red Flag exercises in Nevada should have refuelling over somewhere like Alaska or Florida.

    They won't of course, too many vested interests plus they know that there will not be a peer to peer conflict where any of this really matters as life on Earth will be over.
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    Isos

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Isos on Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:04 pm

    They won't of course, too many vested interests plus they know that there will not be a peer to peer conflict where any of this really matters as life on Earth will be over.

    No conflict against Russia because they will need to invade each other which no one wants.

    But naval and aerial fight could happen in the Pacific against China without going to a full war. There, the inflight refueling is more important because pacific is huge and bases far away from the disputed islands so China will look at this report very carefully.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:37 pm

    Chapter and verse on what the Russians found. Loads of info.

    https://southfront.org/trumps-smart-missiles-in-syria-summing-up-evidence-and-numbers-provided-by-russia/
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  JohninMK on Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:42 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Interesting article and comments with current US view on EW in Syria. That is they don't like it and they are not seeing the full version.

    The Compass Call is supposed to be one of America’s foremost electronic warfare weapons, but the EC-130s flying near Syria are being attacked and disabled “in the most aggressive EW environment on the planet,” the head of Special Operations Command said here today.

    “Right now in Syria we are operating in the most aggressive EW environment on the planet from our adversaries. They are testing us everyday, knocking our communications down, disabling our EC-130s, etcetera,” Gen. Raymond Thomas told an audience of some 2,000 intelligence professionals.


    https://breakingdefense.com/2018/04/russia-widens-ew-war-disabling-ec-130s-in-syria/

    A lot more on this.

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20404/american-general-says-adversaries-are-jamming-ac-130-gunships-in-syria
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:13 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Photo report from Hmeim Airbase:
    https://ecoross1.livejournal.com/716218.html
    MoD suddenly invited lots of bloggers on tour, we should be seeing plenty of fresh photos soon methinks

    So they have TOR's backing up the Pantsir's Smile


    I am not surprised at all. Whatever it is that Russian Military has access to they definitely deployed it there.

    Entire production catalogue is probably parked in Hmeim AB.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:42 pm

    Perfect opportunity to test what they can.
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    Skandalwitwe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Skandalwitwe on Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:58 pm

    GarryB wrote:It is also used at sea as a CIWS too... under the name Klintok.

    Navalized Tor is known as 'Kinzhal' (not to be confused with the eponymous brand-new hypersonic anti-ship missile). 'Klinok' is the export version.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:03 pm

    I don't think US,France  will ever leave Syria... and for the following reasons...

    1)They have nothing to lose ,and too many things to win...
      Nobody cares in US about US illegal war there as long no consequences for Americans troops.
      The same is for france.
    2) Syria is the world best place , in an unique time in history ,that NATO have to spy and analyze
       Russian weapons. For example the Pentagon will have never know about Russia Electronic warfare
       powerful capabilities.. had it wasn't for Ukraine and Syria conflicts that they created... So NATO
       can now develop a weapon..a new missile ,a new electronic warfare technology . use it in Syria
       and test it against Russia air defenses.. or Russia airforce. or Russia communications. To see if they
        can jam Russia communications. NATO also have an unique opportunity to learn how to counter S-400s
        and S-300s that is the backbone of RUssia air defenses.. So expect to see in the near future ballistic
         missiles used... using conventional weapons.. to force Russia use their S-400s.. So NATO can learn
        invaluable information about Russia military and its tactics.. for totally redesign their military tactics
        and create new technology to counter Russia military capabilities.
    3) No negative consequences for them... they don't lose soldiers and pilots and even have a deconfliction line
       with Russia.. So is like a deal.. NATO don't overthrow Assad and in chance Russia teach NATO how to improve
        their offensive capabilities against Russia.   No
    4) US and France also before leaving , is important that they create strong propaganda ,that makes them look like they were truly fighting terrorism in Syria contrary to what Russia Military was saying for long.. of US UK and France
    alliance with ISIS and Alqaeda in Syria.. So major PR propaganda will be done with NATO "Defeating ISIS" and other terrorist ,so to create a smoke screen , that confuse people about whether or not Russia claims of NATO alliance with terrorist was true or not.

      When i say never.. it means never.. Regardless of who is in power in Syria .. NATO have an invaluable place in
    the world ,where they can test their weapons .. This could save them a ton of of money.. if for example  they find any
    of their cruise missiles are useless..against Russia air defenses, then they will know they can't manufacture more of them..and will have to go to the drawing board again..and produce something else..

    At the same time ,Russia also learns from NATO... so both benefits from learning how to better fight the other.
    In the short term ,this will benefits more Russia than NATO.. since NATO is mostly used outdated missiles ..But once
    NATO start producing Fast missiles then everything will change..  Don't be surprised if NATO use ballistic missiles  
    with multi entry conventional warheads. to try to test S-400s capabilities.

    SO expect more chemical weapons BULLSHIT accusations/or barrel bombs in hospitals, against Syria ,that NATO will claim Assad did in order to justify more attacks.. and so they test their weapons.

    What Russia needs to do .to stop this dangerous games... is gradually incite Kurd rebellion ,a free kurds army.. that fight against Kurdish authorities and against NATO presence in Syria.. and start major armed insurgency attacks on US,france bases illegally there in Syria. If Russia just stay there in Syria , defensively only.. taking hits from NATO
    and not fighting back in some way ,directly or indirectly ,so to make it very expensive their illegal adventures in Syria
    then Russia will only be encouraging NATO to never leave Syria and also help NATO to understand Russia military
    capabilities and limits.

    So Russia will need to start preparing to respond NATO with their own tactics.. using proxy warfare ,and provide
    weapons to kurds friendly to Russia.. to defend their sovereignty and push NATO away from Syria.. also this can be combined with major peaceful anti NATO protest.. so the world see.. and increase the public opinion pressure against US and France to abandon Syria.

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    Regular

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Regular on Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:20 pm

    kvs wrote:The Russian Ministry of Defense must be following this board.

    Laughing
    Oh yes, they do! Some of us were moaning about hesco barriers not being used.. Boom, they've used all command points and build a superfob pirat
    Seriously, my heart is filled with joy to see Russian military performing so well.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:27 am

    Wow.. the story of Russia jamming US military operations in Syria ,including disabling their most advanced
    spy planes like EC-130.. in spreading like wildfire on the internet..  Laughing

    even bussinness insider is now with the story.

    https://www.businessinsider.sg/syria-electronic-warfare-us-planes-disabled-2018-4/

    in more news.. a video that shows the Cruise missiles that either were intercepted
    or crashed in the ground before reaching their target..




    For the people that were requesting Evidence .. that Russia intercepted missiles from NATO. Cool
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    George1

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:24 pm

    Could be another fresh(?) image from Khmeimim,#Syria. 4x S-400 TELs in the middleground. Il-20M (L) & Il-20 (R) ELINT aircraft behind the GNT-1/2 gabions. 2x A-50Us AEW in the background- 41 Red RF-94268 Taganrog & 37 Red RF-93966 Sergey w/ An-30/26/72 behind them respectively.



    https://twitter.com/Russian_Defence/status/989889313969180673



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    George1

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #12

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:37 pm

    Aircraft in shelters on Khmeimim

















    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3176297.html


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